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Mass shooting at Old National Bank in Downtown Louisville

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And as I feared I knew Jim Tutt 64 years old bank officer, I have closed several large transactions with him. He was highly regarded in the banking industry in Louisville. Just unbelievable.
Wait..did Jim get his MBA at UK?? If it’s the same Jim Tutt I’m thinking of, I think he worked for First Security or something in downtown Lexington around 1990. He was about 10 yrs my senior, but he was doing night classes at UK at the time.

Absolutely nice guy.
 
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I'm inclined to agree with you on this issue. However, this graphic is incredibly misleading. Our murder rate is 4x more than England's. 5x + more than most of western Europe.
The homicide data came from a UN report
 
They didn't stop anything, they just changed the means by which the death occurs.
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Not true. Grouping every country with a homicide rate of less than 5 per 100,000 doesn't tell an accurate story at all. Our homicide rate is 10 times higher than some comparable first world countries. Countries with a lower homicide rate than us:

Kenya

Angola

Lithuania

Niger

Chile

Latvia

Turkmenistan

Moldova

Timor Leste

Marshall Islands

Pakistan

Solomon Islands

Mozambique

Cook Islands

Liberia

Sao Tome And Principe

New Caledonia

Samoa

India

Tunisia

Gibraltar

Mauritius

Martinique

Liechtenstein

Turkey

Thailand

Rwanda

Egypt

Guam

Iran

Lebanon

Hungary

Sri Lanka

Belarus

Bangladesh

Fiji

Nepal

Albania

Myanmar

Montenegro

Georgia

Azerbaijan

Kyrgyzstan

Malaysia

Estonia

Ghana

Aruba

Cambodia

Kuwait

Reunion

Malawi

Canada

Sierra Leone

Armenia

Belgium

Tajikistan

Finland

Malta

Vietnam

Israel

Morocco

Cameroon

Algeria

Jordan

Bulgaria

Romania

Saudi Arabia

Cyprus

Burkina Faso

Serbia

United Kingdom

North Macedonia

France

Bhutan

Bosnia And Herzegovina

Guinea Bissau

Slovakia

Uzbekistan

Benin

Sweden

Denmark

Tonga

Austria

Germany

Greece

Australia

Iceland

Syria

Ireland

Taiwan

Portugal

New Zealand

Poland

Maldives

Hong Kong

Spain

South Korea

Switzerland

Netherlands

Croatia

Italy

China

Bahrain

Brunei

Palestine

Slovenia

Norway

United Arab Emirates

Indonesia

French Polynesia

Qatar

Luxembourg

Oman

Senegal

Japan

Singapore

Isle Of Man

Andorra

Monaco

San Marino
 
Not true. Grouping every country with a homicide rate of less than 5 per 100,000 doesn't tell an accurate story at all. Our homicide rate is 10 times higher than some comparable first world countries. Countries with a lower homicide rate than us:

Kenya

Angola

Lithuania

Niger

Chile

Latvia

Turkmenistan

Moldova

Timor Leste

Marshall Islands

Pakistan

Solomon Islands

Mozambique

Cook Islands

Liberia

Sao Tome And Principe

New Caledonia

Samoa

India

Tunisia

Gibraltar

Mauritius

Martinique

Liechtenstein

Turkey

Thailand

Rwanda

Egypt

Guam

Iran

Lebanon

Hungary

Sri Lanka

Belarus

Bangladesh

Fiji

Nepal

Albania

Myanmar

Montenegro

Georgia

Azerbaijan

Kyrgyzstan

Malaysia

Estonia

Ghana

Aruba

Cambodia

Kuwait

Reunion

Malawi

Canada

Sierra Leone

Armenia

Belgium

Tajikistan

Finland

Malta

Vietnam

Israel

Morocco

Cameroon

Algeria

Jordan

Bulgaria

Romania

Saudi Arabia

Cyprus

Burkina Faso

Serbia

United Kingdom

North Macedonia

France

Bhutan

Bosnia And Herzegovina

Guinea Bissau

Slovakia

Uzbekistan

Benin

Sweden

Denmark

Tonga

Austria

Germany

Greece

Australia

Iceland

Syria

Ireland

Taiwan

Portugal

New Zealand

Poland

Maldives

Hong Kong

Spain

South Korea

Switzerland

Netherlands

Croatia

Italy

China

Bahrain

Brunei

Palestine

Slovenia

Norway

United Arab Emirates

Indonesia

French Polynesia

Qatar

Luxembourg

Oman

Senegal

Japan

Singapore

Isle Of Man

Andorra

Monaco

San Marino
That is a homicide rate of .005%

We're talking about a tremendously small number. And if you think k countries like Sierra Leone have a lower homicide rate, then you are believing what you want. The numbers in that graph came from the UN, they have no reason to lie about it.

The global average for intentional homicide is 7.6 per 100k
 
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I park right by the stadium and walk right by that bank every time I need to shop in downtown. Last time I went to Duluth Trading Company I walked right through that parking lot on my way up there from where I always park.

I hope we never get to the point we take for granted how brave these police officers are to show up and rush a gunman like they've been doing in these last two instances now. That is bravery in its highest expression and they deserve to be honored as such. Think about as part of your job you put seeing your wife and kids on the line like that? Without hesitation. Just incredible what they're doing for us.
Well said.

Also, I've been highly critical of Governor Beshear over his handling of COVID. I want to say this -- he represents the Commonwealth with absolute class during our darkest moments. He was fantastic in the response to the various natural disasters and now this.

Lexington and Louisville may fight like brothers but that's because we are family. It is a dark day for Kentucky.

Politics can wait.
 
The homicide data came from a UN report
I'm not saying it's not an accurate chart. I'm saying the way it is presented is misleading. Acting as if we have the same rate as western Europe is incredibly misleading.
 
.003% vs .005% is splitting hairs. There is nothing misleading about it.

Agree to disagree. Being 4 or 5 times more likely to be murdered isn't splitting hairs.

Every measure says that Western Europe is safer than the United states. Empirical, statistical, pro-rata, etc...

I don't think we should just willy nily adopt a Western Europe way of life in order to lower the murder rate. but not acknowledging that you are far more likely to be murdered in the USA than in western Europe is ignoring reality.
 
A country where half the people celebrate and encourage mental illness while promoting a divisive, enraged victim mentality and the destruction of traditional values wonders why their new society has an increase in violence.

But ignore the reality. We need to insist that the government pushing this chaos and insanity strip away our constitutional rights and control everything. Which is the ultimate goal.
 
I don't agree to disagree. That is one of the most ignorant statements in the English language IMO. You can if you want.

Either way, I'm not sweating it out over a .005% chance at something bad happening.
 
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Not that anyone asked and it feels weird to be sharing these thoughts when the sun hasn’t even gone down yet, but I live in a country with quite strict gun control.

I have no issue with responsible legal gun owners. I have lots of friends who own guns. I like shooting them with them. They’re not the problem.

I have been treated for mental illness in the past and I have zero urge to kill anyone. I’m not the problem.

I’ve been a victim of gun violence. Robbed at gunpoint because two dudes saw an opportunity. Little did they know I was poor and had about $20 to my name.

I know one of the teachers who was killed trying to protect their students in Parkland. Very close friend of a close friend. So shootings like this hit close to home.

There’s no easy solution for any of this. Having over 300 million guns on the streets and limited prison and law enforcement resourced, access to healthcare, a widening poverty gap, and a fractured society has made for a perfect storm with social media being the perfect amplifier.

In my non expert opinion, the challenges that need to be addressed are anger, divisiveness, and ease of access.

You used to be able to disagree with people and respect their right to feel differently.

For me, If you like guns, awesome. If you like god, awesome.

If you like people who are the same sex as you, awesome. I’m not into it but you do you and show me the same respect to me.

Your enemy has gone from the person on the other side of the world wishing harm upon you to the person down the street who thinks differently than you do.

We live in and have survived some incredibly ****ed up times, whose effects will be felt for decades. People are more fed up and on edge and done than they’ve ever been, and it couldn’t be more easier to get your hands on legal things that cause mass casualties in a split second.

Up here, we are getting a lot more shootings and it’s because I am 45 minutes from the Michigan border where you can buy a gun for cash at a swap meet. Getting a gun up here legally is really ****ing hard. Crossing the border with some cash to hit up Olive Garden and the Sunday flea market is way ****ing easier. And our border patrol is a spectacle and many people have found it super easy to slip easily bought guns over.

I knew this idiot quite well. He got away with it many times, until he didn’t. He’s now missing the rest of the childhood of his two boys up here because he decided that $200 a pop was worth it, 67 times. Until he got caught. The guns he smuggled over turned up in a lot of shootings up here.



There’s no easy answer to undo the circumstances that got us here. I think finding a way to get along more often and find common ground more often and respect each others humanity and right to feel differently will help, instead of imposing will by force.


The only thing I hope is that we can find a way to go back to mutual respect, benefit of the doubt, and respecting our differences as opposed to trying to annihilate our “enemies”.

Making it harder to be free isn’t the answer. Imposing your will isn’t the answer. Going back to our roots will make a difference, but we clearly won’t be getting there anytime soon at this rate.
 
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Shooter was only 23. I remember being 23. Everything seemed like such a bigger deal than it was.

Per the NY Post, he had so many concussions as a high school athlete that he had to play basketball in a helmet. Doesn't excuse a damn thing but is a pretty weird fact. Kind of reminiscent of Aaron Hernandez.

 
Was told that the shooter's grandfather Is a senior exac at that bank and that he had gone AWOL from his job for 2 weeks until he showed up unannounced this morning at the loan committee meeting with a long rifle, was not a handgun
 
Wait..did Jim get his MBA at UK?? If it’s the same Jim Tutt I’m thinking of, I think he worked for First Security or something in downtown Lexington around 1990. He was about 10 yrs my senior, but he was doing night classes at UK at the time.

Absolutely nice guy.

I do not know. But he was a class act
 
Shooter was only 23. I remember being 23. Everything seemed like such a bigger deal than it was.

Per the NY Post, he had so many concussions as a high school athlete that he had to play basketball in a helmet. Doesn't excuse a damn thing but is a pretty weird fact. Kind of reminiscent of Aaron Hernandez.

The article leaves out the fact that he was "woke". While this may or may not be relevant, it's unlikely that this omission occurs if the person was on the far end of the other political side.
 
When these things happen, it might be nice if we had two threads. One that responds to the tragedy and one that gets into the political angles. It’s one thing for this discussion to take place about a shooting in another part of the country, but some of us know the families of the victims. The political banter hours after the shooting just does not matter.
 
Who gives a shit? How many 23 year olds aren't "woke"?
Any time there is an act of this nature, committed by a "true believer" from either side of the spectrum, all potential motives should be examined. As a matter of fact, there are some alleged Instagram posts which may be relevant as to motive.
 
The article leaves out the fact that he was "woke". While this may or may not be relevant, it's unlikely that this omission occurs if the person was on the far end of the other political side.

Shooting hits home pretty hard. Have friends pretty shaken up. Families are destroyed. I’m not taking your bait here, but will never read another post from you.
 
When these things happen, it might be nice if we had two threads. One that responds to the tragedy and one that gets into the political angles. It’s one thing for this discussion to take place about a shooting in another part of the country, but some of us know the families of the victims. The political banter hours after the shooting just does not matter.
The political debate ia going to happen. Always does. The left blames the right. The right blames the left. Nothing changes.

It’s not mental health or gun control. It’s mental health and gun control. And stating that in an Internet forum means nothing because I don’t see anything ever changing regardless of who is right or wrong. Maybe it’s just an accepted risk of living in America, like hurricanes, tornadoes and floods. Seems nihilistic but think that’s close to the reality for everyday Americans
 
A country where half the people celebrate and encourage mental illness while promoting a divisive, enraged victim mentality and the destruction of traditional values wonders why their new society has an increase in violence.

But ignore the reality. We need to insist that the government pushing this chaos and insanity strip away our constitutional rights and control everything. Which is the ultimate goal.
You post a variation of this in every mass shooting thread. I know you're trying to be cute and vague while at the same time babbling about your rights being taken away and some bullshit about control. What I do know is there are people who post here daily who are actually, personally affected by what took place this morning. Think about that before doing your shtick.

The article leaves out the fact that he was "woke". While this may or may not be relevant, it's unlikely that this omission occurs if the person was on the far end of the other political side.
Same can be said for you. What happened today actually hit home for some here. Keep the drive-by agenda shit about wokeness in the political thread. I ignored Bill Cosby's trolling this morning but this isn't what this thread should be about. Pretending you're soulless during a tragedy doesn't make you internet cool.

When these things happen, it might be nice if we had two threads. One that responds to the tragedy and one that gets into the political angles. It’s one thing for this discussion to take place about a shooting in another part of the country, but some of us know the families of the victims. The political banter hours after the shooting just does not matter.
Thing is, we do. The political thread is for the "my team" stuff where they can immediately blame whoever they want without knowing one fact. I do think in these ongoing mass shooting threads we can be adults who show sympathy but also discuss possible political or human solutions. I hope anyway.
 
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Why do you post dumb shit like this? You know damn well that there was something attached to that bill that many objected to.

You posting that is the equivalent of us posting a similar vote on a gun reform bill that also included making abortions illegal. "Why didn't the Dumocrats vote for it?"
Why does the pub hypocrisy always escape you guys?

Complaining then doing nothing is never a strategy or a solution. Hold them accountable or replace them.
 
I don't agree to disagree. That is one of the most ignorant statements in the English language IMO. You can if you want.

Either way, I'm not sweating it out over a .005% chance at something bad happening.
So you don’t think we have a problem? If that’s the case, it makes sense.

No worries.
 
So you don’t think we have a problem? If that’s the case, it makes sense.

No worries.
There is definitely a problem.

But the difference in .005% and .002% is so insignificant its not worth discussing. You're splitting hairs over a graph, not discussing any actual issues.
 
Has anybody seen any proposals for how to deal with the mental health issues that cause these shootings from any politician? I’m at a point where I’m pretty sure they don’t give a shit about anything but maintaining their own power. Both sides. They never propose viable solutions. Let’s kick their asses to the curb.
 
.003% vs .005% is splitting hairs. There is nothing misleading about it.
It's not splitting hairs, it's almost twice as much.

US murder rate is 4.96/100,000 people. That is awful when compared to Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. These are all UN figures as well.

UK: 1.20, the US is 400% higher
Spain: 0.62, the US is 800% higher
Italy: 0.57, the US is 870% higher
Germany: 0.95, the US is 522% higher
France: 1.20, the US is 400% higher
Netherlands: 0.59, the US is 840% higher
Denmark: 1.01, the US is 491% higher
Norway: 0.47, the US is 1,055% higher
Canada: 1.76, the US is 281% higher
Australia: 0.89, the US is 557% higher
New Zealand: 0.74, the US is 670% higher

I don't know about you, but the so called greatest country in the world should have murder rates that fit in with other first world countries. We shouldn't be proud we compare favorably to the likes of Kenya, Sudan, and Kazakstan.
 
It's not splitting hairs, it's almost twice as much.

US murder rate is 4.96/100,000 people. That is awful when compared to Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. These are all UN figures as well.

UK: 1.20, the US is 400% higher
Spain: 0.62, the US is 800% higher
Italy: 0.57, the US is 870% higher
Germany: 0.95, the US is 522% higher
France: 1.20, the US is 400% higher
Netherlands: 0.59, the US is 840% higher
Denmark: 1.01, the US is 491% higher
Norway: 0.47, the US is 1,055% higher
Canada: 1.76, the US is 281% higher
Australia: 0.89, the US is 557% higher
New Zealand: 0.74, the US is 670% higher

I don't know about you, but the so called greatest country in the world should have murder rates that fit in with other first world countries. We shouldn't be proud we compare favorably to the likes of Kenya, Sudan, and Kazakstan.
Are you suggesting the United States become...Whiter? It certainly seems that you are when you compare US stats to very much whiter nations.
 
It's not splitting hairs, it's almost twice as much.

US murder rate is 4.96/100,000 people. That is awful when compared to Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. These are all UN figures as well.

UK: 1.20, the US is 400% higher
Spain: 0.62, the US is 800% higher
Italy: 0.57, the US is 870% higher
Germany: 0.95, the US is 522% higher
France: 1.20, the US is 400% higher
Netherlands: 0.59, the US is 840% higher
Denmark: 1.01, the US is 491% higher
Norway: 0.47, the US is 1,055% higher
Canada: 1.76, the US is 281% higher
Australia: 0.89, the US is 557% higher
New Zealand: 0.74, the US is 670% higher

I don't know about you, but the so called greatest country in the world should have murder rates that fit in with other first world countries. We shouldn't be proud we compare favorably to the likes of Kenya, Sudan, and Kazakstan.
The difference is statistically zero, we are all on the flat part of the bell curve. When you're talking the difference 2 per 100,000 and 5 per 100,000 you're splitting hairs. Either way, the .0003% difference in the US and Europe is nothing more than a tangent.

Percentages of a percentage are only used to manipulate, so I'm not going to debate your math.

Sorry, I had to take too many statistics classes in college to buy what you're trying to sell.
 
The difference is statistically zero, we are all on the flat part of the bell curve. When you're talking the difference 2 per 100,000 and 5 per 100,000 you're splitting hairs. Either way, the .0003% difference in the US and Europe is nothing more than a tangent.

Percentages of a percentage are only used to manipulate, so I'm not going to debate your math.

Sorry, I had to take too many statistics classes in college to buy what you're trying to sell.
Your math is simply incorrect. The US isn't even in the center of the bell curve of murder rate, let alone on the flat part. There are 120 countries with a murder rate lower than ours and 75 with murder rates higher than ours.

If we had the murder rate of the UK we'd have around 14,000 fewer murders each year. That isn't just splitting hairs.
 
Your math is simply incorrect. The US isn't even in the center of the bell curve of murder rate, let alone on the flat part. There are 120 countries with a murder rate lower than ours and 75 with murder rates higher than ours.

If we had the murder rate of the UK we'd have around 14,000 fewer murders each year. That isn't just splitting hairs.
Is your problem the murders, or the murders in relation to the the UK?
 
Yeah, no shit. That's why murder rates are adjusted per capita. We're not comparing raw murders here, we're comparing murders per 100,000 people.
14,000 out of 300,000,000 is the equivalent of picking a few grains of sugar out of the 5lb bag.

You keep arguing about the difference between us and the UK. I fail to see how that has any significance in the discussion of this thread.
 
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Your math is simply incorrect. The US isn't even in the center of the bell curve of murder rate, let alone on the flat part. There are 120 countries with a murder rate lower than ours and 75 with murder rates higher than ours.

If we had the murder rate of the UK we'd have around 14,000 fewer murders each year. That isn't just splitting hairs.
Got news for you - your stats are wrong also.

The numbers you are drawing from are a combination of murders and non negligent manslaughter(still results in a death but not murder). Total homicides according the the FBI which is the resultant death rate you are trying to attribute to murders.

For example - the amount of homicides in 2019 was around 17000 but the actual number of murders was 6578. It would be statistically impossible to have 14K fewer murders.
 
There is definitely a problem.

But the difference in .005% and .002% is so insignificant its not worth discussing. You're splitting hairs over a graph, not discussing any actual issues.

I’m sorry, but anybody with understanding of #’s knows that a difference of 4x is a huge difference. You’re focusing on the rate, not on the difference.

If you acknowledge that there is a problem then you must acknowledge that having a 4x better chance of facing that problem is a significant difference
 
I’m sorry, but anybody with understanding of #’s knows that a difference of 4x is a huge difference. You’re focusing on the rate, not on the difference.

If you acknowledge that there is a problem then you must acknowledge that having a 4x better chance of facing that problem is a significant difference
What is 4 times 0? Is it significant?

Now what is 4 times .005?

Your talking about miniscule numbers. And again, it's a tangent from the real discussion. You're arguing over a graphic.
 
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