Duh, but I think we already get that. The relevant conversation would concern murder rates. I don't know what Appalachia murder rates look like, but that would the point of comparison, not gross totals.
Lexington shootings
- Thread starter Bill - Shy Cat
- Start date
Means nothing if you blame everything on economics and education, which is exactly what people blame it on as evidenced in this thread.
Lets take your example of population density. There are countless large highrise condo buildings around the US with people crammed together. Theyre not shooting each other.
Having a law and enforcing the law are two different things which goes to the very crux of my point. Enforce the law and crime falls. Its that simple.
Yeah man, you’re talking nonsense. There are several high rise condos in Louisville where people aren’t shooting each other.
Clearly and undeniably there is a correlation between crime, poverty and education. Eastern Kentucky is no exception to this rule. You aren’t citing sources or data. And what you’re really trying to say is “it’s black people.” Just say that and own it.
And here’s the thing, murders are in fact committed by more black people than white people by ratio. Guess what? That means shit. You aren’t addressing root problems because you don’t understand them. Next you’ll probably make a played out argument about “black culture”.
I’ve worked with kids from the inner city. You don’t know anything. You really have no idea how bad it is, but want to simplify it to “vote for Republicans”. That’s because you really have no idea what you’re talking about.
A: we haven't executed anyone since 2008, so do we really have the death penalty?
B: the death penalty isn't to prevent future crimes; some acts and people are so evil that death is the only proper consequence.
Wel, I agree at least that the goal of the death penalty isn’t to prevent crimes because it’s shown zero ability to do so. But I’d like to know what punishment would prevent murder when states with the death penalty have a higher rate of murder than those that do not.
I didn't mention race at any time during this thread. In fact I think you're the first person in all these posts that did. Its lazy and pathetic.
Then all you did was restate my argument and say its wrong when i already defeated the point.
Why do so many let their views and positions lead them to the facts instead of vice versa? Is there some weird personal virtue signal involved? Or is it solely team politics?
I know it isnt. How many went to jail for the riots? I think 3 people. Unless you count the out of state militant group that came here to march and accidentally shot himself in the leg.
As i pointed out above, the guy who killed a young man near the center was already arrested and released twice for waiving a gun and threatening to kill people.
This is just such an easy point to debate because the facts are on the side of needing laws enforced. Facts defeat feelings.
“I ain’t mentioning race but how many were arrested in the race riots?”
And yes way more than 3 people were arrested in the riots. I’m genuinely not saying it to be mean, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
I didn't say race riots. I said riots. You interjected race which is lazy.
I didn't say got arrested. I said went to jail. They literally only prosecuted a handful of people despite thousands burning and looting out in the open with police given direct orders to not intervene.
Instead of deflecting, lying, and using ad hominems, id suggest you sit this out.
Apologies for being blunt and calling you out.. One of the two of us actually saw the riots firsthand. I have about 25 pictures I could post. I also personally know people whose shops and restaurants were ransacked.
It was literally a riot because the crowd was uncontrollable, but hundreds were also arrested. However, this entire topic is a distraction away from your initial point, which was that not being strict enough on crime is what leads to a higher murder rate.
Furthermore, the fact you're bringing up Breonna Taylor riots in a thread where you claim "being tough on crime" stops murder is more evidence you have no interest in actually understanding the issues. Again, Im not saying this to be mean, but you really don't understand. This topic is way deeper than "being tough on crime" or voting a certain way. None of that means anything.
And to reiterate, it's not about race, BLM or <insert your social agenda here>. Reality is that there is a huge underclass, which is real, and whose problems exist regardless of what bureaucrat in a suit is rolled out to lip sync with the public.
I saw them firsthand too. I was there multiple days a week wading through the nonsense that should've been stopped immediately. Neither the mayor nor the governor had the guts so we ended up with billions in economic devastation through riots and months of boarded up business and months more still of people afraid to go downtown.
By just lying and throwing spaghetti at the wall, you aren't engaging in any real discussion or debate. Enjoy screaming your virtue signalling buzzwords into the void.
Yeah, I don't believe you. and never once did I "virtue signal".
This is what you're missing. There are tens of thousands of kids in the city of Louisville (and it's similar all throughout the country), where a kid may not know where they are sleeping tonight or their mother lives with a drug dealer or their mother is on drugs or they live with grandma and grandma can't parent or they grow up surrounded by gang violence or their parents are non-existent and awful role models or they suffer from the side effects of a drug addicted pregnant mother or all they know is the streets. They did not choose this situation but it is their reality. All of this compounds the challenges with education, it eventually limits employment and typically the cycle repeats. That, my friend, is the sad reality.
This is not unlike the cycles of poverty in Eastern Kentucky or rural America. It is the same problem, and the United States has failed to solve this problem due to its complexity for generations.
No amount of blaming BLM, liberals or the criminal justice system changes this reality. It's like solving a 50,000-piece jigsaw puzzle with only square pieces. It's never going to work. There is not a single solution because there is not a single problem.
Being tough on crime does not change any of the above. Voting for a Republican or Democrat does not change any of the above. The people who are committing murder and violent acts do not factor most often do not factor punishment of their actions at all.
^^^there is only one group predominantly in favor for defunding the police, less police involvement overall, increasing the tea and crumpets approach to criminals, letting repeat offenders back on the streets, allowing our borders to be continuously overran, and a general soft on crime approach overall.
I shouldn't have to tell you this, as you seem like a smart chap, but you obviously have your head up your ass in regards to the common sense factor of law enforcement.
I shouldn't have to tell you this, as you seem like a smart chap, but you obviously have your head up your ass in regards to the common sense factor of law enforcement.
I mean, you can say there is one group predominantly in favor of defunding the police, but you'd be wrong. You can label this group as "left" (if we don't care about actually honoring political definitions), but the fact of the matter is that anarcho-libertarians have been in favor of defunding the public police force in favor of privatization for decades. Both of these more extremist factions have shared have a shared interest for decimation of the "state", but at it's core, elimination of publicly funded police force is actually a libertarian ideal.
Groups like the Boogaloo Boys (a right wing group whose stated intent is the destruction of the government state -- and who I took pictures of holding guns at the protests in Louisville) has way more in common with ardent communists and other radical groups on the left than they do to Democrats or Republicans.
Of course, this doesn't fit your played out left/right narrative coaxed by pundit media sources, but there isn't a single thing above that is incorrect.
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Idk. 20 minutes from me is rural and poor, and seemingly has no violence issues (although I'm sure it has its share of crime: drugs, dwi, domestic violence). It's just poor people living in trailers generally minding their own business. Someone did trip on their own meth-trap and decapitated themselves, kind of like in True Detective. But that's about it.
.. but 20 minutes the other direction is downtown Albany. And the crime is sprawling and out of control. Infinitely more gun problems, way more drug issues. More random acts of violence. Theft. Atvs running into people. Gang violence.
Now the hilltowns will always have less people than the cities, and less people means the population generally stays out of each other's way.
.. but I'm still safer there than downtown. And there still seems to be SOME morals left and common decency in the poor rural areas.
Ok, post the pics of this Boogaloo Boy you caught in the wild. Everyone needs to see this.
A couple of thoughts:
-we’ve had poverty in this country since it started. I may be wrong but I don’t believe that poor people are by nature more murderous. Were they killing each other like this during the Depression?
-regardless of the root causes, there is one certainty: violent people, and especially those who are repeat offenders, should be locked away. Trying to fix racial inequalities by being soft on crime is sheer lunacy.
Many libertarians have advocated for police reform (e.g., bodycams, no-knock raid ban, etc.), but not necessarily for "defunding" along the lines of what many on the left advocated. Also, remind me how many libertarians are in charge of large cities with crime problems? The overall number of "anarcho-libertarians" is vanishingly small in comparison to woke leftist idiots who have been elected across the country and who have their fingers pulling the strings of many other institutions (education, media, NGOs, etc.) Sorry, your argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny. So yes, in the present day, it is one group that has driven the "defund the police" narrative, and that's the left. Fortunately, the pendulum has begun to swing in the other direction.
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Race isn’t a factor. That’s the point. Assume all murderers are white. It doesn’t change the root causes of the problems.
Okay, a murderer is black. Still subject to same factors as all other humans. That’s the point.
There are different ranges of libertarians like everything else. Anarcho-capitalists, anarchists, minarchists all heavily favor to complete evaporation of a police state. By nature, it is an extreme take on small government. People can call themselves anything, but it is what it is.
And again, they hold basically no political power or institutional sway in the United States. So, thank you for agreeing with my post.
Why is this even relevant? Obviously they did have at least some influence as a handful of cities did bend to actually defund the police to varying degrees. What do you think that's proving?
Oh yeah, of course, many jurisdictions adopted "defund the police" policies in response to a mass influence campaign by radical anarcho-libertarians, rather than leftist idiots.
Is this what statistics and data say?
Hard conversation. Yet it has to be had. The knee jerk reactions that we saw to George Floyd included notions like defund the police, and that lesser sentences on non-white criminals would somehow achieve equity or fix racism.
Can we then ask: is it in cities that embraced these notions that we see the most increases in violent crime?
I’m all for getting to the root although I suspect we’d have contradictory opinions on how to fix the root. Nevertheless, the idea that we cannot lock up violent people because of racial taboo
is as insane as it sounds. If the people in my area are violent, I want them locked up. I don’t care if they’re white.
Yes, the homicide rate in the depression era was higher than today. Big graph is from wikipedia, citation is CDC. Article also cites this which shows similar data (and shows estimated homicide rate from colonial days): https://web.archive.org/web/2012042...ime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/
Which jurisdictions are these that supposedly adopted "defund the police" policies?Oh yeah, of course, many jurisdictions adopted "defund the police" policies in response to a mass influence campaign by radical anarcho-libertarians, rather than leftist idiots.
Yes, that's what statistics and data say. Nothing in statistics in data says that someone who is black has some inherent bias to commit violence. They may show disproportionate crimes according to race, but it's obviously pretty superficial stop such analysis at the color of someone's skin. I hope you cringed when you read that (you should've).
Oh yeah, of course, many jurisdictions adopted "defund the police" policies in response to a mass influence campaign by radical anarcho-libertarians, rather than leftist idiots.
Yeah, this is where this junior year of high school mentality of breaking everything into a left right paradigm falls down every time. The dissolution of the police state (advocation of limited government) is literally the antithesis of the aims of most leftists.
"Im a conservative! I just support the nationalization of industry and the common ownership of means of production!!! I hate liberals!!!"
The handful of cases Im aware of that practices in lieu of "defund the police" were actually cuts in budget (not dissolution) for city police forces. I believe Minneapolis may have cut budget and possibly Seattle, but pretty sure even there the cuts were limited to a single fiscal year and then restored to previous or higher levels. It's basically a dog whistle.
Lol, go look at the list of mass shootings this year. And then go one by one and tell me that african-americans aren't committing more violence than any other race.
Now the REAL distinction is that, yes, there is nothing inherently more violent about someone who is black, than someone white, hispanic, etc. Plenty of African tribes aren't killing each other the way Arbor Hill and Hamilton Hill are killing each other by me. But there IS a problem with where African-Americans are at this current time in the United States. The ghetto's are a mess, households are completely broken.. drug issues, homelessness, gangs, etc. There's a reason people, on BOTH political aisles, avoid these inner cities like the plague: because they ARE in fact dangerous and you ARE more likely to be the victim of a violent crime..
Yes, the homicide rate in the depression era was higher than today. Big graph is from wikipedia, citation is CDC. Article also cites this which shows similar data (and shows estimated homicide rate from colonial days): https://web.archive.org/web/2012042...ime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/
Wellllll.. I'd look more to the fact that 2000 to 2020 was lower than the great depression.. and COVID along with social unrest (race riots in the past summers) are what caused the spike. But I'd say we were looking pretty good compared to the Great Depression and many other eras.
It’s nothing compared to the left’s crusade into hero status of convicted felon and lifetime criminal George Floyd even to the point of riots, looting, protests, ect take your left pick of those and in the end there’s a statue of that thug on a park bench 🍺
You're right, absolutely no rioting, looting, protests in Trump's honor... How quickly January 6th is forgotten lol.
Fair enough.. pick one riot in one city on one day to cancel out the Jan 6th riot..
Now what are we left with? How many hundreds of more riots were there in inner cities now that Jan 6th isn't included? It was ONE riot from our side, compared to how many hundreds of others on yours?
I honestly think the left was thrilled to have Jan 6th happen, because it gave them an out when it came to the thousands of other riots that happened under their watch.
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A riot in a random town in response to a cop murdering a guy is not the same as a riot ON THE CAPITAL because Trump can’t admit that he lost.
Boy you put some spin on that. Two can play that game:
A "riot" on the capitol Hill, helped by the left to begin with, because the right finally got tired of being cheated.. compared to burning a whole city down because a cop had no choice but to kill-or-be-killed when it came to apprehending a known/past criminal.
Interesting how that works, huh? Either way.. One riot to many riots.
Jan 6 was nothing compared to the George Floyd destruction and you know it but in all fairness you can celebrate topless trans freaks on the WH lawn, what a great message for Americans 🍺
