An interesting thought. If they implemented promotion and relegation it would get very interesting.
Lawyer theory on ACC teams moving to the SEC...
- Thread starter hmt5000
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Exactly, we are not talking about small amout of money. Just who would be willing to loan that kind of money to a school that has struggled financially for years. No one has stepped up yet, they made their threats and demands, and now they are getting ready for ACC action. If 1.5B got them out of ACC and someone was willing to loan it they would be out now. But we are talking nearly 100 home games, won't the price have to be agreed on? If ESPN isn't open to negotiations, how can there be a compromise?
Which is what FSU is staring down and why they’re so aggressive about leaving
Naval Aviation Officer Candidate Zack Mayo-to-Drill Instructor GySgt Emil Foley: "I got nowhere else to go...I got nothing else!!!!" This is FSU, and I agree with many on this thread: If they could get out, they would be out. They have no landing spot, and they're also playing the situation very poorly with their ACC brethren IMO.
Seen and not heard: Clemson (and to some degree Miami, UNC, UVA, VT, etc) seems to be appropriately keeping their cards close to their vest re: expansion. My sense is "we will know, when they want us to know that they're leaving," and that will be when they're standing at a podium with a different conference logo in the background and the details all worked out.
Not elite: By contrast, FSU appears to me as a teenager (a good but not elite program) wanting to be treated as an adult (an elite) and throwing a tantrum when they don't get adult treatment (like elite programs - ND, USC, Tex, Bama, etc). There is the old adage attributable to PM Thatcher (I think): "If you have to say you're important, you are not." Again--this is FSU.
Boo hoo: FSU's perpetual whining and public trashing of their own conference will serve what end? Much of their situation is self-inflicted. One popular podcast of FSU homers self-disclosed that FSU underfunded their own FB program for a decade (when compared to their ACC counterparts), and NOW they want their conference affiliation to (1) make up the difference AND (2) help them keep pace with SEC/B1G programs.
Athletic (SEC) Questions: Who would want to take a program into a top tier athletic conference like the SEC that displays (1) short-sighted athletic financials, (2) a lack of conference loyalty, and (3) a penchant for public tantrum throwing? Answer: Not the SEC.
What value does FSU add for the SEC over better (and calmer) athletic program competitors (Clemson and Miami) or new audience programs (UNC, UVA, VT, or NCSU)? Answer: A half-dozen ACC counterparts are ALL better options for the SEC.
IMO, FSU is running a grand smoke screen. As an athletic program, FSU is good, but not elite. They've had one great FB coach, and he won two of their three NCs during an impressive run, BUT they were outplayed by their biggest rival (Miami) for most of that time period. New additions to the SEC (UT and OU) are decidedly better traditional athletic programs (in FB and across multiple sports). PLUS, UT and OU brought the SEC new TV markets and access to huge traditional fanbases.
Academic (B1G) question: Is FSU a match for the B1G when you take other ACC candidates into consideration? IMO, the answer is an unqualified "no." Academically, FSU is not great...and some would argue only "barely good," and that matters to the B1G. New B1G additions USC, UCLA, UW, and UO....along with potential additions ND, Stanford, and Cal are ALL decidedly better academic institutions than FSU. In addition, the ACC is filled with schools that are more "B1G-like" academically than FSU: UNC, UVA, VT, GT, Duke, WF....shoot even NCSU, Clemson and Miami are better. Narrowed-down, I would consider Miami, Clemson, and UNC as MUCH better fits (considering academics & athletics combined) than FSU for the B1G.
What does the ACC do? Likely answer: Hold FSU to their conference agreement for the near term--perhaps the whole duration. In fact, given the seminole's public jacka$$ery, I expect some of the old guard ACC schools (UNC, UVA, Duke, NCSU, and maybe Clemson) to make it uncomfortable for FSU at the same time. I think the collegial atmosphere toward FSU in the ACC is over, and they may find themselves investigated more frequently on athletic matters and outvoted on conference issues in the future. It is funny how those things happen to undisciplined business partners.
Pass the popcorn!
GBB!
Seen and not heard: Clemson (and to some degree Miami, UNC, UVA, VT, etc) seems to be appropriately keeping their cards close to their vest re: expansion. My sense is "we will know, when they want us to know that they're leaving," and that will be when they're standing at a podium with a different conference logo in the background and the details all worked out.
Not elite: By contrast, FSU appears to me as a teenager (a good but not elite program) wanting to be treated as an adult (an elite) and throwing a tantrum when they don't get adult treatment (like elite programs - ND, USC, Tex, Bama, etc). There is the old adage attributable to PM Thatcher (I think): "If you have to say you're important, you are not." Again--this is FSU.
Boo hoo: FSU's perpetual whining and public trashing of their own conference will serve what end? Much of their situation is self-inflicted. One popular podcast of FSU homers self-disclosed that FSU underfunded their own FB program for a decade (when compared to their ACC counterparts), and NOW they want their conference affiliation to (1) make up the difference AND (2) help them keep pace with SEC/B1G programs.
Athletic (SEC) Questions: Who would want to take a program into a top tier athletic conference like the SEC that displays (1) short-sighted athletic financials, (2) a lack of conference loyalty, and (3) a penchant for public tantrum throwing? Answer: Not the SEC.
What value does FSU add for the SEC over better (and calmer) athletic program competitors (Clemson and Miami) or new audience programs (UNC, UVA, VT, or NCSU)? Answer: A half-dozen ACC counterparts are ALL better options for the SEC.
IMO, FSU is running a grand smoke screen. As an athletic program, FSU is good, but not elite. They've had one great FB coach, and he won two of their three NCs during an impressive run, BUT they were outplayed by their biggest rival (Miami) for most of that time period. New additions to the SEC (UT and OU) are decidedly better traditional athletic programs (in FB and across multiple sports). PLUS, UT and OU brought the SEC new TV markets and access to huge traditional fanbases.
Academic (B1G) question: Is FSU a match for the B1G when you take other ACC candidates into consideration? IMO, the answer is an unqualified "no." Academically, FSU is not great...and some would argue only "barely good," and that matters to the B1G. New B1G additions USC, UCLA, UW, and UO....along with potential additions ND, Stanford, and Cal are ALL decidedly better academic institutions than FSU. In addition, the ACC is filled with schools that are more "B1G-like" academically than FSU: UNC, UVA, VT, GT, Duke, WF....shoot even NCSU, Clemson and Miami are better. Narrowed-down, I would consider Miami, Clemson, and UNC as MUCH better fits (considering academics & athletics combined) than FSU for the B1G.
What does the ACC do? Likely answer: Hold FSU to their conference agreement for the near term--perhaps the whole duration. In fact, given the seminole's public jacka$$ery, I expect some of the old guard ACC schools (UNC, UVA, Duke, NCSU, and maybe Clemson) to make it uncomfortable for FSU at the same time. I think the collegial atmosphere toward FSU in the ACC is over, and they may find themselves investigated more frequently on athletic matters and outvoted on conference issues in the future. It is funny how those things happen to undisciplined business partners.
Pass the popcorn!
GBB!
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New article
Acording to Pat Forde, FSU will give notice to leave the ACC, very soon.
https://saturdayroad.com/florida-st...ice-to-leave-acc-in-coming-days-or-weeks/amp/
Acording to Pat Forde, FSU will give notice to leave the ACC, very soon.
https://saturdayroad.com/florida-st...ice-to-leave-acc-in-coming-days-or-weeks/amp/
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They were next invite to big a week ago too. But I am sitting on edge waiting for their next big move.
LoL sounds more & more that Cal Berkeley & Stanford will get ACC invites. Stanford stole SMU's idea and are saying invite us and we play for free for a few yrs, no TV money needed, $0.00. FSU & Clemson hate it....but the rest of the ACC figure they will be out ASAP anyway, expansion or not. ESPN then has 2 locations to schedule some 10:30 pm est kickoff pACC18 after dark games, so that makes them happy.
FSU pulling a rope a dope? Fighting to get out...and figure SEC or Big 10 will blink and invite them, to keep the other conference from getting them? Bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it develops.
FSU pulling a rope a dope? Fighting to get out...and figure SEC or Big 10 will blink and invite them, to keep the other conference from getting them? Bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it develops.
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Feinbaum was saying that he thought the SEC would want FSU to keep BiG schools out of the deep south for recruitiing purposes and the BiG would want them for recruiting purposes. He also said that UNC and UVA were the only 2 acc teams that he's heard mentioned as additions to the sec... which seems weird.
I wonder if the ACC is considering admitting Stanford/Cal as football only school? With a nine game conference schedule it would require a lot lot fewer cross country trips. If ND would agree to play one of the West coast school a year in CA, it would only require three trips from East to West a year.
For all of the other sports the west coast schools could join the WAC.
For all of the other sports the west coast schools could join the WAC.
Does anyone know if they need a unanimous vote to add a team? They had 4 vote against adding the Pac teams. I haven't heard anything since on whether they were going to join.
But NcSt has more alumni and VaTech is more of ab atmosphere than UVA. You add more eyeballs and get a better product.
Three schools are required to officially nominate a school. Then the prospective new member submits an expression of interest to the conference along with an information packet that is distributed to all of the schools.
At that point, it requires at least a three-fourths vote to officially extend an invitation and add a new school. So they’d need 12 schools to vote yes.
I have not seen those 2 specific schools, but a North Carolina school and a Virginia school. NCST is a much better fit and we just added one that wants to run things, we don't need NC. Virginia and it's academics will be prime BIG target, and I think VT would be a better fit there too.
I like NCSU because pre-arrival of VT, Miami, and FSU to the ACC, the Wolfpack along with Clemson were considered to be the only FB-focused schools in an otherwise BB conference. Good FB DNA with NCSU, respectable BB, vocal fans, and it is a high quality engineering school.
I also like VT (although they've fallen on hard times lately). They truly are more of "THE state school" in VA IMO (from 13 years living there too). Similar to the aTm (Ag & tech school) vs U-Tex (tea sippers) in the lone star state, UVA is considered to be the snooty public school in Virginia....with admission standards beyond the reach of much of the HS populous in the commonwealth (although W&M, VT, Mary Washington, W&L, UofR, JMU, VMI, etc, etc, etc, offer a lot of really good options for high quality academics in VA). VT is no slouch academically (another renown tech school like NCSU) plus their lunch pail attitude is more SEC-ish and their fan fervor is aligned with our conference brand of Saturday FB atmosphere.
BUT....plan for UVA and/or UNC overtures to the SEC: It would not surprise me in the least if UNC and UVA made a play to enter the SEC. We have a hand-full of top 100 academic schools too (Vandy, UF, UGA, etc), plus the ACC took UL and FSU into the fold, and they're not exactly pressurizing the upper tier of the college rankings. Most importantly: I think the idea of traveling to the west coast for non-money sports is just suboptimal. If you can get same/similar dollars and have more reasonable/regional travel in the SEC, why sign on to sending the rifle team to UofWashington for a shootout? UNC and UVA will probably apply some gray matter to the problem, and I could see one or both giving the SEC a hard look.
Regardless, a good situation for us when the ACC collapses down-the-line.
GBB!
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A decade ago, right after adding Texas a&m and Mizzou, the smart expansion money was on the SEC then adding a North Carolina school and a Virginia school. Expanding the SEC footprint to geographic logical areas, adding large numbers of SEC Network cable subscribers. For goodness sake the SEC network studios were built in Charlotte, not Birmingham or Knoxville. Logic was the targets would be NC State and Virginia Tech. North Carolina-Chapel Hill was chained to Duke and Basketball. NC St, the thought was, would love the chance to show up Big Brother by separating to a more football serious conference. And at the time the Virginia Tech name still ment something, and were also committed to seriously competing in football.
Now? Va Tech is worthless. And UNC Chapel Hill has smartened up and have joined FSU and Clemson in clamoring for better football decisions.
Now? Va Tech is worthless. And UNC Chapel Hill has smartened up and have joined FSU and Clemson in clamoring for better football decisions.
Just giving an opinion, but I think Big 10 wants in both those states too. Academically I just think NC and UV are better fits for big 10, and think too highly to join the SEC.
Could be, but TX lowered their noses. And I think B1G would have taken them.
Most likely, but I think Texas chose SEC for a different reason. They only have to deal with Bama as they attempt to take over thr conference. While in Big10 Mich and OSU are there to keep those conference killers in line.
Texas approached the Big 10 before the SEC, They were told that the Big 10 would take them, but not Oklahoma. They wanted OU as a package deal, so they turned to the SEC. The academic issue is a very real deal with Big 10 presidents. They will not take a school that doesn’t have a stellar academic reputation, and the only program that isn’t in the AAU that has any shot at all is Notre Dame. If the Big 10 expands again, there is a very short list of schools to pick from. It is basically the Irish, UVA, UNC, Miami (who recently were accepted into the AAU) as the most likely with Stanford, Cal, Ga Tech, Syracuse, Pitt, and Kansas as outside the box sort of options. I suppose you could also add Florida to the mix, but I highly doubt that would happen.
The SEC has different criteria for what they will be looking for, but their list may be even shorter than the Big 10. There just aren’t that many schools left that move the needle when it comes to the money involved.
The SEC has different criteria for what they will be looking for, but their list may be even shorter than the Big 10. There just aren’t that many schools left that move the needle when it comes to the money involved.
VT was selling out Lane Stadium with a 3 win rebuild season. They are #1 for football viewing in the state and DC. They won't be down long, the fans won't allow it. UVA brings none of that. They follow whatever sport is winning.
UNC better football decisions? It's their former AD and later ACC commissioner that screwed the whole conference with the GOR and ESPN deals to better a deal for his son in law at Raycom sports. Another program that goes as the winning goes. Mac Brown is already 71 yrs old, when he leaves UNC goes back to a basketball school. UNC deserves to sink with that ship.
You are correct. Looks like they were accepted back in June. Basically for the Big 10, if you are not on this list you aren't getting in.
I don't know if the SEC has a specific criteria for what they are looking for. If we are looking at current patterns, then you had better either have a massive TV market or a major brand/following. Missouri fit the TV market. OU fit the brand. aTm and Texas check both boxes. Looking across the landscape at what is available for the SEC to add, there really isn't much that fits either box. VA Tech represents a TV market. I would bet that viewership for NC St football is larger than UNC, so they might fit the bill. Clemson and FSU are brands, but whether they are big enough to move the needle for an SEC bid is debatable. Personally, I think Pitt would be an incredible addition to the SEC, but they don't have the TV Market or the brand.
Unless the Media Companies get involved to the point where they are making it worthwhile for the Big 10 to try and force some schools out of the ACC GOR, I think we are finished with Big 10/SEC expansion for a bit. The Big 10 could throw Stanford and/or Cal a lifeline on some sort of lifeline just because they want them in the conference for Academics. Otherwise, ESPN has no incentive to break up the ACC. The Big 12 and the Power 5 conferences are still going to play around with their lineups, but that is not the focus of everyone's attention.
You lost me on Pitt, But the commissioner has said SEC isn't looking to add right now. I think SEC will take FSU to keep Big10 out of Florida, would, Big 10 would love to get a foothold in the deep south. They got the foothold in Cali already.
I posted the recent Pat Forde article in this thread. Basically, he said that he has heard from sources within the ACC that FSU will anounce very soon that they are leaving the ACC. This would mean that this year and next will be their last years in the ACC. If this happens, it will create a domino effect, and other ACC teams will follow. My prediction is that FSU and Clemson will join the SEC along with two other ACC teams. I don't care what Sankey is saying publicly. He is saying what he has to say. He can't and won't be seen as the person that broke up the ACC.
IMO the SEC knows who from the ACC they will invite. They just won’t do it publicly until those schools announce they are leaving the ACC first.
Maybe the most fascinating realignment story so far. by almost everyone's analysis FSU can't get out of the ACC, and doesn't have a waiting invitation from the SEC or Big 10 if they did. Don't fit the academic profile that the Big 10 pretends is important. Doesn't open new viewer markets or recruiting territory for the SEC.
But damn if they aren't plowing forward anyway
But damn if they aren't plowing forward anyway
If the Big 10 wants into Florida, they will invite Miami. Convincing Florida to join the Big 10 is a lot more likely than FSU getting an invite, and I really don't think that is likely at all.
A scenario that might be interesting to think about involves the state of Texas. aTm left the Big 12 to get away from Texas. They are members of the AAU. What if the Aggies decided they were very serious about wanting to stay away from the Longhorns and decided to apply for admission to the Big 10. I don't know if there is any realignment story that would set off a firestorm bigger than a school from the Big 10 or SEC jumping ship to the other conference but if someone were to do it, I would lay money on the Aggies over just about anyone else.
A scenario that might be interesting to think about involves the state of Texas. aTm left the Big 12 to get away from Texas. They are members of the AAU. What if the Aggies decided they were very serious about wanting to stay away from the Longhorns and decided to apply for admission to the Big 10. I don't know if there is any realignment story that would set off a firestorm bigger than a school from the Big 10 or SEC jumping ship to the other conference but if someone were to do it, I would lay money on the Aggies over just about anyone else.
Yes Aggies are one of the richest schools out there . They can do whatever they want .
Again, I don't think the SEC ever "looks" to add members. It allows schools to approach them.
Come on. A&M didn't want away from TX. They wanted away from their domination of the B12 due to the B12 allowing it. TX will never dominate the SEC and will be just one school. Period. They lowered their ego for the money. LOL at FL joining B1G.
Yea. I think he was good at 16 but if BiG and big 12 go to 24 or 28 teams then you almost have to expand to keep up the arms race. I don't know if they expand past 20 teams but you almost have to at least have that many for tv deals and marketing. It will get to a point of diminishing results.
10 years ago I think you would be correct, but things are not the same as 10 years ago. Pac12 originated as Pacific coast conference in 1915, older than the SEC by 17 years, an original P5 school. Today, it's entering its final season because it's members have been taken in by 2 other conferences. SEC brought in 2 teams, Big10 not only matched but brought in a couple more. Big12 grabbed multiple Pac12 teams and some non P5 teams.
I don't know what's going to happen, but as little as 10 years ago, I didn't think the Pac12 would cease to exist, Texas and OU would be in the SEC or SoCal, UCLA, Wash and Oregon would be in BIG10. I just think if we intend to remain the top conference, we need to keep our biggest competitor out of our house. Big 10 having multiple teams in the SEC footprint will hurt the SEC teams not in those states, Carolina, UK, Missouri, and Mississippi schools the most because they will be taking player willing to leave their state.
Sources: ACC ramps up Cal, Stanford, SMU talks
The ACC will hold a series of meetings this week to discuss the potential additions of Stanford, California and SMU, including how additional money from the schools would be distributed among ACC members, sources told ESPN..
All three new members would join in all sports, would sign the ACC’s grant-of-rights agreement and would see their annual revenue distribution slowly rise to become full share members by the end of the contract.
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HMMM. SMU got in. And some were wondering what super rich boosters would mean to anyone.
