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Kicking the FG instead of going for the TD

One thing the field goal people aren't taking into account is there are no 50+ yard touchdowns in overtime. So that eliminates most of their offense. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I am in the pro go for the TD camp. Wildcatwelder (I believe that was the other poster) and myself were the first 2 people to mention that the TD was better in our opinions on the game thread. Even one of the announcers mentioned it as well right after we did.

Going for it
*You score you win outright.
*You don't score they have to go 98+ yards to beat you.
*You don't score they have to go at least 70 yards to have a chance at a reasonable FG (one of their possessions had the line to make like around the 22 for a FG for them).


Kicking the FG
*Make the FG they have to go 75 yards for a TD to win.
*Make the FG and no chance to tie and go to OT.
*Miss the FG and they can tie or win.

So both ways have positives and negatives. I prefer they have to drive 98+ yards (or already be over for them with us scoring a TD) than to give them a shot to beat us with a TD on a shorter field (at least 23 yards closer). I wasn't as worried about them hitting a long FG for the tie with their kicking woes. I was worried about them scoring on a long TD pass though. As I said earlier, they don't get a long field in OT. Can they beat us without the big play?



I still prefer the winning way, whichever it is. In this game it was the FG.
 
I created this account after years of lurking on this forum simply because of that ABSURD decision to kick the fg at the end of tonights game instead of going for the 2 yard TD.

This is not a post to discuss the season, the game, Mark Stoops, his coaching ability, etc....

I am not here to introduce myself or explain my fandom.

I simply need someone out there to know that making the choice to kick the FG in that situation was one of the worst calls I have ever seen.

Missouri scoring a touchdown BEATS YOU EITHER WAY. There really is no argument here. You go for the touchdown to put the game away. If you don't make it, they need to drive 98+ yards to beat you anyway.

You have to have confidence that you can make those 2 yards to seal it. If you don't make it you have to have confidence that you can prevent them from driving 98+ yards with no timeouts to beat you. You have to at the very least have confidence that you can hold them to a FG that simply ties you and then you go beat them in OT.

That call was a complete lack of confidence in the team. It was a pathetic, worthless, gutless and above all else stupid decision. Happy for the win, but again, this post is not about anything else. Mark Stoops, Eddie Gran, Mitch Barnhart, Eli Capilouto... John Calipari... whoever, I don't care...... I need SOMEBODY out there to know how livid I was when our field goal unit trotted out onto the field. That is all.
What would you have said if he went for it and not made it and got beat bc of it? Let me answer, "That call was a complete lack of confidence in the team. It was a pathetic, worthless, gutless and above all else stupid decision
 
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Thankfully the refs helped us out tonight, or Lock gets another endzone shot to win the game..............This approach can and will beat similar talent, but it will NOT beat the best in our conference. We'll see how it goes down at MSU. I don't think we want to leave the ball in Fitzgerald's hands with a chance to win.
 
5-1

One point away from being potentially undefeated.

Your drivel only has a chance to work if UK loses. They didn’t so your point comes up lame.

So, we've got you down for one "woulda, coulda, shoulda", is that right? LMAO.

I think we see where lame is ; )
 
C O N S E R V A T I S M
kənˈsərvədizəm/
noun



    • 1.
      commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation.
He was the most conservative coach, remember when he did fake punt ball zee. This conservative coach is getting us beat. You are feeding the troll, look how many posts he has. Nice first post huh
 
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Thankfully the refs helped us out tonight, or Lock gets another endzone shot to win the game..............This approach can and will beat similar talent, but it will NOT beat the best in our conference. We'll see how it goes down at MSU. I don't think we want to leave the ball in Fitzgerald's hands with a chance to win.

So out of our last sixteen games, have we been the most talented in 12 of them?

And with lesser talent and depth, then the big boys in our conference. Isn't shortening the game the best option.

I'll give you a basketball reference to help you out. Princeton always plays everyone tough in tourney over history. Hey are not more talented, but they shorten the game. Limit possession and have a shot to win a game late. We are that type of style of team.

Although recruiting is much better. We still are getting out recruited by 75 percent of our league
 
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I created this account after years of lurking on this forum simply because of that ABSURD decision to kick the fg at the end of tonights game instead of going for the 2 yard TD.

This is not a post to discuss the season, the game, Mark Stoops, his coaching ability, etc....

I am not here to introduce myself or explain my fandom.

I simply need someone out there to know that making the choice to kick the FG in that situation was one of the worst calls I have ever seen.

Missouri scoring a touchdown BEATS YOU EITHER WAY. There really is no argument here. You go for the touchdown to put the game away. If you don't make it, they need to drive 98+ yards to beat you anyway.

You have to have confidence that you can make those 2 yards to seal it. If you don't make it you have to have confidence that you can prevent them from driving 98+ yards with no timeouts to beat you. You have to at the very least have confidence that you can hold them to a FG that simply ties you and then you go beat them in OT.

That call was a complete lack of confidence in the team. It was a pathetic, worthless, gutless and above all else stupid decision. Happy for the win, but again, this post is not about anything else. Mark Stoops, Eddie Gran, Mitch Barnhart, Eli Capilouto... John Calipari... whoever, I don't care...... I need SOMEBODY out there to know how livid I was when our field goal unit trotted out onto the field. That is all.

Smart percentage play. Make Mizzou go the whole distance. Success
 
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Let's address a couple things I'm seeing here in the replies. I have lurked on the wildcat lair for years. I read UkErik's game breakdowns every week. I look forward to his outlook on the season before the first game each year. I know Glen(n) has terrible takes. I know that our basketball cats need to have a "fast paste" offense this year if they want to compete for a title. I know how unbelievably negative and toxic it can be here after a loss. I know that 95% of the posts on the rafters give UK basketball fans a bad look.

More than that, I know Kentucky football. I would contend that this program has given its fans more heartbreak than any other program in all of sports. It's harder to be a UK football fan than a Cubs, Browns or any other. I remember Marty Moore in the Peach Bowl. I remember a certain TD pass in the Swamp. I remember the Bluegrass Miracle. I am far from a troll. I am a Kentucky football fan. As a matter of fact I am one of those rare fans that follows the football team more so than the basketball team. I simply prefer the sport of football and no matter how many gut punches, crotch kicking and the like that this program deals me, I come back next saturday for another. The florida game just 2 weeks ago was devastating. Yet there I was watching us beat EMU, and here I am watching us beat Missouri.

I am not bashing the team as someone else pointed out. Nor am I unduly criticizing the coaching staff. This thread was clearly stated to be about nothing other than the bad choice to kick a FG and pray for a victory. The 4th down trick punt is irrelevant. Any other call in Mark Stoops history is irrelevant. It's not about his conservative nature in general.

I'll put it as simply as possible.

We won the game. The bad call to kick the FG did not come back to haunt us. That doesn't change the fact that it was a bad call. You can still win a game if you make a bad call.

As easy of a FG as it was, it was still a FG attempt. It could have been blocked, blocked and returned, bad snap, missed. There is still some risk involved in the attempt. So lets not act like taking the 3 points was sure fire in itself.

But the 3 points still left us one play away from LOSING the game. Just like an unsuccessful 4th down try for a TD would have left us.

Attempting a field goal was showing a tremendous lack of confidence in your team all around. You are saying to your offense " we cant get 2 yards". You are saying to your defense "hey we know you are incapable of keeping them from driving from the 2 yard line into field goal range, so please at least dont let them in the endzone". And you are essentially saying to your entire team "if we go to OT, we lose". You are telling every unit of your team that you don't trust them to do their jobs and that you are just going to try for 3 points and hold on for dear life, praying that you don't blow it.

Sorry if you disagree, you're wrong. Deal with it.
 
Love the Benny Hill them song. That run where Bowden shook off a defender hanging on to his ankle, sprinted to one side, stiff armed another defender and cut back the other way was a thing of beauty. He made it all on his own and the moves looked like a belly dancer with saint vitus dance.
 
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I think he knew our defense was gassed and was about to get shredded.

Felt better about the prospect of batting down a likely end zone pass than he did about keeping them out of FG range, even starting from their own 2.


The decision reflected a lack of confidence in both our offense and defense at that point, and the lack of confidence was well deserved.
 
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I don't think there was a right or wrong on that call. Coach Stoops was going to be second guessed regardless of the call. The nice part of it, WE WON, so it must have been the right call.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
Basically agree. The decision is defensible either way. Given the score, the amount of time still left, the position on the field, my distrust of our defense, and the fact their kicker didn't appear to be very reliable I was hoping that we'd go for the touchdown. But that decision is the least of what concerns me about last night. And we did win the game.
 
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It was a close call but the correct one...especially given their lack of time outs. But I was disappointed in the conservative play calling on first and goal....we've got to let Johnson take a shot or two in that scenario. Somehow it worked out.
 
It was a close call but the correct one...especially given their lack of time outs. But I was disappointed in the conservative play calling on first and goal....we've got to let Johnson take a shot or two in that scenario. Somehow it worked out.
Why would you take a shot or two up with ball and less then three minutes? If you don't catch it and clock doesn't run. You save them their timeout, and give them an extra 80 seconds (two 40 second play clocks).

The first down play was a read option that got seven yards......
 
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Yeah but they could have also got in field goal range and tied it and won in OT and Stoops would have been pasted for that too.

We won...

Let it go..
This^^^^^. He made the best decision given our strengths. Rely on offense to get the touch down or, defense to hold them. Even though the defense was playing poorly yesterday, it was still our best option.
 
I created this account after years of lurking on this forum simply because of that ABSURD decision to kick the fg at the end of tonights game instead of going for the 2 yard TD.

This is not a post to discuss the season, the game, Mark Stoops, his coaching ability, etc....

I am not here to introduce myself or explain my fandom.

I simply need someone out there to know that making the choice to kick the FG in that situation was one of the worst calls I have ever seen.

Missouri scoring a touchdown BEATS YOU EITHER WAY. There really is no argument here. You go for the touchdown to put the game away. If you don't make it, they need to drive 98+ yards to beat you anyway.

You have to have confidence that you can make those 2 yards to seal it. If you don't make it you have to have confidence that you can prevent them from driving 98+ yards with no timeouts to beat you. You have to at the very least have confidence that you can hold them to a FG that simply ties you and then you go beat them in OT.

That call was a complete lack of confidence in the team. It was a pathetic, worthless, gutless and above all else stupid decision. Happy for the win, but again, this post is not about anything else. Mark Stoops, Eddie Gran, Mitch Barnhart, Eli Capilouto... John Calipari... whoever, I don't care...... I need SOMEBODY out there to know how livid I was when our field goal unit trotted out onto the field. That is all.

I think it was a terrible decision given the context of the game, but many "football people" out there would disagree with you. It was a long two yards, so conventional wisdom says make the other team score a TD to beat you instead of a FG to tie. Given the ease with which they were scoring the how bad their FG kicker was, I would have gone for TD, but he didn't and it worked out. Moving on...
 
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Someone may have said this just got tired of reading the negative post so I stopped reading. I think the field goal was the logical decision to easy for a team like Missouri to get down the field but things get tough against the prevent defense in the red zone. Seen teams drive the field to many times even UK on occasion with their so called stupid coaches and bad quarterback. For the injuries we have had this team is doing good and I feel showing improvement so I will rejoice and be glad we are 5 and 1
 
So out of our last sixteen games, have we been the most talented in 12 of them?

And with lesser talent and depth, then the big boys in our conference. Isn't shortening the game the best option.

I'll give you a basketball reference to help you out. Princeton always plays everyone tough in tourney over history. Hey are not more talented, but they shorten the game. Limit possession and have a shot to win a game late. We are that type of style of team.

Although recruiting is much better. We still are getting out recruited by 75 percent of our league

You really don't get it. There is no STATIC response in football. It is a dynamic sport, with each situation having a myriad (a bunch) of variables. The BEST option, is NOT always to shorten the game. It sounds great, but there is little thing called MOmentum in the game of football that is intangible, yet very, very important. See the UF game for reference. We let the air out of that one waaaayyyyy too early, letting UF back in the game. You did see the three and outs, right? We were scoring, and then we decide to go conservative. You've seen it before, many times. It allows our opponent to stay close.

To your point, you CAN shorten the game, IF you can run the ball, or have an effective short pass game. We do not have a solid reliable short passing game. By that, I mean where the short pass is a high percentage pass, like 90+, Mumme style passing. Thus, we MUST be able to run the ball, or we do not control the clock. I've not looked at the stats, but I don't think we were controlling the run game last night. As a matter of fact, Snell had more stops for a loss in this game, than he has had all season. Give Mizzou their do, they came to play last night. Amazing what media/fan/peer pressure can do to get players/coaches attention (see LSU performance for another example). People tend to play with their hair on fire when they themselves are getting the heat. That makes for what we call some intense football. I think Mizzou was intense last night. Our guys played hard and weathered that storm.

I don't buy all the recruiting mumbo jumbo, lol. If that were the case, they'd give the championship to the top recruiting university each year, and call it a day. It would save on concussions! No, player identification and player development, and generally developing a program are key components to success. Add in that you must have discipline, leadership, and innovation (especially against superior forces) to win against the better programs. CMS is doing well in many facets of the game. We even saw a snippet of innovation with the fake punt, so he is coming along. To date, we've not really played a top notch team, and likely won't until UGA. We do however, have a number of good teams on our schedule that we can beat with our talent (if healthy), and I expect we will beat some of them, perhaps all. Hard to judge college football from week to week, as things turn on a dime each and every week.

Princeton is a poor analogy here. One it's basketball. Two is Pete Carril has been gone for about 6 or so years, and the effectiveness of that style went with him. Three, there were not NC's under him either (that is our goal, right? or is it a bowl??). Princeton has not been back to the tourney without him.....Perhaps you'll reference Dean Smith and Phil Ford next?
 
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I can see either way on this one but one thing that helped the FG decision was that we didn't have to worry about a kick off return. Both kickers were putting it out of the back of the end zone all night. I wasn't at the game but and I don't remember the announcers mentioning it but the wind seemed to be blowing hard that direction.
 
I can see either way on this one but one thing that helped the FG decision was that we didn't have to worry about a kick off return. Both kickers were putting it out of the back of the end zone all night. I wasn't at the game but and I don't remember the announcers mentioning it but the wind seemed to be blowing hard that direction.
You're right. And KO's were 10+ yards longer that way. Returns continually happened when kicking other way.
 
Love the Benny Hill them song. That run where Bowden shook off a defender hanging on to his ankle, sprinted to one side, stiff armed another defender and cut back the other way was a thing of beauty. He made it all on his own and the moves looked like a belly dancer with saint vitus dance.
What was so cool is that after the stiff, he was looking around & stepping to see where he might go next but was finally surrounded. Sooner or later he's going to make a highlight clip run.
 
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Agree completely with the OP. Yeah of course I'm happy we won....But that was totally gutless and you dont beat good teams being gutless. Not a good sign.
This..,gutless...and why wouldn't we do a fake punt in an extremely crucial point of gam...
 
whether you agree or not, the right decision was made. had we went on 4th down and get stopped, it gives mo. momentum. just knowing they could kick a fg puts a different mind set than knowing they had to score a td. at the time, i was wanting to go for it but in retrospect, kicking fg was the right decision. and just because the announcers thought we should go is not a valid argument at all. if you are on offense and have to drive 70 yards for a fg or 65 yards to score a td, which would you prefer? it gives the offense an edge knowing they can kick a fg and tie the game. the people saying " they've had problems all night they are probably going to miss" is not good reasoning at all in my opinion. the wrong decision was made on 2nd down. the outside was wide open and they try to run up the middle. almost every time we have tried to run on 3rd and short, we did not get much push and get stopped. i think the odds are more that had we went for it, we would have been stopped. just like the series when we had the fake punt and got stopped on 3rd and short. making the 1st down on the fake punt was the key to winning the game.
 
Let's address a couple things I'm seeing here in the replies. I have lurked on the wildcat lair for years. I read UkErik's game breakdowns every week. I look forward to his outlook on the season before the first game each year. I know Glen(n) has terrible takes. I know that our basketball cats need to have a "fast paste" offense this year if they want to compete for a title. I know how unbelievably negative and toxic it can be here after a loss. I know that 95% of the posts on the rafters give UK basketball fans a bad look.

More than that, I know Kentucky football. I would contend that this program has given its fans more heartbreak than any other program in all of sports. It's harder to be a UK football fan than a Cubs, Browns or any other. I remember Marty Moore in the Peach Bowl. I remember a certain TD pass in the Swamp. I remember the Bluegrass Miracle. I am far from a troll. I am a Kentucky football fan. As a matter of fact I am one of those rare fans that follows the football team more so than the basketball team. I simply prefer the sport of football and no matter how many gut punches, crotch kicking and the like that this program deals me, I come back next saturday for another. The florida game just 2 weeks ago was devastating. Yet there I was watching us beat EMU, and here I am watching us beat Missouri.

I am not bashing the team as someone else pointed out. Nor am I unduly criticizing the coaching staff. This thread was clearly stated to be about nothing other than the bad choice to kick a FG and pray for a victory. The 4th down trick punt is irrelevant. Any other call in Mark Stoops history is irrelevant. It's not about his conservative nature in general.

I'll put it as simply as possible.

We won the game. The bad call to kick the FG did not come back to haunt us. That doesn't change the fact that it was a bad call. You can still win a game if you make a bad call.

As easy of a FG as it was, it was still a FG attempt. It could have been blocked, blocked and returned, bad snap, missed. There is still some risk involved in the attempt. So lets not act like taking the 3 points was sure fire in itself.

But the 3 points still left us one play away from LOSING the game. Just like an unsuccessful 4th down try for a TD would have left us.

Attempting a field goal was showing a tremendous lack of confidence in your team all around. You are saying to your offense " we cant get 2 yards". You are saying to your defense "hey we know you are incapable of keeping them from driving from the 2 yard line into field goal range, so please at least dont let them in the endzone". And you are essentially saying to your entire team "if we go to OT, we lose". You are telling every unit of your team that you don't trust them to do their jobs and that you are just going to try for 3 points and hold on for dear life, praying that you don't blow it.

Sorry if you disagree, you're wrong. Deal with it.
The thing is, it's not a "fact that it was a bad call". The fact is the call worked out the way it was intended, thus making it a good call. Perhaps going for it would have also worked out, and been a good call as well, but we will never know. To talk like your opinion on the matter is factually correct and the other is factually incorrect is just foolishness.
 
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I like the idea of going for it to put the game away but after seeing the play calls on 2nd and 3rd downs I had zero confidence that they would call anything but a run straight into a pile of about 18 men.
I think the key to it working out was UK finally got pressure on the last play and the QB had to throw before he wanted to and the delay it took to get the ball ready for play that cost Mizz at least a snap.
 
This thread was clearly stated to be about nothing other than the bad choice to kick a FG and pray for a victory. The 4th down trick punt is irrelevant. Any other call in Mark Stoops history is irrelevant. It's not about his conservative nature in general.

I'll put it as simply as possible.

We won the game. The bad call to kick the FG did not come back to haunt us. That doesn't change the fact that it was a bad call. You can still win a game if you make a bad call.

As easy of a FG as it was, it was still a FG attempt. It could have been blocked, blocked and returned, bad snap, missed. There is still some risk involved in the attempt. So lets not act like taking the 3 points was sure fire in itself.

But the 3 points still left us one play away from LOSING the game. Just like an unsuccessful 4th down try for a TD would have left us.

Attempting a field goal was showing a tremendous lack of confidence in your team all around. You are saying to your offense " we cant get 2 yards". You are saying to your defense "hey we know you are incapable of keeping them from driving from the 2 yard line into field goal range, so please at least dont let them in the endzone". And you are essentially saying to your entire team "if we go to OT, we lose". You are telling every unit of your team that you don't trust them to do their jobs and that you are just going to try for 3 points and hold on for dear life, praying that you don't blow it.

Sorry if you disagree, you're wrong. Deal with it.
Thanks for posting. I was also there. And I disagree & am dealing with it/you.

First the FG was about as hard as kicking an XP. It's a 99% play regardless of what all can go wrong the other 1%. It's as about as much a given as exists in FB. So much so they should do away with them imo. Waste of time.

Being up 6 means the one play away from losing was a lot more difficult proposition that one play up 3. It's the difference between going 75 yards & actually getting into the EZ and gaining 65-70 yards and still being in the open field. I judge the former as about 3x tougher than the latter. You disagree, OK.

The O demonstrated they couldn't get 2 yards at the GL the previous two plays as well as out on the field several times earlier in the game. Ignoring all those plays is ignoring the game's data. I don't think the FG said anything about the D, but it did make their lives ~3x easier imo.
 
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We didn't have to score a touchdown to insure winning the game. But based on the call, they did.
 
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I created this account after years of lurking on this forum simply because of that ABSURD decision to kick the fg at the end of tonights game instead of going for the 2 yard TD.

This is not a post to discuss the season, the game, Mark Stoops, his coaching ability, etc....

I am not here to introduce myself or explain my fandom.

I simply need someone out there to know that making the choice to kick the FG in that situation was one of the worst calls I have ever seen.

Missouri scoring a touchdown BEATS YOU EITHER WAY. There really is no argument here. You go for the touchdown to put the game away. If you don't make it, they need to drive 98+ yards to beat you anyway.

You have to have confidence that you can make those 2 yards to seal it. If you don't make it you have to have confidence that you can prevent them from driving 98+ yards with no timeouts to beat you. You have to at the very least have confidence that you can hold them to a FG that simply ties you and then you go beat them in OT.

That call was a complete lack of confidence in the team. It was a pathetic, worthless, gutless and above all else stupid decision. Happy for the win, but again, this post is not about anything else. Mark Stoops, Eddie Gran, Mitch Barnhart, Eli Capilouto... John Calipari... whoever, I don't care...... I need SOMEBODY out there to know how livid I was when our field goal unit trotted out onto the field. That is all.

Perhaps you should have not made the decision to post. One might characterize it as a pathetic, worthless, gutless and above all else stupid decision.
 
Why would you take a shot or two up with ball and less then three minutes? If you don't catch it and clock doesn't run. You save them their timeout, and give them an extra 80 seconds (two 40 second play clocks).

The first down play was a read option that got seven yards......
To try and score a touchdown. What I should have said is I wasn't happy we didn't throw the ball on either of those three plays. We need to show a little more imagination deep in the red zone instead of trying to run it in every time. They were sitting on the run obviously.
 
To be fair here... they got into field goal range from taking the ball at the 25. They weren't forced to get the ball at the one or two and drive 65 yards to go to field goal range. They didn't start the drive having to be worried about a possible safety and UK played basically a prevent type defense instead of being aggressive.

It worked out. Scary situation to be in either way. With the way their kicker and long snapper were doing I think I'd take my chance and try to get into the end zone, but I'm not paid millions to make an on the spot decision like that.
You know, we actually played better pass defense with the field compacted. When Mizzou got their TD passes, they were long TD passes.
They scored on what, 58, 64, and 75 yd. passes, we did better when they were 23-35 yds away from our end zone.
 
To try and score a touchdown. What I should have said is I wasn't happy we didn't throw the ball on either of those three plays. We need to show a little more imagination deep in the red zone instead of trying to run it in every time. They were sitting on the run obviously.
When you are second and goal from the two you have to be able to impose your wheel and run it in there. Passing and an incomplete does not make mizzu use timeouts, thus giving them even more time. The second and third down plays (stoops said third was a look to Conrad, that they read) and making them use a timeout was not bad. Our opine has to be able to get two yards there
 
Think the play that SJ ran on was a called pass but Juice got took out and he had no other choice. Was what Stoops said and makes since cause you could tell SJ was confused when he looked up
 
C O N S E R V A T I S M
kənˈsərvədizəm/
noun



    • 1.
      commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation.
I can only LOL knowing that the majority of those people complaining call themselves conservatives but criticize Stoops for being conservative.

I'll say this about kicking the FG rather than going for the TD. It is much easier to defend a defined line (the end zone) than to defend an area (getting into FG range).
If everyone will recall the Tenn - Florida game end of game situation where UF scored at TD on the last play of the game. Many people criticized UT for not having players back to protect against the TD. Well, the game was tied and Florida only needed to move it into FG range to win the game. UT had to protect the entire FG range part of the field, that allowed the UF player to get loose. The final play wasn't thought to be the final play until the QB had to scramble and used all the clock. The way Mizzou was moving the ball it was reasonable to think that they could get into FG range. I didn't like UKs chances if the game got into OT, Stoops probably didn't either. By making them have to get the TD it allows your defense to play it safe, not give up the big plays and make them march down field and use clock.

The data analytics say that it was the right call.
 
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