Kentucky-Louisville Game Thread

[CoachZ77]

The comparison to BCG isn't a very good one. Henderson didn't inherit a program with second-to-none facilities, budget and fan support. Henderson has reached the level of success Cohen reached before he let for a better situation at his alma mater. Let's not forget that Cohen never won his first round regional game here either if memory serves correct.

The difference between UK and UL baseball is that Jurich has spent SEC money for UL to compete in the AAC/Big East while Barnhart has spent AAC money for UK to compete in the SEC. That's gone for the two biggest sports in the SEC.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Originally posted by CoachZ77:
The comparison to BCG isn't a very good one. Henderson didn't inherit a program with second-to-none facilities, budget and fan support. Henderson has reached the level of success Cohen reached before he let for a better situation at his alma mater. Let's not forget that Cohen never won his first round regional game here either if memory serves correct.

The difference between UK and UL baseball is that Jurich has spent SEC money for UL to compete in the AAC/Big East while Barnhart has spent AAC money for UK to compete in the SEC. That's gone for the two biggest sports in the SEC.

You are WRONG here...The difference is Tom Jurich has a free reign with money because he gets support from the boosters at UL(hence all the naming rights) while Mitch gets little to no support from booster unless it is for basketball...Barnhart cannot spend money he does not have or is allowed to spend...The problem at KENTUCKY is that there are two many boosters who want ALL the money spent on basketball only!!!...Football is a perfect example until the fan base revolted!!

 

[wildcat1973]

He can spend more money on baseball.

Also, watching all 6 games this weekend, McDonnell runs a right, well-polished ship. Not a lot of nonsense. A whole lot of energy. Kentucky's dugout was dead all weekend. Totally different body language.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

None of Cousino, Kuhn or Shepherd are ready to go pro - they will waste away in the minors...too many holes in those guys' games. Hope they come back for their own sake and the team would be much better for it.

 

[167Hike]

Originally posted by TCPUKChamps:
Gary Henderson on how UK can get to the next level (now 0-8 in regionals all-time): "You got to win the first game."

Funny to hear him say that considering he didn't start the National POY in the first game.

Look, I think Henderson needs to go just as much as the next guy but him holding Reed out of the first game ended up being a "gift from God" because of the weather. Can you imagine the comments if Henderson started Reed in that first game and we only got 4 or 5 innings out of him because of the weather? We still would have needed the bullpen at some point in that game, and that's when we fall apart (as a side note, is anybody else sick and tired of hearing how great of a pitching coach Henderson is??? tV guys made me sick over that comment).

So I think it's extremely hard to release Henderson now.....but maybe wait and see who all leaves. If a bunch of guys leave who have no business to then I think you can really make the argument that something is wrong in the program, or Henderson has taken us as far as he can and the program is stale, make a change off of that. If not we have to sit back and watch the train wreck of a season next year will be before a move is made.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

^ And I don't think Henderson was "saving" Reed in his mind...he thought it was a better matchup throwing a big armed righty vs KU.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Originally posted by wildcat1973:
He can spend more money on baseball.

Also, watching all 6 games this weekend, McDonnell runs a right, well-polished ship. Not a lot of nonsense. A whole lot of energy. Kentucky's dugout was dead all weekend. Totally different body language.

This is exactly what my friend and I were talking about yesterday...

 

[sluggercatfan]

Originally posted by wildcat1973:
He can spend more money on baseball.

Also, watching all 6 games this weekend, McDonnell runs a right, well-polished ship. Not a lot of nonsense. A whole lot of energy. Kentucky's dugout was dead all weekend. Totally different body language.

He can spend more money on baseball....Really?...Then please tell me why the baseball team is not playing in a new stadium that has been "talked" about for the better part of almost ten years since Cohen was promised one as an incentive to keep him at UK...I am not one of MB biggest fans, but in this situation his hands are tied while TJ has an open purse at UL and has MUCH more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to work with in every sport...There is absolutely no debate on this...The only question is WHY is this the case?

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Recruiting has been very good, so I don't buy the facilities as part of our problem or part of ULs success. UL baseball may be impacted larger than any of their other teams by the conference switch. They will not be hosting regionals anymore...I still believe they will have a solid and successful team though

 

[Comebakatz3]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Recruiting has been very good, so I don't buy the facilities as part of our problem or part of ULs success. UL baseball may be impacted larger than any of their other teams by the conference switch. They will not be hosting regionals anymore...I still believe they will have a solid and successful team though

I don't think the facilities are hurting us too badly. If they were better it would certainly help, but if you look at our ability to recruit then you have to believe that we should be doing great things. As I mentioned, in 2013 we had 15 players drafted. Only one team in the entire nation had more players drafted and that was Vandy with 18. Yet how well did we do last year and this year? Look at last year's recruiting class. We had two of the top 5 pitchers in the nation committed to play for us before they went pro. That is a good sign that they are interested in us. So, I think that the facilities certainly aren't hurting our ability to get players. Where we are lacking is the development of those players and the development of a complete roster. Teams like Vandy, LSU, USC, Ole Miss, Miss State, etc. rarely miss the NCAA tournament and consistently field competitive teams. UK has not done that. We've been competitive just part of the time. We have the talent to do so much more.

Also, those saying that Cohen could only get so far as well... Cohen started with right at nothing and built this program up to go to the regionals. He set out an outstanding foundation for any coach to build upon. Henderson somehow didn't build upon the foundation but actually regressed before finally making some strides back towards success. Had Cohen continued to coach here I think we would be at a much higher ceiling than we are now. He would have continued to bring in top 25 classes and actually gotten results from them. Henderson has brought in the classes, but has not gotten extremely favorable results.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Henderson needs a few of these guys to come back...Kuhn, Cousino and Shepherd all have tons of room to grow.

Kuhn will get hammered defensively, and while he has a good college stick he doesn't have a MLB 3b type of bat. Where is his future if he leaves early? What position...

Cousino is ready defensively, but has tons of work to do offensively. He has bad pitch selection and he isn't very smart in situational baseball. With his speed, he should hit mid 300s.

Shepherd...I just don't see it with him - but I have seen people mention him as possibly leaving...head scratcher as I did not see good stuff from him this year.

Reed has to go - just cant do any better than he did.

Maybe these other guys feel they can improve more under different coaching, we will see.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Henderson needs a few of these guys to come back...Kuhn, Cousino and Shepherd all have tons of room to grow.

Kuhn will get hammered defensively, and while he has a good college stick he doesn't have a MLB 3b type of bat. Where is his future if he leaves early? What position...

Cousino is ready defensively, but has tons of work to do offensively. He has bad pitch selection and he isn't very smart in situational baseball. With his speed, he should hit mid 300s.

Shepherd...I just don't see it with him - but I have seen people mention him as possibly leaving...head scratcher as I did not see good stuff from him this year.

Reed has to go - just cant do any better than he did.

Maybe these other guys feel they can improve more under different coaching, we will see.

I think Shepherd returns and that is a no brainer. I just don't see anything from him indicating that he could get drafted high enough to leave.

Kuhn... my problem here is that I don't see his numbers improving on offense. If there is any time he will be noticed and drafted at a decent spot then it will be this year. His defense can improve but if his hitting goes down so does his stock. I think his draft stock is as high as it is going to get because I don't see his average staying anywhere near what it was this year. To be honest, I see it plummeting. That isn't a knock on Kuhn, it is just a product of how much impact Reed had. So, I think that his best bet on the draft board is this year.

Cousino can make improvements, especially in pitch selection. Be more patient and take more walks and become a more dangerous hitter. However, I think with his attitude and with his abilities he will head to the minors. He just doesn't strike me as a guy that will want to wait around any longer. He plays with an attitude and a confidence about him and I think that will carry over in his decision to leave early. Plus, he is one that seems to have regressed since his freshman year. This staff isn't improving him between now and this time next year so he might as well see if a professional staff can change his approach and get him to be a great leadoff hitting threat.

Reed is gone without a doubt.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

^ Agree with your assessment and that they will go (Kuhn/Cousino)...also think we wont hear much from them when they do decide to move on up.

Hope they make it though.

 

[CloverforkCat]

Originally posted by Comebakatz3:

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Henderson needs a few of these guys to come back...Kuhn, Cousino and Shepherd all have tons of room to grow.

Kuhn will get hammered defensively, and while he has a good college stick he doesn't have a MLB 3b type of bat. Where is his future if he leaves early? What position...

Cousino is ready defensively, but has tons of work to do offensively. He has bad pitch selection and he isn't very smart in situational baseball. With his speed, he should hit mid 300s.

Shepherd...I just don't see it with him - but I have seen people mention him as possibly leaving...head scratcher as I did not see good stuff from him this year.

Reed has to go - just cant do any better than he did.

Maybe these other guys feel they can improve more under different coaching, we will see.

I think Shepherd returns and that is a no brainer. I just don't see anything from him indicating that he could get drafted high enough to leave.

Kuhn... my problem here is that I don't see his numbers improving on offense. If there is any time he will be noticed and drafted at a decent spot then it will be this year. His defense can improve but if his hitting goes down so does his stock. I think his draft stock is as high as it is going to get because I don't see his average staying anywhere near what it was this year. To be honest, I see it plummeting. That isn't a knock on Kuhn, it is just a product of how much impact Reed had. So, I think that his best bet on the draft board is this year.

Cousino can make improvements, especially in pitch selection. Be more patient and take more walks and become a more dangerous hitter. However, I think with his attitude and with his abilities he will head to the minors. He just doesn't strike me as a guy that will want to wait around any longer. He plays with an attitude and a confidence about him and I think that will carry over in his decision to leave early. Plus, he is one that seems to have regressed since his freshman year. This staff isn't improving him between now and this time next year so he might as well see if a professional staff can change his approach and get him to be a great leadoff hitting threat.

Reed is gone without a doubt.

Concerning Max Kuhn, he reminds me somewhat of former Cat Thomas McCarthy also an all SEC 3b as a jr. when he hit .371, with 7 hr and 39 rbi, he returned as a sr. in 2012 and hit .310 with 5 hr and 33 rbi. His numbers as a sr. were solid, but not as spectacular as his jr. year. So, I agree Kuhn would probably be wise to go if he is drafted within the 1st 10-12 rounds.

 

[DubyaT]

I'm linking an article which some of you may find an interest. This article comes from Aaron Fitt, an objective national reporter who covered the Louisville regional for Baseball America. Aaron's is regarded as one of the most knowledgeable college baseball media sorts, so this article stings a bit. He discusses Louisville having the right stuff to get the job done when it matters most (the postseason).

Aaron Fitt

 

[CATS1945]

Originally posted by CloverforkCat:
lightning within 8 miles of stadium, park has been cleared, both teams sent back to their Club houses. Logan Salow to start for UK and Rogers, whom we have beat twice this year will start for the Cards.


This post was edited on 6/1 8:21 PM by TCPUKChamps

Why is it that everytime we play UL there is always controversy (basketball, football) and now this - It guess it comes from the top - Tom Jurich - Time to quit playing them period - we don't have problems with other schools - just UL

 

[CloverforkCat]

Originally posted by DubyaT:

I'm linking an article which some of you may find an interest. This article comes from Aaron Fitt, an objective national reporter who covered the Louisville regional for Baseball America. Aaron's is regarded as one of the most knowledgeable college baseball media sorts, so this article stings a bit. He discusses Louisville having the right stuff to get the job done when it matters most (the postseason).

Very good article, I have no problem with it, tells it pretty much the way it went. UofL's post season success, and of course, playing at home, gave them a mental edge, along with Coach McDonald IMO. This is a rivalry which will be hotly contested, and intense every time they play each year......I really like that, and BTW we won 2 of 3 this year.

 

[CoachZ77]

Slugger, whether you think I am WRONG or not is irrelevant. The point is UL, like most of the SEC, has made more of a commitment to baseball. Yes, UK has done well recruiting, but a lack of facilities cost UK a regional host two years ago. Why do you think Cohen left? Do you think he suddenly became a better coach last year when he took MSU to the World Series when he couldn't win a regional opener at UK? Kent State and Stony Brook are anomalies. Look at who goes to the series every year. It's dominated by teams who make a concerted investment in baseball success.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Originally posted by CoachZ77:
Slugger, whether you think I am WRONG or not is irrelevant. The point is UL, like most of the SEC, has made more of a commitment to baseball. Yes, UK has done well recruiting, but a lack of facilities cost UK a regional host two years ago. Why do you think Cohen left? Do you think he suddenly became a better coach last year when he took MSU to the World Series when he couldn't win a regional opener at UK? Kent State and Stony Brook are anomalies. Look at who goes to the series every year. It's dominated by teams who make a concerted investment in baseball success.

They certainly have made more of a commitment, in several ways. First is by brining in a coach who, in his first coaching job, has done outstanding. They've also provided him with everything he has needed to be successful. One of those being a very nice field (although I still don't like the all field turf).

In terms of why Cohen left... it is because of Mississippi State. Anywhere else comes calling and he likely stays. UK offered him just as much or more money, but Cohen went home to where he played and he followed a legend. It was truly an honor for him. Nothing else mattered. Not our facilities, our commitment, or our money. The only thing that mattered was that the school he played for wanted him back. I'm sure he would have loved better facilities, but it didn't make a difference in his decision.

He may not have become a better coach at MSU, but you have to remember that with Kentucky he was somewhat just getting the ball rolling with talent. He took over when we were a terrible team and had to build us up from nothing. Some of our teams that he did very well with were not overly talented, but he coached them up. When he got to MSU the talent was already there so he could hit the ground running. Plus, at MSU he brought in Butch Thompson, one of the nation's best pitching coaches. A coach who has been to 7 college world series, 5 before coming to MSU. He also won a title in 2001. Plus he has put 22 undrafted high school players into the draft after coaching them for 3-4 years. So, that is a huge difference. Cohen's teams also hit the ball pretty well, but pitching was usually lacking. Remember who the pitching coach was?

I agree with your premise that we need to improve our facilities and invest in baseball. First we need to hire a brand new coach, and then we need to break ground on a brand new stadium pretty much as soon as possible after that.

 

[Mojocat]

Originally posted by 167Hike:

Originally posted by TCPUKChamps:
Gary Henderson on how UK can get to the next level (now 0-8 in regionals all-time): "You got to win the first game."

Funny to hear him say that considering he didn't start the National POY in the first game.

Look, I think Henderson needs to go just as much as the next guy but him holding Reed out of the first game ended up being a "gift from God" because of the weather. Can you imagine the comments if Henderson started Reed in that first game and we only got 4 or 5 innings out of him because of the weather? We still would have needed the bullpen at some point in that game, and that's when we fall apart (as a side note, is anybody else sick and tired of hearing how great of a pitching coach Henderson is??? tV guys made me sick over that comment).

So I think it's extremely hard to release Henderson now.....but maybe wait and see who all leaves. If a bunch of guys leave who have no business to then I think you can really make the argument that something is wrong in the program, or Henderson has taken us as far as he can and the program is stale, make a change off of that. If not we have to sit back and watch the train wreck of a season next year will be before a move is made.

When did Henderson say that? I never read the Courier anymore, but was stuck waiting for a tire rotation Friday and read the sports section. Several pieces about the regional. Two quotes stood out to me. McDonnell said "You have to do whatever you have to do to win the first game." Henderson said "You have to win the first two games."

We see how that worked out.....

I am guessing the quote you give from Henderson was today, after the fact. So maybe he's learned a lesson, but that's small comfort today......

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Originally posted by Mojocat:

Originally posted by 167Hike:

Originally posted by TCPUKChamps:
Gary Henderson on how UK can get to the next level (now 0-8 in regionals all-time): "You got to win the first game."

Funny to hear him say that considering he didn't start the National POY in the first game.

Look, I think Henderson needs to go just as much as the next guy but him holding Reed out of the first game ended up being a "gift from God" because of the weather. Can you imagine the comments if Henderson started Reed in that first game and we only got 4 or 5 innings out of him because of the weather? We still would have needed the bullpen at some point in that game, and that's when we fall apart (as a side note, is anybody else sick and tired of hearing how great of a pitching coach Henderson is??? tV guys made me sick over that comment).

So I think it's extremely hard to release Henderson now.....but maybe wait and see who all leaves. If a bunch of guys leave who have no business to then I think you can really make the argument that something is wrong in the program, or Henderson has taken us as far as he can and the program is stale, make a change off of that. If not we have to sit back and watch the train wreck of a season next year will be before a move is made.

When did Henderson say that? I never read the Courier anymore, but was stuck waiting for a tire rotation Friday and read the sports section. Several pieces about the regional. Two quotes stood out to me. McDonnell said "You have to do whatever you have to do to win the first game." Henderson said "You have to win the first two games."

We see how that worked out.....

I am guessing the quote you give from Henderson was today, after the fact. So maybe he's learned a lesson, but that's small comfort today......

He emphasized winning game 1 before and after the tournament. With his RvR/LvL philosophy I believe he legitimately thought Cody was the best choice for game 1.

I am not as big on that, so I likely would've gone w/Reed (but that doesn't guarantee he wins)...I understand his selection for game 1 and 2. No mistake about it though, losing game 1 lost the tourney for us.

 

[DubyaT]

To add insult to injury, Kennesaw State (3 seed) beat Alabama (2 seed) to win the Tallahassee Regional. So had UK been able to win the Louisville Regional, it would have hosted the Super Regional round at the Cliff. Would have been a good chance for the breakthrough trip to the CWS in Omaha.

 

[CloverforkCat]

Originally posted by DubyaT:

To add insult to injury, Kennesaw State (3 seed) beat Alabama (2 seed) to win the Tallahassee Regional. So had UK been able to win the Louisville Regional, it would have hosted the Super Regional round at the Cliff. Would have been a good chance for the breakthrough trip to the CWS in Omaha.

Wow, Kennesaw State beats Bama out to win that regional. Louisville will be the heavy favorite to win that Super regional.....but, Kennesaw State could be this seasons' Stoney Brook or Kent State !!

 

[sluggercatfan]

Originally posted by CoachZ77:
Slugger, whether you think I am WRONG or not is irrelevant. The point is UL, like most of the SEC, has made more of a commitment to baseball. Yes, UK has done well recruiting, but a lack of facilities cost UK a regional host two years ago. Why do you think Cohen left? Do you think he suddenly became a better coach last year when he took MSU to the World Series when he couldn't win a regional opener at UK? Kent State and Stony Brook are anomalies. Look at who goes to the series every year. It's dominated by teams who make a concerted investment in baseball success.

Not you I was disagreeing with but wildcat1973...I agree with you , but I am saying that MB DOES NOT have the money to spend on baseball because $$$$$$$$boosters will not give money to the baseball program and Barnhardt does not have it to spend on baseball ...On the other hand, TJ has no trouble getting $$$$$$$$boosters giving money to support programs other than basketball... Can you disagree with that just looking at the evidence...??

 

[law1127]

Need a coach like Cohen,who was trying to build a program at UK,not a Henderson ,who does very little to promote the program,or develop players!Stagnant is the image of the program,with very little enthusiasm from fans or players,Cohen realized he needed to generate buzz/interest in team and program.,to elevate its stature in the SEC!