Kentucky compliance...recruiting

[morgousky]

It's time for a discussion about this. Cal has one hand tied behind his back, while Arizona, Duke, and whoever the hell else (north carolina?) Runs around winning at all cost.

Believe it or not, our compliance is a big problem. They've never trusted Cal, they didn't want Cal. It's just a fact. I fully believe they are our problem.

Let Cal loose, or find another program to hoodwink. Kentucky is a beast, let it go.

I'll say it again, and I've met the people. Mitch, Bell, and the rest are insufferable.

Unless you believe Cal decided against going after these guys all on his own? He barely sniffed Bagley.

Anyone?

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Technically Skal was.

 

[Col. Angus]

Cal hasn't landed a top 5 recruit in over 5 years. Remember that.

Anyone?

2012 - Noel (tied for #1)
2013 - Randle (#2)
2014 - Towns (#5)
2015 - Labissiere (#2)

according to the RSCI.

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home

 

[morgousky]

Technically Skal was.

Ok a real top 5 hoss that half the circuit wasn't calling over rated.

 

[morgousky]

Ok not the point. Edited

Now. Discuss.

 

[mailman85]

It's time for a discussion about this. Cal has one hand tied behind his back, while Arizona, Duke, and whoever the hell else (north carolina?) Runs around winning at all cost.

Believe it or not, our compliance is a big problem. They've never trusted Cal, they didn't want Cal. It's just a fact. I fully believe they are our problem.

Let Cal loose, or find another program to hoodwink. Kentucky is a beast, let it go.

I'll say it again, and I've met the people. Mitch, Bell, and the rest are insufferable.

Unless you believe Cal decided against going after these guys all on his own? He barely sniffed Bagley.

Anyone?

Morgousky, I gotta say I agree with you. We all love UK and support Cal so I don't want to hear the naysayers. I give Duke credit as they have landed an all-time class, (Coach K and Capel, have the media drooling over them) ugh,, you have been stomping your feet for some time as have I that Cal needs that LEGIT top 1-3 recruit that puts us in real immediate contention. Now I can't say for sure if it's Mitch or Sandy who may or may not give Cal the go ahead to recruit a couple of these 'Questionable' recruits but I'm sure Cal would love a level playing field. We have a stellar class coming in but I can only imagine what Cal would (he has to be seething right now) do if he had the media and his own administration giving him leeway on some of these recruits that Coach K gets. It's only August and a lot can happen between now and March.... Oh well, I guess that's why we play the games.

 

[morgousky]

Morgousky, I gotta say I agree with you. We all love UK and support Cal so I don't want to hear the naysayers. I give Duke credit as they have landed an all-time class, (Coach K and Capel, have the media drooling over them) ugh,, you have been stomping your feet for some time as have I that Cal needs that LEGIT top 1-3 recruit that puts us in real immediate contention. Now I can't say for sure if it's Mitch or Sandy who may or may not give Cal the go ahead to recruit a couple of these 'Questionable' recruits but I'm sure Cal would love a level playing field. We have a stellar class coming in but I can only imagine what Cal would (he has to be seething right now) do if he had the media and his own administration giving him leeway on some of these recruits that Coach K gets. It's only August and a lot can happen between now and March.... Oh well, I guess that's why we play the games.

Fu*kin A in the hole.

Im not acfually from Kentucky, so I drink Kentucky. Didn't come out right but your post did.

Consider this the OP

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I just want another title. Whoever we need to sign to make it happen, so be it.

 

[MegaBlue05]

I'm good with it.

I'd rather play it safe. We've dodged a lot of bullets in Cal's tenure (Selby, Shabazz, Chane, Bragg, Muiday, Bamba???, etc.).

I know Duke has gotten a few of these reclassification kids lately, but it's not like we're recruiting at Tubby levels. I like the quality of most of kids Cal has been bringing in. No arrests. No suspensions for tripping other players. No hookers in the dorms (What kind of scum bag commuter college would do such a thing?). Generally likable guys who give back to their communities and leave the university in good academic standing. And we've won a bunch of games. I know the title-or-bust crew is getting antsy, but we've been in "the hunt" every year but 2013 and 2016 and were a top four seed every time but the amazing run of 2014. I can accept that after living through the great Final Four famine of 1999-2011.

Unfortunately, at Kentucky we've always got to play everything exactly by the book because our program is scrutinized more than any other in NCAA men's basketball. The NCAA want to catch us slipping so they can punish us for UNC's misdeeds. I'm OK with losing out on a few recruits if it means avoiding a major scandal or serious eligibility/amateurism issues.

 

[BBNinSC]

We still have a better class of incoming Freshman than Duke or anyone.
I would not trade the class that Cal has put together for Duke's straight up. If you count Diallo as
a first-year player, it isn't even close.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

We still have a better class of incoming Freshman than Duke or anyone.
I would not trade the class that Cal has put together for Duke's straight up. If you count Diallo as
a first-year player, it isn't even close.

Agreed.

 

[EvilMD]

Who cares about rankings? We had the highest rated kid at every position in 2013 except for small forward (where we still got a top 15 kid) and they lost 10 games before that magical run. That was a tough year until the tournament.

 

[Smashcat]

Doesn't matter who we bring in. I can guarantee you next March Duke will have a dream path to the Final Four and UK will have the path from hell.

 

[hotelblue]

I'm good with it.

I'd rather play it safe. We've dodged a lot of bullets in Cal's tenure (Selby, Shabazz, Chane, Bragg, Muiday, Bamba???, etc.).

I know Duke has gotten a few of these reclassification kids lately, but it's not like we're recruiting at Tubby levels. I like the quality of most of kids Cal has been bringing in. No arrests. No suspensions for tripping other players. No hookers in the dorms (What kind of scum bag commuter college would do such a thing?). Generally likable guys who give back to their communities and leave the university in good academic standing. And we've won a bunch of games. I know the title-or-bust crew is getting antsy, but we've been in "the hunt" every year but 2013 and 2016 and were a top four seed every time but the amazing run of 2014. I can accept that after living through the great Final Four famine of 1999-2011.

Unfortunately, at Kentucky we've always got to play everything exactly by the book because our program is scrutinized more than any other in NCAA men's basketball. The NCAA want to catch us slipping so they can punish us for UNC's misdeeds. I'm OK with losing out on a few recruits if it means avoiding a major scandal or serious eligibility/amateurism issues.

great post. not saying i know cal isn't being handcuffed on some level. but if the media/ncaa are waiting for uk to screw up so they can build even more unfair narratives of us (as many actually believe), then what would the repercussion have been if we did sign some of these guys? i would argue, not good. even if we didn't care could it potentially have affected other recruitments? it's at least arguable.

 

[HICATFAN]

We still have a better class of incoming Freshman than Duke or anyone.
I would not trade the class that Cal has put together for Duke's straight up. If you count Diallo as
a first-year player, it isn't even close.

^^^THIS^^^

AlohaCat

 

[bthaunert]

I guess the question I would have is who do you believe are the top 5 players over the past 5 years that you think Cal was advised not to recruit?

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I think this is a good discussion because Cal didn't go after Ayton or Bagley with abandon and it's massively disappointing because those two will be playing for top 5 teams and probably go 1-2 in the draft.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Also, the next class suddenly becomes huge for a number of reasons. If Duke lands Williamson or Barrett and Cal fails to land one of them, it further promotes a message that K fades into retirement with a slightly stronger recruiting hand against Cal in the head-to-head, as hard as that might be to believe (but not overall, mind you; just in the head-to-head). Cal has beaten K for…

Wall, Randle, Poythress, Noel, Knox, Murray and Green = 7 guys

K has beaten Cal for…

Irving, Parker, Ingram, Winslow, Tatum, Giles, Kennard, Bolden, Bagley = 9 guys

If K gets Barrett and Reddish, for example, in the next round and Cal strikes out on them (while Williamson goes to some place like Kansas), how would our fans feel in such a situation?



The good news is that K is going on 71 this February. Cal turns 59 in February.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I guess the question I would have is who do you believe are the top 5 players over the past 5 years that you think Cal was advised not to recruit?

Well, we know he didn’t spend much time trying to land Ayton, Duval, Robinson, Jackson, etc.

All of those guys will play in college, too. Might as well recruit them and force the NCAA into a decision. It’s costing UK competitively – maybe not by much, but the slimmest of margins can make all the difference in the tournament. We need to land some of these guys.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

We still have a better class of incoming Freshman than Duke or anyone.
I would not trade the class that Cal has put together for Duke's straight up. If you count Diallo as
a first-year player, it isn't even close.

Maybe.

Bagley will go #1 overall. Carter is a top 5 pick. Duval will probably go lottery.


Talent doesn’t guarantee titles, and Duke will probably have chemistry issues simply based on the personnel K has assembled – Allen, Bolden, Bagley, Duval. Those four are all sourpusses when it comes to the alpha syndrome. I could see a scenario where Duke implodes again.

I could also see a scenario where they come together, and Duval proves us all wrong as a floor general. It’s a coin flip at this point. I think the bigger issue is just trying to enjoy Kentucky’s season even when Coach K goes slumming and gets constantly praised for doing so, which he will.

 

[kats23]

So UK should just burn in the fire to win basketball games because other programs are doing it and seemingly getting away with it? UK is under the microscope and Sandy bell and company know this. Let Cal get some grey area guys and let's just watch what happens. UK would be in probation or the players would be suspended. Games would be vacated. Yeah, let's play right into the hater's hands.

This is right along the lines of an argument UL fans are using right now regarding their NCAA problems and UNC not being punished yet. UL has had their feet held to the fire for months now by everyone on here, including the OP for Win at all costs attitude. Now UK should do the same thing? I knew this Bagley decision would cause some fans to lose it, but never thought I would see this kind of stuff. While we're at it. Where did Duke's superclass get them last year? There are no guarantees how much you cheat or how much you stay clean. So you might as well stay as clean as you can. Cal and more importantly, the administration knows exactly what the media and the NCAA is looking for when it comes to UK.

 

[kev69]

I like the fact that the compliance office is doing a thorough evaluation of every potential recruit.
We know that Cal is under a microscope, so having a compliance staff doing their homework is a good thing.

Bamba may have ended up being a problem, so it wasn't that deflating to me that we didn't land him.

Cal has to play by different standards, so being extremely safe has to be the way to go.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

Bottom line, we need another National Championship and we need it now.

 

[uky8unc5]

Believe it or not, our compliance is a big problem. They've never trusted Cal, they didn't want Cal. It's just a fact. I fully believe they are our problem. Mitch, Bell, and the rest are insufferable.

Morgousky, I appreciate almost all of your posts.
But there isn't a single word or sentiment in this quote that I consider defensible.

In fact, I personally believe just the opposite. Our compliance department is partially responsible for UK's recent success because they've instilled confidence in recruits and critics that UK is clean as a whistle.

 

[Bluesnky]

I think the reason he barley sniffed Bagley (or is it that Bagley barely sniffed UK) is because Kentucky already has 2-4 5-star power forwards on the roster.

 

[YaySports]

Also, the next class suddenly becomes huge for a number of reasons. If Duke lands Williamson or Barrett and Cal fails to land one of them, it further promotes a message that K fades into retirement with a slightly stronger recruiting hand against Cal in the head-to-head, as hard as that might be to believe (but not overall, mind you; just in the head-to-head). Cal has beaten K for…

Wall, Randle, Poythress, Noel, Knox, Murray and Green = 7 guys

K has beaten Cal for…

Irving, Parker, Ingram, Winslow, Tatum, Giles, Kennard, Bolden, Bagley = 9 guys

If K gets Barrett and Reddish, for example, in the next round and Cal strikes out on them (while Williamson goes to some place like Kansas), how would our fans feel in such a situation?



The good news is that K is going on 71 this February. Cal turns 59 in February.

its hard to say he straight up beat Cal for some of those guys considering Cal cooled on them for other players.

 

[kybassfan]

Morgousky, I appreciate almost all of your posts.
But there isn't a single word or sentiment in this quote that I consider defensible.

In fact, I personally believe just the opposite. Our compliance department is partially responsible for UK's recent success because they've instilled confidence in recruits and critics that UK is clean as a whistle.

Absolutely correct.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Sounds like OP wants to Faaaaaar Sandy.

 

[jrm693]

It appears to me that the NCAA is determined to limit Caliparis success, I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature, at the same time I think the big boys of any organization control the outcome within their organization. We have witnessed first hand how Enes was evaluated and not allowed to play, and we have seen some shady characters get to play for other programs, we also watched first hand UNCs title run with highly questionable calls against Arkansas and then the atrocity against UK. I also believe they probably have a hand in OKing off the record to K that any player he wants will be approved. The way UNC has been awarded a red carpet ride through their scandals have defied any type of logic of right and wrong, we all know these things and they have been well documented. But Bagley recruitment just has the same type aroma to it to me, and I believe he was gift wrapped to Duke to offset Cals class.

 

[StubbornPenny]

It doesn't matter. If we ever dared to take a guy with a questionable background, they'd be immediately ruled ineligible. We saw it with Kanter, we already know it'll happen again if the NCAA sees one sliver of daylight. Ayton, Bagley, and Duval would never set foot on the court here, but at the NCAA's pet programs, they're shooed in.

The problem isn't with compliance or Cal. It's the NCAA. Never forget, to them we are the black hat, we are Darth Vader, we are the enemy. The only thing that changes that is if we have a coach like Tubby that can be handled. We will never get the benefit of the doubt when we're a contender. We just have to accept that we metaphorically start every game with a 10-0 deficit.

 

[Real Deal 2]

I think the real question is that Cal and others are thinking, how did we not go this route? How did K and Duke out maneuver us. Cal has always been ahead of curve on recruiting, social media, 1 and done,
Think Cal opened this last year with Diallo.

I would think a kid who is rumored to 18 kid could come in mid term.
Self throwing AAU teammates scholly offers.
Cal is the target. Hats off to K for out maneuvering others.

 

[gracetoyou]

Doesn't matter who we bring in. I can guarantee you next March Duke will have a dream path to the Final Four and UK will have the path from hell.

UK bracket will be:

(1) Michigan St.
(2) Arizona
(3) Kansas
(4) UK
(5) USC
(6) Louisville
(7) UCLA

**Ok, I'll stop with 1st 7 seeds

 

[etowncatfan]

I think everyone is going a little overboard this morning against Mitch,Sandy and Cal. First of all there is so much behind the scene things going on in the dirty world of College Basketball that we don't get to see. There are handlers out there from the very beginning, keeping players from even stiffing at certain Universities or Coaches. Then you have the Family Unit in which a player has to keep happy in his decision. And last,just like us,we have certain teams we grew up despising and the ones we Love. As a coach you have to prioritize you time and effort on those players you really think you have a chance to haul in. In Bagley's case he had family in the Durham area. Duke even got Danny Ferry to allow Bagley to wear Ferry's retired Duke jersey. I for one like the way Cal Recruits. He has an idea which players can play together and which ones would be headaches. We will be fine.

 

[bigbluedon]

Morgousky, I appreciate almost all of your posts.
But there isn't a single word or sentiment in this quote that I consider defensible.

In fact, I personally believe just the opposite. Our compliance department is partially responsible for UK's recent success because they've instilled confidence in recruits and critics that UK is clean as a whistle.

Good post here. Agree.

 

[bigbluedon]

So UK should just burn in the fire to win basketball games because other programs are doing it and seemingly getting away with it? UK is under the microscope and Sandy bell and company know this. Let Cal get some grey area guys and let's just watch what happens. UK would be in probation or the players would be suspended. Games would be vacated. Yeah, let's play right into the hater's hands.

This is right along the lines of an argument UL fans are using right now regarding their NCAA problems and UNC not being punished yet. UL has had their feet held to the fire for months now by everyone on here, including the OP for Win at all costs attitude. Now UK should do the same thing? I knew this Bagley decision would cause some fans to lose it, but never thought I would see this kind of stuff. While we're at it. Where did Duke's superclass get them last year? There are no guarantees how much you cheat or how much you stay clean. So you might as well stay as clean as you can. Cal and more importantly, the administration knows exactly what the media and the NCAA is looking for when it comes to UK.

Great post..Agree totally. OP is in his 20's I believe and this type of thinking would be a good indication. Not too good of a judge of character if you think Mitch and Sandy are insufferable. Good grief.

 

[Blueblood22]

That is one hell of a temper tantrum.

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

Dude just straight up admitted that he based his post off the fact that he just doesn't like Barnhart and Bell.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I have to disagree. Seems like our compliance department and program as a whole knew we'd never get guys like Bagley and Ayton in a jersey. And the second Cal has just ONE player ineligible after he played a game, he'll be crucified by the public and media

I completely agree we are playing by different rules, but there's nothing we can and should do differently. We should not go after these recruits because it's only going to burn us. Cal has nothing to gain by recruiting Bagley.

What we should do is take this up with the NCAA. Maybe schools like Zona and Duke are just rolling the dice and winning every time.. but it seems suspect. The NCAA needs to make it clear if a player, at a given point in time, is 100% eligible and not being scrutinized.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

In my eyes, there is nothing Cal, Sandy, Mitch, or UK did wrong here. We played by the rules that are imposed on us. Rules that are different for Duke.

Bagley just isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[JonathanW]

It's time for a discussion about this. Cal has one hand tied behind his back, while Arizona, Duke, and whoever the hell else (north carolina?) Runs around winning at all cost.
Believe it or not, our compliance is a big problem. They've never trusted Cal, they didn't want Cal. It's just a fact. I fully believe they are our problem.
Let Cal loose, or find another program to hoodwink. Kentucky is a beast, let it go.
I'll say it again, and I've met the people. Mitch, Bell, and the rest are insufferable.
Unless you believe Cal decided against going after these guys all on his own? He barely sniffed Bagley.

Anyone?

And most of us who suffered through Emery-gate and Eric Manual, will say we are happy we have Sandy Bell and the UK compliance Dept, double their salaries, it's worth it!
If we (one of our players) were caught on something, we would not get the same treatment that Duke and (maybe) UNC get. If the AFAM scandal had happened at UK, we would have already been given the death penalty. Had Lance Thomas been at UK in 2012 instead of Duke in 2010, we would have lost that championship and Cal would have that 3rd strike against him. We ALL know this.