Jay Bruce sucks.......

[PTI (pti)]

....true story. He's Adam Dunn, without all the walks.


Bruce = .220 batting avg / .296 on-base% / .494 slugging% / 14 homers / 18 walks / 45 ks
ADunn = .269 batting avg / .399 on-base% / .571 slugging% / 16 homers / 40 walks / 56 ks


He's also more or less a situational/platoon hitter. Versus lefties, he's only slightly more dangerous than my grandmother (god rest her soul).

So far this season, he's hitting .176 with 1 home run and 4 rbi vs. lefties. That's just disgusting.



I'm not saying his career is over, or that he'll never improve, but he's never done anything in his entire career that would suggest he's ready to become a true star. He's been the same hitter his entire professional career. Lots of power, lots of ks, no walks.


2009 (mlb) = 2.50 ks/walk
2008 (mlb) = 3.33 ks/walk
2008 (aaa) = 3.75 ks/walk
2007 (a-aa)= 2.87 ks/walk
2006 (a) = 2.41 ks/walk




Not a good sign at all for his future. At this point, he's more Russell Branyan than he is Adam Dunn.

 

[bigbluefattycat]

He plays gold glove caliber defense in left with good speed on the bases. Fat Donkey is a softball player.

Baby Donkey is still young and he doesn't have Whiffey or Fat Donkey around any longer to teach him any more bad habits.

Let's all hope he can get his head discipline back at the plate. He is not seeing the ball at all.

 

[Jeff Drummond]

Although I'll agree nothing is as bad as Dunn in the OF, Bruce's defense has left a lot to be desired lately. Still, I'd be willing to overlook it with a better approach at the plate. Guys that don't seem to have any rhyme or reason at the dish irritate the hell out of me.

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by Jeff Drummond:
Although I'll agree nothing is as bad as Dunn in the OF, Bruce's defense has left a lot to be desired lately. Still, I'd be willing to overlook it with a better approach at the plate. Guys that don't seem to have any rhyme or reason at the dish irritate the hell out of me.

Let me clarify. Gold glove caliber compared to Whiffey and Fat Donkey.

 

[sinker16]

Dude....he just turned 22. What a stupid post.

 

[trueBLUE0333]

I have an offer to trade Bruce for Vlad Guerrero and Juan Pierre in Fantasy Baseball. Shout I accept?

 

[Jeff Drummond]

Originally posted by trueBLUE0333:
I have an offer to trade Bruce for Vlad Guerrero and Juan Pierre in Fantasy Baseball. Shout I accept?

In a New York minute, even with Vlad's diminished skills/health.

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by sinker16:
Dude....he just turned 22. What a stupid post.

It would be a stupid post if the Reds had the rep of developing players but as PTI said Bruce is becoming more and more like Fat Donkey hence the Beavis nickname of Baby Donkey. The chances of Jacoby or any other idiot in the Reds dugout developing Bruce are slimmer than a toothpick. Edwin, Dunn, Kearns, and etc. have not developed. They are basically the same players they were at the age of 22.

 

[Beavis606]

Didn't take him long to get a gut, either.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
Baby Donkey is still young and he doesn't have Whiffey or Fat Donkey around any longer to teach him any more bad habits.

Now you're just making excuses. In case you haven't noticed, Jay Bruce didn't have Adam Dunn or Ken Griffey around to "teach him any more bad habits" when he was a minor leaguer (and striking out 3x as often as he walked). And they aren't around now, either. He played with those guys for all of about 100 games last season. So don't put the blame on them. Hell, he could *learn* something from Adam Dunn --> how to take a walk. At no point in his professional career has he figured that out.

I completely understand he's young, but he has been the same hitter everywhere he's been as a professional = tons of ks, very few walks, lots of power.



Sorry, but Jay Bruce is who he is. And at every single similar age up to this point in their careers, Adam Dunn is/was a better ballplayer. In many cases, he is/was *significantly* better. Sorry, but it's true.



by the way....



ADunn (aaa - 55 games @ 21 years old) = .329 / .441 / .676 / 20 homers / 51 ks / 38 walks
Bruce (aaa - 49 games @ 21 years old) = .364 / .393 / .630 / 10 homers / 45 ks / 12 walks

 

[Beavis606]

At least he's still cheap.

Baby Donkey ($400,000) x 20 = Big Donkey ($8,000,000)

 

[WildcatDJ]

This article seems to suggest he's been unlucky with his BABIP.

Jason Grey - ESPN.com

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
Baby Donkey is still young and he doesn't have Whiffey or Fat Donkey around any longer to teach him any more bad habits.

Now you're just making excuses. In case you haven't noticed, Jay Bruce didn't have Adam Dunn or Ken Griffey around to "teach him any more bad habits" when he was a minor leaguer (and striking out 3x as often as he walked). And they aren't around now, either. He played with those guys for all of about 100 games last season. So don't put the blame on them. Hell, he could *learn* something from Adam Dunn --> how to take a walk. At no point in his professional career has he figured that out.

I completely understand he's young, but he has been the same hitter everywhere he's been as a professional = tons of ks, very few walks, lots of power.



Sorry, but Jay Bruce is who he is. And at every single similar age up to this point in their careers, Adam Dunn is/was a better ballplayer. In many cases, he is/was *significantly* better. Sorry, but it's true.



by the way....



ADunn (aaa - 55 games @ 21 years old) = .329 / .441 / .676 / 20 homers / 51 ks / 38 walks
Bruce (aaa - 49 games @ 21 years old) = .364 / .393 / .630 / 10 homers / 45 ks / 12 walks

Take those numbers and put them on your fantasy team all day for all I care but don't try to tell me that Fat Donkey is a better baseball player than Bruce.

Bruce can run, throw, and play the field.

 

[3 fan]

What I wonder is what happened to Bruce's running? Didn't he like steal 25 bases one year in minors?

 

[Beavis606]

6 SBs in rookie ball in 2005
19 SBs in A ball in 2006
8 steals in A/AA/AAA in 2007
8 steals in AAA last year before getting called up

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by 3 fan:
What I wonder is what happened to Bruce's running? Didn't he like steal 25 bases one year in minors?

Negative. But Adam Dunn did swipe 19 his rookie year. In his first 157 games, Jay Bruce has 7.


So, where are you clowns getting this info that Jay Bruce can run so well? Is this some sort of hidden talent that he's keeping bottled up inside of him for some reason??



Look, I'm as glas as anyone that we got rid of Adam Dunn. That was long overdue. But anyone who's defending Jay Bruce and criticizing Adam Dunn has their head completely shoved up their ass.

Jay Bruce is getting on base 29.6% of the time he comes to the plate this season. That is Jeff Francoeur bad. Adam Dunn's career on-base% = 38.2%.


You'd have to record an outfield assist every other game to make up for that lack of ability at the plate. TS.

 

[UK_Is_Good]

For someone who is only 22 and has just 156 big league games under his belt, it's way to early to say Jay Bruce sucks. That being said, he is really struggling right now.

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by 3 fan:
What I wonder is what happened to Bruce's running? Didn't he like steal 25 bases one year in minors?

Negative. But Adam Dunn did swipe 19 his rookie year. In his first 157 games, Jay Bruce has 7.


So, where are you clowns getting this info that Jay Bruce can run so well? Is this some sort of hidden talent that he's keeping bottled up inside of him for some reason??



Look, I'm as glas as anyone that we got rid of Adam Dunn. That was long overdue. But anyone who's defending Jay Bruce and criticizing Adam Dunn has their head completely shoved up their ass.

Jay Bruce is getting on base 29.6% of the time he comes to the plate this season. That is Jeff Francoeur bad. Adam Dunn's career on-base% = 38.2%.


You'd have to record an outfield assist every other game to make up for that lack of ability at the plate. TS.

Being able to run does not equal stolen bases. Covering ground in the outfield, going first to third on a hit, and hustling does equal ability to run. You continue to try to justify your argument with stats because that is what fantasy baseball players do. Watch the damn game. If you don't think Bruce can run better than Fat Donkey then I don't want to argue with you because it is pointless. We are a better team with Bruce on the field and Dunn gone period.

Jay Bruce was the number 1 prospect in baseball for a reason. Will he pan out? I don't know. I can only hope.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:

Being able to run does not equal stolen bases. Covering ground in the outfield, going first to third on a hit, and hustling does equal ability to run. You continue to try to justify your argument with stats because that is what fantasy baseball players do. Watch the damn game. If you don't think Bruce can run better than Fat Donkey then I don't want to argue with you because it is pointless. We are a better team with Bruce on the field and Dunn gone period.

Jay Bruce was the number 1 prospect in baseball for a reason. Will he pan out? I don't know. I can only hope.

Neither one of them are exactly speed demons. Yeah, Bruce is faster, but that's not exactly a skill that really sets him apart from Dunn (or most anyone else on the team, for that matter).



I may be overdoing it by saying "Jay Bruce sucks," but he has done very little at this point in his professional career to prove that he's capable of being a better player than Adam Dunn. Sorry, but it's true. And at least I can give you factual, statistical information to prove my point. All you can do is offer vague, mostly incorrect reasoning.


We Reds fans *hated* Adam Dunn. Couldn't get rid of him fast enough. And yet here "we" are bowing down to a guy who is essentially the same hitter, minus about 70 walks/year. Interesting.

Adam Dunn >>>>>>>> Jay Bruce

(and i have statistics to prove it, jive turkey)

 

[bigbluefattycat]

PTI stop watching box scores and watch the game. Teams lose playing softball players like Dunn. Bruce is a baseball player. Even when he doesn't hit he helps you in the field. There is not a number that measures ability to cover ground, arm strength, first to third on hit, or score from 2nd on a hit. There is a reason that Dunn has never played for a winner. If you want to argue that he has put up better fantasy stats go ahead you won't get an argument from me. If I am putting a real baseball team together that actually has to play defense and win I am taking Bruce all day long.

We got rid of Dunn for more than just his piss poor play. Stats don't win games. Players do.

 

[DK Cat]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
PTI stop watching box scores and watch the game. Teams lose playing softball players like Dunn. Bruce is a baseball player. Even when he doesn't hit he helps you in the field. There is not a number that measures ability to cover ground, arm strength, first to third on hit, or score from 2nd on a hit. There is a reason that Dunn has never played for a winner. If you want to argue that he has put up better fantasy stats go ahead you won't get an argument from me. If I am putting a real baseball team together that actually has to play defense and win I am taking Bruce all day long.

We got rid of Dunn for more than just his piss poor play. Stats don't win games. Players do.

I agree with you especially in baseball that stats can be very deceptive.

 

[ScaryEnigma]

This is going to get bashed but the Reds would be a better team with Dunn this year. Should the reds have signed him? probably not considering the money and being a small market team. I wish they would have tho. But the reds would have been a better team this year. Would have made the Reds a formidable lineup..maybe even scary instead of a very mediocre offense(even with votto) The problem was Griffey. He couldnt field or hit.

Dunn wasn't the reason the reds or the Nationals this year suck. It was pitching during his tenure with the Reds and the nationals are probably the worst ever.

And before fatty says the pitching sucked because because Dunn was in the outfield i will go ahead and reply with this here in this thread:

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by ScaryEnigma:
This is going to get bashed but the Reds would be a better team with Dunn this year. Should the reds have signed him? probably not considering the money and being a small market team. I wish they would have tho. But the reds would have been a better team this year. Would have made the Reds a formidable lineup..maybe even scary instead of a very mediocre offense(even with votto) The problem was Griffey. He couldnt field or hit.

Dunn wasn't the reason the reds or the Nationals this year suck. It was pitching during his tenure with the Reds and the nationals are probably the worst ever.

And before fatty says the pitching sucked because because Dunn was in the outfield i will go ahead and reply with this here in this thread:

Walt gave the keys to the clubhouse to Dunn when he traded Whiffey. That lasted a week. There is more to winning than just putting up numbers. Players win games. A stat aint ever won ish.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:

A stat aint ever won ish.

That's just stupid.

I'm not arguing that Adam Dunn is the man, or that I'd ever want him back in a Reds uniform, but I am saying his is decidedly more productive on a baseball field than Jay Bruce.

Bruce's on-base % is horrible this year. He's not even getting on base 30% of the time. That's Corey Patterson-esque right there.


If you want to *completely* ignore stats, that's fine. But there isn't a guy in all of baseball who gets on base 30% of the time that's worth a s***. Including Bruce right now.

 

[K-GAR]

PTI is spot on, Bruce is alarmingly gravitating toward a version of Adam Dunn who walks less and will end up with less power numbers.

He has zero plate discipline and swings and misses waaaaay too much.... at balls out of the zone at that, at least dunn watched those go by

OF assists are far from any indicator of defensive ability also, Bruce does have a great arm, but he's very very very average other than that defensively (did you also know that two of Bruce's assists were throws that got cut off and then the reds got a guy out in the rundown at another base, TS).

All that being said, he is 22 and he *might* turn into a .280, 30HR, 90+ RBI guy, but every single thing he has done professionally indicates we'll be seeing more like .250, 30 HR, 80 RBI....

even the year he absolutely busted out and became the number one prospect in baseball he had an OPS of .962, Dunn's final year in the minors ---> 1.116

 

[Jeff Drummond]

Dunn was always a very productive player in the only stats that mattered: scoring runs and driving them in.

His main "sin" (aside from allegedly being lazy) was being a good player instead of a great one.

 

[TCPUKChamps]

Bruce also has NOBODY hitting behind him for pitchers to fear.

Until he starts taking walks, because they are going to be there, he is not going to develop.

Fact is, hitting in front of Adam Rosales/Ramon Hernandez/Edwin Encarnacion/Ryan Hanigan means he isn't going to be seeing many fastballs.

 

[PTI (pti)]

^^

And Dunn hit in front of.....



....

If Bruce learns to take walks TODAY, it will be the first time in his entire life he's figured out how to do it. Seriously. I've got 5 years of statistics to prove it.


Bruce has *4* rbi this year off left-handed pitching. FOUR. I've lost my manual --> what part of "winning baseball" is that??

 

[Beavis606]

Jay Bruce: Bats, they are sick. I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. I ask Jobu to come, take fear from bats. I offer him cigar, rum. He will come.

George Grande: You know you might think about taking Jesus Christ as your savior instead of fooling around with all this stuff.

Jay Bruce: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.

George Grande: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

 

[corbin3wildcats]

Originally posted by sinker16:
Dude....he just turned 22. What a stupid post.

THIS^^^^ and fifty games into the season??? Bruce right now is trying to do too much and just needs to relax and make better contact. All the hype is starting to catch up with him. looks like he's trying to pull the ball all the time. He'll get there...
And to say he sucks is just ridiculous if u ask me.

 

[corbin3wildcats]

So PTI, heard you liked Jay Bruce...

 

[bigblue11]

Originally posted by Beavis13:
Jay Bruce: Bats, they are sick. I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. I ask Jobu to come, take fear from bats. I offer him cigar, rum. He will come.

George Grande: You know you might think about taking Jesus Christ as your savior instead of fooling around with all this stuff.

Jay Bruce: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.

George Grande: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

Jeff "Cowboy" Brantley: Yo, bartender! Jobu needs a refill!

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):
^^

And Dunn hit in front of.....



....

If Bruce learns to take walks TODAY, it will be the first time in his entire life he's figured out how to do it. Seriously. I've got 5 years of statistics to prove it.


Bruce has *4* rbi this year off left-handed pitching. FOUR. I've lost my manual --> what part of "winning baseball" is that??

It's not. That is why we got rid of Fat Donkey. Pitching and defense is winning baseball. Bruce plays D. Fat Donkey kills you with his d and he is an automatic out vs lefties.

Look up Fat Donkey's splits against lefties last year or rattle them off because you probably know the stats by heart.

 

[AfroGerman Santa]

Bruce has been very disappointing this year at the dish, for sure. Mainly because he's so damn impatient. First pitch swinging, 0-2 or 1-2 counts every time up. It's getting ridiculous.

He also needs to learn to shorten his swing to contact on 2 strike counts. Something fat donkey could never do. His swing is much better than Dunn's and has substantially fewer holes. A great approach will improve his avg by 30-40 points alone.

Having said that, he plays an absolute *stellar* right field. As good as you could ask, really.

Covers a ton of ground for a corner fielder and has a GD CANNON for an arm. I saw him have one assist this year (sitting in the right side stands with a great view of the play) that I didn't think he had a freaking prayer to pull off, yet he hosed the guy by a step and a half.

Dunn wouldn't have hit the cutoff man yet, True Story.

Combined with his great attitude and relentless hustle, I'd hardly call him a bust at this point. I really don't think he's *hurting* the team right now (something I thought Dunn did a LOT), but he should absolutely be helping them more.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Jay Bruce may be "young," but that excuse can only last so long. And that's also why I look back at their minor league #s. Bruce and Dunn both started their professional careers at 18 years old, and made it to the big club at the age of 21.

ADunn (343 games) = .304 / .425 / .525 / 63 home runs / 270 ks / 230 walks
Bruce (353 games) = .308 / .366 / .555 / 61 home runs / 339 ks / 125 walks



Look, I'm all about pitching and defense and moving runners over and small ball and sac flies and squeez plays and yada yada yada. But you cannot change the fact that...

- we all pretty much agree that Adam Dunn sucks
- and Jay Bruce has been decidely less productive at every single step of his professional career



By the way, he's now 5 for his last 43. All the defense in the world won't make up for that complete ineptitude.


And just curious, by why did everyone *despise* Adam Dunn so much for constantly striking out...


....yet Jay Bruce gets a pass? Is it okay to strike out all the effing time, as long as you hustle and have a cannon for an arm?


(hint: no)

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:

Look up Fat Donkey's splits against lefties last year or rattle them off because you probably know the stats by heart.

Adam Dunn is pretty awful in his career vs lefties.....



....but Jay Bruce is - you guessed it - even worse.



ADunn = .235 / .356 / .473 / 467 ks / 222 walks
Bruce = .186 / .267 / .293 / 63 ks / 18 walks



When there's a lefty on the mound, Jay Bruce is basically the 2nd pitcher. But go ahead and tell me those #s are irrelevant, too. Wanna try situational stats next, chief?

 

[UKandoit]

Jay Bruce is a 22 yr old, playing in his 1st full season in the majors, playing better defensively then Adam ever hoped to play, struggling at the plate yet on pace to hit 40+ dingers(quick, name me all the 22 yr olds who have hit 40 hrs in the history of mlb?)& also appears to have a good additude and is apparently a good teamate...yet some will already try to point to his failures. The kid is still learning and I'll think I'll wait before I decide to dismiss him as just another Dunn-like or less performer. Put it this way, put this kid on the trading block and watch em line up to get this guy. No way you can justifyably say this kid sucks at this point in his career.

 

[K-GAR]

Originally posted by UKandoit:
Jay Bruce is a 22 yr old, playing in his 1st full season in the majors, playing better defensively then Adam ever hoped to play, struggling at the plate yet on pace to hit 40+ dingers(quick, name me all the 22 yr olds who have hit 40 hrs in the history of mlb?)& also appears to have a good additude and is apparently a good teamate...yet some will already try to point to his failures. The kid is still learning and I'll think I'll wait before I decide to dismiss him as just another Dunn-like or less performer. Put it this way, put this kid on the trading block and watch em line up to get this guy. No way you can justifyably say this kid sucks at this point in his career.

I'll name you another 22 year who will *not* hit 40 HR's --> Jay Bruce, he will top out at about 30-35 MAX this year, he's not a 40 HR guy. DUnner also was perceived at this stage to have a great attitude and be a good teammate, Dunn morphed over hte next few years into the guy reds fans were so split on.

BOttom line is that Bruce is heading more and more down the line of Dunn minus the walks ---> not good.
This post was edited on 6/4 4:11 AM by K-GAR

 

[bigbluefattycat]

"Brandon Phillips was trying to compliment Laynce Nix after a great night where he hit two home runs, drove in four runs and saved a run with a nice left field catch in the Reds' 9-3 win.

But read this quote and see if you pick up on the veiled shot of the night:

"It's good to have a guy in left field that can hit the ball and who can catch the ball."

I guess Phillips doesn't miss Adam Dunn's lackluster defense in left field. By the way, the Nationals and Reds play each other next week in DC."

Mark Sheldon

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
"Brandon Phillips was trying to compliment Laynce Nix after a great night where he hit two home runs, drove in four runs and saved a run with a nice left field catch in the Reds' 9-3 win.

But read this quote and see if you pick up on the veiled shot of the night:

"It's good to have a guy in left field that can hit the ball and who can catch the ball."

I guess Phillips doesn't miss Adam Dunn's lackluster defense in left field. By the way, the Nationals and Reds play each other next week in DC."

"It's always hard ot judge clubhouse dynamics from the outside. But it's pretty clear the Reds' is working. Of the eight positions players who started Wednesday night, six had spent time in Triple-A last year. All they did was scored nine runs on 13 hits. "


And yet we still have people saying they want the Fat Donkey back. I have said it for at least 3 years now that we would be a better team without Whiffey and Fat Donkey. We get rid of them and the clubhouse is healthier and the defense is better. Better defense equals better pitching. Better pitching equals winning baseball. Winning is the only stat that matters Chief.

John Fay