You make me smile STL_Cat. The line is always clear: agree with you or be an idiot.
I choose to be an idiot! And that's OK. Hat tip.
Is Coach Cal Right About Ashton?
- Thread starter HICATFAN
- Start date
I choose to be an idiot! And that's OK. Hat tip.
The actual truth is...that there are far more fans (pumpers and others) who THINK they know basketball...and use UK fan (most educated basketball fan base) as a way to fortify their poor opinion
I’m not calling anyone an idiot here. I do think though that if anyone thinks Hagans has been playing elite on the ball defense over the last month to month and a half, they need to pay closer attention to what’s happening out there. It was the same last year, Hagans continuously got torched by quicker guards yet the narrative never changed.
His foul trouble usually happens because he can't stay in front of his man, and he grabs, or bumps them as they go past.
Ben, you aren't wrong. But you're not totally right.
Cal wants Ashton to jump passing lanes and take risks to steal. I think he gets most of his fouls reaching in.
Factor in the fatigue thing since he plays 35+ minutes.
Ya, 174 total career turnovers in 1821 minutes played. That is 1 per 10.46 mp. Averaging 1ast every 5.76mp. Career AtT ratio is 1.81 to 1.
Hagans has struggled lately with forcing passes. He giveth and he taketh away.
Still think he is a great PG overall.
Hagans has struggled lately with forcing passes. He giveth and he taketh away.
Still think he is a great PG overall.
I think lately teams are have been focusing on the kick out when he drives in the paint . They realize he's not going to beat them by scoring at the rim .
And he not only gets fouls this way, but when his man gets to the rim, it is getting our bigs in foul trouble, trying to clean up his mess. Fatigue may be a factor, late in the 2nd half, but he has been getting in foul trouble early in the first half, lately. I think the kid can be a good defender, and if he starts playing like he did in December, we can make a good run in the tournament. As he is, right now, we will not get as far as we should.
As for why he stays on Maxey and has nothing but praise for Hagans, there’s little mystery there. Cal is among the best motivators ever, and he long ago figured out which kid needs a kick and which kid responds only to praise, and everything in between. This was last week:
“Things I’ve done in the past (to motivate players), sometimes they don’t work and I gotta get away from that,” Calipari said. Against the Red Raiders, “I just said, ‘We’re going at you and if you want to win the game, you will, and if we lose it, I’m fine.’ So he went turnover, missed shot, turnover, gave up a 3, and I said, ‘You know what? Let’s win this game,’ and then I went away from him.”
So then this week at practice, the coach tried something different. He told the team a story about the 2014-15 season and how hard he’d been on eventual No. 1 pick Karl-Anthony Towns. When Calipari asked that team who he’d screamed at the most, everyone pointed at Towns, and Towns lifted his arms and puffed out his chest proudly, as if to say, “That’s right, me!” He treated Calipari’s unrelenting admonishment as a badge of honor. This guy must really think I can be something. But when Calipari asked Maxey’s teammates who he yells at the most and they all pointed at him, Maxey hung his head.
The difference in their reactions is everything.
“If a guy that cares about you, that loves you, is doing everything he can to help you for your future … and you can’t take the coaching or the aggressiveness, you probably are not ready,” Calipari said plainly after Wednesday night’s game. “But I think today was a big step.”
“Things I’ve done in the past (to motivate players), sometimes they don’t work and I gotta get away from that,” Calipari said. Against the Red Raiders, “I just said, ‘We’re going at you and if you want to win the game, you will, and if we lose it, I’m fine.’ So he went turnover, missed shot, turnover, gave up a 3, and I said, ‘You know what? Let’s win this game,’ and then I went away from him.”
So then this week at practice, the coach tried something different. He told the team a story about the 2014-15 season and how hard he’d been on eventual No. 1 pick Karl-Anthony Towns. When Calipari asked that team who he’d screamed at the most, everyone pointed at Towns, and Towns lifted his arms and puffed out his chest proudly, as if to say, “That’s right, me!” He treated Calipari’s unrelenting admonishment as a badge of honor. This guy must really think I can be something. But when Calipari asked Maxey’s teammates who he yells at the most and they all pointed at him, Maxey hung his head.
The difference in their reactions is everything.
“If a guy that cares about you, that loves you, is doing everything he can to help you for your future … and you can’t take the coaching or the aggressiveness, you probably are not ready,” Calipari said plainly after Wednesday night’s game. “But I think today was a big step.”
Did same for Tyler Ulis. Got threw out of roed game that year as well. To show how the pg could come back and win a tough game as coach on the floor
He defends on ball just fine. He really loves that steal. Same thing happens to shot blockers. Till they develop maturity, they swipe at every thing.
Some people just hate reality I guess. Fact is, the ball is in his hands more and he is the focal point of the opposing defense. That will impact your turnovers.
Dude, if your girlfriend is getting some Hagans on the side, you need to take that up with her. He’s just going for the steal.
So basically he has to cut down on the turnovers Larry Vaught imagines he has and then he’ll be fine.
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/individual/473
Not in the top 50 in turnover/ assist ratio. So how could he be the best?
I agree and appreciate him, but he’s not quite the person Cal keeps giving him credit for until his head stays in the game every game, and in my opinion until he realizes how important he is to get people good shots. The way he passes when we run whatever it is we run, leads me to believe he doesn’t quite get it. Is it me or does he rarely pass to a shooter with a crisp pass that is rhythm and in the right position for them to just catch and shoot?
It’s like you don’t even read the posts you reply to, you just argue to argue. I flat said at face value it’s true.
What I also said is it’s the nature of his turnovers that’s troubling. The unforced turnovers due to lack of focus or bad decisions are what is troubling.
Hagans is definitely not an "average" defender. What happens to Ashton is he overplays for the steal too much instead of getting down in to his defensive stance and staying in it. He's been gambling way too much the past 4 or 5 games. The Auburn game was really bad. He's not the best PG in the nation. He's definitely in the top 5-10 though because his defense can be dominant.
Except Tyler Ulis absolutely earned that, especially in the back half of his sophomore year by rarely if ever making bad decisions on the floor. Barely ever turned it over, almost always made the right play with the ball in his hands. In terms of coach on the floor, Ulis and Hagans aren’t on the same planet.
I think he's right. Hagans is just going through a lull. When he gets it right, he can dominate any guard in the country. Dude is built like a SEC running back. Rebounds really good at his position. Usually gets a steal or two a game. defends really well.
I have criticized his play, but I still believe he's the best in CBB.
I have criticized his play, but I still believe he's the best in CBB.
Or maybe he knows boosting his confidence is what is needed for a deep tournament run. Hagans does a lot of things to help this team.
The focal point of the opposing defense? Don’t know if you’ve been watching but he’s the fourth best offensive player we have. They don’t even guard him on the three or for any other jump shot.
I can’t with this guy. You’re just impossible to have reasonable discourse with.
You don’t know me, dude. I damn sure am not lazy.
I’ll be at the Vandy game on Tuesday night, with my 5 year old little guy. We’ll both be cheering our butts off and supporting Hagans and all the rest of our guys. But I’m not going to sugarcoat stuff on a discussion board.
Been debating whether to post my thoughts about Hagans in this thread because I know some will take it wrong. I think Hagans is a good kid, and he plays hard.Thats why this is hard to say, but here goes. There was one point in the game, don’t remember the time or even which half, think it was first half. But Maxey had the hot hand, and was tearing it up, and Hagans gets the ball at the left side and someone (I think Brooks) starts to set a pick. Hagans waves him off and called for a clear out. Then he drives into the lane head down into the defenders and throws up a terrible shot that missed badly, Didn’t give a chance to run anything for Maxey. Other time was the crazy pass to Maxey while he was engaged with Cal that sailed out of bounds. Hagans had to know what the situation was there, but he was pissed Cal was letting Maxey run the show, so he says here, go get it. He just didn’t seem to me to like that Maxey was doing pretty good running things. Not at all suggesting Hagans and Maxey have chemistry issues, just think Ashton is having jealousy issues. It happens. I believe he is pressing too hard trying to impress NBA scouts, and it’s hurting his game. I really hope he makes an NBA roster eventually, but he isn’t ready for that yet.
Hagans is one of those guys that would be absolutely incredible as a junior and senior. Probably won’t get to see it but as a sophomore he’s great but is maddening with lots of ups and downs. Loses focus, does some circus passes, just silly stuff. His shot still isn’t consistent, and he has trouble finishing at the rim. All things very fixable with experience. We used to call it the “sophomore slump”, and I remember Keith Bogans going through it. Unfortunately for us college basketball isn’t that way anymore, hopefully he can put it together in March.
I agree with everything you said. That’s why I wish people wouldn’t be so quick to compare people to Ulis. While he may not haves panned out in the pros, as far as college goes he’s the best true overall point guard in college we have had in the Cal area. Some may roast me for saying that, but just my opinion.
Hagans has played poorly the last 3 games. Not just shooting, but careless with the ball. Honestly, I get the sense that he's going through a little bit of fatigue and hitting the wall. He will be fine.
Maybe you’ll be lucky enough to sit close to someone that can explain to your little guy that who shoots and misses is not the most important thing in a game. I hope he has a great time.
Since when has offensive value been determined by jump shot alone. Hagans offensive value is determined by how he uses the other four to beat your ass. He uses the hell out of Richards.
Sorry it takes a practiced eye to see more than who hits shots.
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I think Cal knows Hagans is every bit as hard on himself if not more so...
Just needs to be confident and decisive to run a team. Now isn’t the time to start questioning yourself. Just cut down the easy turnovers and keep bringing pressure all game long. Hagans is like a boxer. By the time we get to final rounds he really starts making his money.
When he plays smart and plays to get people easy shots he’s amazing, when he’s over aggressive he’s bad. He needs to find that balance between knowing when to try and score, when to get his teammates more involved while still being aggressive on defense.
Cal knows who he needs to pump up and who he doesn’t, he’s a master at that. Quick is the type who’s quite and goes about his business. Not the type who needs hype. Ashton obviously is up and down and maybe needs that push to get the best out of him.
