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If Vick commits does Murray stay put?

Murray is a better player than any of those other guys except Briscoe. That isn't to say they aren't good players, because they are. But anyone who saw the Nike Hoops Summit knows that Murray has more natural tools and a higher ceiling. Ennis will not scare Murray away from Oregon, and Ulis will not scare him away from Kentucky. I doubt Murray will be scared away by Briscoe either, since Murray is bigger and just as talented. I think Murray will go wherever he wants to go. Wherever he goes, there will be competition. A far bigger question is whether Murray will be able to reclassify. The answer to that question is still far from clear. Even though that would be convenient from the standpoint of UK's immediate needs, it is very unlikely that UK will be the sole factor in whether Murray reclassifies. But whether Murray goes in 2015 or 2016, he is plenty good enough to play wherever he wants.
Alright, maybe I'm not being clear. I agree with what you're saying. All I'm saying is that if someone believes that Ennis will scare Murray away from Oregon, then Ulis and Briscoe would also scare Murray away from UK, since both are better than Ennis. That's it. For the record, I don't believe this is the case. I was pointing out the faulty logic that caneintally used.
 
do yall really think for one second that Cal doesnt take vick and Murray? Vick is a multiyear player who will get some time at the 3. Murray is a future Lottery pic who has NBA range and a high quick release he is something we havent had in e while a guard who is just as deadly from 3 as he is driving to the basket! Cal takes Murray no matter what! he is that good! he has virtually no weakness
 
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It's not just about offense. Ulis at 5'9" and Briscoe at 6'"3, Not sure Murray, a lifelong pg/sg would be too keen on defending division 1 opposing small forwards for an entire season.

Not much difference in guarding the 2 and 3 for most college teams. The 3 is usually just a big guard.

Look at the starting 3's in the Elite Eight this year:

*Duke- Jones (6'5 guard).
*Gonzaga- Wesley (6'4 guard).
*MSU- Valentine (6'5 guard).
*UofL- Blackshear (6'5 guard)
UK- Lyles (6'10 forward)
*ND- Vasturia (6'5 guard)
Wisconsin- Dekker (6'9 forward)
Arizona- Hollis-Jefferson (6'7 forward)

*Five out of eight started a guard, including a Final Four team and the champs.

Then the list of teams starting guards at the 3 spot just grows as you talk about the Sweet Sixteen teams and tournament teams.

So I don't think Murray should worry much about it.

Plus, Briscoe is almost 6'4. He weighs 215 lbs. and that's muscle. He has a 6'8 wingspan. He is an excellent defender. I wouldn't be surprised to see him guard the 3 a lot because of his strength and length.

If we face a big, physical SF that is hurting our smaller guards, then we move Poythress over to the 3.
 
Personally don't think Cal will over crowd a roster. Last year was the exception, not the rule. The frontcourt is a little thin, but it was most every year he's been here. If Vick commits. I don't think Murray will come this year, or vice versa. Right now UK has Skal, Lee, Poy, and Willis(sort of) for post players. Maybe Matthews could in a pinch. The perimeter is pretty set IMO if Vick or Murray comes, or if neither comes.
 
we have 4 ships open so there is plenty to go around . I just don't know if Murray is going to care what a SF does . Now a pg who is proven ( enis going to Oregon ) has a direct effect on him. Both Vick and Murray have spots totally open for them . Especially since if we dont add another big i think we at times will run 4 guards/SF and a big . I could see a line up of Ulis/Briscoe/Murray or Matthews / Mulder or Vick and one of the 3 real bigs.
We have plenty of scholarships but we all know that Cal will only add one more wing...

If we get 2 more players (which I doubt) then one of them is gonna be a big.
 
My concern with Murray not reclassifying is that could also mean he's interested in Duke, after the other point guard they landed that reclassified, name escapes, leaves after next season.
And JRPROSS, please remove the booger swipe. I have to pass over every one of your comments because of it.


If Murray does not reclassify then we will probably never see him in college at all. He would more than likely enter the draft in 2016.
 
Personally don't think Cal will over crowd a roster. Last year was the exception, not the rule. The frontcourt is a little thin, but it was most every year he's been here. If Vick commits. I don't think Murray will come this year, or vice versa. Right now UK has Skal, Lee, Poy, and Willis(sort of) for post players. Maybe Matthews could in a pinch. The perimeter is pretty set IMO if Vick or Murray comes, or if neither comes.
Under no circumstances will Willis or Matthews ever be college post players. And I am not sure the perimeter is set.
 
Just a friendly FYI, if you prefer, assume that I am making this all entirely up...

LaGerald Vick has ELITE level athleticism and has a superb knack for the "intangibles" that coaches love.

What everyone needs to understand though, is that he is ranked #61 on 247 and #137 on Rivals, instead of a 5 star player, for the CLASS OF 2016 for a reason.

We have become so spoiled by Cal's out of this world recruiting, that we assume if a player is coming to UK, he is going to be an instant star.

That is NOT the case with Vick.

Basically, here is the story with LaGerald Vick. Larry Brown recruited him extremely hard, offered him a scholarship, and advised him that he needed a year of prep school to improve the "fluidity" in his game.

He is certainly not a bad player. He just seems to be "clumsy" with his game at times. Almost like he is still growing into his body. He will not be able to rely on his athleticism alone in the college game and will need to be taught how to play defense at a high level.

Up until a month ago, Vick was heading to prep school and happy as hell to be going to SMU in 2016.

Suddenly at a tournament, a couple coaches thought that he may be worth taking a flyer on in the 2015 class. This THRILLED LaGerald.

2 of the schools that liked him were Kansas and Kentucky. Vick was not only shocked, but star struck. From Prep School and SMU in 2016 to Kansas or Kentucky in 2015!

Self is selling him on what he was able to do with Ben McClemore, a somewhat similar player in his eyes. Taking a player with ELITE athleticism but not much else as an incoming FR, working with him as he sat out for the year, and getting him drafted 7th. Self is hoping to develop him in a similar way and have Vick ready in time to replace Seldon when he leaves after this season (Most likely)

Cal is giving his normal "UK is not for everyone", be prepared to play the best players day in and day out, speach. Vick seems to be connecting more with Cal and would have probably already committed if his re-classification documentation was good to go. He has an offer on the table once he get's 100% good to go for the 2015 class.

Cal and the other coaches do not see Vick supplanting Briscoe, Mulder, Matthews, or even Willis for minutes. Vick is more than fine with that situation. In his mindset he was about to attend PREP SCHOOL for a year. He is ready to work his butt off to improve his game and get on the court ASAP, but will not be disappointed sitting on the bench . Cal has him convinced that practicing against ELITE COLLEGE players like Briscoe, Mulder, and Matthews will help his development IMMENSELY more than attending prep school.

Cal thinks that after working out his kinks this year he will be a force to be reckoned with on the wing next season. Especially in the dribble drive. You cannot teach athleticism like Vick possesses. He has the potential to be able to take ANYONE straight off the dribble to the hoop 1 on 1. This makes him a really intriguing recruit to Cal and TONS of other coaches out there, but none of them expect him to come out and start as a FR.

After explaining all of that, let me ASSURE YOU 100% that his recruitment has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jamal Murray's.

If Jamal Murray reclassifies and ends up at UK (Somewhat of a long shot on both matters), he will be inserted into our rotation from day one and play 25-30 minutes a game along with Ullis, Briscoe, Matthews, and Mulder at the 1, 2, and 3.

Murray knows this and has been re assured of it MULTIPLE times.

LaGerald Vick will NOT suddenly go from heading to prep school to taking minutes away from 1 of the top 10 players in all of high school. Vick knows this and so does Murray.

It'd be similar to the commitment of Derek Willis scaring off Julius Randle. No offense to Willis, obviously.

The recruitment of LaGerald Vick and Jamal Murray will not affect each other AT ALL.

Kentucky/Cal is still hoping to sign TWO players to help improve the competition in practice at the very least. Vick would be a PERFECT player in that capacity and that is why he is being recruited. For that competition and a great chance for a future "reward" in an elite caliber wing, something which is REALLY rare to come by in today's game.

I apologize if this post came off too "windy". I just wanted to explain to you guys exactly what I know. Felt that I should after reading posts stating it is an either/or situation, when that is certainly not the case here.

It is REALLY RARE for me to have a connection to a recruit UK is after, but I lucked out in that regard when it comes to LaGerald due to reasons I cannot mention.

I hope that you enjoy reading my explanation and it is informative enough to answer any questions you might have had.

Again though, please feel free to assume that everything I am saying is a complete fabrication in my mind. Put a big fat ALLEGEDLY in front of every sentence, HA HA!

GO BIG BLUE!
 
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Great post. You have done your homework. I agree 110%. Wherever he goes he's a work in progress, he's no McLemore or MKG. He would give us athleticism and stability being more than a year or two letterman. Muarry comes in, instant pt regardless, he's that good
 
I'd feel a whole lot better about your "connection" if you could spell his name right.
 
Even if your connection is genuine and your info correct, I am more interested in your statement that Murray's reclassification is a "longshot", as is the chance he ends up at UK. Why are either a longshot?
 
I'd feel a whole lot better about your "connection" if you could spell his name right.

LOL! I JUST noticed it was autocorrecting it to that. I came back to fix it. The person I know would not have been pleased either. Haha!

AGAIN, as pointed out by Cat Ballou, the services and everyone else have it WRONG. It is LaGerald Vick not LeGerald Vick.
 
That makes perfect sense. I was wondering what the inside scoop was on why he was being pursued with adding Murray still being a real possibility. Thanks!
 
LOL! I JUST noticed it was autocorrecting it to that. I came back to fix it. The person I know would not have been pleased either. Haha!

AGAIN, as pointed out by Cat Ballou, the services and everyone else have it WRONG. It is LaGerald Vick not LeGerald Vick.

I buy your vick info but how do u know about vick being a long shot to reclass?
 
Even if your connection is genuine and your info correct, I am more interested in your statement that Murray's reclassification is a "longshot", as is the chance he ends up at UK. Why are either a longshot?

I do not know any more than anyone else about Jamal Murray and his recruitment. I consider it a long shot because we have not heard for sure that he is re-classifying to 2015 yet, we have not heard that he will be visiting UK yet, and his family is being so tight lipped that nobody really seems to know anything at all about him.

All we know is that Cal likes him, has offered, and has communicated with him that there is room for him on UK's 2015 team.

That is my reasoning for considering it a long shot. Certainly not out of the question. It might happen. By calling it a long shot, I am showing that I am more of a pessimist than an optimist by nature. Ha ha!
 
Actually, Jamal Murray is playing it exactly how I would in his shoes. All of the hype around a recruitment, then signing a LOI on an arbitrary day is stupid.

Murray can pick his class. He can pick his school. He can show up this summer, complete enrollment and will be a key player on any team he wants. There's zero reason for him to do anything other than what he is.
 
Ok, McLemore was a top 40 recruit with bad grades. That is the only reason he didnt play so Self could "develop" him.
 
Ok, McLemore was a top 40 recruit with bad grades. That is the only reason he didnt play so Self could "develop" him.

Yes, you are entirely correct about McClemore. The reason for his RS was grades. As far as him being a similar player in Self's eyes when it comes to development....

Here is a GREAT free article about LaGerald that came from Rivals when he commited to SMU. It compliments what I have shared REALLY well. Larry Brown had a similar evaluation as Bill Self.

https://smu.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1695700
 
This is what I thought from the moment we started looking at Vick. I just figured that he was a long-term investment.

Right now, I think our lineup is set, unless Murray reclassifies:

Starters
G Ulis- 30-35mpg.
G Briscoe- 30-35mpg.
G Matthews (or Mulder)- 15-20mpg
F Poythress- 25-30mpg
F Labissiere- 25-30mpg

Key Reserves
F Lee- 25-30mpg
G Mulder (or Matthews)- 15-20mpg

We will have four surefire starters and a sixth man playing starter minutes. We have two role players to rotate in at the 3 spot (unless one emerges as being head and shoulders above the other).

Vick joins Hawkins, Willis, and Floreal on the bench.

That's 11 scholarships. Murray would make 12. The last scholarship is left open in case Wynyard comes in after Christmas (I don't expect him to play, but I think he probably arrives on campus to start classes and practice).

If Maker also decides he wants to come, then Wynyard is probably encouraged to wait until June to come or Floreal goes back to walkon status. I don't see that happening, though.

Right now adding Vick should not hurt us in any way, since we have plenty of scholarships and he is not expected to play much (if any at all) this season.
 
bucsrule8872, EXACTLY my point. You are on the right track.

Look for a decision to be made REAL soon. Vick is at K-State this weekend, Kansas on Wednesday (A mid week visit... should give you a hint), and Kentucky next weekend.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/08/former-smu-2016-commitment-sets-three-visits/

Here is my FAVORITE quote concerning LaGerald that I was recently pointed to. From his AAU coach, Good 'Ole Norton Hurd...
"Hurd said Vick is firmly committed, adding, “It would have to be an earthquake or something” for him to decommit."
http://smu.scout.com/story/1471867-lagerald-vick-talks-smu-commitment

Coach Calipari, the EARTHQUAKE of recruiting! LOL!

Anything can happen, I am not going to "guarantee" anybody that LaGerald will be in the blue and white next year, but it would be a surprise to a lot of people if he isn't at this point.

EVERYTHING I post concerning LaGerald or the Vick family should be taken with a grain of salt, if you prefer. I know that over the years there has been a TON of people with "inside info". To the point that I do not even believe them. So, I do not blame anybody for thinking I am completely full of crap on all of this.
 
Given what you said in your previous post, even if he does come to UK, it doesn't sound like he will be a contributor this season, even if Murray doesn't come. If that is accurate, then I am not very invested in whether he commits or not.
 
EclipsingYou thanks for the post. I was wonder if Vick's recruitment would hurt our chances with Murray. Thanks for the information. I would love to see UK get both of these young men. We just need to trust Cal in building this team.
 
Just a friendly FYI, if you prefer, assume that I am making this all entirely up...

LaGerald Vick has ELITE level athleticism and has a superb knack for the "intangibles" that coaches love.

What everyone needs to understand though, is that he is ranked #61 on 247 and #137 on Rivals, instead of a 5 star player, for the CLASS OF 2016 for a reason.

We have become so spoiled by Cal's out of this world recruiting, that we assume if a player is coming to UK, he is going to be an instant star.

That is NOT the case with Vick.

Basically, here is the story with LaGerald Vick. Larry Brown recruited him extremely hard, offered him a scholarship, and advised him that he needed a year of prep school to improve the "fluidity" in his game.

He is certainly not a bad player. He just seems to be "clumsy" with his game at times. Almost like he is still growing into his body. He will not be able to rely on his athleticism alone in the college game and will need to be taught how to play defense at a high level.

Up until a month ago, Vick was heading to prep school and happy as hell to be going to SMU in 2016.

Suddenly at a tournament, a couple coaches thought that he may be worth taking a flyer on in the 2015 class. This THRILLED LaGerald.

2 of the schools that liked him were Kansas and Kentucky. Vick was not only shocked, but star struck. From Prep School and SMU in 2016 to Kansas or Kentucky in 2015!

Self is selling him on what he was able to do with Ben McClemore, a somewhat similar player in his eyes. Taking a player with ELITE athleticism but not much else as an incoming FR, working with him as he sat out for the year, and getting him drafted 7th. Self is hoping to develop him in a similar way and have Vick ready in time to replace Seldon when he leaves after this season (Most likely)

Cal is giving his normal "UK is not for everyone", be prepared to play the best players day in and day out, speach. Vick seems to be connecting more with Cal and would have probably already committed if his re-classification documentation was good to go. He has an offer on the table once he get's 100% good to go for the 2015 class.

Cal and the other coaches do not see Vick supplanting Briscoe, Mulder, Matthews, or even Willis for minutes. Vick is more than fine with that situation. In his mindset he was about to attend PREP SCHOOL for a year. He is ready to work his butt off to improve his game and get on the court ASAP, but will not be disappointed sitting on the bench . Cal has him convinced that practicing against ELITE COLLEGE players like Briscoe, Mulder, and Matthews will help his development IMMENSELY more than attending prep school.

Cal thinks that after working out his kinks this year he will be a force to be reckoned with on the wing next season. Especially in the dribble drive. You cannot teach athleticism like Vick possesses. He has the potential to be able to take ANYONE straight off the dribble to the hoop 1 on 1. This makes him a really intriguing recruit to Cal and TONS of other coaches out there, but none of them expect him to come out and start as a FR.

After explaining all of that, let me ASSURE YOU 100% that his recruitment has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jamal Murray's.

If Jamal Murray reclassifies and ends up at UK (Somewhat of a long shot on both matters), he will be inserted into our rotation from day one and play 25-30 minutes a game along with Ullis, Briscoe, Matthews, and Mulder at the 1, 2, and 3.

Murray knows this and has been re assured of it MULTIPLE times.

LaGerald Vick will NOT suddenly go from heading to prep school to taking minutes away from 1 of the top 10 players in all of high school. Vick knows this and so does Murray.

It'd be similar to the commitment of Derek Willis scaring off Julius Randle. No offense to Willis, obviously.

The recruitment of LaGerald Vick and Jamal Murray will not affect each other AT ALL.

Kentucky/Cal is still hoping to sign TWO players to help improve the competition in practice at the very least. Vick would be a PERFECT player in that capacity and that is why he is being recruited. For that competition and a great chance for a future "reward" in an elite caliber wing, something which is REALLY rare to come by in today's game.

I apologize if this post came off too "windy". I just wanted to explain to you guys exactly what I know. Felt that I should after reading posts stating it is an either/or situation, when that is certainly not the case here.

It is REALLY RARE for me to have a connection to a recruit UK is after, but I lucked out in that regard when it comes to LaGerald due to reasons I cannot mention.

I hope that you enjoy reading my explanation and it is informative enough to answer any questions you might have had.

Again though, please feel free to assume that everything I am saying is a complete fabrication in my mind. Put a big fat ALLEGEDLY in front of every sentence, HA HA!

GO BIG BLUE!
Excellent post!!

After reading this, I think that you're right.

I really do want Vick and I think that his value as a practice player this year would be immeasurable.
 
Appreciate that post Eclipse. Kind of surprised you said that Murray reclassifying is a long shot? I thought it was very probable that he would reclassify. And IF he does, just looking at rosters of the other teams and the importance of him wanting to win big, we seem like the best fit for his skill set and winning games.
 
Just a friendly FYI, if you prefer, assume that I am making this all entirely up...

LaGerald Vick has ELITE level athleticism and has a superb knack for the "intangibles" that coaches love.

What everyone needs to understand though, is that he is ranked #61 on 247 and #137 on Rivals, instead of a 5 star player, for the CLASS OF 2016 for a reason.

We have become so spoiled by Cal's out of this world recruiting, that we assume if a player is coming to UK, he is going to be an instant star.

That is NOT the case with Vick.

Basically, here is the story with LaGerald Vick. Larry Brown recruited him extremely hard, offered him a scholarship, and advised him that he needed a year of prep school to improve the "fluidity" in his game.

He is certainly not a bad player. He just seems to be "clumsy" with his game at times. Almost like he is still growing into his body. He will not be able to rely on his athleticism alone in the college game and will need to be taught how to play defense at a high level.

Up until a month ago, Vick was heading to prep school and happy as hell to be going to SMU in 2016.

Suddenly at a tournament, a couple coaches thought that he may be worth taking a flyer on in the 2015 class. This THRILLED LaGerald.

2 of the schools that liked him were Kansas and Kentucky. Vick was not only shocked, but star struck. From Prep School and SMU in 2016 to Kansas or Kentucky in 2015!

Self is selling him on what he was able to do with Ben McClemore, a somewhat similar player in his eyes. Taking a player with ELITE athleticism but not much else as an incoming FR, working with him as he sat out for the year, and getting him drafted 7th. Self is hoping to develop him in a similar way and have Vick ready in time to replace Seldon when he leaves after this season (Most likely)

Cal is giving his normal "UK is not for everyone", be prepared to play the best players day in and day out, speach. Vick seems to be connecting more with Cal and would have probably already committed if his re-classification documentation was good to go. He has an offer on the table once he get's 100% good to go for the 2015 class.

Cal and the other coaches do not see Vick supplanting Briscoe, Mulder, Matthews, or even Willis for minutes. Vick is more than fine with that situation. In his mindset he was about to attend PREP SCHOOL for a year. He is ready to work his butt off to improve his game and get on the court ASAP, but will not be disappointed sitting on the bench . Cal has him convinced that practicing against ELITE COLLEGE players like Briscoe, Mulder, and Matthews will help his development IMMENSELY more than attending prep school.

Cal thinks that after working out his kinks this year he will be a force to be reckoned with on the wing next season. Especially in the dribble drive. You cannot teach athleticism like Vick possesses. He has the potential to be able to take ANYONE straight off the dribble to the hoop 1 on 1. This makes him a really intriguing recruit to Cal and TONS of other coaches out there, but none of them expect him to come out and start as a FR.

After explaining all of that, let me ASSURE YOU 100% that his recruitment has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jamal Murray's.

If Jamal Murray reclassifies and ends up at UK (Somewhat of a long shot on both matters), he will be inserted into our rotation from day one and play 25-30 minutes a game along with Ullis, Briscoe, Matthews, and Mulder at the 1, 2, and 3.

Murray knows this and has been re assured of it MULTIPLE times.

LaGerald Vick will NOT suddenly go from heading to prep school to taking minutes away from 1 of the top 10 players in all of high school. Vick knows this and so does Murray.

It'd be similar to the commitment of Derek Willis scaring off Julius Randle. No offense to Willis, obviously.

The recruitment of LaGerald Vick and Jamal Murray will not affect each other AT ALL.

Kentucky/Cal is still hoping to sign TWO players to help improve the competition in practice at the very least. Vick would be a PERFECT player in that capacity and that is why he is being recruited. For that competition and a great chance for a future "reward" in an elite caliber wing, something which is REALLY rare to come by in today's game.

I apologize if this post came off too "windy". I just wanted to explain to you guys exactly what I know. Felt that I should after reading posts stating it is an either/or situation, when that is certainly not the case here.

It is REALLY RARE for me to have a connection to a recruit UK is after, but I lucked out in that regard when it comes to LaGerald due to reasons I cannot mention.

I hope that you enjoy reading my explanation and it is informative enough to answer any questions you might have had.

Again though, please feel free to assume that everything I am saying is a complete fabrication in my mind. Put a big fat ALLEGEDLY in front of every sentence, HA HA!

GO BIG BLUE!
Thanks for your post sounds like perfect sense to me, these tidbits are what I enjoy seeing.
 
If Vick makes it through his visit before Murray decides what he wants to do, then I think that Vick should get the scholarship.
Murray knows that UK is courting Vick, so if he sits back and slow plays us then I'm fine with letting him go elsewhere.
If Murray wants to come to UK then all he has to do is visit and accept.


Well said.
 
Those guards are going to be playing 3 positions though. They'll be our wings next year and Murray would probably only be around one year. Vick would probably get some minutes but he'd more likely contribute as an upperclassman. I wouldn't be surprised if Cal was willing to take both.


If he comes to UK it wont be to contribute as an upperclassmen
 
Admittedly, I know very little about Vick. I know he's about 6-5, and I think I read that he was pretty athletic and pretty good offensively. If that's the case, yes, he would be pretty much like Mulder.

Personally, I don't think we need Vick, but I'm also saying that because I know pretty much nothing about him. I think our guards/wings are fine right now. Murray is someone you take because he's a game changer, but if Cal really wants to add one more wing player this year, I think you have to take the first one ready to commit. You know what they say, "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush."


"Admittedly, I know very little about Vick"

"I don't think we need Vick"

"I know pretty much nothing about him"


This is 99% of our posters, I know nothing, but I will give you my totally biased opinion. At least brdmn22 discloses this upfront! The rest of the folks leave out the "I really don't know sh!t part" and come across as the mel kiper of recruiting. Love it.
 
I just hope we get Vick. I think Murray stays 2016, but at any rate, I'd love to have vick. We really need another player capable of contributing on the roster. As is, foul trouble or knock on wood a season ending injury or some sort of suspension and this team just wouldn't likely have enough depth to do jack shit. I love the guys we have but I think it would be huge to get another guy capable of stepping in and contributing.
 
Not to say he would be a starter, but good to have an extra athletic body to work on and add depth. Same thing if we were to get instead or also add the PF that decommitted from fla today. Another big body, top 100 PF for depth would be great.
 
I obviously don't know much about Vick, but by all accounts, he's a tremendous athlete with huge upside.

We desperately need a few more players this season to have competitive practices and there is a great chance that Vick could flourish in a few years at UK.

I see no reason to NOT want him...
 
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