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If Toppin can’t hit 3’s

OmahaCats

Sophomore
Apr 10, 2020
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Then our offense will continue to look as brutal as it did tonight. He has to be able to show he can shoot from the outside. Not having a stretch 4, doesn’t give the offense any spacing.
I would say our best 5 for producing offense is Wallace, Frederick, Reeves, Toppin, and Oscar. Collins is just awful. Having him and Ware on the court at the same time is a disaster.
 
Then our offense will continue to look as brutal as it did tonight. He has to be able to show he can shoot from the outside. Not having a stretch 4, doesn’t give the offense any spacing.
I would say our best 5 for producing offense is Wallace, Frederick, Reeves, Toppin, and Oscar. Collins is just awful. Having him and Ware on the court at the same time is a disaster.
No reason Collins should ever see the floor.
 
The games in the Bahamas didn't mean anything. Toppin wasn't asked to guard. he could just go out there and play street ball and showtime.

He is what he is. He will make shots when we're down 15 or up 15. 2-4 point game at crunch time and you will find his picture on a milk carton.
 
Then our offense will continue to look as brutal as it did tonight. He has to be able to show he can shoot from the outside. Not having a stretch 4, doesn’t give the offense any spacing.
I would say our best 5 for producing offense is Wallace, Frederick, Reeves, Toppin, and Oscar. Collins is just awful. Having him and Ware on the court at the same time is a disaster.
That lineup would produce the most opportunity to score but then you have little to no production off of the bench when starters need a breather. It might be time to realize that some of these guys just are what they are and it's not what we hoped they would be.
 
Toppin is shooting 18% from 3pt thus far

Toppin is a career 26% shooter from 3pt land in his career.

I had hoped he could be a 35% 3pt shooter for this year based upon Bahamas and more shots in the offense this year. That looks to be a false idea and he's looking like who he always has been. So we don't have a stretch 4 again and need to find a way to generate offense in spite of this.
 
That lineup would produce the most opportunity to score but then you have little to no production off of the bench when starters need a breather. It might be time to realize that some of these guys just are what they are and it's not what we hoped they would be.
True, but these 5 should all play 30 min. With 2-3 others playing limited minutes. The championship team basically played 6 guys all year. Wiltjer was the 7th man at 11 minutes a game
 
Toppin has never been a shooter. If someone was expecting him to magically become one his senior year then they are going to be disappointed. I like the kid but he's a role player. He will have some good games but can you really count on him against the really good teams? I'd love to be wrong.
 
Bizarre lineup combinations costs us more than Toppin's shooting.

There is no reason why Collins should be on the court with the likes of Ware, for one.

Ware shouldn't see the floor for more than a few minutes while Collins is a waste at the 4. It's double the offensive misery.
 
To the OP " IF" ? are you kidding me ? IF ? I'm 56 and 1/2 crippled .. but I would beat his ass in a game of Horse . ( look it up )
 
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I’d like to see how these players that “should never see the floor” would do with a competent coach
 
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I’d like to see how these players that “should never see the floor” would do with a competent coach

I can promise you this much: Damion Collins would not be receiving the ball from our alleged floor general 30 feet from the basket and then picking up his dribble.

Lance Ware would not be receiving the ball period until he learned how to shoot free throws.
 
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Toppin is shooting 18% from 3pt thus far

Toppin is a career 26% shooter from 3pt land in his career.

I had hoped he could be a 35% 3pt shooter for this year based upon Bahamas and more shots in the offense this year. That looks to be a false idea and he's looking like who he always has been. So we don't have a stretch 4 again and need to find a way to generate offense in spite of this.
Toppin just needs more time on the bench. That's really it. And a guy like Thiero, who can make open shots and make winning plays needs some run.
 
I can promise you this much: Damion Collins would not be receiving the ball from our alleged floor general 30 feet from the basket and then picking up his dribble.

Lance Ware would not be receiving the ball period until he learned how to shoot free throws.
Fair
 
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How many solid to good 3 point shooters at the 4 has UK had over the years?
Probably not many. BUT it sure is nice when a legit PF like PJ Washington can hit that shot and make defenses have to hedge out, right? Not as important as some other things you want from your PF, but nice to have. Current percentages notwithstanding, I think Toppin can hit that corner 3 well enough to take it when open. And I think Livingston can do the same, and also occasionally hit the 3 from that 45 deg. angle. Neither guy shoots it well enough to be even an average offensive college SF, but at PF I think both can be above-average shooters.
 
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How many solid to good 3 point shooters at the 4 has UK had over the years?
Very good:

Washington
Willis

Solid:

Wiltjer
Wenyan

Keep the D honest:

Jones was mediocre at shooting, but his handle was great

Willis was deadly when paired with Ulis. That guys brilliance at the point helped make Willis a star. Willis had a TS% over 70 alongside Ulis
 
Very good:

Washington
Willis

Solid:

Wiltjer
Wenyan

Keep the D honest:

Jones was mediocre at shooting, but his handle was great

Willis was deadly when paired with Ulis. That guys brilliance at the point helped make Willis a star. Willis had a TS% over 70 alongside Ulis
And Cal , ever the salesman , sold BBN that he just couldn't keep Derek on the floor , D was too bad ... the real meaning of that was he preferred the constantly lost own both ends Gabriel . 1/2 the trips down the floor a guy does score , right ? DW would get yanked if his guy scored .... everyone else who got scored on was over looked . NO DW was no lock down defender , but his offense did ( or would have ) made a larger difference on that team if Cal wouldnt have mind F'ed him constantly .
 
True, but these 5 should all play 30 min. With 2-3 others playing limited minutes. The championship team basically played 6 guys all year. Wiltjer was the 7th man at 11 minutes a game
I get what you are saying. But that 2012 team, the 8th guy (Vargas) was NOT good, there was a huge difference between #8 (Vargas) and #6 (Miller) or even #7 (Wiltjer). The later 2 played some in the NBA, and Vargas was worse than Ware. Whereas this year #8, 9 & even #10 aren't bad (I put Ware at #11), are not that much worse than #4, 5, 6 & #7. In fact I'm not sure we could all (or mostly) agree on the order to put them in after Oscar and maybe Wallace and Reeves. So when you sub in say Theiro for Wheeler, or Onyenso for Toppin, or Livingston for Fredrick, are you really losing much? I don't think so. So the key is to get the right combinations together, and the correct matchups, and play "the hot hand". And Cal is not good at those 3 things.
 
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Toppin has never been a shooter. If someone was expecting him to magically become one his senior year then they are going to be disappointed. I like the kid but he's a role player. He will have some good games but can you really count on him against the really good teams? I'd love to be wrong.
But he has good form. And he's not been a bad shooter (until now). So I'm still hoping he's just started out cold but will heat up. And there have been other Cats who started out not good shooters, but became good ones.
- Mashburn I think made 24% of his 3's as a FR, but was I think around 40% as a JR
- McCarty was attrocious when he arrived on campus, I would see him in Seaton center practicing 3's his Prop-48 year and he was BAD, and he too was a good 3pt shooter when he left
-Patterson I assume was bad, since was only 0-4 his first 2 years at UK, but made 35% (69 attempts) as a JR
- Liggins progressed from 23% to 32% to 39%
- Jasper from 21% (14 attempts) to 42% (37 attempts) in just 1 year
- Hawkins progressed from 14%, to 24%, to 28%, to respectable 34%
- PJ lept from 24% to 42%

His 1st 2 seasons, Toppin made 34.8%, but in only 23 attempts. If he could just match that 35% on say 100 attempts, I would be happy.
 
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Then our offense will continue to look as brutal as it did tonight. He has to be able to show he can shoot from the outside. Not having a stretch 4, doesn’t give the offense any spacing.
I would say our best 5 for producing offense is Wallace, Frederick, Reeves, Toppin, and Oscar. Collins is just awful. Having him and Ware on the court at the same time is a disaster.
If Toppin is not on his game then put Thiero in at the 4. He does a lot of good things, not just one or two. Get over this star stuff.
 
Exactly.

I know the competition is different, but an open 3 is an open 3 (regardless of the jersey on the other team)
Good defensive teams do not give us open threes, unfortunately. In transition is our best opportunity to get open threes. We just do not get enough of them with the right players taking them.
 
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Toppin is no Reeves or Frederick, but he can hit 3's. I see him pass up good looks every game. Needs to let it fly more often when he has a good look.
 
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