SIAP.
But If I was NW's coach I would've lost my damn mind and might have unalived that ref on the spot. Terrible call. Rewarding bad defense and screwing a kid out of a game tying shot.
I need an explanation. Why do CBB refs suck so much?
- Thread starter bbncal02
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SIAP.
But If I was NW's coach I would've lost my damn mind and might have unalived that ref on the spot. Terrible call. Rewarding bad defense and screwing a kid out of a game tying shot.
Yeah, that's a terrible call. At the very least, the shot counts. It should be an and-1. That should have not only tied the game, it should have given a free throw to potentially win it.
It's been bad for years and it's not me just whining about our games. Any given game you watch you'll see at least 2 or 3 very questionable calls, usually many more. Phantom foul calls when a player gets to the basket are the worst. Not sure if the speed of the game is too fast for the refs or what, but if it wasn't for UK's resurgence with Pope I'd never watch other games. But as bad as it is out of conference, it's even worse in the SEC.
That’s an and 1. They suck because I’m convinced some are on the take, especially with sports gambling so huge now. They are a frat who are all from the same towns or areas. They are a tight nit group with no oversight or accountability. If they legitimately had someone not involved with them or NCAA who had oversight powers a lot of this would stop and they would have to get better to keep a job.
Every single game has makeup calls too. Especially after one team does something stupid and gets a T and is on a run after a couple calls.
College refs make anticipatory calls more than any ref in any other sports. They also let home crowds during conference play dictate the calls they make.
Go to a high school game. You'll think college refs are great.
They sure do. Here’s Jamie Luckie instructing other refs on it in his seminar, “The Craft of Officiating” https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/jamie-luckie-and-kentucky.263353/page-2#post-6804184
When I think of how it’s common practice to do the following (according to Luckie’s own words in the video), it it cause for concern:
—mirror calls
—give the “little guy more latitude”
—believe it’s “my (the referee’s) game” A quote: “We dictate how the game is played. . . it’s not our fault they can’t shoot.”
—strategize to “hit” well-known coaches with technical fouls so the other guys will “stay out of your way”
—believe that the “only thing that matters is the last few minutes of the game”
—openly called Calipari’s behavior “not normal” (over the missed shot clock violation vs Wisconsin in 2015). Openly disparaged Coach K, as well.
When an official has no conscience about saying he’s “the difference between a 20 point win and a 40 point win” between an underdog and a blue blood, it tells you something. In the Dec 2014 game between Elon (62) vs. Duke (75) referenced in the video, it wasn’t an 18 point or 20 point win, it was actually a 13 point win. Did this “give the little guy more latitude” strategy have an impact on his officiating when UK played WVU in 2010, or Kansas State in 2018?
Having officiated HS games for a couple of years, here's my $0.02.
1. Sometimes, the ref is correct as their knowledge of the rules >>> 99.9% of the fans and 80% of the coaches. What the onlooker sees as a terrible call is sometimes the correct call, according to the rules.
2. Almost all of the officials are part-time, have real jobs outside of officiating and don't spend 40+ a week doing games.
3. Certainly at the lower levels, officials are not in good enough shape to be in position to make the proper call. From experience, being on the move and trailing a play means you're going to miss the call half the time.
4. Basketball has continuous action and there are 100s of decisions every minute that a ref has to make regarding blowing the whistle or not. There are always going to be mistakes.
5. As the level of ball increases, the games become more physical and refs are taught to allow more physicality. But, then each ref is tasked with a ton of judgement calls as to when is being physical a violation and you get inconsistency from one crew/ref to the next.
To make the officiating better, I believe adding a 4th or 5th official to drastically reduce the amount of running for each ref would help immensely. I believe it would reduce significantly the calls that are blown due to being out of position.
1. Sometimes, the ref is correct as their knowledge of the rules >>> 99.9% of the fans and 80% of the coaches. What the onlooker sees as a terrible call is sometimes the correct call, according to the rules.
2. Almost all of the officials are part-time, have real jobs outside of officiating and don't spend 40+ a week doing games.
3. Certainly at the lower levels, officials are not in good enough shape to be in position to make the proper call. From experience, being on the move and trailing a play means you're going to miss the call half the time.
4. Basketball has continuous action and there are 100s of decisions every minute that a ref has to make regarding blowing the whistle or not. There are always going to be mistakes.
5. As the level of ball increases, the games become more physical and refs are taught to allow more physicality. But, then each ref is tasked with a ton of judgement calls as to when is being physical a violation and you get inconsistency from one crew/ref to the next.
To make the officiating better, I believe adding a 4th or 5th official to drastically reduce the amount of running for each ref would help immensely. I believe it would reduce significantly the calls that are blown due to being out of position.
Of course it did, him and the roofer caused us to lose 4 huge games. 2 in the final 4 and 2 Elite 8 games we should have went to the final 4. Nobody wants to se these guys and they think they are the show. It’s a joke and he should never ref again. We need a control board over refs for real especially with gambling so huge now. They can literally determine a winner very easily.
Agree with most of your points. However referees at the D1 level or above should be mandated to be in physical shape if they want the job. They have replay and everything else to help make difficult calls. Maybe adding a 4th ref would help. Another thing is they should have to be accountable. Questions after the game, actual grading by an independent board with power to suspend or even fire them for incompetence. They should be regularly audited to make sure they aren’t taking money to rig a game as well. Also refs that have shown a bias to certain coaches shouldn’t be allowed to call those schools games anymore.
Simple! 💴 money!
I think there’s a lot of betting on the games by refs.
I believe Higgins built his retirement fund off us alone 😡
I think there’s a lot of betting on the games by refs.
I believe Higgins built his retirement fund off us alone 😡
I was about to post something about money/gambling in sports when I read your post. With all the on line gambling these days, there is no doubt it has found its way into the officiating.
You can take any job in this country and find a bad apple or two in every group.
It’s just no accountability.
They suffer no consequences for being bad.
Worst thing that happens to the worst officials is they get sent to the SEC.
They suffer no consequences for being bad.
Worst thing that happens to the worst officials is they get sent to the SEC.
Exactly this. There is no committee or board that reviews their games and reprimands bad calls, no suspensions or fines, no reviewing of financials to ensure they aren’t taking a cut from gambling somewhere.. They don’t have to answer to the media about their calls. They have no incentive to get better except for the NCAA tournament, which advances the “best refs” but even with that somehow what I consider to be terrible refs continue to the next rounds….
Just like officials in every other sport, the issue is no accountability. In baseball, look how long it took for Angel Hernandez to be gone. Even then, he retired on his own terms and the MLB never did anything for all the egregious sh*t he pulled as an ump. Higgins screwed us over big time the 2017 Elite 8, nothing. Pat Adams has been an awful ref for God knows how long, never held accountable. I feel like the moment you start firing these incompetent officials and start holding their feet to the fire, they will clean up their act.
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Here’s a post I made on another Thread after our game vs WKU on Tuesday:
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/this-western-ky-team.423273/#post-13339448
In summary, UK has very low winning percentages when two members of that officiating crew call our games: Kimble, now 50%, and Dorsey, now at 33.3% after the win. Notably, Kimble (along with Higgins) called our final game of 2017—the Elite 8 vs UNC—and Dorsey reffed the Double OT 2019 Elite 8 vs Auburn and 2024 NCAA matchup vs Oakland. It was quite the combination to have them join forces (there are just a handful of active referees—a total of 5, I think—who have called more than 2 of our games where UK wins only 50% or less of the time). Grateful we won by 19!
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Yep, and I'll add that it's also institutional. There are incriminating videos of referees conspiring to make bad calls and teaching others to do the same.
That should be a crime because they are influencing interstate commerce.
Fans have been complaining about the officiating in college basketball for YEARS!! Sadly it's been getting worse.
Off subject but I’m curious why you used “unalived” instead of killed? I’ve heard a few people use it lately and a few have acted like it was more appropriate. I see no distinction between the two but am genuinely curious why people prefer the term. Is it just a trend or is there some other reason?
I wish they would be more consistent. One game they seem to let the guys play and bump a bit and the next game, they call touch fouls that ruin the flow of the game and confuse the players.
Pitino used to tell his players to adjust to the refs calling of the game and recognize the way they were making calls. That is likely what Pope will do as well.
It's even worse when the first half if a game is allowed to be more physical and then the zebras change the way they calls fouls in the second half.
Its very frustrating for everyone.
Some of these preseason tournaments have allowed more physicality. They have so much more fun to watch.
I'm probably whizzing into the wind, but it sure be nice to see the refs calling the games consistently from start to finish.
Pitino used to tell his players to adjust to the refs calling of the game and recognize the way they were making calls. That is likely what Pope will do as well.
It's even worse when the first half if a game is allowed to be more physical and then the zebras change the way they calls fouls in the second half.
Its very frustrating for everyone.
Some of these preseason tournaments have allowed more physicality. They have so much more fun to watch.
I'm probably whizzing into the wind, but it sure be nice to see the refs calling the games consistently from start to finish.
I didn't bring this up the other night because I'm always bitching about refs.
Giving the little guy more latitude also applies to big leads. The other night Dayton had a 21 point lead and during North Carolina's comeback there were two and ones that were both fouls on the floor,well before the shot was taken. And to make the game more competitive they counted those and North Carolina made their free throws. North Carolina goes on to wind and those two plays were really big. The continuation on those would have made the NBA blush
That UCONN game was a perfect example. Hurley lost his mind and they Td him up.
Then called 5 straight touch fouls on the next 5 possessions. I mean touuuuch fouls out top with 25 seconds still on the clock.
Didn’t save them tho.
Joe B always said you couldn’t blow out SEC teams because the officials always started “helping” the team that was behind.
Whether it was true or not that was his perception.
Fans always think their team gets the short end.
It was interesting to hear a coach say that.
Whether it was true or not that was his perception.
Fans always think their team gets the short end.
It was interesting to hear a coach say that.
Just because there is a huge disparity does not mean the game wasn’t well called. Some teams are very physical and tend to foul more than others. Think of it this way… if the two teams each had 20 fouls called on them, it does t mean it was officiated well
Make up calls are a real thing.
Always have been. Many years ago I was defending in the paint. Guy came off a screen and plowed into me.
Ref called a blocking foul on me.
I didn’t raise hell with the ref but I asked him why he called that on me.
“You moved” was his reply. I said, yeah, I moved because he ran over me.
After the free throws I was inbounding the ball, same ref says “you’re right, I blew that call”
For the next 10 minutes of game action I probably could have just tripped them. He wasn’t calling anything on me. 😆
Always have been. Many years ago I was defending in the paint. Guy came off a screen and plowed into me.
Ref called a blocking foul on me.
I didn’t raise hell with the ref but I asked him why he called that on me.
“You moved” was his reply. I said, yeah, I moved because he ran over me.
After the free throws I was inbounding the ball, same ref says “you’re right, I blew that call”
For the next 10 minutes of game action I probably could have just tripped them. He wasn’t calling anything on me. 😆
I know it’s insane, same thing in the Indiana game. Mgbako elbowed a dude in the back of the head blocking him out. Instead of assessing Mgbako a F2 man ejecting him they called offsetting Technicals because the other guy had the nerve to say what the hell after he got elbowed. Then they call 4 straight touch fouls immediately after they get possession back to “control” the game.
I think officiating is harder than it looks.
IMO, it’s better to no call a foul than calling anticipated foul. Just call it the same on both ends.
IMO, it’s better to no call a foul than calling anticipated foul. Just call it the same on both ends.
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