How does Roy get his guys to stay?
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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A lot goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Could be pressure from boosters as in the "you owe us more than one season" type of thing. Boosters can be very influential using subtle pressure regarding future employment, family situations, etc. Just an opinion but it almost has to be something like that.
He probably just lies his ass off to them and somehow gets them to buy into his bullshit. But no matter, UNC is about to have some very tough times ahead in the talent department.
Because he gets guys that aren't OAD's, more along the lines of borderline OAD's, and convinces them to stay past a few years. As I said in the other thread, UNC had used the incentive game for decades. John wall doesn't need the incentives. He doesn't need to commit so his mother gets that 200,000 dollar job. He doesn't need to commit to have a free no class education. He doesn't need to commit because Roy will let him live in one of his houses, or for free cars, or for gifts from Michael Jordan. He's a made kid on his own.
Berry, Jackson, James, types aren't going pro off the bat. The incentives are enticing to stay in school.
Harrison Barnes committing to UNC and staying two years finished them with top 10 recruits for the most part. Roy wants this title because it's the end of the road for UNC for a long time.
Berry, Jackson, James, types aren't going pro off the bat. The incentives are enticing to stay in school.
Harrison Barnes committing to UNC and staying two years finished them with top 10 recruits for the most part. Roy wants this title because it's the end of the road for UNC for a long time.
What I've noticed:
....Roy's recruiting success was diminished by Cal, K, Self (and others)
....Accepting that reality, and then focusing on the best of the Leftovers (Fans accept 2nd best too)
....Freshmen are held back in playing time (unless needed)
....Brainwashing from Day 1 about the "path to success" following the Carolina Way
....Dumb unexplainable luck (kids making decisions that make zero sense)
....Roy's recruiting success was diminished by Cal, K, Self (and others)
....Accepting that reality, and then focusing on the best of the Leftovers (Fans accept 2nd best too)
....Freshmen are held back in playing time (unless needed)
....Brainwashing from Day 1 about the "path to success" following the Carolina Way
....Dumb unexplainable luck (kids making decisions that make zero sense)
The thing is, we get borderline one and dones and they still leave (whether NBA, development league or transfer because afraid they will get recruited over).
Cal lost control of his own created monster to an extent. It's so thick on the trail now I don't see anyway to stop it.
McAdoo and Barnes for one and dones that were conned/paid into staying. This year, Jackson is a very mysterious one.
The Carolina Way has worked for decades. UNC has a network that takes care of kids and have so many alumni in media all is positive. When was the last time you heard a "talking head" on TV say something negative about Carolina. If one does there are 10 that make him look like a fool. The Carolina Way has been in force since Frank Joseph McGuire.
His guys don't develop in one year like guys do under Cal but I understand your point that he don't lose guys who aren't ready like we have with Dakari, Orton, probably Briscoe, etc. Maybe he recruits guys who are more financially stable I'm not sure.
Sawnee, your exactly right. UNC never paid kids to come, up front, but they always took care of them after graduating. They would let them work basketball camps, etc. The system has been in place since Dean Smith was the coach, and as you say, even before. Roy doesn't push them to the NBA, after their Freshmen year, regardless of how good they are. That's their choice!
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
Berry wasn't good enough until this year to be even considered a possibility for the 1st round.
Meeks did a Nazi Mohammad weight transformation (still a big boy though), and wasn't a possible 1st rounder until last year.
Jackson is the one that probably could have left sooner, but even he wasn't a lottery pick or guaranteed first rounder before.
Look at Bradley. Back in Nov/Dec, he looked like he might be their best frontcourt player on offense. He played 8 minutes last night. So he may have been held back a bit (aka Self-101).
Just a couple of years ago, it came out that a former player was living in Roy's $600K house.
Guy was making barely minimum wage working for the team. Pretty sure he got busted for drugs at the house?
Man, the NCAA sure burned Roy up good for that one.
Guy was making barely minimum wage working for the team. Pretty sure he got busted for drugs at the house?
Man, the NCAA sure burned Roy up good for that one.
Jackson is the only sure first rounder in that bunch. Maybe he don't coach them up
Why not stay? Don't have to bother with going to class or studying. Just hang out and play ball. Given A's and B's. Get a degree without ever having to put any effort into it. Maybe play in the NBA or overseas a while or just get a cush job for alumni doing nothing.
Kisker to all of it is, knowing you will never have to answer to the NCAA for anything.
Kisker to all of it is, knowing you will never have to answer to the NCAA for anything.
I've often wondered this. They are the only one of the so called 5 blue blood programs UK, Duke, UCLA, Kansas, & UNC that keeps getting one & done type players to keep returning for their soph, jr, and sr years. I guess when you don't have to take legitimate college classes & you take kindergarten classes instead, I guess that helps. Plus we all know what the Carolina way is all about. It means they've got a cheatin coach that payed players at Kansas and left them on probation. As we all know a leopard doesn't change it's spots. Old Roy is still passing out the dough, and gets away with it. Because after all it's the Carolina way.
It's no secret.......just recruit players that no one (NBA) wants and
slow walk them..(Don't use them)
The issue is UNC's unused stay..UK's unused transfer.
Matthews may have made a difference this year.
Hope to keep Hump and maybe SKJ for next year
God forbid they stay and work harder to raise their game instead of running from competition. It's not like we've never sent a 6th man to the draft.
UNC hit a fortunate (from their perspective) series of events with these guys. They are a group of guys that have been good, but not quite lottery good. So, they stayed. We had the same thing happen for us in 2012. Lamb, Miller, & Jones all came back. It made us an unstoppable force that year.
Meeks has never been projected to be drafted at any point. He looked better than advertised as a freshman, then failed to live up to increased expectations over the next 2 seasons and eventually became a solid role player for them.
Jackson could have left after his freshman year and been a first round pick. He struggled most of last season and his stock fell which is why he came back this year.
Berry first started appearing on draft boards last season and it was in the late 2nd round.
Jackson is really the only one that I think could have left.
I don't agree that it's always 100% the right choice to leave early when teams are drafting you mostly on potential even if you're in the lottery.
Bam for instance. Probably a first round pick. Don't think he should leave.
Think James Young made a bad choice in hindsight as well.
If you leave and you're 2 or 3 years away from actually being able to play then it's a risky choice no matter where they draft you because there's a chance that team gives up on you.
I actually think that Cal has kinda transitioned away from a complete OAD model. This 2017 class includes several 5 stars, but none of of them are considered sure fire OAD. Then you mix in sure fire OAD's like Bamba or Knox and you have an excellent team. I actually think that the 2019 season is setting up to be 2015 esque with who we could have returning , plus adding the 2018 class.
Those guys had nowhere to go except back to UNC. Now you can question how he got Barnes and McAdoo to stay.
It's a bit of an invalid comparison. None of those guys came in as freshmen being projected as guaranteed lottery locks the way Cal's top recruits annually are. Don't get me wrong, they certainly were highly rated, but not at the same level that most of our one and dones were. So, to answer your question, they stayed in part because they simply didn't have the same enticements to leave that our guys did.
And, btw, it's worth noting that the guy that really killed us yesterday--Luke Maye--originally came to UNC as an unranked nobody walk-on. Go figure.
I partly agree with this....every kid we get thinks he is one and done and that has killed us....Orton, Johnson, Skal, to mention only 3
How exactly has it killed us? Who, besides Duke, has a better record than UK since Cal arrived?
Call me when Roy can equal Cal's record, not when he's better 2 out of 9 years.
Simple. Cal "pushes them out" because he actually cares about the kids and their future. Roy does the opposite to better his livelihood and to make the NCAA more money in the long run.
He lies to them about their draft prospects in order to get them to return and pile up more wins for him. It really is sick. Unfathomable how much total money he's cost kids that play for him over the years.
I think 50 years from now when people are looking back they'll truly look at John Calipari as a revolutionary and one of the most selfless people to ever work in college athletics. He could easily have cajoled a dozen or so players into coming back over the last 8 years and would probably have 2-3 more titles as a result, but he makes it about the kids and not about himself. Now is there a bit of showmanship to it? Sure. He knows that by making it about the kids that in turn makes kids want to come here, but think about all the guys who he easily could've talked into coming back if he really broke out the sob story playbook like Coach K/Roy do on a yearly basis? He's an unbelievably selfless human being.
I think 50 years from now when people are looking back they'll truly look at John Calipari as a revolutionary and one of the most selfless people to ever work in college athletics. He could easily have cajoled a dozen or so players into coming back over the last 8 years and would probably have 2-3 more titles as a result, but he makes it about the kids and not about himself. Now is there a bit of showmanship to it? Sure. He knows that by making it about the kids that in turn makes kids want to come here, but think about all the guys who he easily could've talked into coming back if he really broke out the sob story playbook like Coach K/Roy do on a yearly basis? He's an unbelievably selfless human being.
The players we sign are drastically different than the players they sign. Here is a comparison of our classes since Cal arrived using Rivals overall ranking:
UNC players national ranking (I listed who the top 25 recruits were):
2 - Harrison Barnes - 2 years - NBA
5 - John Henson - 3 years - NBA
8 - James McAdoo - 3 years - NBA
10 - Reggie Bullock - 3 years - NBA
11 - Justin Jackson - current sophomore
13 - PJ Hairston - suspended before junior year
15 - Ed Davis - 2 years - NBA
16 - Isaiah Hicks - 4 years
17 - Theo Pinson - current junior
27
27
32
33
34
34
42
45
49
57
59
60
65
65
71
76
89
90
140
NR
NR
NR
NR
NR
UK players (Cal recruits) national ranking (current status of those guys that left early):
1 - John Wall - 1 year - NBA
1 - Skal Labissiere - 1 year - NBA
2 - Demarcus Cousins - 1 year - NBA
2 - Anthony Davis - 1 year - NBA
2 - Nerlens Noel - 1 year - NBA
2 - Julius Randle - 1 year - NBA
3 - Enes Kanter
3 - Michael Kidd-Gilchrest - 1 year - NBA
5 - Marquis Teague - 1 year - NBDL
5 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 1 year - NBA
5 - Andrew Harrison - 2 years - NBA
6 - Brandon Knight - 1 year - NBA
7 - Aaron Harrison - 2 years - NBDL
8 - Alex Poythress - 4 years - NBDL
9 - Jamal Murray - 1 year - NBA
9 - Dakari Johnson - 2 years - NBDL
10 - Briscoe - just completed 2nd year
11 - James Young - 1 year - NBA
13 - Trey Lyles - 1 year - NBA
13 - Terrence Jones - 2 years - NBA
14 - Archie Goodwin - 1 year - NBA
19 - Marcus Lee - going into 4th year
21 - Doron lamb - 2 years - overseas
21 - Tyler Ulis - 2 years - NBA
22 - Daniel Orton - 1 year - overseas
22 - Kyle Wiltjer - 4 years - NBA
23 - Eric Bledsoe - 1 year - NBA
29 - Devin Booker - 1 year - NBA
33
40
40 - Willie Cauley-Stein - 3 years - NBA
48
115
NR
NR
NR
NR
Since 2009, they have signed 4 top 10 recruits. We have signed 17. It's interesting when you look at all of this.
UNC players national ranking (I listed who the top 25 recruits were):
2 - Harrison Barnes - 2 years - NBA
5 - John Henson - 3 years - NBA
8 - James McAdoo - 3 years - NBA
10 - Reggie Bullock - 3 years - NBA
11 - Justin Jackson - current sophomore
13 - PJ Hairston - suspended before junior year
15 - Ed Davis - 2 years - NBA
16 - Isaiah Hicks - 4 years
17 - Theo Pinson - current junior
27
27
32
33
34
34
42
45
49
57
59
60
65
65
71
76
89
90
140
NR
NR
NR
NR
NR
UK players (Cal recruits) national ranking (current status of those guys that left early):
1 - John Wall - 1 year - NBA
1 - Skal Labissiere - 1 year - NBA
2 - Demarcus Cousins - 1 year - NBA
2 - Anthony Davis - 1 year - NBA
2 - Nerlens Noel - 1 year - NBA
2 - Julius Randle - 1 year - NBA
3 - Enes Kanter
3 - Michael Kidd-Gilchrest - 1 year - NBA
5 - Marquis Teague - 1 year - NBDL
5 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 1 year - NBA
5 - Andrew Harrison - 2 years - NBA
6 - Brandon Knight - 1 year - NBA
7 - Aaron Harrison - 2 years - NBDL
8 - Alex Poythress - 4 years - NBDL
9 - Jamal Murray - 1 year - NBA
9 - Dakari Johnson - 2 years - NBDL
10 - Briscoe - just completed 2nd year
11 - James Young - 1 year - NBA
13 - Trey Lyles - 1 year - NBA
13 - Terrence Jones - 2 years - NBA
14 - Archie Goodwin - 1 year - NBA
19 - Marcus Lee - going into 4th year
21 - Doron lamb - 2 years - overseas
21 - Tyler Ulis - 2 years - NBA
22 - Daniel Orton - 1 year - overseas
22 - Kyle Wiltjer - 4 years - NBA
23 - Eric Bledsoe - 1 year - NBA
29 - Devin Booker - 1 year - NBA
33
40
40 - Willie Cauley-Stein - 3 years - NBA
48
115
NR
NR
NR
NR
Since 2009, they have signed 4 top 10 recruits. We have signed 17. It's interesting when you look at all of this.
I can't tell you how many guys I thought there'd be no way they would leave as early as they did.
Eric Bledsoe (he's great now but not at the time)
Archie Goodwin
Tyler Ulis after two years
Daniel Orton
Dakari Johnson
And even when I come to expect guys to leave, I was still blown away at how little a lot of them did but still got drafted high. Like, for example, Trey Lyles. He was one part of a very good team but he didn't blow you away. But now, when you come here, you're just expected to be gone.
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