How do you feel about the number of players that leave UK early every year?

[UKvisitor]

If Cal would add one or 2 home grown players every year it would make some kentucky boys live their DREAM of wearing KENTUCKY across their chest. Maybe they won't make millions in the NBA, but I believe most would do fairly well financially after leaving UK.

Right now, they don't get enough interest from UK.

 

[Big Cat fan]

I think the ul/UNC/Duke fans high 5 each other while the NCAA refs have drinks

I think Cal's player first is dumb.

That is what happens

 

[Comebakatz3]

Coach K won twice as many titles.

Coach K is a legendary coach that just turned 70 years old and who has spent the last 30 some odd years at one school. Do you think we're going to lure him away from Duke to replace Calipari? Further, as I said earlier, Coach K went 9 years between titles on 2 separate occasions and then 5 years between the last two. it also took him 11 years before he ever won a title with Duke. This is arguably the greatest coach of all time. So, why are we only giving Calipari a 7 year window, and even then you're complaining that he has just one title in that time period.

What you just don't seem to understand is that we're looking at a very small picture in terms of Calipari. If we looked at certain 7 year periods in Coach K's career he'd look like an average coach. However, we don't look at it like that, but instead look at it in the grand scheme of his 30+ years and see that he has 5 titles. Jim Calhoun went 12 years without ever making a Final Four before he finally won a title in 1999. Still, it took him 25 years at one school to win three titles, an average of one every 8 years. Coach K, in case you were wondering, averages 1 title about every 7 years. Even Roy Williams went 7 years without a title before winning this year, and even in that stretch he only made the FF one time (last year) and they bowed out before the sweet 16 in 4 of those 7 years.

So, even if he could have won another title or two... there are few coaches in the country that would have had as good or better 7 year stretch than Calipari has had at Kentucky, and those coaches are at other elite schools. So, there are not really many realistic coaching options that would or could do better than Cal has done for UK.

 

[Madcat62]

So far my favorite player of the Cal era is Tyler Ulis. He stayed more then a year. So far Cal has 1 Championship.

I don't particularly like the system but Cal is only using the rules to his advantage.

The NBA is a disgrace. I would just as soon pick my nose as watch a pro game. They should have just left their age rule the way it was.

i despise the nba just want to UK in the final fours and win ncaa championship cal got 1 so far the way i see it with the turn over of players think will be lucky to get 1 more before he retires

 

[mj2k10]

Both Calhoun and Roy Williams (although I detest both).

Totally insane post. Especially in regards to Roy. Just completely batsh** crazy, with absolutely no grasp of the facts whatsoever, and a complete lack of perspective.

Comparing Cal at UK to Roy Williams IN THE SAME TIME FRAME, Cal is better, significantly, by every objective measure.

And let me ask- would you take UNC's chances to win a title the next 5 years, or UK's?

Some of the alleged fans on this board just need to stop posting.

 

[ram1955]

1

Based on the talent he gets we should expect more than one title. The scenario was multiple titles over the span he's been here with lesser talent. I'll take the titles. What's contradictory about that?

dean smith had MICHAEL JORDAN, MAYBE THE BEST PLAYER TO EVER PLAY THE GAME, AND JAMES WORTHY along with other future pros on the same team... Yet he won only one title with them. Cal is doing a fine job. The best team rarely wins the title. It takes a certain amount of luck.

 

[kats23]

You're happier with one title over two, just so we win the recruiting class title?

Not what I said. Of course I would want two titles. Want as many titles as possible. But anyone with a 1/2 a brain knows as fickle as the tourney is, crap happens. Give me the guy who gives us a shot at it most years.

The real reason coaches leave UK is the fans are just never satisfied with who's here unless they are basically winning a title every other year. Even in the same time that Cal has been here, I would bet fans would be pissed off with what K has done in that time at Duke if he was at UK. 2 titles but in that same time has only made the Elite 8 once. I can hear fans now whining about that right now. K is the only coach who's done better that Cal during his time at UK and it still wouldn't be enough. If you don't like this 8 year run, that really is a you problem

 

[KySpringCat]

Haven't won our share so far. Should have two more, at least.

You're right, we should have two more. But that isn't the same as our share. What I mean by that is winning about 1 of 8 is about the historical average for a blueblood program.

 

[Primedfor9]

I've never had a problem with it if we reload. I want us to win. I don't nor do most develop relationships with the players. I never understood people saying that at all. We win I'm fine, that's why I'm a fan.

 

[Titles1]

Not what I said. Of course I would want two titles. Want as many titles as possible. But anyone with a 1/2 a brain knows as fickle as the tourney is, crap happens. Give me the guy who gives us a shot at it most years.

The real reason coaches leave UK is the fans are just never satisfied with who's here unless they are basically winning a title every other year. Even in the same time that Cal has been here, I would bet fans would be pissed off with what K has done in that time at Duke if he was at UK. 2 titles but in that same time has only made the Elite 8 once. I can hear fans now whining about that right now. K is the only coach who's done better that Cal during his time at UK and it still wouldn't be enough. If you don't like this 8 year run, that really is a you problem

I'd take twice as many titles any day.

 

[DCFseattle]

As long as it's fun to watch and gives me and my dad something to talk about during the season, I couldn't care less about the roster turnover.

 

[StevieJFTW07]

It's one thing to go pro when you are a definite lottery pick and in some situations, a 1st Round pick. But this bullshit going in the 2nd round and beyond and ending up jobless after 3-4 years or in the NBDL after 1 or 2 or even 3 years of college or playing professionally in some other Country is ridiculous.

 

[StevieJFTW07]

And all the money in the World wouldn't be enough for me to be on a suck ass team that might win 15-20 games for at least the first two or three years you play for them..possibly longer. And is that what the NBA has turned into..a bunch of money hungry but shitty competitors that don't care about winning ? I bet real NBA competitors from the 70s, 80s, and 90s feel like throwing up watching that BULLSHIT these days.

 

[hotelblue]

Some of us don't know how good we have it.

us? i hardly recognize the rr authors since the season ended. it's a surplus of trolls.

the op gave no option c. i love seeing our nba alumn total go +3 every summer.

it's a price we pay?

 

[4UK]

Not what I said. Of course I would want two titles. Want as many titles as possible. But anyone with a 1/2 a brain knows as fickle as the tourney is, crap happens. Give me the guy who gives us a shot at it most years.

The real reason coaches leave UK is the fans are just never satisfied with who's here unless they are basically winning a title every other year. Even in the same time that Cal has been here, I would bet fans would be pissed off with what K has done in that time at Duke if he was at UK. 2 titles but in that same time has only made the Elite 8 once. I can hear fans now whining about that right now. K is the only coach who's done better that Cal during his time at UK and it still wouldn't be enough. If you don't like this 8 year run, that really is a you problem

Don't perpetuate falsehoods just because you've heard someone on TV say it. So what coach has left UK because "the fans are just never satisfied."

Gillispie - nope, he was fired for being a drunk and just a generally unpleasant person
Tubby - maybe, but he's never come close to coaching at the UK level again and he's had minimal success at best.
Pitino - nope, he took a fat contract and complete control of the NBA's most legendary franchise
Sutton - nope, he got fired for cheating
Hall -- nope, he retired and never coached anywhere again

The idea that UK fans run off coaches has no basis to it whatsoever. It's bad enough when uneducated commentators spout it on TV, but it's much worse when UK fans actually repeat it as fact.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

I bet real NBA competitors from the 70s, 80s, and 90s feel like throwing up watching that BULLSHIT these days.

some of the dumber ones talk the same kind of deluded bullshit you're talking, yeah

 

[StevieJFTW07]

some of the dumber ones talk the same kind of deluded bullshit you're talking, yeah

Soooo..Michael Jordan, Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas, and Shaq are "dumb ones" too I presume ??? Haha. It's not bullshit, bud..it's the truth.

 

[kycatw\claws]

Anybody else notice that a lot of the NBA and its current system lovers resort to insulting people's intelligence that disagree with them on this? Classy bunch.

 

[StevieJFTW07]

Anybody else notice that a lot of the NBA and its current system lovers resort to insulting people's intelligence that disagree with them on this? Classy bunch.

Right on, man. Yeah, most of those clowns (Like the one I encountered a couple of posts up.) are the morons if for nothing else more than trying to insult people's intelligence yet still showing that they are an uninformed douche bag while trying.

 

[trinity45]

Not a fan of it. But as long as we keep winning titles I'm good. Recruiting titles and NBA draft titles that is.

Personally I could care less about the so called draft titles. And one championship with all the so called talent we have had barely cuts it. I really don't care about kids being 1 and done but I don't think UK will win another championship with this kind of turn over.

 

[oldsports_]

We have been blessed with the OAD and cursed by the subculture of non-elite players leaving earlier than expected.

Exactly! If every OAD leaves, and rightfully so, and every Briscoe,Hump type players stay, this whole OAD discussion is a non issue. As Brian stated, the OAD's aren't the issue at hand, some don't get it.

 

[kats23]

Don't perpetuate falsehoods just because you've heard someone on TV say it. So what coach has left UK because "the fans are just never satisfied."

Gillispie - nope, he was fired for being a drunk and just a generally unpleasant person
Tubby - maybe, but he's never come close to coaching at the UK level again and he's had minimal success at best.
Pitino - nope, he took a fat contract and complete control of the NBA's most legendary franchise
Sutton - nope, he got fired for cheating
Hall -- nope, he retired and never coached anywhere again

The idea that UK fans run off coaches has no basis to it whatsoever. It's bad enough when uneducated commentators spout it on TV, but it's much worse when UK fans actually repeat it as fact.

Cal out of his own mouth said this isn't a place you spend a career at. All I'll say is just watch. When Cal inevitability does leave, watch the difficulty we'll have hiring a coach. Just like when Tubby left. There's a reason we wound up with Billy G and it wasn't because UK thought he was the best person for the job. Their top choices didn't want the job. Sure, Sutton and Gillespie were both fired but those two let the pressure of the job and the fans exceptions get to them. That's why they turned out the way they did. The job engulfed him. Pitino wanted a new challenge. He was only here 6 years.

This is a challenging job. Not everyone wants it. Cal does, and he's perfect for it. I'm all for high standards. Without them, you end up being Indiana. IU quit caring, lowered their bar, and that's why they cut down nets and make popcorn boxes for regular season wins. Make no mistake about it, there's such a thing as too high of expectations and the most vocal UK fans have it. If a UK fan isn't happy with the past 8 years, then your standards are too high and no coach is going to please you. I bet there isn't more than 1 or 2 programs that wouldn't trade their last 8 years for UK's.

Maybe when Cal is gone, we catch lighting in the bottle again but I doubt it. We'll get a okay coach but the process will be difficult. We likely won't have coaches banging on the door to coach here. People need to enjoy John Calapari and the job he's doing with UK right now.

 

[trinity45]

It's the ncaa's fault we lose so many players, especially those players that are not ready. The primary reason for going to college is to get a job in your chosen career. Colleges are self-serving. That's why they constantly add courses required to obtain degrees. I applaud Cal for helping his guys achieve their goals and skirting the unnecessary burdens of obtaining a so-called education.

How is it the NCAA's fault, they are academic institutions. The NBA is the one who made the one and done rule just for their own benefit. Before they had to take chances on high school kids and if they flopped it cost them money, so they create the one year rule so they can watch these kids for one year in college then have them come out. I say let the kid go straight from high school if he is good enough, don't force them into college.

 

[zannmann]

Cal can't get out of his own way on players leaving. Having one and done is no big deal. It's players leaving early that have no business leaving.

 

[brianpoe]

How is it the NCAA's fault, they are academic institutions. The NBA is the one who made the one and done rule just for their own benefit. Before they had to take chances on high school kids and if they flopped it cost them money, so they create the one year rule so they can watch these kids for one year in college then have them come out. I say let the kid go straight from high school if he is good enough, don't force them into college.

Straight to NBA and we dont have nearly the success we had.

Why any UK fan would be in favor of getting rid of the OAD makes zero sense to me.

Only thing better than the OAD would be 2AD.

The next level of kids are not nearly as elite.

 

[Chuckinden]

Straight to NBA and we dont have nearly the success we had.

Why any UK fan would be in favor of getting rid of the OAD makes zero sense to me.

Only thing better than the OAD would be 2AD.

The next level of kids are not nearly as elite.

IMO, getting rid of the OAD would make for a better game in college basketball and restore some "wholesomeness"(for lack of a better word). You would have athletes that are working hard to get to the next level like it used to be and you would have players staying multiple years and giving us experience.

2AD would be great, however I think you would see startups of semipro teams or more players going overseas.

The next level of kids that aren't nearly as elite would be what we need for a multitude of reasons, IMO.

"Straight to NBA and we don't have nearly the success we had". I agree, but Cal won't be here forever.

 

[rick64]

Have mixed feelings. Love seeing the best players out there wearing UK Blue but really miss not having guys around for awhile to get to know them better and see a more consistent team roster. Love having Cal and as long as the NBA keeps the current rules, might as well be us getting many of the best players possible and taking our chances of being in a Final Four most years.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[mj2k10]

Straight to NBA and we dont have nearly the success we had.

Why any UK fan would be in favor of getting rid of the OAD makes zero sense to me.

Only thing better than the OAD would be 2AD.

The next level of kids are not nearly as elite.

That last line is something people don't seem to get.

The pool of players who can make an impact in 1 year of college basketball is very, very small. The reason Cal takes a gamble on a kid like Hamidou Diallo, who might never play a game, is because there is no one else like him available. You can't get really choosy with elite players. You can't say "oh I'll pass on Malik Monk in favor of X", for whatever reason, because there is no X that can match Malik Monk.

You can argue that Cal should be more concerned about having the best college team, not just signing the best pro prospects, but Cal knows that trying things that way is probably an even bigger minefield than having a roster full of guys looking to leave at the first opportunity. The shortest path to winning is having the best players, and the guys likely to be the best players are also the best pro prospects. You can try to plan to have a roster like UNC had these last 2 years, but you're going to need to be lucky to get it. And people won't be talking up the UNC way if the bottom falls out on them the next 2 years (which seems distinctly possible).

Also, the fact is, the kids who leave early despite not having great draft prospects are the easier kids to replace. How much did UK lose out by not having the Harrison twins an extra 2 years? Of course they would have helped, but UK replaced them with Tyler Ulis and Jamal Murray. The guy from the 15 team that UK really couldn't replace was (mainly) Karl Towns, who was never going to play anywhere more than 1 year (nor should he have). Just like this upcoming season, it will be very difficult to replace Fox, Monk, and (to a lesser extent) Bam. It won't be as hard to replace Briscoe and Humphries (though Briscoe was a very solid player).

 

[trinity45]

Straight to NBA and we dont have nearly the success we had.

Why any UK fan would be in favor of getting rid of the OAD makes zero sense to me.

Only thing better than the OAD would be 2AD.

The next level of kids are not nearly as elite.

So the only way UK can be successful is with one and done's. I think Cal was successful at UMASS and at Memphis without losing so many players to this silly one and done rule. If the kid is good enough let him start earning his living right out of high school. If I want to join the military (23yrs) I did not have to go to college first. My father was an outstander carpenter, he did not have to go to college. It is a game, that they can earn money from, let them play.

 

[truebluewildcat]

I feel like there's a happy medium to be had.

Losing 3-4 every year but having a couple contributors return is fine. Losing 5-7 and returning a couple projects is a recipe for disaster.

We know what happens when Cal has a healthy helping of OADs with a couple solid returnees sprinkled on top. We also know what happens after a mass exodus when Cal has to play mainly new young kids and a couple transfers.

 

[chris42503]

Ill take what we have now VS what we had before Cal or what we could get from someone else.

 

[lkc1234]

I'm not crazy bout revolving door recruiting. No need to explain any further

I love it. We get to watch new players every year. What is not to like?

 

[brianpoe]

So the only way UK can be successful is with one and done's. I think Cal was successful at UMASS and at Memphis without losing so many players to this silly one and done rule. If the kid is good enough let him start earning his living right out of high school. If I want to join the military (23yrs) I did not have to go to college first. My father was an outstander carpenter, he did not have to go to college. It is a game, that they can earn money from, let them play.

No Rose and Memphis has a harder time making that title game.

 

[brianpoe]

So the only way UK can be successful is with one and done's. I think Cal was successful at UMASS and at Memphis without losing so many players to this silly one and done rule. If the kid is good enough let him start earning his living right out of high school. If I want to join the military (23yrs) I did not have to go to college first. My father was an outstander carpenter, he did not have to go to college. It is a game, that they can earn money from, let them play.

The NBA is an employer they have their own standard like every other biz.

Employees don't like it but it's true. Some even require degrees...

 

[trinity45]

No Rose and Memphis has a harder time making that title game.

That is true, but Cal still would have been successful. He just saw an opportunity to embrace something that nobody else thought about. Give him credit for looking at a stupid rule and figuring out how to make it work for him.

 

[mj2k10]

So the only way UK can be successful is with one and done's. I think Cal was successful at UMASS and at Memphis without losing so many players to this silly one and done rule. If the kid is good enough let him start earning his living right out of high school. If I want to join the military (23yrs) I did not have to go to college first. My father was an outstander carpenter, he did not have to go to college. It is a game, that they can earn money from, let them play.

Check out what happened with Cal at Memphis BEFORE the one and done rule. It took him 6 years to really get things going, in part because he was signing guys like Amare Stoudemire and Kendrick Perkins who were never playing a game in college. Though he had Memphis at a high level in 05-06 and 06-07, it wasn't until Derrick Rose came along that he was back in the FF. And I think Pitino went through the same thing on his return to college. The UL turnaround didn't come anywhere near as fast as most people thought it would, in large part because Pitino was signing guys like Telfair. Pitino has been far better since the one-and-done rule, because now he at least knows he'll have the guys he recruits.

I agree with you about the rule, BTW, although I actually think the best, fairest solution would be for the NBA to pony up the cash for a real, viable minor league. The NBA and the NFL are probably the only 2 professional sports' leagues on the planet that basically pay 0 to develop talent (Which is why I laugh at people who act like the NBA paying millions to guys who aren't immediately ready to contribute is such a sin. When you factor in the rookie salary scale, and negligible amount spent on any minor league, they're getting off incredibly cheap). Of course, a viable minor league would pretty much kill college basketball, so fairest and best might not be the same thing here.

If the NBA went back to taking guys straight out of HS, then I think UK would end up looking like UL has the past decade. And that's best case, assuming UK has Cal or another elite coach at the helm.

 

[thebluestripes]

I love it. We get to watch new players every year. What is not to like?

I'm assuming that was sarcasm

 

[mj2k10]

The NBA is an employer they have their own standard like every other biz.

Employees don't like it but it's true. Some even require degrees...

They are only allowed that standard because it's collectively bargained. Otherwise, it wouldn't exist, like before, because technically, "the NBA" is not an employer, it's a collection of 30 different employers. If it wasn't collectively bargained, the next time a LeBron James came along, any team would be free to set their own standard and draft him. Which they (they being whoever had the #1 overall pick) most assuredly would.

If the NBA tried to impose league-wide restrictions without player agreement, they'd get sued, and they'd lose. They already have, because that's what the Spencer Haywood case was about. And that case, BTW, though it has Haywood's name on it, was really brought about by the owner who wanted to sign him.

 

[brianpoe]

They are only allowed that standard because it's collectively bargained. Otherwise, it wouldn't exist, like before, because technically, "the NBA" is not an employer, it's a collection of 30 different employers. If it wasn't collectively bargained, the next time a LeBron James came along, any team would be free to set their own standard and draft him. Which they (they being whoever had the #1 overall pick) most assuredly would.

If the NBA tried to impose league-wide restrictions without player agreement, they'd get sued, and they'd lose. They already have, because that's what the Spencer Haywood case was about. And that case, BTW, though it has Haywood's name on it, was really brought about by the owner who wanted to sign him.

Hundreds of employers have collectively bargained agreements.

You are right the league is a group of employers but employers none the less.

 

[mj2k10]

Hundreds of employers have collectively bargained agreements.

You are right the league is a group of employers but employers none the less.

Point is, they can't just arbitrarily impose standards the way some employers can. And if the Player's Union decided to really make a stand against any age restrictions, the owners wouldn't be able to fight it except in an indirect way.