It's the ncaa's fault we lose so many players, especially those players that are not ready. The primary reason for going to college is to get a job in your chosen career. Colleges are self-serving. That's why they constantly add courses required to obtain degrees. I applaud Cal for helping his guys achieve their goals and skirting the unnecessary burdens of obtaining a so-called education.
How do you feel about the number of players that leave UK early every year?
- Thread starter kydmb99
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Now why wouldn't other coaches have thought of this before. Just assemble some freshman and win the title every year.
I agree with others for a write-in vote on the ballot b/c both choices have truth within them:
C: It is the price to pay to have great players as I agree that Cal and the players are operating within the system/rules they've been give, and I also agree that Cal is truly players first.
However, I also think the second option is true - a team that completely lacks experience is definitely NOT the best formula to win a title.
In addition, the culture Cal has created at UK is that many players jump too early b/c they feel like a failure they don't.
C: It is the price to pay to have great players as I agree that Cal and the players are operating within the system/rules they've been give, and I also agree that Cal is truly players first.
However, I also think the second option is true - a team that completely lacks experience is definitely NOT the best formula to win a title.
In addition, the culture Cal has created at UK is that many players jump too early b/c they feel like a failure they don't.
I've said all along that my only issue with guys leaving early is that I feel guys put pressure on themselves to leave early, even if they have not proved at UK that they are ready for the NBA, because they were a top recruit and that is what top recruits at UK do. If they don't leave early, they are seen as a failure.
Since Cal arrived, there have been 7 recruiting classes that have had the ability to play 2 years of college ball, so there have been a total of 70 top 10 recruits. UK is the only school where a top 10 recruit played his entire freshman year or entire freshman and sophomore year, left for the NBA and went undrafted (Aaron Harrison, Dakari Johnson and most likely Isaiah Briscoe all fit the category). IMO, something is missing in the recruiting process that this happens here. I understand it's a part of recruiting the top guys, but it's the one thing that sticks out to me.
And before anyone says, "well, the only other option is to go back to the BCG and Tubby days" which seems to be a common response, here are the amount of freshman, sophomores, juniors and seniors who started in the Final Four the past 2 years:
2017
Freshman - 2
Sophs - 4
Juniors - 7
Seniors - 7
2016
Freshman - 2
Sophs - 3
Juniors - 6
Seniors - 9
I completely understand why guys leave early and I hope they succeed in wherever their career takes them. The other side of me realizes that to be successful, we need top guys to return. We have had 20 All SEC players in Cals tenure and only one of them returned the following year...Terrence Jones. And yes, I know part of the reason he returned is because of the possible lockout, but I also know that 28 guys were drafted in 2011 after leaving early, so he had an option to leave.
Guys leaving early is a small price to pay for the success that Cal has had. I just wish more guys would stay another year.
Since Cal arrived, there have been 7 recruiting classes that have had the ability to play 2 years of college ball, so there have been a total of 70 top 10 recruits. UK is the only school where a top 10 recruit played his entire freshman year or entire freshman and sophomore year, left for the NBA and went undrafted (Aaron Harrison, Dakari Johnson and most likely Isaiah Briscoe all fit the category). IMO, something is missing in the recruiting process that this happens here. I understand it's a part of recruiting the top guys, but it's the one thing that sticks out to me.
And before anyone says, "well, the only other option is to go back to the BCG and Tubby days" which seems to be a common response, here are the amount of freshman, sophomores, juniors and seniors who started in the Final Four the past 2 years:
2017
Freshman - 2
Sophs - 4
Juniors - 7
Seniors - 7
2016
Freshman - 2
Sophs - 3
Juniors - 6
Seniors - 9
I completely understand why guys leave early and I hope they succeed in wherever their career takes them. The other side of me realizes that to be successful, we need top guys to return. We have had 20 All SEC players in Cals tenure and only one of them returned the following year...Terrence Jones. And yes, I know part of the reason he returned is because of the possible lockout, but I also know that 28 guys were drafted in 2011 after leaving early, so he had an option to leave.
Guys leaving early is a small price to pay for the success that Cal has had. I just wish more guys would stay another year.
The idea that it's either this or the Tubby/BCG days is very dumb
I'd rather have the best players and be in the hunt every year than taking lesser players and leveling the playing field against about 20 teams.
all freshman teams have been in the title game 3 times
BTW as far as i can remember there has only been 3 all freshman teams in the NCAAT
so that sample size says to play all freshman
Of course I would prefer that they stay longer and understand I when the elite talent chooses to go pro. Surely some of the players could benefit by staying longer, but they make their own decisions in life.
i wonder what those numbers would be since Cal has been at UK
of course we know that very few coaches can recruit like Cal so most have to rely on lightning-in-a-bottle with lower ranked players
we would all like to see the top talent return, but that is not reality
tell me which coach is having more success than Cal not using the OAD system
i understand you do not like the OAD, but that is the hand we are dealt
BTW, i would love a TAD rule
Who likes a revolving door? But it works for Cal and he's right up there with all the other coaches. I've said it for a long time, I think some fans would be happier had Cal recruited less talented classes and took some first weekend losses and shorter stays in the tournament and had 2 titles or even 1 just as long as he had a couple Final Fours mixed in. There would less exceptions.
But when Cal brings in the #1 or #2 class year after year, fans expect a title every other year. Since that hasn't happened, fans get "tired" of the revolving door. But that just isn't realistic. Give me the best players, give me a shot every year.
But when Cal brings in the #1 or #2 class year after year, fans expect a title every other year. Since that hasn't happened, fans get "tired" of the revolving door. But that just isn't realistic. Give me the best players, give me a shot every year.
Take this poll again after we miss the tourny or squeak in next year. We have never been this gutted.
Senior Miller was the difference in 2012 not being an almost. Coaches are learning how to play Cal as he is limited to the basics he can get the freshmen to play.
Senior Miller was the difference in 2012 not being an almost. Coaches are learning how to play Cal as he is limited to the basics he can get the freshmen to play.
Your the guy that in one breath said he'd trade 4 bad years for one title and then in another breath said we should expect a title every single year, lol. Sorry, but you can only have it one way.
Based on the talent he gets we should expect more than one title. The scenario was multiple titles over the span he's been here with lesser talent. I'll take the titles. What's contradictory about that?
UCLA has played basketball for 98 years and won 11 titles. That is an average of 1 every 9 years.
Kentucky has played basketball for 114 years and won 8 titles. That is an average of 1 every 14 years.
UNC has played basketball for 107 years and has won 6 titles. That is an average of 1 every 18 years.
Duke has played basketball for 112 years and has won 5 titles. That is an average of 1 every 22 years.
So... why do you think it is such a black mark against Calipari that he's only won 1 title in just 7 years? Coach K is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. It took him 9 years after 1992 to win another title in 2001. It then took him another 9 years to win again in 2010. Yet we somehow want to hold Calipari to a higher standard and thing it is inexcusable that he's only won one title in 7 years? You can certainly want more, we all do, but we also have to be realistic and the reality is that Cal is doing a damn good job.
We have been in position to win quite a few others and not got the job done. All your statistical data shows how valuable it is to get the job done when great opportunities arise. Some of you guys love Cal more than UK.
it has nothing to do with loving cal more than uk and that's ridiculous. You're talking to a guy that used to listen to every single Kentucky baseball game on the radio. I think that's more than enough proof that I don't just love Cal more than UK. Further, you are largely contradicting yourself
Shut the board down, i think this sums it all up! End of discussion.
Please Daddy!!!?!?!?! Can we have 22 more threads rehashing the same sh*t as the 24+ page thread we already have? I would just adore it!!
Duke was better in 1992. UCONN was better in 2014 with uk injured. All frosh rotation teams have done very well honestly.
Most of those schools have had a whole lot of missed opportunities on the way to those numbers.
My opinion on the matter. Might be long, maybe wait for the book.
Looking back, we had to have Cal. It didn't matter if he made 1 final four. He was a necessity. If we missed on him we were headed for bad times and a looooooong final four drought. He brought us back immediately.
Having said that, sitting here 8 years later, I'm so sick and tired of the comparisons between Cal and Gillispie or Tubby. Those coaches were not UK material and we don't judge ourselves by that. Cal today is no different than any other coach and will be judged by UK standards. Period.
8 years, 4 final fours, national title. That's fine. That's a great job even here.
Here's the problem.
Since Cal has been at UK, UNC and Duke have gained on us, and we haven't really a big enough dent in Cals goal, to catch UCLA. That's what Cal said, catch UCLA, win Title(s). That's called a supreme legacy, and if you pump that message to UK fans, they will expect something close. Cal would have been better off not even saying that. We aren't Memphis fans and most won't be content with where we are right now. The main problem being? People don't really see Cal willing another title with this much turnover which is getting WORSE by the year. So now, not only is half the fanbase or more sick of seeing guys leave too early anyway, but now they think we probably won't win another. And if we fail to make the final four next year, we will be looking down the barrel at 3 straight non final four seasons, maybe stretching beyond that. Cal is way too good for that, and the reason would be his system. It's catching up to him. His teams are too young.
So it's just not going to fly. Should it? Shouldn't it? Doesn't matter, it won't. Not to thousands and thousands of fans. Probably the majority.
Either way, I think it's fair to say we should all be grateful to Cal, but also apply pressure to him to make sure UK comes first. Not to make him think "program over players", but to remind him that the only way he can continue to do what he's doing here is if UK fans stay on board. And the only way that happens is if we all feel like the program is put at the head of the line.
Is Diallo goes pro, Cal will need to adjust his message to this fanbase at minimum. The same routine will not work and will only put more pressure on him than necessary.
So I vote, well, both actually.
Looking back, we had to have Cal. It didn't matter if he made 1 final four. He was a necessity. If we missed on him we were headed for bad times and a looooooong final four drought. He brought us back immediately.
Having said that, sitting here 8 years later, I'm so sick and tired of the comparisons between Cal and Gillispie or Tubby. Those coaches were not UK material and we don't judge ourselves by that. Cal today is no different than any other coach and will be judged by UK standards. Period.
8 years, 4 final fours, national title. That's fine. That's a great job even here.
Here's the problem.
Since Cal has been at UK, UNC and Duke have gained on us, and we haven't really a big enough dent in Cals goal, to catch UCLA. That's what Cal said, catch UCLA, win Title(s). That's called a supreme legacy, and if you pump that message to UK fans, they will expect something close. Cal would have been better off not even saying that. We aren't Memphis fans and most won't be content with where we are right now. The main problem being? People don't really see Cal willing another title with this much turnover which is getting WORSE by the year. So now, not only is half the fanbase or more sick of seeing guys leave too early anyway, but now they think we probably won't win another. And if we fail to make the final four next year, we will be looking down the barrel at 3 straight non final four seasons, maybe stretching beyond that. Cal is way too good for that, and the reason would be his system. It's catching up to him. His teams are too young.
So it's just not going to fly. Should it? Shouldn't it? Doesn't matter, it won't. Not to thousands and thousands of fans. Probably the majority.
Either way, I think it's fair to say we should all be grateful to Cal, but also apply pressure to him to make sure UK comes first. Not to make him think "program over players", but to remind him that the only way he can continue to do what he's doing here is if UK fans stay on board. And the only way that happens is if we all feel like the program is put at the head of the line.
Is Diallo goes pro, Cal will need to adjust his message to this fanbase at minimum. The same routine will not work and will only put more pressure on him than necessary.
So I vote, well, both actually.
No, I just understand the rarity of them and realize that great coaches put the program in a position to regularly compete for titles. If over the course of 15 years Calipari had none then I'd agree with you, but he has one and is just 5 years removed from that. And to make it even better, he's getting our program into a position to win every single year. Can you name another coach that's done that over the past 7 years? The only ones are hall of fame coaches that have been at their programs for years.
I miss being able to watch players develop and grow from year to year. But I also like being right there in position to win. If we keep showing up at the elite eight and final four, we will win our share in the long run. You just never know which group is going to gel in get it. Right now it can be a bit random depending on young guys and it is nerve racking for the fans. I would not trade Cal for Tubby or Gillespie I know that.
