Honestly Hagans can’t hold Water’s Jock

[HagginHall1999]

Yeah, I was loving me some Ashton Hagans in late December/early January. He’s looked more like November Hagans the last couple weeks.

Confused...

Hagans had a poor game tonight and I gather it was because he was out of sync with 2 early fouls. Waters is a good player and pretty much every guard in the country would struggle to stay in front of him.

Overall, last night was a poor defensive effort by the team as a whole. Way too many easy buckets in 2nd half. Def not all on Hagans...a few more guys should shoulder more blame.

Not to mention Hagans best game offensively was UGA in middle of January and he had 9 assists against MSU this past Saturday.

If anything he has been inconsistent offensively.

Hagans stats going back to Kansas game...
6.5ppg
3rbpg
6apg
2spg
3topg

 

[chevyman 50]

Look to me like Waters is a much better pt guard of course Hagan is still a freshman in the first half Quigley play him pretty well.

 

[kats23]

I think people forget Hagans is supposed to be a senior in High School. He reclassified. I think the schedule of playing twice a week in what has been one, if not the toughest SEC schedules a John Calipari PG has seen l, is really taking a toll on him. He has been in a bit of a rough stretch the last couple of weeks but is he as bad as people in this thread are making him out to be? Not even close

 

[Lovebaskelball]

I think people forget Hagans is supposed to be a senior in High School. He reclassified. I think the schedule of playing twice a week in what has been one, if not the toughest SEC schedules a John Calipari PG has seen l, is really taking a toll on him. He has been in a bit of a rough stretch the last couple of weeks but is he as bad as people in this thread are making him out to be? Not even close

RJ Barrett reclassified and is a whole year younger than Hagans. Fat Hami is also a year younger and only played against 5'9" centers in High School according to most posters and is doing pretty well.

Hagans is what you want in a point guard minus one thing, can't shoot from outside. More teams are backing off and clogging the middle and unless he starts making 15 footers, it will be more of the same..

 

[rolaid]

You simply cannot play 4 on 5 at this level. He has to be able to make floaters and runners and he just doesn't have that game.

 

[STL_Cat]

I think people forget Hagans is supposed to be a senior in High School. He reclassified.

This again? Haha

 

[MadaboutBlue]

It's been reported AH wants to be OAD. That's his choice. He will never play in the NBA unless he can fix his shot.

I would hope that reports about Hagans going pro are just some kind of sick rumor, but at Kentucky that's the way we roll-and that kills me about our system. It's almost like the "succeed and proceed" process brands you a horrible failure if you don't go the league after a year. Sometimes I think it does as much harm as good.

 

[KyCatFan]

Hagans has 2 big weaknesses. They are shooting and decision making in the paint. Every time he drives into the paint and is cutoff, it is almost always a turnover. He either fumbles the ball away or tries to make some kind of wrap around pass that gets stolen. He has to be more under control when he is cutoff and find the open man sooner.

 

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

Waters was 3-13, 1-5 from 3. You clowns would be hammering him if he wore blue.

 

[drcats2013]

Never got the Hagen love - simply not that good a poor on the ball defender with no offense - yes hesxa first rounder

You are drunk

 

[Cal-4-Three]

LSU backed off Hagans and dared him to shoot the three. If you go back and watch the game Waters was at the freethrow line when Hagans was at the top of the key. It seems they gameplanned to let him beat them if he could. We are going to see that a lot more moving forward. It's a big weakness if he can't hit a wide open shot.

 

[Fox2monk]

This should put an end to any notion that Hagans will go pro. He's not ready at all. Neither is Herro or surprisingly Keldon.

Keldon is the kinda kid that would flourish with a second year. He’s falling down the boards so maybe there is a chance.

 

[kats23]

RJ Barrett reclassified and is a whole year younger than Hagans. Fat Hami is also a year younger and only played against 5'9" centers in High School according to most posters and is doing pretty well.

Hagans is what you want in a point guard minus one thing, can't shoot from outside. More teams are backing off and clogging the middle and unless he starts making 15 footers, it will be more of the same..

Barrett is also not a point guard and head and shoulders better player than Hagans. Same as Zion. Point guard is like a QB development. It's much more to handle than any other position on the floor. I think people just need to cut the kid some slack rather than dump on him like he's a terrible player.

 

[STL_Cat]

Barrett is also not a point guard and head and shoulders better player than Hagans. Same as Zion. Point guard is like a QB development. It's much more to handle than any other position on the floor. I think people just need to cut the kid some slack rather than dump on him like he's a terrible player.

I don’t know anyone who thinks he’s a terrible player. But he’s 19 years old and will turn 20 this summer. He’s not only in the right class but he’s actually old for a college freshman. Enough of the he should be in high school stuff.

 

[blubo]

Keldon is the kinda kid that would flourish with a second year. He’s falling down the boards so maybe there is a chance.

I thought kj was the player who would be leading this team by now. he’s just coming along slower than expected.

 

[KyCatFan]

Barrett is also not a point guard and head and shoulders better player than Hagans. Same as Zion. Point guard is like a QB development. It's much more to handle than any other position on the floor. I think people just need to cut the kid some slack rather than dump on him like he's a terrible player.

We should stop relying on true freshmen every year to handle the burden of such an important position. We need to have some high 3/low 4 star point guards that are here multiple years to take the pressure off of players who might not be ready for the responsibility. Unfortunately, the culture Cal has created here has even our 4 star players leaving after a year. Anywhere else and they are likely 3 or 4 year players.

 

[STL_Cat]

I thought kj was the player who would be leading this team by now. he’s just coming along slower than expected.

KJ is the type of player that 10, maybe even 7-8 years ago we’d all be enjoying his freshman year and eagerly awaiting the player he’s going to become as a sophomore and beyond. As it stands though this will be the only season we see him as a Cat. Hagans too, really. Same deal.

 

[wkycatfan]

Hagans is a gambler on defense. Waters feasts off gamblers. Quickley did pretty well against Waters by just trying to play solid D. I like Hagans better than Quickly as a ball handler, creator however.

 

[STL_Cat]

Hagans is a gambler on defense. Waters feasts off gamblers. Quickley did pretty well against Waters by just trying to play solid D. I like Hagans better than Quickly as a ball handler, creator however.

Yep. Last night was the first time this year I really though Quickly looked better guarding the opposing team’s primary ball handler. Quickly stayed home guarding Waters and his length seemed to bother him. Waters seemed to have an easier time going where he wanted to go on the court with the ball whwn Hagans was on him.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Where Hagans has stepped back, IMO is merely with his ball handling. For whatever reason he just seems much less reliable with the ball the last two or three games. He also isn't getting the steals he was getting. These are the two major things that Hagans brings. When he isn't taking care of the ball and he isn't getting steals then he can disappear entirely, and end up hurting more than helping.

He has got to knock down the wide open three pointers, and for the love of all that is holy... he has got to get his damn foot off the three point line. If you are going to shoot it from 19.5 you might as well go ahead and make it the full 20 just in case you make it. If he can't make an opposing defense respect his ability to make a three pointer from time to time then we will, as others said, basically be playing 4 on 5. If this happens then he absolutely has to at least be reliable with the ball and play great defense. He did none of those last night.

 

[STL_Cat]

Where Hagans has stepped back, IMO is merely with his ball handling. For whatever reason he just seems much less reliable with the ball the last two or three games. He also isn't getting the steals he was getting. These are the two major things that Hagans brings. When he isn't taking care of the ball and he isn't getting steals then he can disappear entirely, and end up hurting more than helping.

He has got to knock down the wide open three pointers, and for the love of all that is holy... he has got to get his damn foot off the three point line. If you are going to shoot it from 19.5 you might as well go ahead and make it the full 20 just in case you make it. If he can't make an opposing defense respect his ability to make a three pointer from time to time then we will, as others said, basically be playing 4 on 5. If this happens then he absolutely has to at least be reliable with the ball and play great defense. He did none of those last night.

Good post. Agree with all of it.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Hagans is a gambler on defense. Waters feasts off gamblers. Quickley did pretty well against Waters by just trying to play solid D. I like Hagans better than Quickly as a ball handler, creator however.

It is fine to be a gambler against the player you can recover on, but you also have to adjust in the game and just keep the ball in front of you against a guy you cannot recover against. Hagans didn't make the adjustment last night and Waters really ate him up at times.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

....he has got to get his damn foot off the three point line. If you are going to shoot it from 19.5 you might as well go ahead and make it the full 20 just in case you make it.

That wouldn't help since the line is 20'9".

 

[Comebakatz3]

That wouldn't help since the line is 20'9".

Haha I was wondering if I would catch some grief for that. Well played.

 

[stoneycat_20]

a big part of getting beat is on Reid Travis he's got to be a lot better

 

[STL_Cat]

I couldn’t believe the one Hagans actually did hit (that clanked badly against the dead spot in the rim and backboard and fell in) he managed to turn into a 2. He received that ball a good foot and a half behind the line and really had to step into it to manage to get his toe on the line. If he takes that shot he absolutely has to have better awareness of where his feet are.

 

[dbarr03]

Obviously Hagans didn't have a good game but I don't think Waters was amazing either. 3-13 is very bad and many of those shots had no chance and were pretty much turnovers. Waters was definitely great on defensive and a good fasilitator on offense, so I would probably give him a B.

Side Note: I thought Walters was a little protected. 0 fouls in 38 mins in kind of crazy, specially considering how he plays the game and some of the fouls called on us.

 

[Macy's socks]

This season UK is a second half team. Last night, they weren't.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Obviously Hagans didn't have a good game but I don't think Waters was amazing either. 3-13 is very bad and many of those shots had no chance and were pretty much turnovers. Waters was definitely great on defensive and a good fasilitator on offense, so I would probably give him a B.

Side Note: I thought Walters was a little protected. 0 fouls in 38 mins in kind of crazy, specially considering how he plays the game and some of the fouls called on us.

Waters still had 15 points, and got around the rim pretty regularly against Hagans.

In the first half, Waters scored 3 points against Hagans and went 1 for 2 with a 3 pointer. He scored 4 points on two Quickley fouls, but didn't make a basket.

In the second half, if I am not mistaken, Waters scored all 8 of his points while Hagans was in the game. He just went 2-5, but he was getting into the lane, and picked up his two second half assists while Hagans was in the game, but due to his driving (the second was the 3 pointer where everyone followed Waters and PJ left Reid open for a three). Waters also, at least once, put up a missed layup that was rebounded and put back by the offense and might has well have been an assist. However, to be fair... Hagans fouled Waters just once in the second half, so two of the free throws that Waters made were when he was running around Herro's ankles and Herro tripped over him.

Point being... the second half was not a great defensive effort by Hagans. Waters didn't put up great numbers, but he created and got around Hagans and doing that caused the defense to shift and made it easier for LSU to score and get rebounds. In short, he did what great point guards do... he created, even if it doesn't show up on a box score.

 

[Bluesnky]

Not what I recall. He was a 5'11" 4 star guard out of Connecticut. Ranked #40, well behind Quade and Shai and even behind Shai's cousin who plays for VT. And remember UK also offered Trae Young and John Petty in that class.

I don’t know what any of that has to do with the objective fact that Cal recruited Tremont Waters. He took an official visit to Kentucky.

 

[Bluesnky]

People can say he had a bad game because he went 3-13 (never mind the 8-8 free throws) but how many of those ten misses did his team get putbacks because our big men had to try to bail out our beaten guards?

 

[silentsaregolden2.0]

Love all the posters who say nothing when AH is having great games, but can't get to their keyboards fast enough if he has a bad one.

 

[new era cat]

I thought he said over a year ago he wasn't recruiting any more kids who can't shoot. Just more bs from Cal.

At this point he is looking at whatever 5 stars he can still get to the pros quickly, otherwise he will look bad and have to change his system.
Can you imagine how offense with 50-50 3 and 4 star players? 8 or 9 seeds every year....

 

[Bluesnky]

Love all the posters who say nothing when AH is having great games, but can't get to their keyboards fast enough if he has a bad one.

And start worrying about whether or not he will be here next year. I mean who gives AS right now.

 

[new era cat]

I think people forget Hagans is supposed to be a senior in High School. He reclassified. I think the schedule of playing twice a week in what has been one, if not the toughest SEC schedules a John Calipari PG has seen l, is really taking a toll on him. He has been in a bit of a rough stretch the last couple of weeks but is he as bad as people in this thread are making him out to be? Not even close

Hagans is a pro. Just not right now and Cal doesn't care. Must kick him to the NBA whether he is ready or not. If this doesn't happen, they won't come and he is screwed.

 

[d2atTech]

This should put an end to any notion that Hagans will go pro. He's not ready at all. Neither is Herro or surprisingly Keldon.

won't stop any of them except Herro. Hagans, Keldon, PJ gone after this season.

 

[Cardsstink]

Hagans is a pro. Just not right now and Cal doesn't care. Must kick him to the NBA whether he is ready or not. If this doesn't happen, they won't come and he is screwed.

How come you didn't push this narrative during the 10 game winning streak? Heck, you barely said anything at all. #shameless

 

[akavff]

waters has a sick crossover

 

[Dbarr003]

Waters still had 15 points, and got around the rim pretty regularly against Hagans.

In the first half, Waters scored 3 points against Hagans and went 1 for 2 with a 3 pointer. He scored 4 points on two Quickley fouls, but didn't make a basket.

In the second half, if I am not mistaken, Waters scored all 8 of his points while Hagans was in the game. He just went 2-5, but he was getting into the lane, and picked up his two second half assists while Hagans was in the game, but due to his driving (the second was the 3 pointer where everyone followed Waters and PJ left Reid open for a three). Waters also, at least once, put up a missed layup that was rebounded and put back by the offense and might has well have been an assist. However, to be fair... Hagans fouled Waters just once in the second half, so two of the free throws that Waters made were when he was running around Herro's ankles and Herro tripped over him.

Point being... the second half was not a great defensive effort by Hagans. Waters didn't put up great numbers, but he created and got around Hagans and doing that caused the defense to shift and made it easier for LSU to score and get rebounds. In short, he did what great point guards do... he created, even if it doesn't show up on a box score.

I wasn't trying to argue that Hagans was the reason I only gave Waters a B(which is still an above average game). I actually thought Quickly did pretty well against him at least on defense. Not sure how many rebounds they got off the missed shots but I would be surprised if we didn't rebound 70+% of his missed shots.

 

[Schwagg]

Experienced guard play is still the most important asset to have during crunch time of critical games.