"His shooting has improved"

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

I've heard this said about Keldon Johnson. Whenever I hear this applied to a recruit, that scares me. IMO, shooting is a natural gift. If you got it, you got it. Bad shooters can always improve but they can just as easily revert back to their bad form. Give me a natural shooter with average athleticism over a good athlete who can't throw it in the ocean.

 

[Jmeeks54thebest]

eh, it can go both ways. Some guys are born with athletic gifts but others do put it a lot of time to be good shooters. I think Curry is one who claims to have put in a lot shots at practice.

It all depends on how fast you can develop the muscle memory of your release.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

eh, it can go both ways. Some guys are born with athletic gifts but others do put it a lot of time to be good shooters. I think Curry is one who claims to have put in a lot shots at practice.

It all depends on how fast you can develop the muscle memory of your release.

True but as far as Curry goes, that's in his genes. His dad Dell was arguably a better shooter than Steph.

 

[21Goose]

I'd take MKG on my team any day.

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

You're right that some dudes are just born better than others, and have less trouble developing it. But tons and tons of players get better at shooting throughout their careers. Not all, but many. It's definitely something that you can become better at, especially compared to other factors that you truly can't improve (by an appreciable degree, at least). 95+% of NBA players will never, no matter what they do, have Anthony Davis's wingspan, John Wall's speed, etc.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

No such thing as a natural shooter. Good shooting form and accuracy are learned.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

No such thing as a natural shooter. Good shooting form and accuracy are learned.

That's not true. If that's the case, then there's no such thing as a natural hitter in baseball. Ken Griffey Jr, was a natural.

 

[jrpross]

Doron Lamb was an “OK” 3-point shooter in high school but very good from mid-range. The same has been said for Johnson. Sometimes once a kid learns to shoot, all he needs is a lot of reps from longer range to extend it out.

Not saying that will definitely happen with Johnson but it absolutely can.

 

[CincinnatiWildcat]

Funny how the two people mentioned as naturals Steph Curry and Ken Griffey Jr both had dad's that played their respective sport proffesionally so they have been around the game their whole lives.... practicing

 

[harlanhomeboy]

Buddy Hield, if I recall correctly, went from awful shooter and a nobody as a freshman to 1st Team All-American and great shooter as a senior.

 

[caneintally]

I have never thought of Johnson as anything but a very good shooter ( not a great one ) so I don't have this concern at all.

 

[bookerfan66]

That it's getting better is proof the kid has been working hard at improving.It looks to me that the kid has good form at his shot and it should keep getting better.I'm really excited about this kid.

 

[mj2k10]

True but as far as Curry goes, that's in his genes. His dad Dell was arguably a better shooter than Steph.

Dell Curry was a superb shooter, but that's an insane argument to make. Steph has made more 3 pointers in just the last 4 years than Dell made in an over 1000 game career. And he's hit them at a higher %. And he's a better FT shooter.

Steph Curry was naturally gifted, and he worked at it obsessively.

 

[Jmeeks54thebest]

True but as far as Curry goes, that's in his genes. His dad Dell was arguably a better shooter than Steph.

Never saw Dell. Might have to look him up. But I would argue that since his dad was a shooter wouldn't he have coached his kids on shooting? Both his sons are good shooters, in large part because they had a great shooter raising them.

I studied sports biology in college and traits of skill are more often than not developed from practice. We studied the "10,000 Hour Rule" which dictates that anyone can become an expert on anything if they practice it for 10,000 hours. Some people, however, don't need the full 10,000 hours, and their genes do play a big part in how quickly they develop the talent for which they practice.

In short: it's a mix of genes and hard work.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Shooting is literally the easiest skill to improve in basketball. It's form plus repetition. It's the definition of a skill you can practice and improve.

That's why you see so many people improve it.

Who's the last guy who was never a rebounder or shot blocker or passer who suddenly became a great one?

 

[Thompkins4uk]

I prefer Grimes

 

[spotter34]

I've heard this said about Keldon Johnson. Whenever I hear this applied to a recruit, that scares me. IMO, shooting is a natural gift. If you got it, you got it. Bad shooters can always improve but they can just as easily revert back to their bad form. Give me a natural shooter with average athleticism over a good athlete who can't throw it in the ocean.

Who wouldn’t take a natural shooter with average athleticism over a good athlete who can’t throw it in the ocean? But what about a good athlete that’s an average shooter? That’s closer to what we’re talking about here.

Shooting can definitely be improved but there are obstacles that are hard to overcome for some players like the size of a players hands. That’s what Rondo has tried to overcome his entire career.

 

[docholiday51]

Whoops,thought this was a thread about UL or UT football players

 

[Bluegrassking]

Sounds like someone who might well take Dell Curry over Michael Jordan or would pass on MKG in favor of Cameron Mills or some such foolishness.

 

[morgousky]

Decent shooting can be learned, but being a goat shooter comes naturally. Some guys just have a nose for the net.

1. I don't care who your dad is, you cannot learn to swing a bat like KGJr. End of story. And I'm a cardinals fan.

2. You cannot learn to shoot like Curry.

3. Liggins cannot learn to shoot like
Ray Allen.

I probably won't respond to someone's debating this because it's not worth it. Those are facts.

For the majority of athletes, just like any other human, practice can make you really, really good. But you will never have the natural ability of the top tier in each category unless you are one. For those that have actually played high level sports, or played against guys who went on to high level sports, you know the ones I'm talking about.

I know that's conflating multiple posters but I just wanted to throw that in.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I think the point to be made here is that without proper instruction and LOTS of practice, no one can be good. We've all watched as some dude shoots a basketball and we can tell he's never had any instruction. Elbows out, push with both hand, release on the way up on his jump. I like the 10,000 hour theory mentioned above. Maybe a "natural" has shooting perfected at 5,000 hours and looks like Ray Allen when he shoots. There are plenty of others that could put in the full 10,000 hours and never look as good.

 

[TeleTubby]

Shooting is a learned skill. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. So is swinging a bat. Here's the key...the younger you can get someone to practice perfect form, the better. Also see: Tiger Woods.

 

[FFWhite]

Great genes, beginning to build muscle memory at a early age and 10,000 hours will make great shooters.

 

[The_Answer1313]

It's a bit a both.

It's more that your just born with that ability, but even if you are born with it, you still need practice to perfect it.

 

[EMMCAT]

Shooting is literally the easiest skill to improve in basketball. It's form plus repetition. It's the definition of a skill you can practice and improve.

That's why you see so many people improve it.

Who's the last guy who was never a rebounder or shot blocker or passer who suddenly became a great one?

Great shooting or even average shooting is a combination of physical gifts augmented by practice. Look at Goodwin, Liggens and Briscoe who were all released yesterday. Despite being otherwise physically gifted, and practicing their hearts out, none has become an average shooter by NBA standards. Shooting itself requires a special physical gift. Can players improve? Absolutely . Look at LBJ,he's a much better shooter than when he entered the league. But God giveth and taketh away. Booker can shoot. Briscoe can't.

 

[Jmeeks54thebest]

Decent shooting can be learned, but being a goat shooter comes naturally. Some guys just have a nose for the net.

1. I don't care who your dad is, you cannot learn to swing a bat like KGJr. End of story. And I'm a cardinals fan.

2. You cannot learn to shoot like Curry.

3. Liggins cannot learn to shoot like
Ray Allen.

I probably won't respond to someone's debating this because it's not worth it. Those are facts.

For the majority of athletes, just like any other human, practice can make you really, really good. But you will never have the natural ability of the top tier in each category unless you are one. For those that have actually played high level sports, or played against guys who went on to high level sports, you know the ones I'm talking about.

I know that's conflating multiple posters but I just wanted to throw that in.

Without starting a major debate I would suggest that you read about the 10,000 rule. It's a tried and tested theory.

It basically states that anyone can become an expert on anything after practicing it for 10,000 hours. People like Curry have probably already put in 10,000+ hours into their craft.

Additionally, some people don't need all 10,000 hours. They master the skill quicker, and that is where genes come in.

 

[Travis Graf]

Otto Porter couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at Gtown, now he's a top 10 3-pt shooter in the NBA.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Great shooting or even average shooting is a combination of physical gifts augmented by practice. Look at Goodwin, Liggens and Briscoe who were all released yesterday. Despite being otherwise physically gifted, and practicing their hearts out, none has become an average shooter by NBA standards. Shooting itself requires a special physical gift. Can players improve? Absolutely . Look at LBJ,he's a much better shooter than when he entered the league. But God giveth and taketh away. Booker can shoot. Briscoe can't.

Those guys don't practice properly or enough then.

Obviously there are factors like spatial reasoning, depth perception, balance, hand-eye coordination, etc. that make some people great shooters faster than others, and starting at a young age greatly helps the process move quickly and gives you longer to do more reps properly and ingrain that muscle memory, but guys like Kawhi Leonard didn't somehow get more physically gifted from 20 to 25 to go from a 17% shooter from deep to 40-something percent.

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

Keldon is a shot maker. He has a great midrange game and attacks the basket well. His biggest setback is finishing on the left hand side. His game is similar to Paul Pierce.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Shooting is far from a natural ability...like, light years away from being a natural ability.

 

[Joneslab]

Deandre Liggins on line one.

Also: Darius Miller on line two. Miller came in with a hitch. Looked like he was shooting it out of a bazooka. Graduated as one of the best outside shooters this program has ever seen.

You can absolutely learn to shoot the basketball. It is true that *most* of these preternaturally good shooters became that way from work they put in in their formative years, but the NBA is chock full of guys who couldn't hit the broad side in college and now are making a living as spot-up shooters.

 

[C5matt]

I've heard this said about Keldon Johnson. Whenever I hear this applied to a recruit, that scares me. IMO, shooting is a natural gift. If you got it, you got it. Bad shooters can always improve but they can just as easily revert back to their bad form. Give me a natural shooter with average athleticism over a good athlete who can't throw it in the ocean.

Is he considering reclassifying and joining the current UK class this year??

 

[Fox2monk]

That it's getting better is proof the kid has been working hard at improving.It looks to me that the kid has good form at his shot and it should keep getting better.I'm really excited about this kid.

His midrange game is great. I have the upmost confidence he can be a great shooter from three. Doron had a great midrange and he was lights out.

 

[Hoskins21]

I've heard this said about Keldon Johnson. Whenever I hear this applied to a recruit, that scares me. IMO, shooting is a natural gift. If you got it, you got it. Bad shooters can always improve but they can just as easily revert back to their bad form. Give me a natural shooter with average athleticism over a good athlete who can't throw it in the ocean.

Sorry, shooting is NOT a natural gift. It is a skill that is learned and perfected. Bad post IMO.

 

[The_Answer1313]

If I go outside and shoot a basketball for 10,000 hours will I improve? Yeah probably.

Will I become Devin Booker? Hell no.

So it’s both. There’s a limit to how far practice can get you with it

 

[catrecruit]

Shooting is like golf....the earlier you learn the fundamentals, the better you are down the road

Not impossible to get good.but much easier by starting early in life

 

[Jakarii]

Exactly. It’s actually 95% or more get better at shooting. Very few don’t get better at shooting

You're right that some dudes are just born better than others, and have less trouble developing it. But tons and tons of players get better at shooting throughout their careers. Not all, but many. It's definitely something that you can become better at, especially compared to other factors that you truly can't improve (by an appreciable degree, at least). 95+% of NBA players will never, no matter what they do, have Anthony Davis's wingspan, John Wall's speed, etc.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

Sorry, shooting is NOT a natural gift. It is a skill that is learned and perfected. Bad post IMO.

Devin Booker says hello!

 

[Joneslab]

Devin Booker says hello!

But that's really not the point of the thread.

Nobody is talking about Johnson as a preternatural shooter like Booker. The original post only speaks about "improvement."

The thing about some of these athletic freaks is that they don't need to be great shooters to be devastating players. You can't be Isaiah Briscoe and be super impactful, but there are many increments between Briscoe and Booker. Most players are inside those two poles--and they absolutely can improve.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Devin Booker says hello!

I mean if you think Devin Booker was just born a great shooter in the face of both scientific evidence and countless examples that disprove your theory, I don't know what to tell you.

You could quit your job, go outside and spend your life becoming a better three point shooter than Devin Booker. Ever see those old guy shooting coaches that can make like 50,000 FTs in a row? Think they were born fantastic shooters?

No. Devin Booker just practiced an insane amount *on top of* supreme physical gifts, opportunities, mental make-up, guidance, etc.

No one is arguing you can be the exact same as him. We're saying if you both stood at the top of the key and shot 100 times, you could practice and beat him. If he were born that way, it wouldn't be possible.