Thanks, Grumpy, but my point was/is do mere allegations, without further, substantiating proof, constitute the requisite grounds under a contract for invoking the "for for cause" clause?
Good Ole Mel Tucker….
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Thanks, Grumpy, but my point was/is do mere allegations, without further, substantiating proof, constitute the requisite grounds under a contract for invoking the "for for cause" clause?
Grumpy? That's what #2 was referring to. If they decide to fire him with cause simply based on allegations, then Tucker would have to take them to court to prove that he was fired without cause. The court would then decide if it was with or without cause. This is relatively common in firings when the coach takes the university to court to try and prove they were fired without cause.
I don't know why a Title IX process makes this any more of an issue than your guard and variety "hanky-panky"....but his side can be proved if his statements are valid....this in no way is grounds for not paying Tucker his contract out in full.
In his statement, Tucker once again confirmed that he had a late night conversation over the phone with Tracy, which is at the heart of her allegations.
However, in his version of events, Tucker says that Tracy "initiated the discussion that night, sent me a provocative picture of the two of us together, suggested what she may look like without clothes, and never once during the 36 minutes did she object in any manner, much less hang up the phone."
In USA Today's report, Tucker described the phone call to the investigator as "consensual phone sex" between him and Tracy. He maintained that assertion in his statement.
"While I am saddened by Ms. Tracy's disclosure of the sensitive nature of this call, let me be perfectly clear—it was an entirely mutual, private event between two adults living at opposite ends of the country," Tucker said.
Tucker claims that Tracy gave him "every indication that everything was fine" in the months following the private phone call, saying Tracy even sent him a 'Happy Father's Day' card two months after their conversation that night, and expressing a desire to return to Michigan State.
Tucker also claims that the investigation conducted by a third-party attorney for MSU is not actually a Title IX investigation.
"That's inaccurate," Tucker wrote. "The University admitted there is no Title IX jurisdiction, so the investigation of my private life was relegated to an alleged policy violation."
Tucker said the University's investigation was not fair or unbiased, but a way to get out of paying him the full 10-year, $95 million contract extension he signed in 2021.
Title IX makes it more of an issue because it's a federal law that prohibits things such as sexual harassment and sexual violence at universities that receive federal funding. She filed an official Title IX complaint through the university awhile back. She is alleging that he fits into that category. If she is proven wrong and his statements are proven correct, then yes, he would be owed the $80 million for being fired without cause. This is going to be a he said/she said that will go to the courts.
But, the guys you listed were never accused of what Tucker is being accused of. That is the difference. If any of those guys were accused of something that the accuser put in a formal Title IX complaint, you better believe the university would have acted in the same way Michigan State is acting.
ok, thanks. But my point has nothing to do with consensual...merely do allegations alone, without requisite corroborative proof, provide the requisite "cause" for the school to invoke the firing
Schools can fire anyone at anytime for anything. They can say the firing is for cause solely based on allegations. If the allegations are proven to be false, then they would owe the coach the full buy-out.
Thank you. So the answer is yes, they can invoke the termination clause, even if the allegations are baseless, but if baseless, they would face liability.
LoL you are being so silly. There's a big damn difference between a coach having an affair with a willing participant and neither she nor his wife he cheats on going public about it........and a woman who files a formal Title IX complaint to the employer, a state university, a part of the state government, and also discusses the incidents to ESPN and USA Today.
Even if, even if everything Tucker admits to is the truth....he still deserves to be fired! He still deserves $0.00 payout of his contract! He pursued a sexual relationship with a Michigan State vendor, who was compensated for her services to the university with university funds, state tax dollars. And he jacked off to her while on a university work trip, on company time!
I mean it doesn't matter what we say here, Tucker's lawyer statement shows he knows game over. He gets fired in Oct, he sues for his contract, he never coaches another day for Mich St.
So, if she sent pics to him, if she texted him with sexual natured communication....heck she even allegedly sent him a Happy Fathers Day card months after these encounters she alleged disturbed her to file a lawsuit.....I mean she certainly didn't act like a woman that was stalked sexually by a predator if Tucker's side of the story is true.
And here is the rub....his allegations are 100% verifiable as her texts and communications as well as timelines will be provable or not.
If MSU wants to fire him...all coaches can be fired at the discretion of the school. But the schools have no right to not payout the contracts for weakass stuff like this is were I draw the line. This feels like MSU sees Tucker missing a bowl game after signing that massive contract and having buyers remorse more than any sexual purity by that university. Heck...their turning the other cheek for Tom Izzo shows me they had no righteous value to begin with.
I’ll bet you they still pay him a portion of his buyout because he knows state secrets if you get my meaning ? If they announce a settlement and not an outright firing then they have something to hide !
It’s “garden variety,” but maybe you were typing too fast paste lol
I don’t know what Tucker did or did not do, except we all know he masterbated while talking with a woman who now claims she was offended. We know, by many people’s definition, he was unfaithful to his wife in that act, if consensual, and a pervert if as claimed by the woman. But, it’s the ongoing MSU narrative that he has added to that really hurts MSU.
Mel Tucker allegation falls in long line of sexual misconduct issues at Michigan State
The university has faced scrutiny for its handling of Title IX and sexual misconduct cases for years.
www.freep.com
Regardless, looks like Tucker is going to need to find a new roll after this won…
I get that I'm older than most if not all of you. As an 87 year old man that was married for more than 60 years before my wife passed, I will say this: I've always wanted to have sex with a 25 year old that looked like the girl Bobby Petrino had sex with. Unfortunately for me, I never was good enough looking or had enough money to have the opportunity. Looking back, if I had the opportunity, I can say now that I would have said no in respect to my dear wife and kids, but never having the opportunity, who knows. When Tiger Woods got in all of his trouble, I told my wife that I'd been faithful to her since we married, but, I didn't have models asking me to have sex every weekend. It was tons easier for me than it was for Tiger.
LOL, if someone gave me $80.000.000 to not coach, I wouldn't complain about anything. I might build a home theater (or four or five) to watch some other coach sweat out a game.
How long can this madness go on?
I do find it hard to believe that a guy with $95 mil at stake would take such a careless risk and harass a "sexual harassment consultant" at a school coming off one of the most horrendous scandals in history. That's just a little too much for me.
Also, since when is pulling your own pud an assault on someone else? If that along with "gifts, advancements, and filrting..." are going to be against the law then we're slipping down a slippery slope into a weird dystopian future with that.
Unless the pud pulling is up close and in person, I'm not sure anyone can say that's assault. Inappropriate, weird, off putting...sure...a crime, no.
I think the biggest issue today is what sexual harassment is or isn't seems to be so fluid and up to the individual.
The headlines often read like this situation..."Sexual Assault..." and naturally we all think the worst and the reaction is "fire him.... lock him up...guilty as charged."
Then it comes out and nowhere in any documents is there any record or eyewitnesses that can speak to physical aggression and harm...but instead what boils down to a man trying to holler at a woman...courting/flirting...
Also, since when is pulling your own pud an assault on someone else? If that along with "gifts, advancements, and filrting..." are going to be against the law then we're slipping down a slippery slope into a weird dystopian future with that.
Unless the pud pulling is up close and in person, I'm not sure anyone can say that's assault. Inappropriate, weird, off putting...sure...a crime, no.
I think the biggest issue today is what sexual harassment is or isn't seems to be so fluid and up to the individual.
The headlines often read like this situation..."Sexual Assault..." and naturally we all think the worst and the reaction is "fire him.... lock him up...guilty as charged."
Then it comes out and nowhere in any documents is there any record or eyewitnesses that can speak to physical aggression and harm...but instead what boils down to a man trying to holler at a woman...courting/flirting...
Just so we don't get lost in the weeds, a reminder of who Tracey is and what she does:
Brenda Tracey gets up in front of 100 young men & tells them.the story of how when she was in a group of football players held her down & took turns raping her. Schools like Michigan State pay her to do this to shock their players into never ever being close to a situation like that.
Mel Tucker heard her story & found her sexually attractive. game over, dude, you're dun.
Brenda Tracey gets up in front of 100 young men & tells them.the story of how when she was in a group of football players held her down & took turns raping her. Schools like Michigan State pay her to do this to shock their players into never ever being close to a situation like that.
Mel Tucker heard her story & found her sexually attractive. game over, dude, you're dun.
Regardless if someone considers it sexual assault or not, language in his contract would also most likely cover having phone sex and an inappropriate relationship with a contracted individual of the university under the stipulation in his contract that states he can be fired with cause based on: "The coach engages in any conduct which constitutes moral turpitude or which in the University's reasonable Judgment, would tend to bring public disrespect, contempt, or ridicule upon he University"
Great. Let him show the pic and the Happy Father's Day text... oh, wait, he deleted all of his texts from her....
Of course the behavior is detestable and he deserves fired. The timing is curious. Sure seems like this was at least a year old. Wonder how much would be heard about it if he were winning.
Much like the les miles issues Kansas made sure to resurface even though they were the results of a report/investigation conducted by LSU a few years before he left there.
For most things, winning cures all. Skeletons start coming out when they want to fire these guys. It's all in the game
Much like the les miles issues Kansas made sure to resurface even though they were the results of a report/investigation conducted by LSU a few years before he left there.
For most things, winning cures all. Skeletons start coming out when they want to fire these guys. It's all in the game
Title IX is a federal law that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex. Michigan State’s relationship, violence and sexual misconduct policy is broader and is what applies in the allegations against Tucker, according to Michigan State spokeswoman Emily Guerrant.
Both fall under the purview of the university’s Office of Civil Rights and, under law, the Title IX coordinator has authority to suspend students and employees amid an investigation.
Both fall under the purview of the university’s Office of Civil Rights and, under law, the Title IX coordinator has authority to suspend students and employees amid an investigation.
So let's look at another perspective on this
1. Mel Tucker was a career assistant who was mainly a recruiter at Bama and UGA.....I'll let @Grumpyolddawg indicate how much of the defense Tucker's fingerprints vs. Kirby running that side of the ball.
2. Then he gets Colorado coaching gig and goes a whopping 5-7....to which Michigan st decides to offer him the Spartan job. Then he goes 2-5 in Covid year and then 11-2 in 2020. But he still finished 3rd in his own division behind Ohio St and Michigan. Sparty gets the Black Lives matter complex and awards him a 10 year 95M contract. Then 5-7 last season and now MSU is like we need to get out of this mess of a contract.
3. So this woman shows up to be an expert in how to talk to mainly black 20 year old football players about sex for 10k a pop (I wonder why a staff of grown men can't educate kids on how to deal with sexual behavior) and sexual allegnation arise....I wonder why MSU is all over getting rid of Tucker?
4. A 30 minute phone call with a guy whacking it...and a trained expert can't hang up the phone? Do you honestly think Tucker's side wont have some credibility that she was flirting, texting, communication with him before and after this event?
All parties are dirtbags....Tucker for sure (he's married and even if they were estranged he should be better at 51 yeaers old), she looks like a MeToo feminist and MSU looks like a greedy bunch of clowns in this all. MSU made a crazy decision to give all this money to tucker who is barely a .500 coach.
One addendum to your #2 K Time.....LSU fired Ogeron after UK whoopin in Oct 2021. Because of Mich St success that yr & his SEC history, Tucker was listed as a strong candidate. So the huge contract was a panic move to keep LSU from grabbing him in Nov.
If MSU jumped to pay Tucker, just think what Colorado will need to do for Dieon. The man is 2-0 against P5 completion (one ranked) in his first two games. His offense looks fun. He has a five year, $29.5 million contract and has every announcer who calls his games and numerous former NFL players touting him as the best thing ever for young star players. And, he has a national profile.
The CU AD is probably trying to negotiate a new deal 2 games in. Think some SEC school won’t top his current pay?
I mentioned that in another thread and posters suggested that a coach leaving creates a waiver. I think you are correct, but others disagree.
Must disagree. There's no such thing as entitlement to that kind of money. If you expect to be paid it, you'd better be prepared to be held to a higher and even hypocritical standard. I'll not cry for Mel Tucker.
This comment suggests Tucker is gone and is trying to leverage a settlement so he gets money.
"I can only conclude that there is an ulterior motive designed to terminate my contract based on some other factor, such as a desire to avoid any [Nassar] taint, or my race or gender," Tucker, who is Black, said in the statement.
"I can only conclude that there is an ulterior motive designed to terminate my contract based on some other factor, such as a desire to avoid any [Nassar] taint, or my race or gender," Tucker, who is Black, said in the statement.
Serious question here.Did something similar happen to you? This isn't the first time you've tried to gloss this over for Bobby Neckbrace by saying he was seduced.
Bobby Neckbrace was a 50 year old grown ass man who was the face of the state university's football program and by default, arguably the most important man in the state. He was banging her and hired her into a job in the athletic department so he could have easier access/cover to continue banging her. He had enough hubris to think it'd be a good idea to take her on a motorcycle ride, and when he had the 🙄"wreck" 🙄, he lied to the Arkansas Highway Patrol, his boss, his team, the media and the fans about what happened.
BTW, there were also 200 or so text messages between Bobby Neckbrace and some pinup model in Little Rock. Oh these dastardly, scheming women...🤣
The bottom line is that Bobby Neckbrace had no one but himself to blame but himself for losing his job.
Btw, texts are never really gone. A subpoena to the phone company can get access to them. So it’ll come out eventually what was really said.
That's not necessarily the case. Most providers only store the content for a short period of time, and then it is gone forever. Now, if either party saved the messages in a phone, totally different story.
Yeah. They could be stored in a random iCloud backup, etc. With that kind of money on the line, I’m certain they’ll exhaust every avenue.
No doubt- at the very least, even if the contents are gone, they shouldat least be able to retreive the timeline and who sent messages at what time.
If Tucker really did delete the messages, then he's either culpable of at least some liability, or he made a colossal blunder by deleting or failing to make sure to preserve the texts. If this thing was as consensual as he says, he should have known, based on the woman's position and his own position, that this was a high risk affair, and saving the texts could exonerate him. This is going to sound mean of me to say, but, if you're wanting to have a relationship and especially an unprofessional one, with a professional female rights advocate, you better cover your ass.
