Why am I arguing with you about this like you'd change your mind anyways? Im gonna work now.
Global Climate Changes
- Thread starter Caveman Catfan
- Start date
Why am I arguing with you about this like you'd change your mind anyways? Im gonna work now.
True. The gross generalization approach will not change my mind or make me believe you have a government solution. Have a good day!
You're kind of proving my point though. Not once did I mention a solution. Impossible to have an honest conversation on this topic when we can't establish a baseline for facts due to perceived agenda.
And now Im gonna work for real
60 Vehicles Buried, 1,000 Trapped At Death Valley - Videos from The Weather Channel
A record amount of rainfall in the typically dry Death Valley National Park has caused serious damage. Roads were closed, vehicles were buried and some people were stuck in the park. - Videos from The Weather Channel | weather.com
weather.com
Most or 2nd most rainfall in over 100 years.
Yeah, you said that I refuse solutions, as if solutions existed. If you mean something other than the government/political solutions that are repeated daily, then I am interested to hear what you mean by “solutions.”
I am sorry that I don’t buy your “proof” that says we are impacting the environment and therefore we are the cause of climate change or that this is a life-or-death problem. I don’t think your analysis is proof of either.
This has been described as an “existential threat.” If that were true, the excuses for not going nuclear, even in the short term, for energy would not exist.
Except I never said that, so your whole premise is incorrect. Again, not once did I mention solutions.
It is truly sad to me that Republicans led the way on environmentalism for decades and now reject it as a fallacy. Nixon created the EPA and signed the Clean Air and Water Act. Bush 1 ran on protecting the environment. The fact that people would willingly gobble up the BS put out there by the petroleum interests is a sign of how far we have fallen as a country.
I admit it appears I misunderstood your point above as saying I was ignoring solutions.
There is a huge distinction between saying it is “easy to see how humans could adversely impact” climate to concluding the current climate trend is man-made. And, as stated, it is an even greater leap to say solutions exist. Ignoring proposed solutions gets us no where.
If I did not agree with your causation hypothesis, I still might agree to proposed solutions. If you said chewing a piece of gum every day would fix my arthritic pain, I may not believe you, but still could agree to the low cost proposed remedy. So, it is important to hear solutions, because they may not be disagreeable. If we just spent 400 billion toward nuclear development, I would probably be on board, because I see the benefits beyond the discussion subject.
You wanna help your chronic joint inflammation:
1. Cold shower
2. Cold plunge
3. Meditate/pray 25 minutes a day
4. Yoga
5. Sauna
6. Eat an anti inflammatory diet. Mainly from god’s garden. Nothing fried. Replace chips with trail mix and blueberries, blackberries, oranges, pecans. Eat a little fish and a little eggs. Drink More water, less other fluid.
And it was only 1-1/2 inches.60 Vehicles Buried, 1,000 Trapped At Death Valley - Videos from The Weather Channel
A record amount of rainfall in the typically dry Death Valley National Park has caused serious damage. Roads were closed, vehicles were buried and some people were stuck in the park. - Videos from The Weather Channel | weather.com
Most or 2nd most rainfall in over 100 years.
Did you not see the air measurements done over India during the first couple months of Covid when little airplane travel was allowed
Dunno. If concerned, Ease into a 30 second cold shower at first and every week add 15 seconds until you can cold shower for 3 minutes.
ease into sauna for 5-10 minutes, until you can work your way up to 25 minutes
anyone can do yoga
everyone can eat cleaner
anyone can meditate and pray
You got this
Just because someone doesn’t believe the govt can “fix” the climate doesn’t mean said person is against environmentalism. A ton of people on the right I know are huge conservationists and do what they can to take care of nature when they are out hiking or hunting and use as much of an animal as they can when killing one.
There’s nothing clean about how solar panels and wind mills are built or destroyed. And if you don’t think the govt avoiding nuclear generation in favor of solar/wind and battery storage technology that isn’t even close to adequate is anything but payouts to specific diners and/or money laundering, you are willfully ignorant.
We can’t run our grids on renewable energy right now. Anyone saying you can has zero knowledge of how energy works. By forcing this shift before the technology is ready, the govt is adding massive costs and hardships for no reason other than to send money to specific companies or groups. The end.
It used to be part of the platform. Now they actively work against it.
Not sure where the rest of your post came from but I agree on about a lot of the logistical/technical stuff.
-one can be an environmentalist** without buying into alarmist dogma.
^when the "answer" is taxation* and oversight by international bureaucracy...those of us with a grasp of history are gonna be a bit skeptical.
*primarily aimed at western Europe and the US. It is 100% a wealth distribution scheme. The usual suspects will be in charge/benefit of course.
**the environmental movement was co-opted/moved hard left after the fall of the USSR. Prominent lefties in the west had to land somewhere after their ideal society collapsed. Green is the new red, as they say.
^none of this is to say we shouldn't take environmental issues seriously and take appropriate *measured* action. Collapsing our economy ceding control to the international bureaucrat class is not the answer...it's suicide. Yet here we are.
^when the "answer" is taxation* and oversight by international bureaucracy...those of us with a grasp of history are gonna be a bit skeptical.
*primarily aimed at western Europe and the US. It is 100% a wealth distribution scheme. The usual suspects will be in charge/benefit of course.
**the environmental movement was co-opted/moved hard left after the fall of the USSR. Prominent lefties in the west had to land somewhere after their ideal society collapsed. Green is the new red, as they say.
^none of this is to say we shouldn't take environmental issues seriously and take appropriate *measured* action. Collapsing our economy ceding control to the international bureaucrat class is not the answer...it's suicide. Yet here we are.
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Again, not being pro Green New Deal or trusting the govt to tax-and-fix something as complex as our climate is in no way the same as being anti-environment.
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Impact of lockdown on air quality in India during COVID-19 pandemic - PMC
First time in India, total lockdown was announced on 22 March 2020 to stop the spread of COVID-19 and the lockdown was extended for 21 days on 24 March 2020 in the first phase. During the total lockdown, most of the sources for poor air quality were ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Read the article.
There are certain truths that apply to both sides and are universal:
Literally NO ONE is against helping/improving the environment.
Related to that... NO ONE is against "Green Energy" as a concept.
Then there are certain truths that should be universal... but maybe aren't:
There's no point in getting rid of a energy source unless a cost-comparable, plentiful alternative is readily available (especially when said energy source is one the most cost effective per BTU).
Science... and scientists? If I pay you enough money, I can get you you to say ANYTHING.
Once folks (liberals) understand these facts, we can move forward at a MUCH faster pace IMO. Until then... waste of time even discussing it...
Literally NO ONE is against helping/improving the environment.
Related to that... NO ONE is against "Green Energy" as a concept.
Then there are certain truths that should be universal... but maybe aren't:
There's no point in getting rid of a energy source unless a cost-comparable, plentiful alternative is readily available (especially when said energy source is one the most cost effective per BTU).
Science... and scientists? If I pay you enough money, I can get you you to say ANYTHING.
Once folks (liberals) understand these facts, we can move forward at a MUCH faster pace IMO. Until then... waste of time even discussing it...
Assuming this isn't garbage research...Impact of lockdown on air quality in India during COVID-19 pandemic - PMC
First time in India, total lockdown was announced on 22 March 2020 to stop the spread of COVID-19 and the lockdown was extended for 21 days on 24 March 2020 in the first phase. During the total lockdown, most of the sources for poor air quality were ...
Read the article.
Get India (and China) to stop polluting.
Problem solved... get back to us when that happens lol.
And?
Taking care of the environment does not require giving more money to the govt to fix it. If you disagree, that’s fine. Personally I don’t think the govt can fix much of anything, certainly not the environment. And thinking that way doesn’t make me love nature any less.
Excellent. Libs are very good at taking actual problems and co-opting them for their socialist dreams. (see covid, climate, etc).
Never let a good crisis go to waste, as they say.
Page 12 and counting . . . .
Anyone change their mind yet or learn anything new (that they are willing to admit to publicly, I should add)?
Anyone change their mind yet or learn anything new (that they are willing to admit to publicly, I should add)?
There is a difference between pro the items you listed and anti regulation. It’s not a binary choice. And I’m not advocating for democrat policies, simply lamenting the Republican parties shift away from the issue.
There are plenty of businesses that destroy the environment and could give a damn. The idea that no one is against improving the climate is ridiculous. If this were not the case there’d be no issue in the first place.
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Q&A: Scientists Analyze How the Pandemic Affected Air Quality - NASA
The coronavirus pandemic has changed the way we live, and several studies have documented how those widespread changes in human behavior have impacted the
www.nasa.gov
From NASA, as they discuss air quality in the USA during the lockdown
Actually yes. I was a little skeptical but leaning towards environmental measures as I saw first hand what some of these companies left unchecked did to the land around them(grew up in WV). However some of these posts have made me double think that as some posters have brought up great points. Although like a unicorn there are some open minded moderates like us around!
1. Try looking into the amount of greenhouse gases spewed into the atmosphere by volcanic activity. It dwarfs human activity.
2. Ever heard of red tides? Massive colonies of harmful red algae that are visible from space. They also kill ocean based life on a massive scale.
3 and 4. Your agenda is showing. Fossil fuels have been the engine of progress across the globe for over 100 years. More people have risen out of poverty due to fossil fuels than by any other single advancement. Fossil fuels have provided easy and cheap access to food, medicine, tools of industry and allowed population movements on a scale entirely impossible before the combustion engine. It is most likely impossible to put a number on how many lives have been saved by fossil fuels. And we haven't even begun to discuss the improvements to human quality of life afforded by plastics, polymers and solvents.
Humans aren't going anywhere and neither are fossil fuels and their petroleum derivatives.
Tell you what...you get money and politics out of climate science and I'll give it a look.
Under no circumstances was the EPA was created to have imminent domain over private farm lands and levy taxes based on an entirely arbitrary formula to calculate an individual's carbon output.
Show me a plan to SLOWLY migrate from reliance on fossil fuels to supply the national power grid over say, a 50-100 time frame and I'll be on board. Stop the constant brow-beating of completely artificial deadlines to meet certain standards or the world is gonna end crap. People always respond negatively to that stuff.
Lastly, show me how India and China are EVER going to be on board with reducing their own greenhouse gas emissions and I'll take be ready to sign up. Both have ZERO interests in curbing anything and it is economic suicide for the US to try and go it alone.
One is easy because it’s incorrect.
Which emits more carbon dioxide: volcanoes or human activities?
Human activities emit 60 or more times the amount of carbon dioxide released by volcanoes each year.
And again, arguing that other factors alter climate actually reinforces the sensitivity of the climate.
This isn’t an argument on benefits of consuming energy. No one needs to be sold on why electricity is helpful. I think you can draw the conclusion of what that means.
NASA scientists and others using data from NASA and our partner satellites have shown that air pollution levels dropped significantly during COVID-19. A new, NASA-funded study, conducted by scientists at The George Washington University (GW) in Washington, D.C., zoomed in on the 15 largest metropolitan areas in the United States to see how the drop in air pollution differed from neighborhood to neighborhood. The paper was published July 20 in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
We talked to the lead author on the study, Gaige Kerr, about how the COVID-19 pandemic led to better air quality – and how those improvements were unequal for people of different races, ethnicities and socioeconomic levels. Kerr is a research scientist at GW. The interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
Nitrogen dioxide, or NO2, is a trace gas in the atmosphere. It’s one of the six air pollutants regulated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under the Clean Air Act. Even though NO2 is only present in small amounts, it’s very harmful for human health and can trigger respiratory illnesses like asthma. NO2 also leads to the formation of ozone near Earth’s surface, another harmful air pollutant.
NO2 can come from natural things like lightning or microbes in the soil. But in cities, the majority of NO2 stems from human activity and fossil fuel combustion. Roughly 50% of the ambient NO2 comes from traffic emissions. The other large sources come from power plants, incinerators and factories.
During COVID, we had the opportunity to see how taking many cars off of the road and planes out of the skies affected air pollution in the real world in this unintended experiment. We know from past research that there are NO2 pollution disparities based on several factors – most notably race, ethnicity and income – and that communities of color and lower socioeconomic status face much higher concentrations of NO2. So, we wanted to understand how this unprecedented, extraordinary drop in human activity and emissions impacted NO2 disparities.
In cities, NO2 levels plummeted at first. That had a lot to do with the drop in traffic and travel, since vehicle traffic is the largest contributor to NO2 in cities. We saw widespread decreases in NO2 across urban areas in the United States during the pandemic, but the magnitude varied. NO2 levels dropped by about 10% to 35% on average, depending on the city. New York City and Los Angeles had very large drops, but NO2 disparities across different racial, ethnic and socioeconomic groups were very large in these cities.
We talked to the lead author on the study, Gaige Kerr, about how the COVID-19 pandemic led to better air quality – and how those improvements were unequal for people of different races, ethnicities and socioeconomic levels. Kerr is a research scientist at GW. The interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
What is nitrogen dioxide and how is it related to air quality?
Nitrogen dioxide, or NO2, is a trace gas in the atmosphere. It’s one of the six air pollutants regulated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under the Clean Air Act. Even though NO2 is only present in small amounts, it’s very harmful for human health and can trigger respiratory illnesses like asthma. NO2 also leads to the formation of ozone near Earth’s surface, another harmful air pollutant.
NO2 can come from natural things like lightning or microbes in the soil. But in cities, the majority of NO2 stems from human activity and fossil fuel combustion. Roughly 50% of the ambient NO2 comes from traffic emissions. The other large sources come from power plants, incinerators and factories.
What happened with NO2 levels when the COVID-19 pandemic triggered lockdowns in March 2020?
During COVID, we had the opportunity to see how taking many cars off of the road and planes out of the skies affected air pollution in the real world in this unintended experiment. We know from past research that there are NO2 pollution disparities based on several factors – most notably race, ethnicity and income – and that communities of color and lower socioeconomic status face much higher concentrations of NO2. So, we wanted to understand how this unprecedented, extraordinary drop in human activity and emissions impacted NO2 disparities.
In cities, NO2 levels plummeted at first. That had a lot to do with the drop in traffic and travel, since vehicle traffic is the largest contributor to NO2 in cities. We saw widespread decreases in NO2 across urban areas in the United States during the pandemic, but the magnitude varied. NO2 levels dropped by about 10% to 35% on average, depending on the city. New York City and Los Angeles had very large drops, but NO2 disparities across different racial, ethnic and socioeconomic groups were very large in these cities.
So your attitude is to wait until circumstances match up to your personal criteria before you’ll even pay attention. Got it.
1. Can’t control volcanoes. Can control human behavior and consumption. Slight difference in the two.
2. Red tides are supercharged by fertilizer runoff from agriculture. We’ll known and documented. You should do more research.
3 & 4. Things change and evolve. It is the natural order. People burned dung for heat at one point. Why would we not continue to progress? Why would we not look for sustainable solutions and alternatives to petroleum?
You a Saudi? You seem really into oil.
1. You should be far more concerned about the amount of greenhouse gases deposited in the atmosphere by volcanoes than by humans. Big difference in the threat posed by one versus another.
2. Coastal runoff may contribute some to the formation of red tides but, they are not exclusive to areas impacted by runoff. You should do more research.
3. Things always change and evolve. But, not at a breakneck speed with an entire industry being essentially created and subsidized by government. Additionally, the near total dependence on China for solar and wind power components is, I think you'll agree, problematic at best.
88% of the US electrical grid is powered by fossil fuels. You don't get away from those numbers by forcing a oppresive green policy on the population. You slowly transition over to renewables over time to minimize impact and cost while making maximum use of technological advancements along the way.
