Fox signing with an agent, entering draft

[ZaytovenCat]

^^^ doesn't understand how much sheer luck/chance goes into winning a title due to the enormous parity in college basketball coupled with a single elimination tournament.

The guy who just won his third title last night? After his second, he went seven seasons without even making it to a final four.

I know it takes some luck and breaks but we are past that. If you look at all of our losses in the tournament on their own then you could say "bad luck, cold shooting, bad refs and so on" but when you look at them as a whole then you start seeing an undeniable pattern.

What makes it worse IMO, is that it's not scattered all at different stages in the tournament. They're all in the elite 8 or later outside of 1 season.

 

[brianpoe]

Basically I meant that we should have won 2 titles so far in Cal's 8 seasons at bare minimum. Truthfully it should really be 3 but just 2 would be enough to overlook the other blown opportunities and be satisfied with what Cal has done so far.

Yep and the OAD had ZERO to do with not winning those titles.

2010 was terrible shooting ala 1984 with 72 seniors on that team and it is on Cal for not calling TO's and creating a better plan. He had Cousins nd PPat who cares about the packed in zone? You have John Wall, create dont settle.

The only reason we had that chance was the OADs

2011 was rebuilding year in which we made the FF. Again shooting was the issue. Those freshmen got us there.

2014 we had WCS out and Randle injured. Cal went zone way too late. No OAD issue with this team.

2015 terrible refs, poor execution down the stretch, Cal's stall ball and Cal again not calling a TO to fix the offensive issues.


The only reason we had these opportunities was because of OAD players not in spite of it.

 

[brianpoe]

I know it takes some luck and breaks but we are past that. If you look at all of our losses in the tournament on their own then you could say "bad luck, cold shooting, bad refs and so on" but when you look at them as a whole then you start seeing an undeniable pattern.

What makes it worse IMO, is that it's not scattered all at different stages in the tournament. They're all in the elite 8 or later outside of 1 season.

You do know the better teams usually are playing in the EE or FF?

Would you prefer to be Kansas and lose to mid majors the first weekend?

 

[GoCatsForever2k15]

I know it takes some luck and breaks but we are past that. If you look at all of our losses in the tournament on their own then you could say "bad luck, cold shooting, bad refs and so on" but when you look at them as a whole then you start seeing an undeniable pattern.

What makes it worse IMO, is that it's not scattered all at different stages in the tournament. They're all in the elite 8 or later outside of 1 season.

This is the kind of logic you get with some of our fans. It would actually be BETTER if Cal had lost earlier than he did a couple of years. Because, you know, reasons.

 

[ZaytovenCat]

Yep and the OAD had ZERO to do with not winning those titles.

2010 was terrible shooting ala 1984 with 72 seniors on that team and it is on Cal for not calling TO's and creating a better plan. He had Cousins nd PPat who cares about the packed in zone? You have John Wall, create dont settle.

The only reason we had that chance was the OADs

2011 was rebuilding year in which we made the FF. Again shooting was the issue. Those freshmen got us there.

2014 we had WCS out and Randle injured. Cal went zone way too late. No OAD issue with this team.

2015 terrible refs, poor execution down the stretch, Cal's stall ball and Cal again not calling a TO to fix the offensive issues.


The only reason we had these opportunities was because of OAD players not in spite of it.

I'm not 100% against OAD. But it needs tweaking. We absolutely have to have some of these guys return each year. The Randle team is the ONLY Cal team where freshmen basically was the sole reason for getting as far as they did.

2010 probably doesn't click like they did without Patterson. Not to mention the other one freshmen.
2011 Knight and Jones was our top 2 players but that team is 8-9 seed at best without Liggins, Miller and Jorts.
2012 top 2 draft picks were our freshmen but there's no title without TJ and Lamb coming back, not to mention Miller who provided key shooting and another versatile defender.
2013 blah
2014 the one year freshmen were basically the only reason for our run. But still we had a sophomore Poythress who was needed.
2015 the frosh were huge no doubt but what made that team historically good was all of the talent that returned. This is Cal's best recruiting class IMO.
2016 Murray was big but the team mostly leaned on non freshmen.
2017 the freshmen were our best players but again we aren't close to being the team we became without the seniors and Briscoe.

The formula to success is pretty simple. We have to have atleast 2-3 of the best freshmen in the country with another 1-3 good freshmen plus 3-5 skilled non freshmen who had real experience from the previous season(s).

Our problem is usually us not having enough skilled returnees. We HAVE TO HAVE balance. Unless we start getting some of our good freshmen to return for atleast their sophomore years then nothing is going to change here. We will be stuck on 8. We ABSOLUTELY have to start finding balance in our roster.

 

[ZaytovenCat]

This is the kind of logic you get with some of our fans. It would actually be BETTER if Cal had lost earlier than he did a couple of years. Because, you know, reasons.

Having all those seasons of being 1-2 wins from a title take their toll. It hurts much worse losing late in the tournament. If we lose early like last year we know "oh well that never had a shot anyway." But losing every year late in the tournament is just depressing as hell. It makes you sit and second guess everything and wonder what could have been done differently. You don't have that in the years like 2013 and 2016.

 

[brianpoe]

I'm not 100% against OAD. But it needs tweaking. We absolutely have to have some of these guys return each year. The Randle team is the ONLY Cal team where freshmen basically was the sole reason for getting as far as they did.

2010 probably doesn't click like they did without Patterson. Not to mention the other one freshmen.
2011 Knight and Jones was our top 2 players but that team is 8-9 seed at best without Liggins, Miller and Jorts.
2012 top 2 draft picks were our freshmen but there's no title without TJ and Lamb coming back, not to mention Miller who provided key shooting and another versatile defender.
2013 blah
2014 the one year freshmen were basically the only reason for our run. But still we had a sophomore Poythress who was needed.
2015 the frosh were huge no doubt but what made that team historically good was all of the talent that returned. This is Cal's best recruiting class IMO.
2016 Murray was big but the team mostly leaned on non freshmen.
2017 the freshmen were our best players but again we aren't close to being the team we became without the seniors and Briscoe.

The formula to success is pretty simple. We have to have atleast 2-3 of the best freshmen in the country with another 1-3 good freshmen plus 3-5 skilled non freshmen who had real experience from the previous season(s).

Our problem is usually us not having enough skilled returnees. We HAVE TO HAVE balance. Unless we start getting some of our good freshmen to return for atleast their sophomore years then nothing is going to change here. We will be stuck on 8. We ABSOLUTELY have to start finding balance in our roster.

You are just proving my point.

2010 PPat - was a great player who stayed. (couldnt make shots 1 game)
2011 Miller, Liggins, and Jorts did not go pro early. (couldnt make shots 1 game)
2012 Jones and Lamb return - Lamb had to, Jones was leery of the strike but they were NOT certain, thus they stayed. (TITLE)
2013 Lamb and Teague leave - UNEXPECTED and of course Noel out
2014 Loaded class that went to the FF and lost with WCS out and Randle injured and didnt go zone early enough.
2015 Players did return again and we were great except for the last 4 minutes of the last game - with a couple terrible calls, poor execution by SOPHOMORES, Cals' stall ball and not calling TO
2016 Booker and Dakari left UNEXPECTED


So in 2010 and 11 the OAD freshmen were the best players that took us very far. Them leaving after the season had nothing to do with either loss.

2012 OADs are main factors in winning title.

2013 looks a lot better with Teague, Lamb, Archie, Alex, Noel, Wiltjer, WCS

2014 WCS returns and a bunch of OADS get us to FF

2015 no one left that shouldnt have in 2014, we still blow it.

2016 with Dakari is better. Missed on many recruits (Platoon issue)


So the issue really isnt the OAD, the issue is that some kids leave too early - they were not pushed out, they just left.

You can say we need more shooters instead of all athletes but the recruiting strategy has been remarkably great regarding OAD.

The kids that left that should have isn't an issue its the ones who should have stayed but didnt.