Finally watched last 12 mins of Wisc game last night
- Thread starter ulismyman
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It won't be this thread, or the next one, or the one after, but eventually you guys are going to solve this and finally be able to decide the important issue of who was at fault for losing a game so that we can go back and have a rematch.
I will always remember John Thompson crowing about their amazing defense. That was sickening. I think somebody welded plate steel over the rim. That's the only thing that would have stopped both Bowie and Turpin.
Justice was Rollie Massimino mashing their nose in it the next year. Wasn't that in Rupp? Karma.
Bottom line is one game with those kind of emotions and such high stakes, anything can and does happen. As fans of the greatest program in history, we should have the grace and maturity to realize that. We've been there before.
Well, I'll agree with one thing. It will take a LOT of luck for Cal to win another title.
We did get a banner. Ever heard of a Final-4 banner? If not winning the title is such a failure to you, I'm assuming you've only counted 8 seasons in UK's entire existence as acceptable.
We don't need more wins? I'm assuming you thought the 13-14 team was more successful than last year's team too then, right? You know, because they made it 1 game further in the NCAA tournament. Great logic.
You hung on Tubby's nutsack and bashed posters who were critical of Tubby's game plans. Now you are doing the same thing with Cal. It is fine to support your team, but some people might see some room for improvement from our coach and want to debate it. What we don't need is some blind fool sitting behind a computer telling us how we should feel about our team and our coach. You support in your way and we sill support in our way. I was around when we lost to Georgetown. I am not some teenager. Most likely been following the Cats before you,so take your self righteous attitude and shove it.
Please don't stoop to UNC standards and start bragging about a FF banner. They count Helms titles, maybe you should start counting them too, if a damn banner is all you want.
Actually you're saying you would take the NCAA Runner-up banner over the Final-4 banner. The other 34 games are meaningless. 29-11 > 38-1
What wasn't talked about was the fact that in the first half Georgetown struggled making shots on that end, and then the second half we could not get a shot to fall. I always suspected something was wrong with that goal.
Please explain how a Final-4 banner has any relation to a Helms banner and get back with me. And since when was a Final-4 banner minced meat?
Our recent string of Final-4 success has done something to some of your brains. Some would have killed to make 1 Final-4 in the Tubby Smith era save his first year.
If we're on here bitching about only making final-4s every year, I think that speaks for itself. I want to win it all every year just like the next guy, but good grief. Some of you won't make it once the next coach is hired, so go ahead and buy a plot.
Depends on what you consider success to be. To me the regular season is all about getting ready for and being successful in tournament play because that is the point of the season and therefore the point of the game. I will take a 29-11 team's RU banner over a 38-1 SEC & FF trophy, yes. Not criticizing one over the other, just saying one made more progress towards the ultimate goal than the other did and that is reflected in the rafters.
One of those two teams will be remembered by the national media and one won't. Different ways to look at it. I can't look at both seasons and say the 29-11 team had a better year because they didn't. They did however win 1 more game in the tournament.
2015: Who cares if we just get to the Final Four? Kentucky is about titles, man.
2025: We haven't made a Final Four since Cal left. I just want to be in the conversation like we used to be.
I think you have to define greatest success by what builds the legacy of the program. Nothing tops the NCAA championship. However, total program wins does advance that legacy. Also, in a single elimination tournament, there is no second place. There is only a winner. Going out in 5th round is little different that going out in the 6th. You are still out.
Take the wins.
RE: JUSTICE DONE--- Rollie beats the Hoyas the next year.
That game, all by itself, proved the Anything-Can-Happen theory. Come to think of it, the early 80's were ate up with that kind of stuff!
Look at the fluke finish of 1982. The crazy finish of 1983. We saw what can happen in 1984's FF, where we couldn't make a shot the 2nd half. Then, in 1985, 'Nova basically didn't miss a shot in the 2nd half to take the NC.
That game, all by itself, proved the Anything-Can-Happen theory. Come to think of it, the early 80's were ate up with that kind of stuff!
Look at the fluke finish of 1982. The crazy finish of 1983. We saw what can happen in 1984's FF, where we couldn't make a shot the 2nd half. Then, in 1985, 'Nova basically didn't miss a shot in the 2nd half to take the NC.
Once Cal leaves...people will go back to saying Final Fours matter. Cal is a victim of his own success. It is going to be funny to see how certain posters on here who bash Cal so much respond to the post-Cal era.
I still remember what it was like going 13 years without a Final 4. I also remember jumping up and down like a little girl when Brandon Knight took us to the Final 4 in 2011.
Cal has put Kentucky back in the center of college basketball. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Cal has put Kentucky back in the center of college basketball. Enjoy it while it lasts.
A lot of our fans put the UK coach at the same level as the Pope, infallible. Their decisions can not be questioned nor discussed. There is divine inspiration and guidance in each and every one, please doubters, observe and remain silent.
And some of us expect the team to have 20/20 vision. If only they had watched that last 12 minutes before the game started right? Then there's the doubters that think they should be able to trash the program without rebuttal. Doubters >> Pope, right? I mean.
If you had REALLY wanted to see trashing in action, let us lose that game without the Harrison's in the thick of it, playing a kid that was getting posted and other that was struggling on defense while playing zone and getting the ball jacked while trying to force it in the middle. The crying and whining would be on a scale not seen since Pitino let Grant Hill throw a bullet to "The Stomper".
I know it makes you feel good to run down the program. You feel bad cause the team got beat and you need relief. I get that, not everyone has the grace to lose well. Four months just isn't enough time to recover from that kind of trauma. Just beat up on those 20 year old millionaires till you recover. When you come out of your funk, you'll realize the driving force behind the loss on that day was Wisconsin. Wisdom is not born in a lazy boy watching re-runs.
KBF, If you are going to reply to me, reply to my words not ones you try to stick in my mouth.
What is the bball forum for but to have discussion, I have not beaten up on those 20 yrs old. I have only expressed an opinion that the coach did not coach a perfect game and that he is not infallible and above criticism. I would bet a dollar to a donut that this game has went through Cal's mind hundreds of times and he has found things he wishes he had done differently.
It is also my opinion that although reaching FF's and such are great, if we could have done better there is no reason to shy away from discussing it. With some teams reaching the FF is a fine accomplishment, with others it is not.
Please refrain from the two bit analysis, you don't know me.
I don't know a single person who thinks that Cal or any other coach is perfect.
I also don't know of any program that doesn't consider reaching the Final Four "a fine accomplishment."
A Final Four is the universally recognized signifier of a very successful year, and UK is no different in that regard. Same for Duke, Carolina and Kansas. Doesn't mean you can't have a disappointing ending to a season - this certainly was that - but no one can casually dismiss a FF appearance. Personally, I've always thought that playing in the regional finals met the threshold of "a good year", you can't really complain about the season if you're in the elite 8 playing for a trip to the final four. There may be disagreement on that - but there can be no reasonable disagreement about reaching the final four itself. That's a good year, by definition......
I just don't see that at all. Sure, nobody likes to lose and there is plenty of venting and MM quarterbacking when our season ends but Cal is absolutely loved by UK fans. The only real negativity I see are the threads hollering about people being negative. Very minor and would quickly pass if it wasn't for the 20 threads complaining about people complaining.
Cal probably wishes Chalmers had been fouled before he could take that 3-pointer in 2008.
Pitino probably wishes he would've put a man on Hill when he was throwing it to CL in 1992.
Bill Buckner probably wishes he'd had a bigger glove in 1986.
Pete Carroll probably wishes he'd called a run play at the end of the last Super Bowl.
It's Sports.
Normally, there are some pretty good teams in the Final Four. Sometimes, there are great teams in the Final Four. No matter what, 3 of them will watch somebody else climbing the ladder at the end.
Pitino probably wishes he would've put a man on Hill when he was throwing it to CL in 1992.
Bill Buckner probably wishes he'd had a bigger glove in 1986.
Pete Carroll probably wishes he'd called a run play at the end of the last Super Bowl.
It's Sports.
Normally, there are some pretty good teams in the Final Four. Sometimes, there are great teams in the Final Four. No matter what, 3 of them will watch somebody else climbing the ladder at the end.
Well then, by the heavens man, we should discuss the thing then, right? This goes for everyone who is critical of Cal's coaching in that game or anyone who has dismissed the criticism as nonsense.
I have seen all-encompassing criticism in this thread spewed without substance. In fact, and perhaps I've simply missed it, I cannot recall anyone in this thread offering substantive critique of Cal's coaching in the Wisconsin game. There has been no game breakdown, no minute-to-minute analysis, no actual objectivity; just vague references that have slowly become nothing more than mythology (like the idea that Cal didn't call a timeout in crunch time when in actuality, he did - two times, in fact, plus a TV timeout).
So yes, we should discuss the thing, but if we do, all of us should use actual events from the game, not revisionist history or mythological analysis based on memories whose actualities haven't been analyzed since the emotional construct that came with the April 4th loss and subsequently has remained cemented in place without scrutiny.
Again, I challenge anyone who has made mention of this game with any sort of fervor - for or against Cal's coaching - to actually re-watch the game. If any of us haven't watched the game since April 4th with an attempt at objectivity, I deny such a person's credibility in this discussion as it should be rendered hollow.
IMO reading this forum there are a number of members that will jump all over anyone who questions decisions Cal has made, it certainly leaves one with the impression that Cal is considered "infallible". As a matter of fact you can go back to Bill Clyde and Tubby and it was the same thing. Billy messed in his nest so it is OK to criticize him now, Tubby still has his staunch defenders, that is why I compared the UK coach to the Pope.
The FF is not a great accomplishment for a team that was in a national discussion for going 40-0. It is for a team like the Brandon Knight team that struggled all season and it is a huge disappointment when a team that features Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe and Patterson doesn't.
Like I said, you can trash the team and coach if it makes you feel better. Like you said, its the Internet, and what you post is subject to rebuttal, no matter how much you think you are the pope. You like to whine about the coach? Fine. You don't like it when you get called on it. Tough.
I thought you rested your case. Putting words in my mouth and trying to analyze me, same old, same old. What a waste of oxygen you are.
I did, till somebody tried to tell me to shut up. So I'll just let you prove my point even more. As far as a waste of oxygen, well, that comment has about the same credibility as your coach trashing.
Just admit it. You are upset about the loss. Bashing the team makes you feel better. You don't want to be challenged.
As far as putting words in your mouth? Naw, I'd never presume to do that. Interpreting what you post? Of course, that's the risk you take by posting nonsense on a public forum.
Well, we'll just have to disagree about that. A "title or bust" mentality just doesn't work, IMO, in this sport, given the unpredictable nature of the NCAAT. If you're a 1 seed and lose to a 9? Yeah, that's game for ridicule. A 1 losing to a 1 in the final four, that's a disappointment, and nothing more.
I guess I'd have to go back and read the thread and look for it, but I don't think anyone is saying Cal is "infallible". To me, any complaints about this past season just validates what the critics of BBN say, that we're crazy and have absolutely zero perspective. Complaining about coming up short, after a 38-1 season, is in the general ballpark of commenting on the mole on the supermodel's elbow. Eye-rolling.
All that is just MO, of course - and, on the other hand, I recognize this is a message board, dedicated to UK basketball, and so conversation about UK basketball is sort of expected......
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This is a very good post. You are absolutely correct. Nobody is saying anybody is perfect. Cal has never and will never coach a perfect game. That said, he didn't make any major mistakes in the Wisconsin game. There was no gross incompetence or favoritism towards certain players or whatever the favorite anti-Cal conspiracy is in the latest thread.
Every team has a range of performance that they are capable of producing. We didn't play our A game the entire game. Wisconsin did. We got beat by a good team. End of story. Not quite the perfect end to a nearly perfect season. By any sane and reasonable measure, a season that the team and staff should be extremely proud of in spite of any disgruntled fans.
I do have one bone to pick, given our reigning champions. The 15 over 2, now THAT'S a game for ridicule. Even better that it involves the team I like to ridicule the most.
I hate to admit it, but I've watched parts of that game up to four times, trying to understand why folks did what they did. I really think I understand most of it. Absent hindsight, I really agree with the great majority of decisions that were made. The ball just didn't bounce our way and some whistles blew the other direction . . .
I'm still a little mystified as to why the twins sat on the ball on a few possessions when we were up 4. Last time I watched it, I came to the conclusion that they were victims of their own experience and success. We'd performed wonderfully through the season in the last 4 - 5 minutes. Aaron had proven himself to be a clutch shooter. I think it really came down to, "We're up 4. Let's get some time off this clock and we'll kick their arse at the end, again.".
As I thought about it, heck, I was agreeing with them. I thought Wisconsin was dead meat when they went down 4. In hindsight? Well, all the times I watched it over, it was already over.
No surprise a post about that game gets a lot of responses. I watched it live. I may never watch a replay. My .02 worth, I thought at the end Cal and the Cat's played more not to lose than to win. All year long we saw him in post-game, etc. interviews emphasizing how he was telling the player's to be aggressive. Then in the end of that game he and they weren't. Those shot clock violations will live in infamy in UK lore.
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