Fair and objective player comps and why the media is horrifically wrong on this UK team.

[ukfan1622]

I probably wouldn't agree that much with the player comparisons but I completely agree that this UK team will be quite good. I just like how the pieces fit together...

 

[yes_takeaside]

We are a group of grown men with multi yrs of college experience.
We have size, we have makers, we have lockdown defenders and we have depth.
We have a new coach who is going to allow his players to shoot 40 threes a game and will play man/zone/press and actually run an offense too.

Whats not to like?
This is a minimum FF team.
Minimum.

Did not notice the poster until i finished this post and then had to look .. got a chuckle at that point

 

[JonathanW]

Bama has a proven coach and system there, probably higher end talent with 2 guys who could be AA ‘s. Solid recruiting class and transfers who need to prove themselves but he’s done well in that regard. His transfers last year led them to a final four.

Oats is only slightly more proven at Alabama than Pope is.
Yes he went to the F4 last year, with a 12 loss team. It's not like Pope has not coached before (like the UNC and Duke new coaches just 3 years ago), or like Pope hasn't coached a P5 school (he was in the B12 for one year, and had his team ranked for much of the year). And he clearly has more talent than he had last year.

And after Sears, who is the other potential AA candidate at Alabama? Nelson LOL. Nelson got hot for a couple of NCAA-T games, but otherwise was pretty average all year. I would put Carr up against him! I think Williams and Omoruyi is a pretty good & even matchup too. I do like Stephenson for them though (a lot).
Sears is the classic over-achiever. Him vs the defensive-minded Butler would be a good matchup, but you have to give the advantage to Sears.
But I'll take Oweh and Robinson over Wrightsell & Youngblood, and it might not even be close.
Mallette and Stephenson off the bench will be good for them, but we have more players that will be good off the bench (3-5).

Are we better (on paper) than Bama? IDK, probably not. But I think it's reasonably close. And if they are projected top 5 team, there's no reason we shouldn't be projected top 10 or at least top 15-20 team.

 

[zoid1]

Bama is a top 5 team in every ranking I've seen this year. Sears is a SEC and national POY contender by everyone. Oats is one of the hottest coaches in the nation right now. They had a some really good xfers and recruiting class coming in.

Saying all that I still think UK is as good as Bama on paper. I think Butler can hold Sears from going off. That's Butler's special is playing great defense on the other team's best guard. Oweh/Youngblood is even. Robinson is better than Wrightsell. Nelson/Carr is about even. Omoruyi is a little better not much then Williams.

The bench they have a little more post depth and we have more guard depth.

 

[Fox2monk]

Oats is only slightly more proven at Alabama than Pope is.
Yes he went to the F4 last year, with a 12 loss team. It's not like Pope has not coached before (like the UNC and Duke new coaches just 3 years ago), or like Pope hasn't coached a P5 school (he was in the B12 for one year, and had his team ranked for much of the year). And he clearly has more talent than he had last year.

And after Sears, who is the other potential AA candidate at Alabama? Nelson LOL. Nelson got hot for a couple of NCAA-T games, but otherwise was pretty average all year. I would put Carr up against him! I think Williams and Omoruyi is a pretty good & even matchup too. I do like Stephenson for them though (a lot).
Sears is the classic over-achiever. Him vs the defensive-minded Butler would be a good matchup, but you have to give the advantage to Sears.
But I'll take Oweh and Robinson over Wrightsell & Youngblood, and it might not even be close.
Mallette and Stephenson off the bench will be good for them, but we have more players that will be good off the bench (3-5).

Are we better (on paper) than Bama? IDK, probably not. But I think it's reasonably close. And if they are projected top 5 team, there's no reason we shouldn't be projected top 10 or at least top 15-20 team.

Oats has a system and don’t forget about his success before Bama as well. I think Pope will do fine, just that I’d have to put Bama in a different class than us until we are proven. The other potential AA to me is is Cliff Omoruyi. He has gotten better each year and will play on a top ranked team where he will get the spotlight now. I think he will be one of the best big men in college this year. Nelson probably makes a 2nd or 3rd All SEC team if he continues his tournament play.

 

[JonathanW]

Oats has a system and don’t forget about his success before Bama as well. I think Pope will do fine, just that I’d have to put Bama in a different class than us until we are proven. The other potential AA to me is is Cliff Omoruyi. He has gotten better each year and will play on a top ranked team where he will get the spotlight now. I think he will be one of the best big men in college this year. Nelson probably makes a 2nd or 3rd All SEC team if he continues his tournament play.

You don't think Pope has a system, that nearly every coach has a system. Yes, Oats may be different than most. The same might be said about Pope's. It's not like Oats has crushed it at Bama. Yes, he's done well, but not crushed it. In 2019 he took a decent team and repeated the prior mediocre season (which got Avery Johnson fired) at 8-10 in SEC. He did then "crush it" in 20-21 only to then lose early in the S16. In 21-22 he fell back to mediocre at 9-9 in SEC. He "crushed it" again in 22-23, once again though losing early in the S16 despite having possibly the best player in the tournament. Then 23-24 was good, despite 12 losses, going 13-5 in SEC and getting hot at the right time and making the F4.

I like Omoruyi. I wanted him, but think Williams is very close to him. On a 1-10 scale, I give Omoruyi a 7.8 and Williams a 7.4. I think Aidou is also right there with both of them (maybe 7.6).

 

[catsfanbgky]

I think I will wait until we sign the try out winner for the 13th and final roster spot before I give my overall talent comparison, prediction.

The one poster who stated "we have a lot of ELITE college talent, just not elite NBA talent"????? We have ZERO players considered "ELITE" in college basketball. Robinson is / will be our best player, did he make any of the post season All conference or NCAA teams ? We have a bunch of solid rotational guys. NOT ONE of them (except Robinson), was considered the BEST player on their team.

 

[JonathanW]

I think I will wait until we sign the try out winner for the 13th and final roster spot before I give my overall talent comparison, prediction.

The one poster who stated "we have a lot of ELITE college talent, just not elite NBA talent"????? We have ZERO players considered "ELITE" in college basketball. Robinson is / will be our best player, did he make any of the post season All conference or NCAA teams ? We have a bunch of solid rotational guys. NOT ONE of them (except Robinson), was considered the BEST player on their team.

True, we have 0 "elite" players. But we have lots of "good" players.
Just comparing to the past couple of seasons, we have no one as good as the 3 R's or Oscar. But we have several guys (5-6-7) who may be better than anyone else on those 2 teams except maybe Wallace.

 

[docholiday51]

I think Carr will be better than Soph Padgett

 

[TucsonCat]

I have noticed a lot of you are overating our new players.

Of those 10 role players, only 3 played on teams that were in the NCAA tournament last year.

Productions don't line up between great teams and that level. Somebody has to score on those teams, and they rarely meet production levels on better teams.

For example. Oweh was second leading scorer on an Oklahoma team that didn't make the tournament and finished 9th in the Big 12. Azabuike was third leading scorer on Number 1 seed, and yet both averaged 11 points a game. So if that KAZ was at Oklahoma, hes the star of the team and steals Owehs girlfriend.

Same with Doron Lamb, Final Four 3rd leading scorer and Koby Brea, 6th man on 1 and done Dayton team.

WAKE FORREST didn't make the tournament. So the 4th leading scorer from them doesn't compare to the 3rd leading one, Scott Padgett, who got 17 points in the 1997 NCAA title game.

We're making a fantasy team, have the 6th pick in the draft, and can only choose from 3 good and 7 mediocre teams.

 

[gharding07]

This team is very hard to gauge. You can easily argue either way quite easily. I think on paper it's a good team but not a great team. We will be a fringe top 25 team all season and probably get a 6 or 7 seed. If we somehow beat Duke then that will get a lot of national media attention and rightfully so.

 

[megablue]

EVERYTHING is new. Throw in NIL and new rules and the whole game is changed. It’s fun to play guessing games but Pope has yet to coach / win a game here and throw in a totally revamped roster and style of play and you have one huge question mark. I’m glad we stand where we stand all the way around (especially Triple C gone forever) but this is a total crap shoot at this point and nobody can do anything but guess. I just hope this is the start of a spectacular new era. BBN deserves something good to happen.

You are correct about everything being new, including Pope now coaching as the hunted, versus always being the hunter.
He will definitely have a learning curve in this regard, especially on the road, for sure.

 

[Fox2monk]

You don't think Pope has a system, that nearly every coach has a system. Yes, Oats may be different than most. The same might be said about Pope's. It's not like Oats has crushed it at Bama. Yes, he's done well, but not crushed it. In 2019 he took a decent team and repeated the prior mediocre season (which got Avery Johnson fired) at 8-10 in SEC. He did then "crush it" in 20-21 only to then lose early in the S16. In 21-22 he fell back to mediocre at 9-9 in SEC. He "crushed it" again in 22-23, once again though losing early in the S16 despite having possibly the best player in the tournament. Then 23-24 was good, despite 12 losses, going 13-5 in SEC and getting hot at the right time and making the F4.

I like Omoruyi. I wanted him, but think Williams is very close to him. On a 1-10 scale, I give Omoruyi a 7.8 and Williams a 7.4. I think Aidou is also right there with both of them (maybe 7.6).

Of course, what I’m saying is he has guys that have played in his system before. We only have one.

 

[RunninRichie]

I disagree. This is the 7th best team in the SEC on paper. When the season starts? Anything is possible. I'm also not going to compare unknown freshmen. And some mid-major transfers to guys who won titles at UK.


Pope did the best he could this year. As far as roster construction went. Having a full season under his belt at UK. Will help him establish name recognition with recruits. We gotta make the tourney this year to spark it (the Pope era) off. Can't come out flat and lose 13 games. That could be a tailspin for this program.

 

[JonathanW]

I have noticed a lot of you are overating our new players.

Of those 10 role players, only 3 played on teams that were in the NCAA tournament last year.

Productions don't line up between great teams and that level. Somebody has to score on those teams, and they rarely meet production levels on better teams.

For example. Oweh was second leading scorer on an Oklahoma team that didn't make the tournament and finished 9th in the Big 12. Azabuike was third leading scorer on Number 1 seed, and yet both averaged 11 points a game. So if that KAZ was at Oklahoma, hes the star of the team and steals Owehs girlfriend.

Same with Doron Lamb, Final Four 3rd leading scorer and Koby Brea, 6th man on 1 and done Dayton team.

WAKE FORREST didn't make the tournament. So the 4th leading scorer from them doesn't compare to the 3rd leading one, Scott Padgett, who got 17 points in the 1997 NCAA title game.

We're making a fantasy team, have the 6th pick in the draft, and can only choose from 3 good and 7 mediocre teams.

You are making a mistake, comparing what those Wildcats did in that season he is comparing them to, vs these Wildcats in the season prior. A more fair comparison would be how did those Wildcats do the year before to how these Cats did the year before.

 

[JonathanW]

I disagree. This is the 7th best team in the SEC on paper. When the season starts? Anything is possible. I'm also not going to compare unknown freshmen. And some mid-major transfers to guys who won titles at UK.


Pope did the best he could this year. As far as roster construction went. Having a full season under his belt at UK. Will help him establish name recognition with recruits. We gotta make the tourney this year to spark it (the Pope era) off. Can't come out flat and lose 13 games. That could be a tailspin for this program.

While true, anything can happen once the games start. I just can’t see “7th on paper in SEC”. I would say no worse than 4th. If you rank our players from best to worst, vs other top teams best to worst, in most cases they will be better than us at #1 and probably #2, but after that from 3 to 5 we are as good as any top team, and 6-9 we are better than most top teams.