Doug Gottlieb talks Mark Pope

[xtra12]

Not a huge fan of Gottlieb, but I've been listening to mainly KY pundits talk about it. I wanted to step out and listen to someone else.

He brought up some good points, like the fact that Duke and North Carolina both have coaches that are head coaching for their first time.

Now even he admits that this is a bit different as they were a successor and they have a past head coach in the wing. However, I think Pitino is going to be more involved than we think, which I welcome.

Recruiting is, of course, a consideration, but he has the KY brand behind him and I think Pitino is going to be a great advisor for him.

I'm honestly getting excited. Worried and ticked the first night, but now we have a Kentucky boy that knows and loves this school, and possibly a hall of fame head coach giving advice that loves this school.

Thoughts on his comments?

 

[UK90]

However, I think Pitino is going to be more involved than we think, which I welcome

Pitino seems absolutely giddy over this. As do his former players that I’ve seen comment on it.

I think he’s long wanted back in the BBN family, but that wasn’t gonna happen as long as Calipari ran the show. For Cal to not only leave, but be replaced by one of Pitino’s favorite former players? That’s like his dream scenario come true.

 

[Aike]

Link wouldn’t open for me.

 

[A.Oney]

Pitino seems absolutely giddy over this. As do his former players that I’ve seen comment on it.

I think he’s long wanted back in the BBN family, but that wasn’t gonna happen as long as Calipari ran the show. For Cal to not only leave, but be replaced by one of Pitino’s favorite former players? That’s like his dream scenario come true.

I was setting in an Applebees in Florence when UK beat U Mass in the NCAA in 96, I think that was always in the Cals head .

 

[PsychOfMSE]

Here's the link for those who can't get the one in the OP to open.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I keep seeing his x and o coaching over and over. Ok great but that's only part of the job. And apparently it only applies to offense.

Also I don't want to hear about Hubert and scheyer. But for a miracle run Hubert is a disaster. He'll prove that out in the next few years. Scheyer massively underperformed given the talent. So they are far from the shining examples. Even despite having Jordan and Nike in their respective corners.

Furthermore for the few times this type of hiring actually works, there are 10 examples of how it didn't.

He might do well but there are way too many questions to warrant him being that high on the list. And he damn sure shouldn't be getting paid what we're paying.

 

[UK-chulo]

Pitino seems absolutely giddy over this. As do his former players that I’ve seen comment on it.

I think he’s long wanted back in the BBN family, but that wasn’t gonna happen as long as Calipari ran the show. For Cal to not only leave, but be replaced by one of Pitino’s favorite former players? That’s like his dream scenario come true.

And the circumstances Cal left under. He didn’t ride off into the sunset with the adoration of the fanbase. He was spiraling and got out ahead of the posse. This next year was going to be insane if Cal stayed. Lexington’s billboards would have been a war zone.

 

[xtra12]

Pitino seems absolutely giddy over this. As do his former players that I’ve seen comment on it.

I think he’s long wanted back in the BBN family, but that wasn’t gonna happen as long as Calipari ran the show. For Cal to not only leave, but be replaced by one of Pitino’s favorite former players? That’s like his dream scenario come true.

I agree with this. Pitino, love him or hate him, he has said some glowing things about his time at Kentucky recently.

Oh that being sad, I don't think it was realistic to bring him back, although some fans would be totally okay with it. That being said, this works out great for him. I think Kentucky as a state would embrace him if he comes back as an ambassador. That and it would really piss off Cal.

 

[blackcat714]

Pitino needs to be the Y when ark. comes to town

 

[cardkilla]

It's gonna all come down to recruiting. Seems to be the X factor because we just don't know. If he can recruit the talent, it appears from everything I see that he is a great Xs and Os coach, can innovate on offense and will be able to handle the pressure at UK because he lived it as a player.

I'm rooting for him more than maybe I would another new coach just because he deserves it, UK fans deserve it, and man what a story it would be.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I keep seeing his x and o coaching over and over. Ok great but that's only part of the job. And apparently it only applies to offense.

Also I don't want to hear about Hubert and scheyer. But for a miracle run Hubert is a disaster. He'll prove that out in the next few years. Scheyer massively underperformed given the talent. So they are far from the shining examples. Even despite having Jordan and Nike in their respective corners.

Furthermore for the few times this type of hiring actually works, there are 10 examples of how it didn't.

He might do well but there are way too many questions to warrant him being that high on the list. And he damn sure shouldn't be getting paid what we're paying.

His pay is fine. Pay at the highest level of an organization is a combination of organization revenue, difficulty of the job and overall responsibility. At UK, those are all high numbers, hence his pay scale.

Once I learned just how hamstrung he was at BYU I was convinced his performance there was amazingly good. It seems most basketball people think very highly of Marks abilities.

 

[Ron Mehico]

If nothing else it might be nice to have a coach who the refs and everyone in the media doesnt hate 😂

 

[meteordealer]

It's gonna all come down to recruiting. Seems to be the X factor because we just don't know. If he can recruit the talent, it appears from everything I see that he is a great Xs and Os coach, can innovate on offense and will be able to handle the pressure at UK because he lived it as a player.

I'm rooting for him more than maybe I would another new coach just because he deserves it, UK fans deserve it, and man what a story it would be.

A lot of recruiting comes down to likeability. Everyone who has met Pope, or played for Pope, would run through a wall if the guy asked them to. That combined with the huge influx of NIL money, and i'm not worried about recruiting.

Plus, after a few years of killing it at UK, the guy will be a household name with recruits.

 

[Kantucke]

The Mark Pope Duke/Carolina comparisons, are not even close to being the same. For starters, Pope has to totally rebuild from the ground up.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

His pay is fine. Pay at the highest level of an organization is a combination of organization revenue, difficulty of the job and overall responsibility. At UK, those are all high numbers, hence his pay scale.

Once I learned just how hamstrung he was at BYU I was convinced his performance there was amazingly good. It seems most basketball people think very highly of Marks abilities.

Nonsense. You pay someone what it takes and nothing more. He's overpaid by double. Pope would've accepted for at least half this money. Maybe less. Only Mitch would pay double for a stretch hire.

Also it isn't exactly a secret done boosters are not pleased. The school only pays 400k of that contract and the rest is a combination of donations and marketing deals. At least some of these fund sources are not happy about Mitch going rogue and spending this much on a reach.

 

[502 Wildcat]

The Mark Pope Duke/Carolina comparisons, are not even close to being the same. For starters, Pope has to totally rebuild from the ground up.

Yea it’s not exactly the same, but somewhat similar.

Pope has a season in the P5 under his belt (and a successful one at that) prior to taking over (and 9 years as a head coach in totality), but was not the immediate replacement to his mentor.

Scheyer and Davis had zero coaching experience prior, but were groomed and handpicked to transition by legends they directly worked for.

You are correct about the rebuild. But with the portal, I’m not sure this is a major deal.

All in all, it’s not all that different.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Yea it’s not exactly the same, but somewhat similar.

Pope has a season in the P5 under his belt (and a successful one at that) prior to taking over (and 9 years as a head coach in totality), but was not the immediate replacement to his mentor.

Scheyer and Davis had zero coaching experience prior, but were groomed and handpicked to transition by legends they directly worked for.

You are correct about the rebuild. But with the portal, I’m not sure this is a major deal.

All in all, it’s not all that different.

Not even close. Hubert is backed by mj and scheyer by Nike.

Cmon now

And they aren't even successful given the talent. So if that's the best comparison, it isn't encouraging.

 

[NociHTTP]

I was setting in an Applebees in Florence when UK beat U Mass in the NCAA in 96, I think that was always in the Cals head .

For a long time I've felt that Calipari wasn't really a big fan of UK, just a big fan of what he could get out of it here. I think he's always resented UK beating his UMass team. The way he talked to the reporter asking him questions while he was walking his dog, bothers me.

 

[TNCatfanforever]

Pitino seems absolutely giddy over this. As do his former players that I’ve seen comment on it.

I think he’s long wanted back in the BBN family, but that wasn’t gonna happen as long as Calipari ran the show. For Cal to not only leave, but be replaced by one of Pitino’s favorite former players? That’s like his dream scenario come true.

He may be willing to come back as an assistant.

 

[JonathanW]

I keep seeing his x and o coaching over and over. Ok great but that's only part of the job. And apparently it only applies to offense.

Also I don't want to hear about Hubert and scheyer. But for a miracle run Hubert is a disaster. He'll prove that out in the next few years. Scheyer massively underperformed given the talent. So they are far from the shining examples. Even despite having Jordan and Nike in their respective corners.

Furthermore for the few times this type of hiring actually works, there are 10 examples of how it didn't.

He might do well but there are way too many questions to warrant him being that high on the list. And he damn sure shouldn't be getting paid what we're paying.

Difference here is this is not a beginner coach. He has had success, about as much as is possible at a place like Utah Valley, and about as much as is possible at BYU, which could be the most difficult school anywhere to recruit to (unless you are going after a Mormon). He goes into the B12, finished tied with Self/KU, won AT KU, beat Baylor, beat Iowa St.
This isn’t hiring Kenny Payne who’se never been the head man, this isn’t even hiring a guy who hasn’t had success yet.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Nonsense. You pay someone what it takes and nothing more. He's overpaid by double. Pope would've accepted for at least half this money. Maybe less. Only Mitch would pay double for a stretch hire.

Also it isn't exactly a secret done boosters are not pleased. The school only pays 400k of that contract and the rest is a combination of donations and marketing deals. At least some of these fund sources are not happy about Mitch going rogue and spending this much on a reach.

Totally disagree.

 

[meteordealer]

Difference here is this is not a beginner coach. He has had success, about as much as is possible at a place like Utah Valley, and about as much as is possible at BYU, which could be the most difficult school anywhere to recruit to (unless you are going after a Mormon). He goes into the B12, finished tied with Self/KU, won AT KU, beat Baylor, beat Iowa St.
This isn’t hiring Kenny Payne who’se never been the head man, this isn’t even hiring a guy who hasn’t had success yet.

Hurley would be the better comparison.

 

[meteordealer]

Not even close. Hubert is backed by mj and scheyer by Nike.

Cmon now

And they aren't even successful given the talent. So if that's the best comparison, it isn't encouraging.

Pope is backed by Pitino and the Craft family.

 

[cardkilla]

Difference here is this is not a beginner coach. He has had success, about as much as is possible at a place like Utah Valley, and about as much as is possible at BYU, which could be the most difficult school anywhere to recruit to (unless you are going after a Mormon). He goes into the B12, finished tied with Self/KU, won AT KU, beat Baylor, beat Iowa St.

This right here is why I've come around to being really happy with what we could have gotten. BYU super limited in recruiting, going to Big 12 from mid major status and he is not only competitive but beats some of the best teams/coaches in the conference. That's a huge bullish indicator to me. If this was a stock you buy now before it takes off.

 

[FrankUnderwoodX]

I keep seeing his x and o coaching over and over. Ok great but that's only part of the job. And apparently it only applies to offense.

Also I don't want to hear about Hubert and scheyer. But for a miracle run Hubert is a disaster. He'll prove that out in the next few years. Scheyer massively underperformed given the talent. So they are far from the shining examples. Even despite having Jordan and Nike in their respective corners.

Furthermore for the few times this type of hiring actually works, there are 10 examples of how it didn't.

He might do well but there are way too many questions to warrant him being that high on the list. And he damn sure shouldn't be getting paid what we're paying.

So do you think Duke, UNC and Kentucky hired the wrong guy?

Who should each have hired instead?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

So do you think Duke, UNC and Kentucky hired the wrong guy?

Who should each have hired instead?

Yes. At the time there were much better candidates

Totally disagree.

Ok. Next time you go to the store, you should voluntarily pay double for your groceries.

Pope is backed by Pitino and the Craft family.

Pitino promoted Travis Ford the last time around lol.

Define "backed". They're backing him after the fact like they would've anyone but cal. But none of these donors are apparently happy how Mitch went dark then turned up with Pope

 

[DreadLox]

And the circumstances Cal left under. He didn’t ride off into the sunset with the adoration of the fanbase. He was spiraling and got out ahead of the posse. This next year was going to be insane if Cal stayed. Lexington’s billboards would have been a war zone.

Love the mixed metaphor. Spiraling out ahead of the posse. Sounds like a cartoon chase.

 

[anonymous_2011]

Rick as the Godfather / Mentor is a wild one but will be helpful in the beginning.

After his time at St Johns is done (if Rick ever retires ) I could see him coming to a few practices here.

 

[catfan220]

Not a huge fan of Gottlieb, but I've been listening to mainly KY pundits talk about it. I wanted to step out and listen to someone else.

He brought up some good points, like the fact that Duke and North Carolina both have coaches that are head coaching for their first time.

Now even he admits that this is a bit different as they were a successor and they have a past head coach in the wing. However, I think Pitino is going to be more involved than we think, which I welcome.

Recruiting is, of course, a consideration, but he has the KY brand behind him and I think Pitino is going to be a great advisor for him.

I'm honestly getting excited. Worried and ticked the first night, but now we have a Kentucky boy that knows and loves this school, and possibly a hall of fame head coach giving advice that loves this school.

Thoughts on his comments?

View embedded media

I think as long as he’s an adequate recruiter (and his personality and moderate recruiting success at BYU last year suggest he is), that part of the equation will take car of itself thanks to our apparently top echelon NIL budget.

 

[silentsaregolden2.0]

I keep seeing his x and o coaching over and over. Ok great but that's only part of the job. And apparently it only applies to offense.

Also I don't want to hear about Hubert and scheyer. But for a miracle run Hubert is a disaster. He'll prove that out in the next few years. Scheyer massively underperformed given the talent. So they are far from the shining examples. Even despite having Jordan and Nike in their respective corners.

Furthermore for the few times this type of hiring actually works, there are 10 examples of how it didn't.

He might do well but there are way too many questions to warrant him being that high on the list. And he damn sure shouldn't be getting paid what we're paying.

We ain't paying him anything. Why do you care how much he is getting paid?

 

[FrankUnderwoodX]

Yes. At the time there were much better candidates



Ok. Next time you go to the store, you should voluntarily pay double for your groceries.



Pitino promoted Travis Ford the last time around lol.

Define "backed". They're backing him after the fact like they would've anyone but cal. But none of these donors are apparently happy how Mitch went dark then turned up with Pope

Who should Duke and UNC have hired?

Who should UK have hired with the assumption (based on reports) that both Donovan and Oats couldn’t/ didn’t want to and Drew and Hurley turning us down?

Edit- I don’t doubt you’re a UK fan man but you seem miserable about it. Which is unfortunate.

 

[acatnamedmyra]

Nonsense. You pay someone what it takes and nothing more. He's overpaid by double. Pope would've accepted for at least half this money. Maybe less. Only Mitch would pay double for a stretch hire.

Also it isn't exactly a secret done boosters are not pleased. The school only pays 400k of that contract and the rest is a combination of donations and marketing deals. At least some of these fund sources are not happy about Mitch going rogue and spending this much on a reach.

Okay, so you’re the first big negative, aren’t you precious.

 

[meteordealer]

Yes. At the time there were much better candidates



Ok. Next time you go to the store, you should voluntarily pay double for your groceries.



Pitino promoted Travis Ford the last time around lol.

Define "backed". They're backing him after the fact like they would've anyone but cal. But none of these donors are apparently happy how Mitch went dark then turned up with Pope

Pope has a track record of success, and winning at places that are pretty much impossible to win at. I am fairly confident he will kill it at UK.

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

The advantage Scheyer/Davis have over Pope is more about they were on staff and recruited to the schools they work at. So they had relationships within the industry to help them recruit and transfer over smoother than coming from out of nowhere to the big stage.

Pope's advantage over them is he's run his own program and been under the microscope of having that pressure as the HC and not at a place that provides resources and attracts better players like Kentucky.

Pitino/ex-players are giddy because they have one of "their own" in charge and it's no longer Calipari Basketball Academy sponsored by the University of Kentucky-it's Kentucky again.

What will decide whether this works or not is simply how soon Pope can use the assets he lacked at Utah Valley/BYU to his advantage and win games. Simple enough.

 

[meteordealer]

Who should Duke and UNC have hired?

Who should UK have hired with the assumption (based on reports) that both Donovan and Oats couldn’t/ didn’t want to and Drew and Hurley turning us down?

Edit- I don’t doubt you’re a UK fan man but you seem miserable about it. Which is unfortunate.

When we start winning 30+ games per year, and getting to back to back Final Fours/Title games, he will pretend he was all for Pope the whole time.

 

[JRCAT14]

Yes. At the time there were much better candidates



Ok. Next time you go to the store, you should voluntarily pay double for your groceries.



Pitino promoted Travis Ford the last time around lol.

Define "backed". They're backing him after the fact like they would've anyone but cal. But none of these donors are apparently happy how Mitch went dark then turned up with Pope

Already doing that!
Depending upon your definition of "voluntarily". 😉

 

[NociHTTP]

Nonsense. You pay someone what it takes and nothing more. He's overpaid by double. Pope would've accepted for at least half this money. Maybe less. Only Mitch would pay double for a stretch hire.

Also it isn't exactly a secret done boosters are not pleased. The school only pays 400k of that contract and the rest is a combination of donations and marketing deals. At least some of these fund sources are not happy about Mitch going rogue and spending this much on a reach.

Since you want to suggest secrets, show all of us proof that the boosters aren't pleased with the hiring of Pope.

 

[WildcatSir]

These make Pitino the GM

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Since you want to suggest secrets, show all of us proof that the boosters aren't pleased with the hiring of Pope.

They absolutely were not happy how Mitch went about it. I'm not even close to some basketball insider. So if I know this, it isn't exactly a secret.

We ain't paying him anything. Why do you care how much he is getting paid?

Because it's objectively a waste of money that could be better put to use in other ways.

Who should Duke and UNC have hired?

Who should UK have hired with the assumption (based on reports) that both Donovan and Oats couldn’t/ didn’t want to and Drew and Hurley turning us down?

Edit- I don’t doubt you’re a UK fan man but you seem miserable about it. Which is unfortunate.

I'm not miserable. I'm just objective.

Okay, so you’re the first big negative, aren’t you precious.

Objectivity might seem like negativity in the face of unreasonable sunshine pumping. Pope can still be good here. He just needs way more to go right than some others would.

Pope has a track record of success, and winning at places that are pretty much impossible to win at. I am fairly confident he will kill it at UK.

You are confident he will contend for championships? Because that's what any UK coach needs to do. Historically BYU was always as good as the Mormon prospects that year. Sometimes good but usually ok at best. Winning there isn't something never done before it's just been a while. And this might be the first person to do it without predominantly Mormon players.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

I keep seeing his x and o coaching over and over. Ok great but that's only part of the job. And apparently it only applies to offense.

Also I don't want to hear about Hubert and scheyer. But for a miracle run Hubert is a disaster. He'll prove that out in the next few years. Scheyer massively underperformed given the talent. So they are far from the shining examples. Even despite having Jordan and Nike in their respective corners.

Furthermore for the few times this type of hiring actually works, there are 10 examples of how it didn't.

He might do well but there are way too many questions to warrant him being that high on the list. And he damn sure shouldn't be getting paid what we're paying.

Do you feel better now because most people have gotten over the shock and their anger is gonna throw their support behind Pope but a few of you guys want to keep being curmudgeons just go ahead