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Do you blame Stoops at all for letting Coen hold the program hostage like he has ?

Uncle Adolph

Uncle Adolph

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Aug 9, 2019
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The 'interviewing' process has been going on for about three weeks now. At some point should he have told Coen I need to know right now are you staying or going.
I have to look out for the well being of the FB program not waiting for you to go through this song and dance for ever.
I still have to wonder if there are things that have happened behind the scenes that we will never know about.
I guess one persons idea of putting down roots and another persons idea of it are different.
The timing of this is horrible.
 
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Good question...not sure I can answer confidently.

But here is one question I have...what were Stoops options? He could have fired Coen (but wouldn't we have owed his contract?.....which is a no-way option if we are the hook for his salary).

Maybe the answer is these contracts have to have stipulations if you're looking...we can fire you w/o havign to payout. which no coach would sign to begin with.
 
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I'll always wonder if Coen's health scare figured into putting rabbit in his blood.

Have to figure Coen's probably not real keen on recruiting...and who could blame him? Leaving your young family to jump on a plane to fly to BFE to kiss the ass of some 18y/o can't be real enjoyable.

Seems to me UK/Stoops/Coen need to have a come to Jesus meeting. Time to shit or get off the pot.
 
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mrschwump said:
I'll always wonder if Coen's health scare figured into putting rabbit in his blood.

Have to figure Coen's probably not real keen on recruiting...and who could blame him? Leaving your young family to jump on a plane to fly to BFE to kiss the ass of some 18y/o can't be real enjoyable.

Seems to me UK/Stoops/Coen need to have a come to Jesus meeting. Time to shit or get off the pot.
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Makes sense to me
 
Uncle Adolph said:
The 'interviewing' process has been going on for about three weeks now. At some point should he have told Coen I need to know right now are you staying or going.
I have to look out for the well being of the FB program not waiting for you to go through this song and dance for ever.
I still have to wonder if there are things that have happened behind the scenes that we will never know about.
I guess one persons idea of putting down roots and another persons idea of it are different.
The timing of this is horrible.
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Remember the Stoops to Texas A&M fiasco. At the time it was reported the assistants didn’t want to follow. I may be wrong but I’ve often thought about the relationships between Stoops and his assistants afterwards.
 
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The contract Coen signed was the problem. It allowed him way too much latitude to terminate his contract at any time
 
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Not at all, I don’t see where Coen was “holding the program hostage” at all, he was very open about interviewing. Even going back to when Neal Brown came on as OC, Stoops said he wasn’t going to hold any coach back from a career move (in so many words), which is how it should be. Why should Stoops try to hold a coach hostage?
 
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I don't blame Stoops for Coen being what he is, a serial job-hopper with a fairly ho-hum body of overall work if we're being honest. I DO blame Stoops if he's been caught with his pants at his ankles after all these interviews and he doesn't have a replacement lined out. The minute Coen started his grand tour of NFL offices, I hope Stoops was hammering out handshake deals to replace him.
 
Uncle Adolph said:
The 'interviewing' process has been going on for about three weeks now. At some point should he have told Coen I need to know right now are you staying or going.
I have to look out for the well being of the FB program not waiting for you to go through this song and dance for ever.
I still have to wonder if there are things that have happened behind the scenes that we will never know about.
I guess one persons idea of putting down roots and another persons idea of it are different.
The timing of this is horrible.
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LOL. Coaches come and go. For sure, the decision to bring Coen back is more interesting now in hindsight. Hindsight is always 20-20. The optics of having 6 OCs in 6 seasons are not optimal. But SEC teams lose coordinators like trees lose leaves. Kirby lost Monkin and Lanning. It's a business. Our fans need to look around and understand how common this is. Comparatively, UK actually has one of the more stable SEC staffs. People could choose to be happy we aren't losing Marrow or White.

Having said that, the best head coaches address these situations by upgrading. I hate the lack of continuity but this is an opportunity to do better. The SEC is an attractive coaching environment, and UK is paying coordinators enough money to be a player for top candidates. Stoops needs to score here. We can't expect every coach to stay indefinitely, but this doesn't have to be a stepping stone job either.
 
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Rembrandt90 said:
LOL. Coaches come and go. For sure, the decision to bring Coen back is more interesting now in hindsight. Hindsight is always 20-20. The optics of having 6 OCs in 6 seasons are not optimal. But SEC teams lose coordinators like trees lose leaves. Kirby lost Monkin and Lanning. It's a business. Our fans need to look around and understand how common this is. Comparatively, UK actually has one of the more stable SEC staffs. People could choose to be happy we aren't losing Marrow or White.

Having said that, the best head coaches address these situations by upgrading. I hate the lack of continuity but this is an opportunity to do better. The SEC is an attractive coaching environment, and UK is paying coordinators enough money to be a player for top candidates. Stoops needs to score here. We can't expect every coach to stay indefinitely, but this doesn't have to be a stepping stone job either.
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I pretty much agree with you but the timing and the optics here are terrible.
Coen just comes over as being desperate to get out of town to anyplace he can
He has interviewed for so many jobs that it seems the fanbase after awhile seem to be taking it personally which I agree is silly in this business.
 
Guys, Nick Saban and Alabama can't keep coaches.

It is the nature of the beast. Staff, whether it's position coaches or coordinators, generally speaking are guys climbing the ladder looking for opportunities.

Also, until administrations want to fully commit to coaches, and coaches to admins/programs. Then this is what it's going to be.

We're mad at LC? Dude has no loyalty to us or UK. He really doesn't owe us anything. He did us the favor by even considering us in the first place. Dude is from the hottest coaching lineage in all of football he's got a job whenever and wherever he wants...especially pros.

How about an HC who's been here 12 years, extended, and paid top dollar for mediocre football looking around?!

Until coaches, athletic/admins, conferences, BCS, NCAA, etc...all want to get together and hammer out a concrete framework for more secure employment. It's going to be silly carousel season, every season, all season long.

Some sort of collective bargaining that agrees to 4-5 year, admins can't fire, and coaches can't sniff around no matter what. Meaning 1-11 in year 2, coach can't be messed with for another couple of years.

Same goes for staff. Shit offense, OC can't find the endzone with google maps and flashlight...too bad...he's a first-year guy with 4 more years left.

Are we fans ready for that? We want guys fired on game day for single play calls.
 
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Question. If everything is still up in the air, can he be an effective recruiter this weekend at JR day ?
 
mrschwump said:
I'll always wonder if Coen's health scare figured into putting rabbit in his blood.

Have to figure Coen's probably not real keen on recruiting...and who could blame him? Leaving your young family to jump on a plane to fly to BFE to kiss the ass of some 18y/o can't be real enjoyable.

Seems to me UK/Stoops/Coen need to have a come to Jesus meeting. Time to shit or get off the pot.
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Stoops and Coen already did shit. Right in our program. Screw the both of them.
 
Imafan4evr_ said:
I don't blame Stoops for Coen being what he is, a serial job-hopper with a fairly ho-hum body of overall work if we're being honest. I DO blame Stoops if he's been caught with his pants at his ankles after all these interviews and he doesn't have a replacement lined out. The minute Coen started his grand tour of NFL offices, I hope Stoops was hammering out handshake deals to replace him.
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Fair take…simple truth of the mater is that the ”legend” on Liam Coen was based upon him being McVay’s boy (and isnt it interesting that McVay really didnt try to keep him) and 1/2 of a season with Levis, Wandale, CROD, and a number of NFL’ers on the OL. If we are being honest with each other, the O disappointed in 2023 and there were rumors of discipline problems and lack of cohesion, which are 100% ultimately on Coen.

Now the real question to me, is what does Stoops do next? Go for another high ceiling low floor NFL coach, or go after a solid but unspectacular guy like Moorhead?
 
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If Stoops had anything remotely resembling a pair.... he would just let Liam go NOW . Dude doesn't want to be here so leadership should help him achieve his goal. But I know neither Stoops or Barnhart have the leadership abilities to make that move
 
Uncle Adolph said:
I pretty much agree with you but the timing and the optics here are terrible.
Coen just comes over as being desperate to get out of town to anyplace he can
He has interviewed for so many jobs that it seems the fanbase after awhile seem to be taking it personally which I agree is silly in this business.
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Then when is a good time to lose a coordinator? The silver lining is that a lot of candidates are available now.
 
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Tedington68 said:
If Stoops had anything remotely resembling a pair.... he would just let Liam go NOW . Dude doesn't want to be here so leadership should help him achieve his goal. But I know neither Stoops or Barnhart have the leadership abilities to make that move
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Liam Coen is gone. They are just working out the last details of his contract. The optics are already bad. Firing him when he is already out the door is a ridiculous, self defeating idea.
 
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Nawlij said:
Fair take…simple truth of the mater is that the ”legend” on Liam Coen was based upon him being McVay’s boy (and isnt it interesting that McVay really didnt try to keep him) and 1/2 of a season with Levis, Wandale, CROD, and a number of NFL’ers on the OL. If we are being honest with each other, the O disappointed in 2023 and there were rumors of discipline problems and lack of cohesion, which are 100% ultimately on Coen.

Now the real question to me, is what does Stoops do next? Go for another high ceiling low floor NFL coach, or go after a solid but unspectacular guy like Moorhead?
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Right. Stoops should take whatever time he needs and apply what he has learned. The perceived rush to hire right away that some posters are expressing is contrived. Stoops has until the second half of February to hire a replacement if he needs that long. I could be wrong but I can't see Stoops actually hiring Moorhead even though I know they have discussed the position in the past. I don't think you can hire a coordinator specifically because you don't think he will leave. First of all, any coach can leave. Besides that, it is better when other programs like your coaches. It is bad when they don't.

Stoops is right to hire young coaches who can recruit and develop talent. Dawson and Scan were stylistic mistakes. In both cases, Stoops mainly trusted a single reference from a credible person and hired without enough background. Coen checked all the boxes but has some personal idiosyncrasies. You can't always see that coming, but I think it's fair now to look back at the decision to bring Coen back from LA and ask whether this outcome was inevitable. At the end of the day, every SEC program loses coordinators, but Stoops must do a better job of hiring guys who move the program forward. It's a challenge for every head coach.

Stoops will hire someone we don't expect. Always happens. Someone like KSR will get a leak and break the news but that won't happen until the deal has already been struck. Until then, we can talk about who we might prefer, but it is unlikely that we will guess correctly.
 
I know it's frustrating to lose an assistant at what seems like a bad time. I know UK fans were excited about getting him back. But I was never impressed with him, yes he was the OC of a 10 win team, but how much of that success was because of the personal than him? I think he got much more credit for that team than he deserved.
 
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BlueRaider22 said:
This is pretty much it. We have no idea what has been said or not said. So, no, I don't blame Stoops.
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Not a little? You don’t think his micromanaging handcuffs our OCs and makes them always on the lookout for the next gig?
 
Grumpyolddawg said:
I know it's frustrating to lose an assistant at what seems like a bad time. I know UK fans were excited about getting him back. But I was never impressed with him, yes he was the OC of a 10 win team, but how much of that success was because of the personal than him? I think he got much more credit for that team than he deserved.
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In hindsight, I think you are right
 
Rembrandt90 said:
Liam Coen is gone. They are just working out the last details of his contract. The optics are already bad. Firing him when he is already out the door is a ridiculous, self defeating idea.
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It wasn't about firing Liam but about hiring his replacement and if Liams deal had fallen through....well....sucks to be him , he was already replaced.
But you are correct, it's over now and pointless
 
Stoops leaving and being rejected is why coen left. Stoops hired coen multi year then pulled a jack move on coen. I don’t think coen wanted any part of more drama like that. He’s career driven and stoops pulled the rug. If stoops hadn’t tried to leave coen would still be here another season.
 
Rembrandt90 said:
Liam Coen is gone. They are just working out the last details of his contract. The optics are already bad. Firing him when he is already out the door is a ridiculous, self defeating idea.
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Agreed, not to mention it would cost us whatever Tampa Bay owes us for the buyout and probably sticks US with paying a buyout.
 
Wildcats1st said:
Stoops leaving and being rejected is why coen left. Stoops hired coen multi year then pulled a jack move on coen. I don’t think coen wanted any part of more drama like that. He’s career driven and stoops pulled the rug. If stoops hadn’t tried to leave coen would still be here another season.
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Maybe, but we'll never really know that.
 
mrschwump said:
I'll always wonder if Coen's health scare figured into putting rabbit in his blood.

Have to figure Coen's probably not real keen on recruiting...and who could blame him? Leaving your young family to jump on a plane to fly to BFE to kiss the ass of some 18y/o can't be real enjoyable.

Seems to me UK/Stoops/Coen need to have a come to Jesus meeting. Time to shit or get off the pot.
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Not only that, now they are having to kiss the ass of unhappy college players .
 
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ky-usc2020 said:
Remember the Stoops to Texas A&M fiasco. At the time it was reported the assistants didn’t want to follow. I may be wrong but I’ve often thought about the relationships between Stoops and his assistants afterwards.
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Do we know that there is a problem between the two? or is this just our interpretation/message board fodder.

it seems CMS interviews every chance he gets. Maybe it is "normal" to these guys and they expect it.
 
truebluewildcat said:
Guys, Nick Saban and Alabama can't keep coaches.

It is the nature of the beast. Staff, whether it's position coaches or coordinators, generally speaking are guys climbing the ladder looking for opportunities.

Also, until administrations want to fully commit to coaches, and coaches to admins/programs. Then this is what it's going to be.
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Exactly. We can bitch about it all we want. Won't change it. We could stop being immature about it, and accept it for what it is.
 
Wildcats1st said:
Stoops leaving and being rejected is why coen left. Stoops hired coen multi year then pulled a jack move on coen. I don’t think coen wanted any part of more drama like that. He’s career driven and stoops pulled the rug. If stoops hadn’t tried to leave coen would still be here another season.
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I don't think that was it. But as you said Coen was/is carrer driven. He was very popular with the UK fanbase until he starting applying for every NFL opening. It is just as likely CMS was gone and Coen was going to be named head coach. The new job fell through and Coen started looking around.
 
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