It is blatantly obvious that you didn't read the whole thread or even a whole lot of the thread. I realize this is a longer thread than most but I always feel like reading the thread and then posting is one way not to look like an idiot.
Correct me if im wrong, but does UK have 7 Helms titles?
- Thread starter TyCatPrice14
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It is blatantly obvious that you didn't read the whole thread or even a whole lot of the thread. I realize this is a longer thread than most but I always feel like reading the thread and then posting is one way not to look like an idiot.
Umm... one actually occurred on the court, KU getting beat 22 times.
Your Helms titles were bestowed upon you by a marketing executive. One guy. Not a group. One guy went back and named his own champions on behalf of his money man. The owner of a bread company.
And this was done over 20 years later. You can acknowledge them as credible all you want but you will just look foolish.
I do concede that getting your ass handed to you 22-6 is laughable as well. Especially last year, of course Temple handed it to you as well so it loses a little bit of its shine.
It just gets so boring. In my mind KU has two national titles, AND
You are right, but it just gets so boring.
I don't really care about Helms banners. If they were the only way a "champion" was decided back in the day, then hang 'em!
If there was another way and a different "champ" can be recognized, then tear them down.
In my mind, we have won two. The others are great and recognize great teams, but are separate from the rest.
Relax Kentucky fans. You win.
For now.
How many schools hang Helms banners is a good question, but would probably take a long time to figure out. Almost every Helms pre-tournament champion recognizes it as a national championship, though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythical_national_championship
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythical_national_championship
It's not a problem to recognize Helm's awards, but you just gotta know that they're not the same thing as an NCAA National Championship. I think it would be acceptable for anyone to have a banner that says something like "NCAA Helm's Champion (insert year here)" instead of saying the exact same thing as an actual National Championship banner.
What a distinguished list. You guys deserve to be mentioned with many of those lower tiered programs. Congratulations.
This was answered in last week thread on Helms Foundation on Rupp Rafters. This seems to be a popular subject here. I think Washington St, 'Cuse, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Purdue and Pitt were the ones several UK posters mentioned by name. I have seen the ones at Allen and at Dean Dome. The others I have not seen in person. But some nice posters in last week's thread or the week before were kind enough to post pictures.
The ones at AFH and the Dean Dome both say "National Championship" with no mention or no NCAA logo.
I guess it would be a bit much to add the text:
"Decided by one guy who was trying to get money from a bread factory owner 20 years after the fact"
Just put National Champions on it, nothing misleading about that...
3.
And the media doesn't mention Helms titles when they mention KU championships. They mention the 3.
I don't think you read his book. I read his book a long time ago. I reordered on Amazon.com last night. I will do the research. I can give you the page numbers of his quotes on how he played on a 'National Championship team'. That team was the '23 Jayhawks. Coach Rupp is a part of the Kansas Coaching Tree. I understand that even if Coach Rupp claimed the Helms Foundation Championship then, that they are not accepted by the UK fans...now.
You don't have to research for me Miss Kitty. Here is Rupp in his own words calling your horseshit banner a mythical title.
Go buy a book on integrity and research that for awhile.
http://www.amazon.com/Adolph-Rupp-Kentuckys-Basketball-Baron/dp/B00CC7B7SI#reader_B00CC7B7SI
Here is the front flap of Russell Rice's book, Adolph Rupp: Kentucky's Basketball Baron, authorized by Coach Rupp. Again, I know that one man's opinion, Coach Rupp was a great man however, shouldn't change the minds of the entire UK fan base. My point was and still is that Coach Rupp accepted the Helms Foundation Championship as a 'National Championship'. That's all. I am not trying to change the minds of the BBN. I know that would be a waste of time. UK and Duke fans don't think highly of the Helms. You have been very clear in your though process except the for the Ding Dongs part, they were not produced by Helms.
Here is the front flap of Russell Rice's book, Adolph Rupp: Kentucky's Basketball Baron, authorized by Coach Rupp. Again, I know that one man's opinion, Coach Rupp was a great man however, shouldn't change the minds of the entire UK fan base. My point was and still is that Coach Rupp accepted the Helms Foundation Championship as a 'National Championship'. That's all. I am not trying to change the minds of the BBN. I know that would be a waste of time. UK and Duke fans don't think highly of the Helms. You have been very clear in your though process except the for the Ding Dongs part, they were not produced by Helms.
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Wrong again cowgirl.
You are using Russell Rice's words, Not Rupp's, see the post above and reread exactly what Rupp said; "Mythical Championships".
Lacking comprehension skills there Dale Evans.
Providing a written portion of the his authorized biography is not proof for you. I am beginning to realize that if Coach Rupp would rise from his grave, you would have some Trigger, Dale, June or Roy Rogers come back. I am not trying to be disrespectful here. But I understand that you will never change your mind or consider anything outside of your strong beliefs that you hold today. Brian, I will move you out of the 'Undecided' column.
That might be hair splitting as I'm pretty sure the ones in the Dean Dome have the official Final Four logo from each particular year.
You are right. The '24 Helms has the UNC logo on it and the others have the logo of the Final Four. Kansas just has the words "National Champions" on all five.
I would be so freaking embarrassed if UK tried to hang our Helms titles and pass them off as legit on the same level as an NCAA Championship.
Kansas and UNC are pathetic.
Kansas because their title count is hilariously low relative to their supposed blue blood status.
UNC because they have Duke envy.
Bitches.
Kansas and UNC are pathetic.
Kansas because their title count is hilariously low relative to their supposed blue blood status.
UNC because they have Duke envy.
Bitches.
Kansas better start searching for a new mythical title, UK and Duke are dominating the game. Kansas is now an after thought.
I found this funny. The seasons for which KU was awarded the Helms titles were actually played 8-9 years before Helms bakery was founded.
KU received a 5 year supply of free Bagels for being awarded this title. Sadly, the bagels were worth more than the title...
That's a key point, there was NO accepted way to name a champion during that era.
To go beyond that I'd argue that for a number of reasons (I.e. Lack of intersectional play, small number of games etc.) , it's not even statistically possible to determine the best team with any accuracy during the early part of the century.
As for your last statement about if there was a better way, I hope you realize that for 1922 Premo-Poretta (an alternative to Helms which has set out to assess and rank early college teams) chose Missouri as the top team instead of Kansas.
I'm wondering if people decided that Premo-Poretta was more accurate than Schroeder (Helms) in these early picks, how many Jayhawk fans would be in favor of taking their banner down and letting Missouri raise one (and actually two as they were also named in 1921) instead?
Problem with your solution is the NCAA has nothing to do with it. And even if they did, especially in the first half of the century not all Universities were members of the NCAA anyway.
Also as I mentioned before it's not really a championship, but a title.
If the banner read "Helms" with the year that would probably be best. (This, BTW, was exactly how UNC presented their Helms banner IIRC before they got spooked by Duke.)
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You guys merely downplayed the importance of actual NCAA titles to uplift the charade of your mythical titles. That's desperate. "LOOK AT ME!!!"
The reason Kansas was awarded the Helms title is because they beat Missouri by ten in Columbia towards the end of the season. Helms just followed traditional American championship awards, giving the title to the team who played better at the end. That said, I wouldn't mind if Missouri wanted to claim that title. Their choice.
Well, after reading this thread, it's safe to say that the majority of KU fans would mind. They're seriously three pages into whining about something that ISU actually accomplished on the court.
Oh, and needless to say, and considering the fact that KU hangs/claims Helms titles, the irony in some of those comments is comical. I mean, how dense and hypocritical can one bunch be?
This one was my favorite and needs no explanation; I absolutely care when other teams fraudulently claiming to be Big 12 champions, but every team does it so I guess I should be used to it. I think teams really started doing this once KU started winning the conference every single year and they realized this is the best they can hope for. I think Mizzou did this first just to pizz off KU and now other schools don't want to miss their opportunity to claim the false title.
Here's how I read it; I absolutely care when other teams are fraudulently claiming to be national champions. I think KU and UNC really started doing this once they fell behind the other bluebloods in titles and they realized this is the best they can hope for. I think UNC did this first just to pizz off Duke and now KU doesn't want to miss their opportunity to claim the false title.
Helms titles are not banner worthy, Jayhawks.
Accept this, and move on.
Accept this, and move on.
Well I'm certainly excited about UK coming to Lawrence. Should be a great game. You guys really seem excited about Murray, so that's a great pick up for you guys in the late stages of recruiting. Can't stand the NCAA and their snails pace of working, but obviously want both Skal and Diallo to be cleared and each team to have an injury free season. Hopefully we get a return game to Rupp next year.
Yeah I think it's weak that KU places and labels their Helms and NCAA titles to be one in the same. Unfortunately I don't have any control over this. It has kept me from purchasing a thing or two over the years that has all 5 banners included. Fortunately we live in a time where March (and hopefully April too) is the best month of the year. Don't really care what UNC does.
Anyways, 8>3 22>6 150>95 Rupp was a Jayhawk first, Cal is a slime ball, Self wears a hair piece blah blah blah. Love that you guys constantly talk hoops year round and can't wait for the upcoming season
Yeah I think it's weak that KU places and labels their Helms and NCAA titles to be one in the same. Unfortunately I don't have any control over this. It has kept me from purchasing a thing or two over the years that has all 5 banners included. Fortunately we live in a time where March (and hopefully April too) is the best month of the year. Don't really care what UNC does.
Anyways, 8>3 22>6 150>95 Rupp was a Jayhawk first, Cal is a slime ball, Self wears a hair piece blah blah blah. Love that you guys constantly talk hoops year round and can't wait for the upcoming season
Anyone notice this guy is starting to sound a lot like Bobbi Swickle Perv or whatever his name was from INC? Uses the same passive aggressive manner, out of context facts and irrelevant observations in an effort to paint a questionable practice in a program in a good light. Maybe that's what happens when you adopt a lower standard.
The actual authorized biography written by a Kentucky insider and approved by Coach Rupp isn't really taking facts out of context or irrelevant. Polite straight forward honest opinion is not passive aggressiveness. But I have no clue who Bobbi is. But the tone of your post doesn't sound like it is a compliment. Must be another Kentucky thing...
I've read that book. More than once, actually. And you are trying to drag comments made by Rupp or that author in a different generation without the background associated with this thread. Not only is that out of context and irrelevant, it evades the entire point of the discussion. Yup, vintage Bobbi.
You do make one good point. It is a Kentucky thing. We seem to attract a lot of weirdo fans from other boards.
What I said is that at one time Rupp considered the Helms Foundation Championship to be a 'National Championship'. A poster said prove it and I quoted one section that I had access to. I never said that it proves that the Helms Foundation Championship is or isn't valid. That is an entirely different question. Rupp's book written by his close friend quoting Rupp talking about his playing days on the Jayhawks' National Championship team is proof that he considered the Helms Champions as a 'National Championship'. If he didn't, he wouldn't have used those words.
Hey dumb ass, Russell Rice wrote Coach Rupp's biography 17 YEARS after Coach Rupp died. He did so because people at UK (and Jim Host) asked him to do it. Rupp never "authorized" anything. He was in the ground for 17 years prior. Furthermore, Rice had no intentions of writing a biography of Rupp. He was retired, living in Florida, and was approached and prodded into doing it. If you had read the book, you would know this. By the way, it's called Adolph Rupp- Kentucky's Basketball Baron.
