Continuing the polite debate: Malik Newman as high school senior vs. Devin Booker as college frosh.

[Son_Of_Saul]

Respectfully continuing a discussion from before:

@Wildcat-in-STL , @drcats2013 , and others thought it was a horrible take to think that Newman had a better draft projection in January of 2015 (Booker's first year at UK before the lottery talk) than Booker at that point. I'm wondering how the two of you, and the other guy who agreed with you, care to elaborate on your positions. I respectfully await your views.

Reminder:

Booker was a college frosh when Newman was a high school senior. My post was made in January of 2015, before Booker registered on any reasonable draft boards and while Newman was still considered the top guard in his high school class.

I'm curious to extending this argument to see what others think, looking back at how perceptions of the two players actually were at the time.

Bottom line: at the time, did NBA GMs value a January 2015 college frosh Booker more than a January 2015 high school senior Newman? Was the gulf so wide as to dismiss what I wrote in 2015?

Let's hear the argument.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Respectfully continuing a discussion from before:

@Wildcat-in-STL , @drcats2013 , and others thought it was a horrible take to think that Newman had a better draft projection in January of 2015 (Booker's first year at UK before the lottery talk) than Booker at that point. I'm wondering how the two of you, and the other guy who agreed with you, care to elaborate on your positions. I respectfully await your views.

Reminder:

Booker was a college frosh when Newman was a high school senior. My post was made in January of 2015, before Booker registered on any reasonable draft boards and while Newman was still considered the top guard in his high school class.

I'm curious to extending this argument to see what others think, looking back at how perceptions of the two players actually were at the time.

Bottom line: at the time, did NBA GMs value a January 2015 college frosh Booker more than a January 2015 high school senior Newman? Was the gulf so wide as to dismiss what I wrote in 2015?

Let's hear the argument.

I answered this in the other thread.

And seems VERY odd to start a whole separate thread about something so trivial.

You stated back then that Malik Newman was better than Devin Booker.

You were incorrect.

As were a lot of people I'm sure.

It's okay to admit that you were wrong back then.

And at the end of the day, who cares.

This is pretty pathetic.

 

[drcats2013]

Respectfully continuing a discussion from before:

@Wildcat-in-STL , @drcats2013 , and others thought it was a horrible take to think that Newman had a better draft projection in January of 2015 (Booker's first year at UK before the lottery talk) than Booker at that point. I'm wondering how the two of you, and the other guy who agreed with you, care to elaborate on your positions. I respectfully await your views.

Reminder:

Booker was a college frosh when Newman was a high school senior. My post was made in January of 2015, before Booker registered on any reasonable draft boards and while Newman was still considered the top guard in his high school class.

I'm curious to extending this argument to see what others think, looking back at how perceptions of the two players actually were at the time.

Bottom line: at the time, did NBA GMs value a January 2015 college frosh Booker more than a January 2015 high school senior Newman? Was the gulf so wide as to dismiss what I wrote in 2015?

Let's hear the argument.

Nothing to argue. It simply turned out wrong, regardless of how valid it was at the time. That’s all I was saying and found it funny, as you should have.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I answered this in the other thread.

And seems VERY odd to start a whole separate thread about something so trivial.

It's okay to admit that you were wrong back then.

This is pretty pathetic.

You never answered my question or remotely addressed the actual framework of my argument. You compared freshman Newman to freshman Booker, which was never my argument. I don't think it's pathetic to defend an actually stated position against an artificial criteria that someone (you) presented as my argument.

You created a totally different argument, and one I didn't pose.

So can you answer my actual question?

 

[drcats2013]

I answered this in the other thread.

And seems VERY odd to start a whole separate thread about something so trivial.

You stated back then that Malik Newman was better than Devin Booker.

You were incorrect.

As were a lot of people I'm sure.

It's okay to admit that you were wrong back then.

And at the end of the day, who cares.

This is pretty pathetic.

This X100000

 

[Tampa_cat54]

The other thread was deleted.

And you never answered my question. You compared freshman Newman to freshman Booker, which was never my argument. I don't think it's pathetic to defend an actually stated position against an artificial criteria that someone (you) presented as my argument.

You created a totally different argument, and one I didn't pose.

So can you answer my actual question?

Read my above statement.

This is one of the strangest threads I've ever seen on here.

 

[Newcat38]

Seems like another "look at me" thread starter from the OP. You obviously don't know the game as well as you think you do. Devin Booker is on the cusp of being an All-Star. Malik Newman is on the cusp of taking a part time job at Uber to make ends meet.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Seems like another "look at me" thread starter from the OP. You obviously don't know the game as well as you think you do. Devin Booker is on the cusp of being an All-Star. Malik Newman is on the cusp of taking a part time job at Uber to make ends meet.

Always thankful for your Memphis-fan take on things.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Read my above statement.

This is one of the strangest threads I've ever seen on here.

Your above statement doesn't really address the reality back then.

Hindsight is always perfect.

Guess you knew Booker would be a max player and that Newman would be a bust.

Good to note.

 

[Newcat38]

Always thankful for your Memphis-fan take on things.

Interesting that you reply to me on this thread...and try to change the narrative on how stupid you look in hindsight. I guess since I'm a bit more open minded that constitutes me as being a fan of other schools. You're simply a childish poster in the vein of that morgusky character.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Interesting that you reply to me on this thread...and try to change the narrative on how stupid you look in hindsight. I guess since I'm a bit more open minded that constitutes me being a fan of other schools. You're simply a childish poster in the vein of that morgusky character.

This actually made me chuckle. Well done, my boy! Well done!

 

[Newcat38]

Your above statement doesn't address my question or my actual argument I made about four years ago. You opened the door for debate, and now you're rejecting actual discourse? That's curious.

You must be a revisionist when it comes to actual perceptions in 2015. I can live with that.

Hindsight is a great weapon when you neglect actual historical perception.

Give it up. You were wrong back then and nothing has changed. School's out.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Give it up. You were wrong back then and nothing has changed. School's out.

Not your best work, but showing improvement.

 

[Newcat38]

Not your best work, but showing improvement.

I think you need to move along son. Dragging up 3 year old threads for discussion because it exposes you as the basketball neophyte you are..isn't a good look son. Might work on those adolescents you supposedly teach but not here. You obviously have a "burning" desire to be accepted as some type of oracle to others here. However, you likely just need a bit of blue star oilment for that problem.

 

[crawfords corner]

Ok, so let's say Newman was the better player back then. What does it have to do with anything in 2018? Devin Booker, in July, signed a contract 5 year contract extension for 158 million dollars. Meanwhile, Malik Newman just got waived by the Lakers


Score
Booker 37 million dollars from 2015-2019
Malik Newman 0 million dollars and no job

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Your above statement doesn't really address the reality back then.

Hindsight is always perfect.

Guess you knew Booker would be a max player and that Newman would be a bust.

Good to note.

No, of course I didn't know that.

I have ALWAYS believed that Booker was better than Newman, but I had no clue to what extent.

But I'm not the one starting threads trying to prove that I was right when you CLEARLY WERE NOT RIGHT.

This is so bizarre.

I have been wrong about plenty of stuff in my day in regards to who is going to be better than who.

Hell, I thought Ryan Harrow would be better than Marquise Teague.

WHO THE MOTHER F*&CK CARES?!

Why the hell are you starting a thread about this?!

YOU ENDED UP BEING WRONG. Just accept it. We all end up wrong from time to time.

It's simple...Devin Booker is better than Malik Newman.

You should have left this topic in the deleted thread where it came from.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Ok, so let's say Newman was the better player back then. What does it have to do with anything in 2018? Devin Booker, in July, signed a contract 5 year contract extension for 158 million dollars. Meanwhile, Malik Newman just got waived by the Lakers


Score
Booker 37 million dollars from 2015-2019
Malik Newman 0 million dollars and no job

These guys commented on a four year old thread. They opened the door but now apparently don't want to engage in discourse.

As for @Newcat38 , he's still butthurt that I exposed him in his first week here.

I dismiss what he says 90% of the time since he's an avid Memphis fan who offers nothing of substance to the board.

 

[crawfords corner]

These guys commented on a four year old thread. They opened the door but now apparently don't want to engage in discourse.

As for @Newcat38 , he's still butthurt that I exposed him in his first week here.

I dismiss what he says 90% of the time since he's an avid Memphis fan who offers nothing of substance to the board.

Well, I wish they wouldn't have done that. I've never met Newman. He'll never read this. That doesn't mean I don't feel like an a-hole for talking about him like I did. I take no pleasure in him not likely ever fulfilling his dream of playing in the regular season or playoffs in the NBA. He's probably a great kid.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

These guys commented on a four year old thread. They opened the door but now apparently don't want to engage in discourse.

As for @Newcat38 , he's still butthurt that I exposed him in his first week here.

I dismiss what he says 90% of the time since he's an avid Memphis fan who offers nothing of substance to the board.

Uhhh the thread was at the top of the page when I opened it. I didn't bring back anything.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

No, of course I didn't know that.

I have ALWAYS believed that Booker was better than Newman, but I had no clue to what extent.

But I'm not the one starting threads trying to prove that I was right when you CLEARLY WERE NOT RIGHT.

This is so bizarre.

I have been wrong about plenty of stuff in my day in regards to who is going to be better than who.

Hell, I thought Ryan Harrow would be better than Marquise Teague.

WHO THE MOTHER F*&CK CARES?!

Why the hell are you starting a thread about this?!

YOU ENDED UP BEING WRONG. Just accept it. We all end up wrong from time to time.

It's simple...Devin Booker is better than Malik Newman.

You should have left this topic in the deleted thread where it came from.

I accept that Newman is worse than Booker now. I never argued that. I argued that Newman was more valued then and actually projected higher.

You're right that it doesn't matter, but the nuance in the argument is the difference here. You thought Booker was a better played back then. That's fine. Most didn't. And yet, you found it necessary to drag out my post and portray my view as absurd, when in fact many shared it back then.

My position wasn't, even in a worst case, that much of reach back then, and certainly wasn't anywhere close to the reach you've presented it as now.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Uhhh the thread was at the top of the page when I opened it. I didn't bring back anything.

You quoted a four year old thread today. I responded to your quoting of my post.

This is a continuation of the discussion you started.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Everyone was wrong about newman and booker which is why I said makes us look dumb as in everyone

 

[Newcat38]

These guys commented on a four year old thread. They opened the door but now apparently don't want to engage in discourse.

As for @Newcat38 , he's still butthurt that I exposed him in his first week here.

I dismiss what he says 90% of the time since he's an avid Memphis fan who offers nothing of substance to the board.

I guess that 10% is bothering the hell of you right about now then. I'm not the simpleton who decided to argue a discussion from over 3 years ago that's long been settled. The fact that you're still arguing something so trivial is telling. Egotistical behavior at its finest.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Everyone was wrong about newman and booker which is why I said makes us look dumb as in everyone

Fair enough. These quys quoted me after unearthing a four year old thread, then painted my take as absurd.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect them to explain their logic.

I don't mind the "I told you so" element, provided someone can prove they actually "told me so". These guys haven't done that. They're resting on the beaches of hindsight and painting a fairly reasonable argument at the time as absurd.

I'll claim a discourse in such a case. I've been here for a long time, and don't mind defending my positions when called into question.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I guess that 10% is bothering the hell of you right about now then. I'm not the simpleton who decided to argue a discussion from over 3 years ago that's long been settled. The fact that you're still arguing something so trivial is telling. Egotistical behavior at its finest.

Your coach, Penny Hardaway, tampered with a committed recruit.

Now that is eccentric.

 

[Newcat38]

Fair enough. These quys quoted me after unearthing a four year old thread, then painted my take as absurd.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect them to explain their logic.

I don't mind the "I told you so" element, provided someone can prove they actually "told me so". These guys haven't done that. They're resting on the beaches of hindsight and painting a fairly reasonable argument at the time as absurd.

I'll claim a discourse in such a case. I've been here for a long time, and don't mind defending my positions when called into question.

Lol..it's obvious you DO mind. So sad and silly on so many levels. Now it's time to ignore this foolishness for the evening. I'll leave you to your own clueless devices.

 

[Newcat38]

Your coach, Penny Hardaway, tampered with a committed recruit.

Now that is eccentric.

Not my coach son. Too bad you can't seem to learn from this ill conceived thread. Good night Francis.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Lol..it's obvious you DO mind. So sad and silly on so many levels. Now it's time to ignore this foolishness for the evening. I'll leave you to your own clueless devices.

Goodnight, good sir.

Until we meet again on my next pass over your bridge.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

At the time, Newman looked as though he was the better player as booker was a four star guy that was an afterthought with everything we had coming in. I never in a million years thought booker would be the stud he is and Newman would turn out to be what he was.

 

[BlueSince92]

This thread has been a tissue of ad hominem attacks toward the OP and a sad exhibition of the lack of general mutual respect rampant in our society today. I’m answering only to prove that at least one poster here is able to give a straight answer. (If someone else has already done that in the time since I started typing this, kudos to you.)

Yes. Duh. In 2015 January it was perfectly reasonable to think that GMs in general in a league that placed a premium on PGs would value the highest-rated high school PG (in a recruiting class where the #1 position-ranked PG was considered far ahead of the #2 position-ranked PG) over a tough and promising but streaky (slumping) frosh 2 guard whose full skillset seemed to be closer to that of a swingman undersized even for college. Luckily for Booker and for Kentucky bragging rights those appearances proved to be deceiving. But to deny those appearances ever existed is one or some combination of personal ego, excessively blue-tinted glasses, or hindsight, none of which have any place in any reasonable answer to the original question. I’m not saying there wasn’t room in January 2015 to reasonably wonder whether GMs in general may have been wrong, or whether there may have been some GMs who thought differently from the general crowd, only that in January 2015 it was reasonable to think that’s how GMs in general would have seen things given the situation then and what they get paid for.

Whether you love or hate Son of Saul, show your own selves some respect, people. Call a spade a spade.

 

[Cindog28]

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article207989379.html

“Malik was projected as a top-10 pick coming out of high school. It’s not like he played well in March and it was a fluke. He has a great resumé to go along with what he did in March,” Webster added of the 6-foot-3, 190-pound, four-time state champion at Callaway High."

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/bask...drawing-his-name-from-nba-draft-may-transfer/

"Newman shocked just about everyone when he chose Mississippi State over Kentucky and Kansas in April 2015, and that decision led to a rocky first year in Starkville. Between injuries and playing out of position, Newman never really found his groove, averaging only 11.3 points, 2.2 assists, and 1.9 turnovers per game. There are also rumors he never went to class because he thought he would be a one-and-done. Now that he’s not, he’s got some tough decisions to make. If he does transfer, he’ll have to sit out the 2016-2017 season.

Yet another example of John Calipari “missing on a guy” being a blessing in disguise?"

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/high-school/prep-basketball/article44565993.html

"Even if the Wildcats lose Andrew Harrison to the pros after this season, they'll still likely have Tyler Ulis back for a second season, with UK signee Isaiah Briscoe — the No. 1-ranked point guard in the class of 2015 — there to join him.

Briscoe has been trying for months to get Newman to join him as a Wildcat. He has no doubt that they would fit well together with Ulis in Lexington.

"It will work. We'll make it work," Briscoe said. "Whatever it takes to get Malik to come to Kentucky."

Briscoe — UK's only signee at the McDonald's Game — was asked about freshman shooting guard Devin Booker.

"I don't think Devin's staying," he said. "He's having a great year. They're saying he could be a top-20 pick."


I thought Newman was an Adidas kid and Calipari/UK backed off of him with Newman basically begging for a scholarship? I think it makes this argument weird.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

This thread has been a tissue of ad hominem attacks toward the OP and a sad exhibition of the lack of general mutual respect rampant in our society today. I’m answering only to prove that at least one poster here is able to give a straight answer. (If someone else has already done that in the time since I started typing this, kudos to you.)

Yes. Duh. In 2015 January it was perfectly reasonable to think that GMs in general in a league that placed a premium on PGs would value the highest-rated high school PG (in a recruiting class where the #1 position-ranked PG was considered far ahead of the #2 position-ranked PG) over a tough and promising but streaky (slumping) frosh 2 guard whose full skillset seemed to be closer to that of a swingman undersized even for college. Luckily for Booker and for Kentucky bragging rights those appearances proved to be deceiving. But to deny those appearances ever existed is one or some combination of personal ego, excessively blue-tinted glasses, or hindsight, none of which have any place in any reasonable answer to the original question. I’m not saying there wasn’t room in January 2015 to reasonably wonder whether GMs in general may have been wrong, or whether there may have been some GMs who thought differently from the general crowd, only that in January 2015 it was reasonable to think that’s how GMs in general would have seen things given the situation then and what they get paid for.

Whether you love or hate Son of Saul, show your own selves some respect, people. Call a spade a spade.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article207989379.html

“Malik was projected as a top-10 pick coming out of high school. It’s not like he played well in March and it was a fluke. He has a great resumé to go along with what he did in March,” Webster added of the 6-foot-3, 190-pound, four-time state champion at Callaway High."

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/bask...drawing-his-name-from-nba-draft-may-transfer/

"Newman shocked just about everyone when he chose Mississippi State over Kentucky and Kansas in April 2015, and that decision led to a rocky first year in Starkville. Between injuries and playing out of position, Newman never really found his groove, averaging only 11.3 points, 2.2 assists, and 1.9 turnovers per game. There are also rumors he never went to class because he thought he would be a one-and-done. Now that he’s not, he’s got some tough decisions to make. If he does transfer, he’ll have to sit out the 2016-2017 season.

Yet another example of John Calipari “missing on a guy” being a blessing in disguise?"

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/high-school/prep-basketball/article44565993.html

"Even if the Wildcats lose Andrew Harrison to the pros after this season, they'll still likely have Tyler Ulis back for a second season, with UK signee Isaiah Briscoe — the No. 1-ranked point guard in the class of 2015 — there to join him.

Briscoe has been trying for months to get Newman to join him as a Wildcat. He has no doubt that they would fit well together with Ulis in Lexington.

"It will work. We'll make it work," Briscoe said. "Whatever it takes to get Malik to come to Kentucky."

Briscoe — UK's only signee at the McDonald's Game — was asked about freshman shooting guard Devin Booker.

"I don't think Devin's staying," he said. "He's having a great year. They're saying he could be a top-20 pick."


I thought Newman was an Adidas kid and Calipari/UK backed off of him with Newman basically begging for a scholarship? I think it makes this argument weird.

I appreciate both of these posts.

 

[STL_Cat]

The internet is serious business.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

At the time, Newman looked as though he was the better player as booker was a four star guy that was an afterthought with everything we had coming in. I never in a million years thought booker would be the stud he is and Newman would turn out to be what he was.

Another honest post based on the realities at the time.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

The internet is serious business.

In our society it is.

 

[STL_Cat]

In no society is a college basketball message board serious business.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

In no society is a college basketball message board serious business.

I'll remember you said that the next time UK loses a heart breaker in March.

Make sure you swing by here that day to test the firmness of your position.

 

[STL_Cat]

I'll remember you said that the next time UK loses a heart breaker in March.

Make sure you swing by here that day to test the firmness of your position.

Man I feel like you must be joking around right now, I hope you are. I love my Cats. Mortgage still has to get paid and the outcome of the game or especially anything said on this message board means anything in the operating room and frankly anywhere else.

This isn’t serious. None of it.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Man I feel like you must be joking around right now, I hope you are. I love my Cats. Mortgage still has to get paid and the outcome of the game or especially anything said on this message board means anything in the operating room and frankly anywhere else.

This isn’t serious. None of it.

I agree, but your logical position doesn't change how many look at sports, especially in SEC country.

Especially those from Memphis like @Newcat38 who said he was going to bed but can't seem to help himself.

 

[JC43]

Wait a minute, wait, I thought you aren't truly a fan because you never attended or given money to the University...you had to have at least one yr at UK or you are like Keanu before matrix.
Neo-Gato83...
Neophyte
New...
What?