college playoffs (Army)

[JonathanW]

So, Boise St is looking solidly in (if they finish out at 12-1).
But Army is said to not having a chance (if they finish out 13-0 including win vs Notre Dame), UNLESS Boise St loses.

I just don't get it. Yes, Boise St has a tougher schedule, but only slightly.
They both won the games they should win.
Below is a comparison (using computer rankings from Massey), going from highest rated to lowest rated (the one in Red was a LOSS).

1 ... 8
43 30
52 72
77 95
78 96
81 100
87 103
109 110
111 120
112 123
114 124
115 126
NR NR

So, really their schedules will not be that different.
Both playing a top 10 team, Army winning but Boise St losing.
Army's 2nd toughest opponent is ranked ahead of Boise St's.
Boise's St 3rd-7th opponents are all ranked ahead of Army's, BUT for both teams these should all be wins with them all ranked >75.
The rest look quite similar.

So, I argue that if both teams win out, Army (not Boise St) should get into the college playoff.

 

[Bereacat420]

So, Boise St is looking solidly in (if they finish out at 12-1).
But Army is said to not having a chance (if they finish out 13-0 including win vs Notre Dame), UNLESS Boise St loses.

I just don't get it. Yes, Boise St has a tougher schedule, but only slightly.
They both won the games they should win.
Below is a comparison (using computer rankings from Massey), going from highest rated to lowest rated (the one in Red was a LOSS).

1 ... 8
43 30
52 72
77 95
78 96
81 100
87 103
109 110
111 120
112 123
114 124
115 126
NR NR

So, really their schedules will not be that different.
Both playing a top 10 team, Army winning but Boise St losing.
Army's 2nd toughest opponent is ranked ahead of Boise St's.
Boise's St 3rd-7th opponents are all ranked ahead of Army's, BUT for both teams these should all be wins with them all ranked >75.
The rest look quite similar.

So, I argue that if both teams win out, Army (not Boise St) should get into the college playoff.

If they beat ND and Tulane for the conf championship, it should be really close. I don’t see them beating either

 

[JonathanW]

If they beat ND and Tulane for the conf championship, it should be really close. I don’t see them beating either

I don't even see it being close though.
Army beating top 10 ND compared to Boise St losing to top 5 Oregon (Army's favor)
Army beating top 30 Tulane compared to Boise St 2nd best win vs top 45 Wash St. (Army's favor)
Thus the ONLY way to try to justify Boise St would be by saying the bad teams they beat were slightly better than the bad teams Army beat. So what!!!! They were ALL bad teams and you both should have (& did) win them all.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

You should know this. Boise has a bigname player on their roster, Army does not.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Playoffs are a joke.

Boise gets a bye? Lmao. All sec teams have to play road games n first round?

Sec and big 10 need to get ruled changed asap. Top 4 best teams deserve a bye and playoffs should be the top 12 teams. F conference champs.

 

[VikingCat21]

Jeanty being a strong Heisman candidate certainly helps Boise in the court of public opinion. Army also plays that gimmicky triple option offense which probably doesn't help them in terms of perception. It doesn't really matter though because Army will probably lose to both ND and Tulane.

 

[TucsonCat]

I have not heard anybody say Army would knock out Boise State.
Army knocks out Notre Dame and maybe Big 12.

 

[Bereacat420]

I have not heard anybody say Army would knock out Boise State.
Army knocks out Notre Dame and maybe Big 12.

Big 12 can’t be knocked out

 

[TucsonCat]

Big 12 can’t be knocked out

They sure can. There is nothing about P5, P4, SEC, G5, whatever. Top 5 conference champions, whoever that is.

 

[rick64]

Rank the 12 best teams and seed them 1-12. Then fill in the bracket. So a conference champion of a weak conference can get a bye over a 2 loss SEC or B10 school??!!

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Rank the 12 best teams and seed them 1-12. Then fill in the bracket. So a conference champion of a weak conference can get a bye over a 2 loss SEC or B10 school??!!

Its incredibly dumb.

Hopefully this goes away soon when they expand it and can rework the rules.

Boise beats tomato cans and peewee teams and gets a bye. But they almost beat oregon...but they didn't. 0 good wins.

Committee is just seeding on overall record and that's embarrassing. You are telling me 1 loss Penn state should be ahead of all 3 2 loss sec teams based on quality wins?

 

[Eccain01]

They sure can. There is nothing about P5, P4, SEC, G5, whatever. Top 5 conference champions, whoever that is.

That’s not true the acc big 12 big ten and sec Champ automatically get in. So does the highest ranked G5 champion.

 

[LukaszObrzut]

I wish Army were to win out so that we could see how it plays.

Army plays Navy on 12/14 with the 1st round game scheduled for 12/20

 

[TucsonCat]

That’s not true the acc big 12 big ten and sec Champ automatically get in. So does the highest ranked G5 champion.

Again, there is nothing, nowhere, that says any specific conference gets automatic birds.

The new 12-team College Football Playoff field will include the five highest-ranked conference champions, which will receive automatic bids. The seven highest-ranked teams remaining will round out the 12-team format.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/...ootball-playoff-will-work-teams-schedule-bids

Who qualifies for the college football playoff?​

The five highest-ranked conference champions and the next seven highest-ranked teams will earn a spot in the 12-team bracket. There is no limit to how many teams from one conference can qualify. The rules also don't guarantee spots for certain conferences. The champions of the Big 12, SEC, ACC and Big Ten will almost certainly routinely qualify, though, along with the highest-ranked champion from the Mountain West, American Athletic Conference, Sun Belt, Mid-American Conference or Conference USA.

How does College Football Playoff work? Rules, dates, more

 

[JonathanW]

Its incredibly dumb.

Hopefully this goes away soon when they expand it and can rework the rules.

Boise beats tomato cans and peewee teams and gets a bye. But they almost beat oregon...but they didn't. 0 good wins.

Committee is just seeding on overall record and that's embarrassing. You are telling me 1 loss Penn state should be ahead of all 3 2 loss sec teams based on quality wins?

But it's not just on record. Army is undefeated, so if it was solely on record they would be there. Now I agree that since they haven't played anyone good yet, they should not be in "the 12".
But if they can pull off wins vs #8 Notre Dame, then a solid Navy team and a conference final vs a top 30 Tulane team, to me that would be enough to put them well ahead of Boise St who as you said have ZERO good wins (losing their only chance at one).

I think they look at SOS rather than individual games, which is a mistake. If you beat-up on teams in the 70-100 range compared to the 100-130 range, I don't think that matters, because in both cases for a top 20 team you should win all of those games. So, to me the only SOS consideration for a playoff contending team should be did you play any top 10, top 20, top 30 top 40 teams; beyond that they are all the same.

 

[bthaunert]

Again, there is nothing, nowhere, that says any specific conference gets automatic birds.

The new 12-team College Football Playoff field will include the five highest-ranked conference champions, which will receive automatic bids. The seven highest-ranked teams remaining will round out the 12-team format.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/...ootball-playoff-will-work-teams-schedule-bids

Who qualifies for the college football playoff?​

The five highest-ranked conference champions and the next seven highest-ranked teams will earn a spot in the 12-team bracket. There is no limit to how many teams from one conference can qualify. The rules also don't guarantee spots for certain conferences. The champions of the Big 12, SEC, ACC and Big Ten will almost certainly routinely qualify, though, along with the highest-ranked champion from the Mountain West, American Athletic Conference, Sun Belt, Mid-American Conference or Conference USA.

How does College Football Playoff work? Rules, dates, more

Yes...it's going to be interesting if the Big12 champion is leap frogged by the WAC and AAC champion and they are left out. If Army wins out (wins over #6 ND and #20 Tulane), it will be close against a BYU team that wins out (wins against #21 ASU and #16 Colorado). Not sure that will be enough to jump them. Might hurt Army that they play 1 less regular season game too.

What will be really weird is if Army slides in, then gets beat by Navy. That will cause all kinds of conversation.

 

[Bereacat420]

I wish Army were to win out so that we could see how it plays.

Army plays Navy on 12/14 with the 1st round game scheduled for 12/20

Does the AAC play a conf championship? With them in the AAC now it is weird that Army and Navy would play a week after conf championship week

 

[JonathanW]

Does the AAC play a conf championship? With them in the AAC now it is weird that Army and Navy would play a week after conf championship week

They do, that is the Tulane game

 

[bthaunert]

Does the AAC play a conf championship? With them in the AAC now it is weird that Army and Navy would play a week after conf championship week

I think you're going to see the date of the Army/Navy game change imo. This is the first year they are both in the AAC (Army was an independent). Now that they have the 12 team playoff and seeing that the AAC is a player in it, I won't be shocked if they have that game at the end of the regular season, prior to the conference championship game.

 

[Bereacat420]

They do, that is the Tulane game

I had thought so. That Army/Navy game needs moved to thanksgiving like most rivalry games

 

[The-Hack]

I think you're going to see the date of the Army/Navy game change imo. This is the first year they are both in the AAC (Army was an independent). Now that they have the 12 team playoff and seeing that the AAC is a player in it, I won't be shocked if they have that game at the end of the regular season, prior to the conference championship game.

The Army/Navy Game does not count in the conference standings, from a source I read.

That game ain’t changing for nothing, with it’s history and broader meaning.

Move the Army/Navy game?

Shave Santa’s Beard?

Adjust Babe Ruth’s swing?

Pull the mask off the Lone Ranger?

Some things just don’t happen.

 

[bthaunert]

The Army/Navy Game does not count in the conference standings, from a source I read.

That game ain’t changing for nothing, with it’s history and broader meaning.

Move the Army/Navy game?

Shave Santa’s Beard?

Adjust Babe Ruth’s swing?

Pull the mask off the Lone Ranger?

Some things just don’t happen.

You are correct that it doesn't count because the AAC championship game is before that. This is also the first time they have been in the same football conference. They both play 11 regular season games leading into the conference championship weekend. I would not be shocked if something changes....I know it would make some heads spin.

 

[EliteBlue]

Jeanty being a strong Heisman candidate certainly helps Boise in the court of public opinion. Army also plays that gimmicky triple option offense which probably doesn't help them in terms of perception. It doesn't really matter though because Army will probably lose to both ND and Tulane.

I get what you’re saying bc it’s not high flying, pass heavy, “modern football”……but the triple option isn’t gimmicky. It’s one of the most traditional offenses you can run. It’s only “gimmicky” in the sense it maximizes lower talent and allows smaller lines to do more with less and evens the playing field.

The air raid was considered a gimmick as well until it revolutionized all modern offenses. Scheme is scheme….rune the one that gives your personal and recruiting ability the best chance to win.

A gimmick would be the swinging gate offense or 2 QBs in shotgun off setting the center not knowing where it’ll be snapped. Trick play double pass heavy schemes where you aren’t just running hat for hat and straight up plays