CI Wrestling Thread #56

[AmericanDragon]

Wanted to actually take a page from one of the AEW fan reddits. There's a thread asking who's the best and worst ex-WWE signings.

Best - Moxley. Dean Ambrose could've been so much more in WWE, a Brian Pillman for this generation. But for whatever reason, Vince wanted the goofiness, so we got Dean the Clown. In AEW, he brought edge, shaved his dumb hair from his WWE days, bulked up, and got serious on the mic. Granted, issues are still there. The cheesy ECW/backyard shit, the constant blood, the goofy barbed wire, etc. But at the end of the day, Moxley>Ambrose and it's not close. Plus Renee followed and she's always been legit good at her various jobs.

Worst - if you guessed most AEW fans would choose Punk because he's become everything they hate and apparently AEW's continued slide is soley because of Mr. CM, you'd be mostly correct. I'm going with Miro though. The potential has always been there but I don't understand his time in AEW. Injuries, personal issues, marital problems, refusing to lose (?), and every time his former wife got involved, it deteriorated into some sort of weird cuck storyline. And now he's just not there with no explanation given. Brock Lesnar works more than gd Miro at this point.

Miro is injured, that's why he's not currently on TV. They thought he would be back by now but he hasn't been able to get cleared yet.

5 Best ex-WWE signings

• Moxley - ace of the company
• Swerve - has been one of the MVPs of the company over the last year, IMO
• Bryan Danielson - my all-time favorite
• FTR - If for nothing else than the trilogy of matches against the Briscoes makes this one of the five best
• Claudio - he has gradually become one of my favorites to watch. Man is just incredible in the ring. Put that man in the ring with a broom and I'll watch it.

Honorable Mentions: Toni Storm, Samoa Joe, Christian Cage, Sting

5 Worst ex-WWE signings

Actually I don't think I can even narrow this down to five, just so many that were either useless or a cancer to the company

• CM Punk - He was good for business initially, no doubt about that, and that's definitely not something anyone else on this worst of list can say. But the Gripe Bomb was textbook insubordination that never should have been tolerated nor appeased in any fashion whatsoever. And I'm a Punk fan. He was one of my favorites in ROH. He's the only thing that made late 2000s/early 2010s WWE somewhat tolerable to watch for a bit. And I still have his action figure sitting on my desk.
• Miro - Always either injured, refusing creative, and/or seemingly refusing to do any jobs. He's worthless if he's unwilling and/or incapable of working almost all the time.
• Buddy Matthews - Everything he is capable of doing is able to be fulfilled by someone more talented and/or more charismatic, so he adds nothing of value
• Andrade - Fought guys to try to get fired, should have just fired him if he wanted out that bad. What's he add that someone like RUSH can't do? Exactly, nothing.
• Keith Lee - Man just hasn't had it ever since he got COVID
• Malakai Black - just babbles a bunch of nonsense and every attempt at a spooky gimmick since Undertaker has been awful - either the gimmick itself is ****ing dumb, the wrestler can't wrestle for shit, or both
• Basically every woman they've signed from WWE with the exception of Toni Storm and Athena

Honorable mention - Jake Hager (not on TV enough to make the list lol)

Notable exception is Chris Jericho. His AEW career can be divided into two and make both lists if we're being honest. Vital for the credibility of the company in the early years. But now he is probably the worst thing about the AEW product every week.

Luckily it seems that he eventually learned a lesson from that slew of underwhelming to terrible signings of ex-WWE talent in 2021 and he has become extremely more selective now in who he signs from there.

 

[AmericanDragon]

I heard somewhere (maybe a podcast) that he could not come to terms with WWE to show up on night 2 in the main event so Taker did it

That has been debunked. Stone Cold was never in the plans for WM 40

 

[billCgmx]

Vince Russo is who you hire when you want to commit business suicide

I would hire posters from this thread before I hired Vince Russo for anything.

 

[AmericanDragon]

Oh and also my case for Punk as one of the worst - he won the AEW title twice, he defended the belt a combined one time, and that one time he defended and did so unsuccessfully.

The first time because his fragile body got injured the first Dynamite after winning it by jumping into the crowd

The second time because he got injured winning it and was then stripped of the title.

His injuries immediately or even during winning the belt screwed up major plans that effected a lot of others, and then the shit at All In screwed up more major plans.

As much stuff as he turned to gold over there, he equally turned as much stuff into shit. Sure you can fairly say it wasn’t all his fault, no denying it, but no one else in that company has ever been as injury prone AND that much of a behavioral problem as Punk was.

 

[AmericanDragon]

I would hire posters from this thread before I hired Vince Russo for anything.

I wouldn’t hire Russo for any job in any profession. I can’t trust someone who is they confident in the quality of their shitty work and lacking all self awareness of how shitty the results of their work is.

 

[Nightwish84]

Miro is injured, that's why he's not currently on TV. They thought he would be back by now but he hasn't been able to get cleared yet.

5 Best ex-WWE signings

• Moxley - ace of the company
• Swerve - has been one of the MVPs of the company over the last year, IMO
• Bryan Danielson - my all-time favorite
• FTR - If for nothing else than the trilogy of matches against the Briscoes makes this one of the five best
• Claudio - he has gradually become one of my favorites to watch. Man is just incredible in the ring. Put that man in the ring with a broom and I'll watch it.

Honorable Mentions: Toni Storm, Samoa Joe, Christian Cage, Sting

5 Worst ex-WWE signings

Actually I don't think I can even narrow this down to five, just so many that were either useless or a cancer to the company

• CM Punk - He was good for business initially, no doubt about that, and that's definitely not something anyone else on this worst of list can say. But the Gripe Bomb was textbook insubordination that never should have been tolerated nor appeased in any fashion whatsoever. And I'm a Punk fan. He was one of my favorites in ROH. He's the only thing that made late 2000s/early 2010s WWE somewhat tolerable to watch for a bit. And I still have his action figure sitting on my desk.
• Miro - Always either injured, refusing creative, and/or seemingly refusing to do any jobs. He's worthless if he's unwilling and/or incapable of working almost all the time.
• Buddy Matthews - Everything he is capable of doing is able to be fulfilled by someone more talented and/or more charismatic, so he adds nothing of value
• Andrade - Fought guys to try to get fired, should have just fired him if he wanted out that bad. What's he add that someone like RUSH can't do? Exactly, nothing.
• Keith Lee - Man just hasn't had it ever since he got COVID
• Malakai Black - just babbles a bunch of nonsense and every attempt at a spooky gimmick since Undertaker has been awful - either the gimmick itself is ****ing dumb, the wrestler can't wrestle for shit, or both
• Basically every woman they've signed from WWE with the exception of Toni Storm and Athena

Honorable mention - Jake Hager (not on TV enough to make the list lol)

Notable exception is Chris Jericho. His AEW career can be divided into two and make both lists if we're being honest. Vital for the credibility of the company in the early years. But now he is probably the worst thing about the AEW product every week.

Luckily it seems that he eventually learned a lesson from that slew of underwhelming to terrible signings of ex-WWE talent in 2021 and he has become extremely more selective now in who he signs from there.

Good lists. It's amazing what Swerve's become compared to what he once was. Hopefully he won't be a transitional champion but I think that's going to happen. If Danielson was much younger, he'd be anyone's first pick when starting a new company. Claudio has always been, and will always be great. There's just something missing there personality wise. He got chances in WWE but once he flubbed a line in an important promo, I literally said to myself, "welp, that's it for him." and it was.

On your worst list, can't really argue Punk. Someone on reddit had him both best and worst. Miro may be injured but he wasn't this bad in WWE. Wonder if they'd want to deal with him again. Dude is built like a brick house but finds every excuse to stay home. Buddy and Black I get. It's just a bad fit and they clearly hate their time in AEW. Buddy would've fit with The Judgment Day. He just needs a name change. Black has something but he needs to step away from the lights on, lights off shit. I don't care if he's into black metal or whatever the hell. He's not in Mayhem. We did get goth Julia Hart because of the HoB though.

Also I'm seeing more Ricky Starks to WWE talk lately. Guess his contract might be up soon. He's a Cody and Punk guy so I can't imagine how happy he'll be to get there. I like that dude even though he's small.

 

[K-mac18]

Totally forgot about Swerve, that was a big whiff on WWE’s part IMO.


According to PwInsider Eddie Kingston also tore his ACL in addition to a broken tibia.
Won’t be back until 2024 most likely.

 

[Wesley91581]

To me it’s the Hardy’s because well when you employ Jeff hardy you know what you’re getting and Matt is already back in tna.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Best:
Toni Storm - went from Charlotte fodder to possibly the most entertaining woman in wrestling right now

Swerve - I wasn't sold at first because he was a stable guy in NXT and I never watched it. He's gotten over on his own and is now world champion and has made a fan out of me.

Claudio - Best worker 6'5 or taller in the business. Makes up for lack of verbal skills with his wrestling ability. He's a utility guy who can have a great match with a big or small guy

FTR - Saved them from shaving each other's backs on WWE TV; excellent matches on Collision with White/Juice standout to me

Christian - He's long in the tooth, but nobody is a better on-screen asshole than Christian. Best heel in the company right now.

Worst:
Miro - Whole tenure has been a flop outside of his brief TNT title chase/run

Adam Cole - This one won't be popular, but the guy just can't stay healthy and isn't belivable physically to me as a top-top guy.

Ruby Soho - jobber in WWE. Jobber to the stars in AEW.

Big Bill - Wish version of Test with a stupid name. (He has potential to be a good big man, but again, Test)

Hardys - Had to be a fanboi nostalgia signing. Both of those guys are broken down and one of them has been battling addiction issues for almost 30 years. Putting them on TV in a wrestling role in the 2020s was a bad idea.

To piggyback off Dragon, I think a good case could be made for Punk and Jericho to be on both lists.

 

[Wesley91581]

Two years ago today, Sasha & Naomi walked out of WWE. Also, this incident caused one of the biggest Domino effects in pro wrestling history:

- Punk tweeting about workers' rights
- Hangman talking about workers' rights in his promo without clearing it with Punk
- Punk shooting on Hangman when he came back
- All Out Press Conference
- The brawl between The Elite & Punk
- Punk getting his own show, Collision
- Punk & Jack Perry backstage confrontation on Collision related to the use of real glass.
- Jack Perry mocking Punk by saying "Real Glass Go Cry Me a River."
- CM Punk beating Jack Perry backstage at ALL IN.
- Punk getting released from AEW
- CM Punk coming back to WWE after a DECADE.
-Sasha in AEW
-Naomi back in wwe

It's kinda INSANE

 

[UKWildcatT]

Two years ago today, Sasha & Naomi walked out of WWE. Also, this incident caused one of the biggest Domino effects in pro wrestling history:

- Punk tweeting about workers' rights
- Hangman talking about workers' rights in his promo without clearing it with Punk
- Punk shooting on Hangman when he came back
- All Out Press Conference
- The brawl between The Elite & Punk
- Punk getting his own show, Collision
- Punk & Jack Perry backstage confrontation on Collision related to the use of real glass.
- Jack Perry mocking Punk by saying "Real Glass Go Cry Me a River."
- CM Punk beating Jack Perry backstage at ALL IN.
- Punk getting released from AEW
- CM Punk coming back to WWE after a DECADE.
-Sasha in AEW
-Naomi back in wwe

It's kinda INSANE

I think it’s fitting Naomi is back in the wwe while Sasha is in wrestling purgatory, lol.

 

[K-mac18]

Seems like a good idea, one week between shows was too close. Plus it's a Saturday now.

 

[Nightwish84]

Adam Cole is an interesting one. He has been and could be solid in the future. The injury derailed him but even before that, once arriving in AEW he got what I call vegan skinny. He looked gaunt and pasty. The New Day-like vignettes happened with (cornball) MJF and then AEW tried to pass off a skinny, five foot nothing, a hundred pound nothing hobbled guy as something as intimidating as "the devil." Buddy, that was never going to pass the smell test. So yeah, he's certainly been disappointing in AEW but I'm hoping he'll be a lot better once he returns.

 

[Creed Bratton]

So Lenny Lane may have missed a great opportunity to wrestle as Chris Generico always mirroring Jericho's many alter ego's.

 

[Nightwish84]

Russo now kicking his own ass for not doing a Chris Generico storyline with Lane in 2000 once Y2J became a WWF superstar. Can't miss idea, bro.

 

[Wesley91581]

Seems like a good idea, one week between shows was too close. Plus it's a Saturday now.

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I think 2 weeks is still too close unless all in is special/dream matches (sort of like wwe does with Saudi shows with no storyline) and all out is storyline related matches.

 

[Wesley91581]

 

[Nightwish84]

Wasn't mentioned yet but I'm enjoying the story progression with Breakker. He's clearly not in the tourney because they don't want him dropping a loss this early but in storyline, it's because Pierce doesn't think he's ready. One GM (Aldis) has control of his show. The other doesn't. Now instead of facing jobbers with no progression, we're seeing Breakker's personality and aggression take over. This likely leads to a trade with SD and Bron being seen as a young, hungry, uncontrollable force. It's early Brock without having Heyman at his side telling him to stop and leave. And it's lowkey brillant.

 

[Wesley91581]

#WWE is said to be looking to try and get site fees from cities not only for PLEs, but also for all Raw and SmackDown shows at some point in the future:

"Right now, they’re just getting them for the pay-per-view shows, and not even necessarily every pay-per-view show in the United States. Although now that the B-shows have been pretty much moved overseas and they're getting site fees for those shows, and the A-shows are gonna mostly be stadium shows - maybe Survivor Series will probably still be an arena show - but the idea is they’re working on getting site fees.

"They already do for Royal Rumble, SummerSlam and WrestleMania, and they’re working on getting them for Money in the Bank and Survivor Series, and now the next step is to get communities to pay them to bring Raw and SmackDown tapings in. Hey, more power to them if they can get it.

"I don’t know how many people as far as tourists flock to a city on a Monday or Friday when Raw and SmackDown are in town. They do come in for pay-per-views. But if they can get it… just to come to your city, they’re gonna want your city to pay.

"And it's a great business to be in, it takes away all the risk of running shows if you’re getting paid to come in, that’s for sure. They’re giving you the building for free, and you’re gonna get paid to come in, and you’re gonna get other benefits from the city - promotional and everything like that, they’ll help you promote your event because it’s incumbent on them for the event to be a success because the whole idea of spending that money is to bring people into the city and come to restaurants and stay at hotels and all that.

"We’ll see if they can pull that off. If they do, that’s transformative."

(Dave Meltzer on WOR)

 

[Wesley91581]

 

[K-mac18]

I know Endeavor is about making as much money as possible but I can't see folks paying just to get Raw and Smackdown, but, I could be wrong.
AEW is getting paid to run in Dallas for the summer so maybe that is what may happen in the future.

There's so many things listed for Dynamite I bet there will be an overrun.

 

[Nightwish84]

The WWE thing is a tall task. That may have worked in the Attitude Era but every current Raw and SD ain't exactly an unforgettable Taylor Swift experience. The AEW Dallas regency is probably a great move for the company money wise but show wise those crowds will probably be awful. Imagine a seemingly cold product posting up in one city for several shows. You're also killing that town as AEW's fanbase isn't large enough to have a great showing over and over and over in one location.

Swerve vs Wayne makes sense bc of the Christian aspect but man, he's still been booked so damn bad as a new champion. And Danielson vs Satnam? Where in the blue hell did that come from? A legend's last year and he's wasting time with a giant who might be slightly better than a phone booth. I've grown to question all of Danielson's decisions at this point.

 

[UKWildcatT]

I know Endeavor is about making as much money as possible but I can't see folks paying just to get Raw and Smackdown, but, I could be wrong.
AEW is getting paid to run in Dallas for the summer so maybe that is what may happen in the future.

There's so many things listed for Dynamite I bet there will be an overrun.

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I think a lot of things just lined up right for the wwe, but I don’t see them carrying momentum to be commanding rights for just having Smackdown and Raw in the city. It’s already getting dull again

 

[MegaBlue05]

Goodness that card.

I feel like they’re trying to cram the show to where it feels almost too chaotic a la WCW 2000.

 

[MegaBlue05]

And Danielson vs Satnam? Where in the blue hell did that come from? A legend's last year and he's wasting time with a giant who might be slightly better than a phone booth. I've grown to question all of Danielson's decisions at this point.

I love Danielson as a performer, but I don’t think he mentally ever left the indies. The majority of his final year match decisions seem indy-brained to me.

Won’t draw or do big business, but the work rate crowd usually is pleased to watch an ice cold “dream” match of two little dudes with the challenger being someone from another promotion that all non-hardcores have no idea who it is.

This is why buddy boss is bad. If I had a talent like Danielson who wanted to hang it up in a year, he’d be facing my most known top guys with some kind of championship opportunity so I could use his prestige/notoriety to draw my company money. He definitely wouldn’t be wrestling unknown C-listers midway through my b show.

 

[martinsm30]

I love Danielson as a performer, but I don’t think he mentally ever left the indies. The majority of his final year match decisions seem indy-brained to me.

Won’t draw or do big business, but the work rate crowd usually is pleased to watch an ice cold “dream” match of two little dudes with the challenger being someone from another promotion that all non-hardcores have no idea who it is.

This is why buddy boss is bad. If I had a talent like Danielson who wanted to hang it up in a year, he’d be facing my most known top guys with some kind of championship opportunity so I could use his prestige/noteriery to draw my company money. He definitely wouldn’t be wrestling unknown C-listers midway through my b show.

When your retiring you pretty much do you what you want especially if you don't need the money. Kahn has not been learning from his mistakes. He books like he is in his backyard playing with his action figures.

 

[K-mac18]

If I remember correctly from Collision the Elite hired Satnam to take Danielson out before Double Or Nothing. I'm genuinely curious to see if BD can pull a decent match out of him.

 

[billCgmx]

So Lenny Lane may have missed a great opportunity to wrestle as Chris Generico always mirroring Jericho's many alter ego's.

We did get this.

 

[Nightwish84]

I love Danielson as a performer, but I don’t think he mentally ever left the indies. The majority of his final year match decisions seem indy-brained to me.

Won’t draw or do big business, but the work rate crowd usually is pleased to watch an ice cold “dream” match of two little dudes with the challenger being someone from another promotion that all non-hardcores have no idea who it is.

This is why buddy boss is bad. If I had a talent like Danielson who wanted to hang it up in a year, he’d be facing my most known top guys with some kind of championship opportunity so I could use his prestige/notoriety to draw my company money. He definitely wouldn’t be wrestling unknown C-listers midway through my b show.

He's famously selfless which is odd because he clearly wanted the title in WWE. Guess he figures he'll let others in AEW fight for titles and he can just be an anchor for the company. I get the mindset but looking back, having Danielson on your roster for a few years and not giving him the world title is a misstep. Hell, let MJF take it from him in an epic match. Also while I haven't seen it, enough people have said Danielson vs Ospreay is one of the best matches ever so I tend to believe that's the case...and it's already happened. I would've made it Danielson's last match and center a PPV around it like TK did with Sting's retirement. Not a best of three, one match and it's his final match, and you let Ospreay go over. Ain't my company though.

 

[Wesley91581]

History repeats itself

 

[Wesley91581]

 

[WildcatFan1982]

 

[Nightwish84]

The disconnect between the fans and the outside fan world on AEW has never been wider imo. Immediate reaction I saw was fans gleefully laughing about the chunky blood slop, the flamethrower, TK dropping Darby off, etc. TK's fanbase wants their wrestling an overbooked, dumb mess but if you mention bad WCW vibes or Russo-like booking to them, they don't wanna listen. Then they wonder why the Wednesday rating isn't good. It's like they embrace the stupidity but get mad if you say "hey, that's stupid."

One positive is the Collision rating was great but that's probably the more serious show.

 

[K-mac18]

TKO announced this morning they are merging the UFC and WWE Live Events divisions into one group.

WWE also announced Minneapolis will host Summerslam 2026 and will be two days, August 1st and 2nd.
Did they announce a site for 2025 yet or did I miss it.

There were some segments I liked on Dynamite and a couple that weren't very good.

 

[MegaBlue05]

I feel like sharks are jumped every week with AEW.

The dumping of the fake blood screamed New Blood, and the New Blood thing was a cheap imitation of the Brood’s bloodbaths.

We’re a sports-based product. Also, flamethrowers.

I did like a few of the matches last night, but the gaga was really cheesy.

 

[GeraldV]

Ray Fenix looked to be on that AJ Styles gas last night.

 

[Wesley91581]

I can’t believe this was a real quote…

Matt Jackson says he and Nick Jackson let Jack Perry "get it all out of his system" during their first meeting together following All In 2023, days before forming an alliance at #AEW Dynasty:

"We kept an eye on him the entire time he was gone and helped him navigate the situation–a familiar one that we had also gone through.

We also talked him down a few times. We gave him advice on how to succeed in Japan. It felt like he was our little brother. We saw him for the first time since All In, a couple days prior to the pay-per-view.

We met him in our private jet, and talked endlessly the entire flight. We let him get it all out of his system, but assured him that this would be a fresh start. I was so thrilled to hear and see the groundswell for him when he appeared for the first time. It was like a rebirth for him."

(Sports Illustrated)

 

[WeWant9]

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Lol. I watched this clip with no context of last night, and at first it looked like Black was shitting out an insane amount of blood.

 

[K-mac18]

HHH just announced that the winners of King and Queen of the Ring will challenge the champion for their brand at Summerslam.

 

[K-mac18]

Dynamite- 713,000 and a .24
Up from last week