CAL - MARCH

[Thats An Awful Idea]

Uh? Duke made the final four in 2022. UNC has 3 titles since 2009. Kansas has two titles since 2008 with 4 final fours.

Well that Duke F4 changes everything! So 1 F4 is 9 years? With all that talent?

UNC does have 3, but they also missed the tournament a couple of times in that span as well, and also got caught with one of the largest cheating scandals in sports. And they did miss the tournament just last year, correct? Almost missed it the year they went on their last F4 run as well.

KU went 14 years between titles.

I just think it's amusing some act like these schools have been perennial contenders every year.

 

[CRZ4UK]

They have great players but Cal and Barnes both suck in March. Both teams most likely will leave the tourney early. And until they prove us wrong they will wear that distinction.

To me that’s because of defense. Cal teaches NBA hands off and up defense. Barnes teaches grab,hold and hack. They can’t call them all defense. Both coaches will run into a tournament official that will kill their style. Tennessee will hear beep, when the reach out and put their hands on people. Kentucky WONT hear beep.. and will run into officials that allow tough physical defense and holding. Both get bounced in the end because of their style of DEFENSE.

 

[JC CATS]

We have another Gillespie in Lex right now.

😂 You obviously wasn't around for BCG We weren't ranked 15 or getting 4 seeds. Unless this is hyperbole

 

[Louis_Skunt]

Well I guess we just completely disagree. There’s nothing that says Kentucky cannot and will not remain the greatest program ever. If we go stagnant and keep a Boeheim type of coach, maybe.

Indiana kept Bob Knight too long and made a terrible follow up hire. All things UK needs to avoid and we’ll be fine.

Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc aren’t having any trouble keeping up. Tennessee is a 1 seed. Kentucky has a coach problem, not a program problem. We’ll be fine once we get a new regime. The difference in Kentucky and the other programs is this is where great coaches want to coach. They’ll always be lining up.

A Kansas BIG12 championship player ring (basketball) is going for around 1500 bucks. A Kentucky toilet bowl player ring (football) goes for more than that. That’s the difference in UK and Kansas, and that’s why coaches want to try their hand here over anywhere. But alas. We aren’t hiring at the moment🤔

You have to look at it from another perspective. UT is a #1 seed presently, that doesn't mean a thing. They've never even made a final four, and 1 elite 8 in history. Barnes has been around just as long as Cal and has 1 measly final four with Durant...thats it. Barnes wouldve been fired already with those results.

Kansas, you got me there. Self is a great coach, but hows he doing this year?

UNC, i think he inevitably fails once Bacot is gone. And didnt we beat them earlier on a neutral floor? No way they made the final four.

Duke, interesting situation thats trending down. Coach K left that kid a pipeline for great recruits, but its drying up. Reminds me of Tubby getting the throne after Pitino. Its also apparent he doesn't get the whistle that Coach K did.

As for coaches wanting to be here; this isn't the dream job. Look at this board crushing Cal every week, coaches dont want that. The fan base is like the Yankees...you better not have a bad loss or you cant leave the house for a week.

 

[sambowieshin]

Nobody's doing great right now, except Bill Self and he's i think 5th just in that conference.

The game has changed, the days of dominating are going to be tough for anyone because kids can transfer the next year and play right away. Recruiting isn't as important.

Everyone likes Oats, but what has he done? Nothing. He lives and dies by the 3 more than any coach EVERY year, not just one year. Hard to win multiple games in the tourney relying on the 3 like he does.

As for up and comers, look at Indiana, they never bounced back. They still cant find a coach. UL is the same. So is Michigan and UCLA. I think losing sucks but i dont know who's better at this point. Throwing another Gillespie in Lex is very possible.

Cal looks pretty good right now compared to most other coaches. Oats and Mussleboy are not the answer.

 

[mebeblue2]

For me Calipari doesn’t win to the UK standard anymore. I wish he’d retire at the end of the year regardless. Kentucky isn’t Syracuse and although I wish he’d be the old Calipari again that’s probably not happening. There’s too many young hungry coaches out there who I’d rather bet on than a pushing 70 rich Calipari.

I don’t even see why this March is scrutinized. We aren’t a top 5 program under Calipari today, yesterday or last November. The UK coach must be a guy who sustains our records and he doesn’t do that. So to me it’s irrelevant what he does from the point on. Unless he’s going to sustain his numbers to our standard, I don’t really care. So I guess as far as I’m concerned you’re right but probably not for the reasons you’d think.

i am curious i see people say that alot
answer me this "what is the UK standard"?

 

[MegaBlue05]

i am curious i see people say that alot
answer me this "what is the UK standard"?

As am I.

Anyone who understands our history understands we have never, ever been a super dominant team for years on end. We have spurts of dominance and patches of respectability/mediocrity.

1948-58, 75-78, 92-98, 10-17 were the dominant periods. 14 FF, 8 national titles. Total of 29 seasons.

1959-74, 79-91, 99-09, 18-present were the leaner periods. 2 FF, 0 championships. Total of 45 seasons.

 

[Jeff2Reed]

i am curious i see people say that alot
answer me this "what is the UK standard"?

To me you have to maintain our prestige. Tournaments every year, no losing seasons, and win the SEC on a rather constant basis. Maintain the all time wins lead, and go to final fours within our usual time frame. We need to maintain our position in the majority of NCAA categories.

Im not sure I understand the question, Kentucky is the greatest program of all time and we’re the best throughout each decade, or one of them. What Calipari is doing is none of that at this time.

I prefer Calipari to win and go down as our modern great but that’s not what’s happening. I will never chose a coach who doesn’t win over the program, doesn’t matter how much I like him or how much I once loved him. We’ve got a program that needs to win.

 

[yoshukai]

I gotta take up for Cal, no Ky fan could be happy with the way things have gone for the past several years. I'd say most Coaches would already have been terminated after the results of the past 3 seasons. So to me this is it, But regardless of whats happened over the past few years Cal put Ky basketball back were it belonged and I'd like to see the guy do that again before he retires. That would be good for Ky Basketball and the next coach.

That would be great. But the difference in me and you is the belief that the current version of Cal has the ability to do that .

 

[yoshukai]

As am I.

Anyone who understands our history understands we have never, ever been a super dominant team for years on end. We have spurts of dominance and patches of respectability/mediocrity.

1948-58, 75-78, 92-98, 10-17 were the dominant periods. 14 FF, 8 national titles. Total of 29 seasons.

1959-74, 79-91, 99-09, 18-present were the leaner periods. 2 FF, 0 championships. Total of 45 seasons.

How’d the coaches end up after those “leaner times “ .

 

[MegaBlue05]

How’d the coaches end up after those “leaner times “ .

Rupp was forced to retire after making one FF in his last 14 seasons
Hall retired before he was pushed out
Sutton resigned after crashing the program into a mountain
Tubby - Similar to Hall but took another job
Gillispie was fired and very drunk
Cal is in the twilight of his tenure

If historical trends hold true, the next hire is on the Tubby/Hall line. The one after that will be a drunk.

 

[yoshukai]

Rupp was forced to retire after making one FF in his last 14 seasons
Hall retired before he was pushed out
Sutton resigned after crashing the program into a mountain
Tubby - Similar to Hall but took another job
Gillispie was fired and very drunk
Cal is in the twilight of his tenure

If historical trends hold true, the next hire is on the Tubby/Hall line. The one after that will be a drunk.

Sounds to me like we need to make a move then . But I realize we can’t.

 

[KyCPA]

Well that Duke F4 changes everything! So 1 F4 is 9 years? With all that talent?

UNC does have 3, but they also missed the tournament a couple of times in that span as well, and also got caught with one of the largest cheating scandals in sports. And they did miss the tournament just last year, correct? Almost missed it the year they went on their last F4 run as well.

KU went 14 years between titles.

I just think it's amusing some act like these schools have been perennial contenders every year.

Here is the problem. Cal excuses all of the losses in the regular season by saying his teams are built for March. We have had too many regular season losses this year for the talent we have. So now almost every fan is looking for that to justified by deep runs in March. If that doesn't materialize, the heat from the fanbase will be incredible and will be justified by Cals own reasoning. There is no defense for him this year

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Read I believe on Sports Arena? the 25 best coaches this year. It has Cal 5th. Most of the guys mentioned as replacements was way down the line. Self was #1, Few #2, Izzo #3 and Drew #4. Seems like Drew should be lower. Two guys I think is good Painter was somewhere around 15th and McDermott was somewhere around 20th.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

Unfortunately, you're right. But he could also win the title and some on here would want him fired. It's irreversible for some at this point. Tribalism.

Whoever that Jeff guy that I haven't seen said he absolutely wanted him gone even if he won a N.C.

How would that work? Would you knock the ladder out from under him while he's cutting down the nets and tell him to hit the road, jack?

 

[Rockfly78]

Whoever that Jeff guy that I haven't seen said he absolutely wanted him gone even if he won a N.C.

How would that work? Would you knock the ladder out from under him while he's cutting down the nets and tell him to hit the road, jack?

Yeah I remember him. But there have been others too. I saw someone say it just this week. I can’t wrap my head around that. Titles are precious. Scrapping the coach the day after wining one is bonkers

 

[UKfanINcoach]

It's really simple. A good X's and O's coach will beat a more talented team 9 out of 10 times. A good X's and O's coach will make changes throughout the game. Cal is not and never has been good with X's and O's. That's not even debatable. Up until Reed made the game winner he had only one end-of-game successful play out of 20 something. If you really understand basketball you should realize it very hard to win 6 games in a row in the tourney and not be a good coach. Cals had the talent but this is why when he leaves he will only have 1 title.

 

[MegaBlue05]

It's really simple. A good X's and O's coach will beat a more talented team 9 out of 10 times. A good X's and O's coach will make changes throughout the game. Cal is not and never has been good with X's and O's. That's not even debatable. Up until Reed made the game winner he had only one end-of-game successful play out of 20 something. If you really understand basketball you should realize it very hard to win 6 games in a row in the tourney and not be a good coach. Cals had the talent but this is why when he leaves he will only have 1 title.

Can you name some of these good xs and os coaches? I want to go see if Cal has lost 90 percent of his games against them since, in your words, “A good Xs and Os coach will beat a more talented team 9 out of 10 times.”

Furthermore, we once had a man widely lauded as an excellent Xs and Os coach in Tubby Smith who was beaten often by … more talented teams. That used to be our complaint. Not enough talent.

You need both to be successful.

 

[entropy13]

Lol, Duke hasn't been to a F4 since we have. UNC just missed the tournament last year. KU went 14 years between titles.

That's An Awful Post.

 

[Thats An Awful Idea]

That's An Awful Post.

Did KU not go 14 years between titles and did UNC not miss the tournament last year?

 

[entropy13]

Did KU not go 14 years between titles and did UNC not miss the tournament last year?

See below. RR already pointed out the absurdity of your argument.

Uh? Duke made the final four in 2022. UNC has 3 titles since 2009. Kansas has two titles since 2008 with 4 final fours.

 

[UKfanINcoach]

Can you name some of these good xs and os coaches? I want to go see if Cal has lost 90 percent of his games against them since, in your words, “A good Xs and Os coach will beat a more talented team 9 out of 10 times.”

Furthermore, we once had a man widely lauded as an excellent Xs and Os coach in Tubby Smith who was beaten often by … more talented teams. That used to be our complaint. Not enough talent.

You need both to be successful.

Knight, Pitino, Krzyewski, Williams. What you don't understand is these coaches would adapt there game plan both offensively and defensively based on their team and based on their opponent. When a coach refuses to play zone, allows opponents to have "career games" against them (you seen plenty of those throughout the years) or always seems to get beat and the end of games these are glaring weakness in coaching.

Yes you got to have talent but not always the most talent to win a title. Coach K didn't even make the FF with Zions team but how many titles did he win. Don't forget he won in 2015 (anything special about that year?). Notice a team blow it that year in the FF? Easy to see what happened there wasn't it?

Thanks for backing my post! You said "you need both to be successful". I guess that why we haven't been to a FF in 9 years or won a sec tourney in 5. Seems we've had a lot of talent so what's missing?

 

[podgejeff_]

For me Calipari doesn’t win to the UK standard anymore. I wish he’d retire at the end of the year regardless. Kentucky isn’t Syracuse and although I wish he’d be the old Calipari again that’s probably not happening. There’s too many young hungry coaches out there who I’d rather bet on than a pushing 70 rich Calipari.

I don’t even see why this March is scrutinized. We aren’t a top 5 program under Calipari today, yesterday or last November. The UK coach must be a guy who sustains our records and he doesn’t do that. So to me it’s irrelevant what he does from the point on. Unless he’s going to sustain his numbers to our standard, I don’t really care. So I guess as far as I’m concerned you’re right but probably not for the reasons you’d think.

So who is the coach you'd replace Cal with?

 

[Thats An Awful Idea]

See below. RR already pointed out the absurdity of your argument.

The only one he pointed out was Duke. So, Duke, with more talent than anyone has made 1 F4 in the last 8 - 9 years. That's not impressive.

UNC just missed the tournament last year. Does the fact they won a title in 2009 and 2017 change that somehow? Hell, they also got caught in the biggest cheating scandal in college sports during that time.

Did KU not go 14 years between titles?

Again, using your own words, what was absurd about it?

 

[cal=8]

That would be great. But the difference in me and you is the belief that the current version of Cal has the ability to do that .

Well we're getting ready to find out!

 

[yoshukai]

Well we're getting ready to find out!

Well I’m REALLY hoping you are the one that’s right !

 

[yoshukai]

So who is the coach you'd replace Cal with?

You’re talking about the current version of Cal right? The version with zero sec titles and one ncaa tournament win over the last three years ? Cause it would be a pretty long list of coaches that could do better than that at KENTUCKY. Now this year hasn’t completely played out yet so maybe he can regain some of his old juice. We’ll see.

 

[entropy13]

The only one he pointed out was Duke. So, Duke, with more talent than anyone has made 1 F4 in the last 8 - 9 years. That's not impressive.

UNC just missed the tournament last year. Does the fact they won a title in 2009 and 2017 change that somehow? Hell, they also got caught in the biggest cheating scandal in college sports during that time.

Did KU not go 14 years between titles?

Again, using your own words, what was absurd about it?

LOL, if you can't see the difference in your examples versus UK's recent history, then you haven't thought about this much.

UNC was the runner-up in 2016 and 2022 in addition to their two titles. Big whoop if they missed the tournament once in the recent timeframe. I'm sure it was upsetting to them, but their post-season success is obviously much better than ours recently.

You say Duke had more talent than *anyone*, I say that's a rebuttable presumption. Even taking that at face value, who is responsible for recruiting UK's talent? Yep, Cal is. Rarely has a coach done less with more than Cal has. I struggle to think of one. What did the #1 classes in 2020 and 2021 accomplish in the post-season? Jack and Squat, respectively. We've also gotten our choice of transfers.

In the meantime, we've missed the tournament twice since our last title in 2012, including our worst season ever. Lest anyone forget, the man shat the bed in the 2015 final four with the greatest assemblage of college basketball talent in history. The man also soiled himself again in 2018, losing to a garbage, mediocre 9-seed K-State team at a point when our bracket had completely opened up with the #1 seed losing. Lost to an Auburn team in 2019 that was missing a key player.

No reasonable fan expects a title every X amount of years. But is it really too much for ask for a blue-blood program, the all-time winningest in NCAA history, with the second most championships, and whose championships span across multiple eras, to make deep tournament runs more often than not, and therefore position itself for a possible title?

Edited to add: Rooting for the team and for Cal to make a Final Four and hopefully win a shiny new NCAA championship trophy.

 

[kyboy1998]

I always love reading the “coaches would line up for this job” post.

Rupp left and we made a safe hire. Then followed with a drunk who destroyed us.

Pitino left and we made a safe hire. Then followed with a drunk that destroyed us.

You may not realize this but coaches are somewhat smart men, at least most are.

They also know you can possibly do worse than what you want someone run out of town for.

The great ones would rather follow a dumpster fire. Hall and Tubby should be commended for what they followed and did.

We’d end up with several coaches getting raises for showing interest in the job and an up and comer of Cal left.

Then we’d hate on that guy for 10 years before going to the bar and grabbing the next guy.

 

[Thats An Awful Idea]

LOL, if you can't see the difference in your examples versus UK's recent history, then you haven't thought about this much.

UNC was the runner-up in 2016 and 2022 in addition to their two titles. Big whoop if they missed the tournament once in the recent timeframe. I'm sure it was upsetting to them, but their post-season success is obviously much better than ours recently.

You say Duke had more talent than *anyone*, I say that's a rebuttable presumption. Even taking that at face value, who is responsible for recruiting UK's talent? Yep, Cal is. Rarely has a coach done less with more than Cal has. I struggle to think of one. What did the #1 classes in 2020 and 2021 accomplish in the post-season? Jack and Squat, respectively. We've also gotten our choice of transfers.

In the meantime, we've missed the tournament twice since our last title in 2012, including our worst season ever. Lest anyone forget, the man shat the bed in the 2015 final four with the greatest assemblage of college basketball talent in history. The man also soiled himself again in 2018, losing to a garbage, mediocre 9-seed K-State team at a point when our bracket had completely opened up with the #1 seed losing. Lost to an Auburn team in 2019 that was missing a key player.

No reasonable fan expects a title every X amount of years. But is it really too much for ask for a blue-blood program, the all-time winningest in NCAA history, with the second most championships, and whose championships span across multiple eras, to make deep tournament runs more often than not, and therefore position itself for a possible title?

Edited to add: Rooting for the team and for Cal to make a Final Four and hopefully win a shiny new NCAA championship trophy.

The difference is they aren't UK and Cal. Evidently 1 is held to different standards than the others by some.

We were in the F4 the year before 2016. UNC barely squeaked into the tournament the year they went on their last F4 run, then missed it the next year when they were preseason #1. Lol. They also got caught cheating just a feylw years ago.

No one being reasonable would argue Duke hasn't had hands down the most talent in the last 8-9 years. We didn't have good classes in 20 or 21. Hell, in 21 we didn't have a good class at all.

We were a garbage team in 2018. Why were we anymore guaranteed to beat Kstate than them us?

So now you're argument is Cal shit the bed in 2015, but then you claim making a F4 or runner-up is a strong showing by Duke, UNC or KU. Do you not see that double standard? We lost to a pretty solid team in Wisc.

But we do make deep tournament runs more often than not. Even under Cal. We have 17 F4s in our history. 4 of them are from Cal. They span back to 1942. So in 81 years, we have been there 17 times. In the 68 years prior to cal, it was 13. We aren't historically the perennial contender some of you seem to beleive.

 

[podgejeff_]

You’re talking about the current version of Cal right? The version with zero sec titles and one ncaa tournament win over the last three years ? Cause it would be a pretty long list of coaches that could do better than that at KENTUCKY. Now this year hasn’t completely played out yet so maybe he can regain some of his old juice. We’ll see.

Yep, the current version. All the things you mentioned.

Who, specifically, would you want?

 

[yoshukai]

Yep, the current version. All the things you mentioned.

Who, specifically, would you want?

Throw a dart , lol .No matter who I named you would find a blemish ruling them out because you don’t really want a discussion.

 

[podgejeff_]

Throw a dart , lol .No matter who I named you would find a blemish ruling them out because you don’t really want a discussion.

You have no idea what I want. You just assumed I disagree because I asked you a question.

I won't even argue your picks. I just want to hear who people want. Nobody ever seems to be willing to answer that.

 

[know1]

You have no idea what I want. You just assumed I disagree because I asked you a question.

I won't even argue your picks. I just want to hear who people want. Nobody ever seems to be willing to answer that.

I've said a bunch of times that all I want is a hungry, driven coach who puts the UK program's success as the #1 priority of his job and is motivated to do ALL the little things it takes to make that happen.

I honestly don't care what that person's name is and I really won't care that much what their record is. I just want our program respected and I want something that I can believe in and that gets me pumped to pull for them - and I'm not saying I don't root for the current team or past teams because I most definitely do.

It's just hard to get overly excited for a team lead by someone who clearly isn't putting UK first and doing EVERYTHING he can to win basketball games.

The win/loss and tourney record of the version of Cal we have had for 5-7 years now is EASILY replicated by many, many coaches out there given the resources of Kentucky. And it's been going on for so long now. 5-7 years isn't insignificant. And 10 years without a 1 seed or Final Four. ANYBODY can do that.

 

[yoshukai]

You have no idea what I want. You just assumed I disagree because I asked you a question.

I won't even argue your picks. I just want to hear who people want. Nobody ever seems to be willing to answer that.

I‘d take any of the usual suspects. Skeptical about whether Hurley would take the job . I really like Lloyd. I’m not as high on Oats as some but I’d be happy with the hire . Pearl would kill it here but I don’t believe he would be a legit candidate , if Drew was the choice I’d be fine with it . Thinking outside the box , (age is a factor) if Cal were to leave in the next year or two , Could Samson give us 5 good years giving someone like Golden time to get more experience and prove himself ?

Again, if we’re talking about the results we’ve been getting the last few years , there are many more that would be an upgrade. But I realize Cals not going anywhere unless he wants to. He’s probably going to Boeheim the hell out us .

 

[STL_Cat]

It doesn't matter. He could make the final four and many on here will still want him gone. It’s irreversible for many at this point.

How about we make it and find out, then.

 

[TOMCATS1990]

CAL wins BIG in March and a lot of people will ease up on his criticism. He has to take this team deep in March if not early April. Winning cures lots of ill’s.