You are still walking around my statement, how many left that went to other schools and became stars after they left? The answer is none.
Bruiser Flint hired by UK as assistant
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You are still walking around my statement, how many left that went to other schools and became stars after they left? The answer is none.
Kyle was pretty good for Gonzaga I think lol
But yeah we don't lose many to schools and they go on to do something of note.
But yeah we don't lose many to schools and they go on to do something of note.
To start with, we need to use the entire quote and review what he was actually saying. The last part of the quote continues to get left out, which is where he says he prefers experienced talent.
Second, I'm not sure why everybody gives so much credit to such an insignificant item, experience. Experience in and of it self offers no benefit. However, players that stay longer develop more and become more talented. Lamb, Jones and Miller weren't big contributors to the title team simply because they were older, the were huge to the title team because they had skill sets and athleticism that were well utilized on that team. Millers contribution wasnt being a 4 year player, it was being a 6-7 do-everything 40+% 3 pt shooter that made the contribution. It wasnt being a sophomore that made Lamb valuable, it was being a 44% 3pt shooter and back-up point guard. Which, he did equally as well on a less talented team as a freshman.
The key isn't experience, its having the right players to fill all the positions. There are different ways to get there, but at the end of the day, that is what matters.
Exactly. You aren't winning titles with 4 years of mediocrity from certain players.
I’m not trying to “walk around” your statement at all. The point you made was we were better off with them leaving because they didn’t become stars. That’s the point I don’t necessarily agree with. I don’t think a guy has to become a 1st Team All-American or a lottery pick elsewhere to prove he could’ve helped here. Charles Matthews here could’ve been exactly what Charles Matthews was at Michigan and would’ve been a huge asset. I don’t think guys like Jemerl Baker or Johnny Juzang have to become All-Americans at UCLA or Arizona to prove they could’ve helped here.
So I’m not trying to walk around your statement. I just don’t necessarily agree with the point you were trying to make.
To be clear, I'm simply saying roster management is like a complex differential equation, and it cant be solved by 3rd grade math (we need experience). At the end of the day, somebody who has no idea how to solve the equation will watch somebody do it once and see that on the surface there is elementary math used, but it's far from simple addition and subtraction.
Wait, wait, wait, wait… YOU are saying that experience is insignificant? Wow, that might be the most incorrect statement I have ever read on here and we're talking about a board that has @kl40504 on it. Wow.
Well, we're just going to have to disagree there. We fet it, the player still has to have athleticism and measurables, but that's not what we were talking about.
You don't think Charles Matthews was a star at Michigan? Damn man, what kind of standards are you using? He was pretty damn awesome in a Michigan uniform.
The guy was the main reason his team even made the final four. He was West Region MOP.
You didn’t say that.
Also, he had 17 points and 5 rebounds in the Final Four win. He had a rough championship game. But yeah he sure flamed out alright.
And just exactly what mythological trait do you think experience brings?? If experience was such a big factor in all this, then how did sophomore harrison twins melt down at the end of the game against Wisconsin, when they shined at the end against that very same team as Freshmen?? How is it, that those same 2 freshmen outdueled upperclassmen for 4 straight games to reach the championship game?? And they weren't just beating upperclassmen, it was upperclassmen that played in the previous year's final four. That alone should tell you that experience, ie being older, means little. When a senior stinks up a final game people just feel bad for them and say he had a bad game, which is likely true. But when a freshman makes a mistake, we never chalk it up to a bad game or just a missed shot, it is always tabbed a lack of experience. When the truth is, you are just as likely to screw up as a senior as you are as a freshman. For every player for which you can point to in order to try to prove experience matters, I can point to a player who spent 4 years being the exact same player, and no more helped his team as a senior than they did as a freshman.
It's TRUE that a lot of players get better with age, but that is a factor of working on their game, not just being older. And I'll leave you with this thought, would you rather have AD as a freshman, or Nick Richards as a senior?? Would you rather have Ulis as a freshman, or Hagans as a Junior?? You and I both know which player you would take in each scenario, the better player, not necessarily the most experienced player. And just so you know, all 4 players in those examples were 5 star players. AD was obviously ranked much higher than Richard's, which should make the decision close, but I bet it wasnt. But Hagans was ranked much higher than Ulis, which should make that a landslide decision, and it likely was, just wasnt the result one would think.
I guess I consider players who are stars get drafted by the NBA. He didn't, but was a very good player. The original statement made by me was that no one who left Kentucky for another school has turned out to be a star player, just a few good ones.
First of all read my original post again, never did I say we were better off with them leaving, only that some players think they are better off then in the present situation that they are in. So actually your point is inaccurate on what I said.
My original post: "I don't think its rocket science but it is more today that kids who feel they are better then the situation that they are in, will not stick around because the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I cannot think of anyone who left that became a big star somewhere else so their leaving is actually better for team chemistry in my opinion."
Again, he tore his ACL in predraft workouts. He had a very good chance of being drafted before that.
Was he Anthony Davis? John Wall? Jamal Murray? Obviously not. But there are certainly different levels of college stardom as far as I’m concerned. Semantics, I guess.
This statement shows how little you understand about this game. We have had plenty of star players get shut down in tournament games. That doesn’t take away from what those players did up to that point. They’re not machines.
"And just exactly what mythological trait do you think experience brings?? If experience was such a big factor in all this, then how did sophomore harrison twins melt down at the end of the game against Wisconsin, when they shined at the end against that very same team as Freshmen??"
Experience is the hobgoblin of ....
Perhaps the better approach to understanding Mathews' situation is to look at the UK rosters after he left.
Was he going to start? No. Play some? Maybe.
I suspect Mathews made a good decision for himself.
Experience is the hobgoblin of ....
Perhaps the better approach to understanding Mathews' situation is to look at the UK rosters after he left.
Was he going to start? No. Play some? Maybe.
I suspect Mathews made a good decision for himself.
So, you’re going to use what happened at the end of one game to make your point? It’s still wrong. UK 2015 was a younger team than Wisconsin. Wisconsin's guys learned their lesson from the year before, they didn't panic, they did what veterans do. Our sophomores crumbled, which further makes my point. Sophomores aren't what you would call veterans.
Also, who's better:
-freshman N Richards, or Junior N Richards?
-Freshman PJ, or Sophomore PJ?
-Freshman T Jones or Sophomore T Jones?
-Freshman Quickly or Sophomore Quickly?
This is a no brainer and it carries over in life. Are you a better driver right now, or were you better the first year you got your license.
So, by your opinion, you’re saying there would be no difference between freshman Anthony Davis and Senior Anthony Davis. If AD stayed at UK for 4 years, you’re opinion is that senior AD wouldn’t be any better than freshman AD? I want to make sure we are clear on that. To me, experience is one of the top 3 most important things you need when building a roster.
Look at UVA, Villanova, UNC (and pretty much every team that has won an NCAA title). They’re all veteran teams. When the players on those teams were freshmen, they couldn't even crack the starting rotation for their perspective programs.
Our 2013/14 team. They were supposed to go 40-0 right? Yeah, they sucked all year long, but then they killed it in the tournament. Why? Experience. They grew up throughout the season and came together. But if that team stayed together for 3 more years, they would be far better at the end of that 4th year than they were the first. I don’t see how you can argue differently.
I can't believe I have to explain this.
Lets do this. You either have to have talented kids with experience, or you have to have top 5 rated freshmen. The results bare that out.
Keep in mind, I'm not comparing Anthony Davis or John Wall to Cassius Winston, of course I would take Davis or Wall. But when you compare just about any lower rated 5* to senior Cassius Winston, I'm taking Winston. You would too.
Well now that's something different. This is college basketball, not the NBA.
That’s a weird qualification. Some players are stars in college, but don't have the size or athleticism to make it to the NBA. Matthews is one of them.
He started for a team that played in the national title game man.
The systems at UK and Michigan are just different. He was a perfect fit for Michigan's back cutting style of offense. He just wasn't athletic enough to go 1 on 4 and finish at the rim in the offense Cal runs at UK.
Joe Crawford, Ramel Bradley, Epps, Wayne Turner and Gerald Fitch just to name a few more.
Yeah, Wayne Turner, that guy was apparently mediocre since he didn't get drafted.
Some people look at things through homer glasses, guys like STL_Cat and I are viewing this objectively. Some people don't know how to take those blue glasses off. It’s tough to reason with homers.
I’m not taking personal shots or making emotional arguments the way those guys do. I just make pints and counterpoints and hope others will do the same. I feel like I have a pretty objective viewpoint, most of the time.
Honestly I’m just talking with @Poetax here. I learned a while back debating those two guys is an effort in futility.
Honestly I’m just talking with @Poetax here. I learned a while back debating those two guys is an effort in futility.
I had my timeline a little mixed. What would have been Matthews next year at UK wasn’t the worst team under Cal, that was the Fox/Monk/Bam year. What would have been his junior year is the year we were pretty bad (by our standards). We definitely could have used a junior Charles Matthews in 2017-2018.
so, a.) who was his replacement and b.) is there a reason they both couldn’t have been on the roster? In other words, would his “replacement” not have come if Matthews had stayed?
In what would have been Matthews junior year, he led Michigan to the final game while we had one of our worst teams under Cal. So I’m trying to see the side that says “it worked out well for UK” that he left. Help me here.
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