Bill Simmons doesn't think De'Aaron Fox is a top 35 player, or even a top 8 player at his position.

[UK90]

Do you understand the difference? This thread and the takes in it were from when we just started the current NBA season..

Did you not see the post I was responding to? It was not something you posted before the season, instead it was something you posted TODAY. Less than two hours ago you stated Paul “is still” better than Fox. Those aren’t your words from back then, instead they’re your words today. And you didn’t say “was”, you said “is still.”

That’s an asinine position to still cling to after the season Fox just had.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Chris Paul can still be a better PG overall than Fox was/is.. while simultaneously agreeing that he's well past his prime. No, I would not pick CP3 over Fox as of right now if I need to win the title next year and beyond.

Also it was never quite clear if Bill Simmons meant his ranking as "going forward" or who he thinks is simply a better talent (Unless I missed something). I don't think anyone wants CP3 at 38 going forward. But back in November if you're simply ranking guys in tiers and looking at their body of work and their prime and what they could give for the upcoming season? Yeah, it made sense to put CP3 and Kyrie ahead of Fox.

And I still am not quite sure before the season, if Fox was better than CP3 outright, even if he is now. Piggy backing off the other thread, CP3 had a higher ADP than Fox going into this season. Meaning, generally speaking, people thought more highly of CP3's abilities. It wasn't some wild take to put CP3 ahead of Fox back in November (which I'm sure that's who BS had ahead of Fox in his 7 pgs.)

 

[bluefaithful]

Fox and Monk were amazing! Biggest Draft bust for the Lakers ever selecting Ball. Crazy

 

[shaudyshaud]

I’ll give Saul his props he called it . Before the season I still don’t think it was crazy to say Fox isn’t top 5 but I have to give you props for calling it and standing on it . You became right .

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Fox and Monk were amazing! Biggest Draft bust for the Lakers ever selecting Ball. Crazy

Just an unbelievable bonehead pick. Many of us said so back then. Welp, we were correct. Fox is and was then a much better player than Lonzo Ball. Especially in the NBA.

 

[Titpwhami2014]

Fox and Monk were amazing! Biggest Draft bust for the Lakers ever selecting Ball. Crazy

If only the Lakers had more film going into that 2017 draft. Like, if their teams had met twice during the college season, including once in the NCAA Tournament and all the chips were on the table, and how Ball and Fox fared against each other…oh wait!

 

[BigCat241]

You had mediocre foresight.

It's okay, though.

Fox is great

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I’ll give Saul his props he called it . Before the season I still don’t think it was crazy to say Fox isn’t top 5 but I have to give you props for calling it and standing on it . You became right .

I think he just happened to be right. I imagine he felt this same way the year before this one.. or the one before that. There really was no indication that Fox was going to stay healthy and really improve his shooting percentages, or get the Kings to the playoffs.

I do think Fox is now in your top5.. or somewhere in there. And while he won't get MIP, I think he should be considered for most improved player. He really showed out this year.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I think he just happened to be right. I imagine he felt this same way the year before this one.. or the one before that. There really was no indication that Fox was going to stay healthy and really improve his shooting percentages, or get the Kings to the playoffs.

I do think Fox is now in your top5.. or somewhere in there. And while he won't get MIP, I think he should be considered for most improved player. He really showed out this year.

You imagine wrong, friend. The indications were that he's improved every year and was only 24 years old at the start of the season. In addition, he was finally surrounded by legitimate pieces that could compete for a playoff spot. Surely you saw all that as well, right?

Come on now, @LineSkiCat14 . Give me my props. I ate crow when I had that crappy take years ago when I said the 2019 Duke team could take the '96 Wildcats to 6 games in a best of 7 series. Remember how you raked me over hot coals and remember how I ate my crow? You even created a thread just to barbeque me, and I took it like a champ.

How 'bout you just give me props and move on with some credibility still in tact.

 

[Jamal Mercer]

I didn’t read this whole thread to see if it had been brought up, but Simmons has openly admitted he was wrong a few times and now praises Fox any chance he gets.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I've been looking for Cade Cunningham, Haliburton, and Kyrie in the playoffs? Some of you had those guys ahead of Fox at the start of the season.

Why can't I find any of them playing on TV right now?

 

[BigCat241]

I've been looking for Cade Cunningham, Haliburton, and Kyrie in the playoffs? Some of you had those guys ahead of Fox at the start of the season.

Why can't I find any of them playing on TV right now?

Because fox was the better player this season and had more talent around him?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

You imagine wrong, friend. The indications were that he's improved every year and was only 24 years old at the start of the season. In addition, he was finally surrounded by legitimate pieces that could compete for a playoff spot. Surely you saw all that as well, right?

Come on now, @LineSkiCat14 . Give me my props. I ate crow when I had that crappy take years ago when I said the 2019 Duke team could take the '96 Wildcats to 6 games in a best of 7 series. Remember how you raked me over hot coals and remember how I ate my crow? You even created a thread just to barbeque me, and I took it like a champ.

How 'bout you just give me props and move on with some credibility still in tact.

Really the only indicator was adding Sabonis, and he's also a guy people didn't think would be THIS good for SAC or help get them into the playoffs. But no, Fox did NOT improve every year. He actually regressed a little going into last year, and thats why a lot of people questioned trading Hali instead of him. How did you *know* Fox was going to blow up this year, when you aren't even aware how his previous seasons went?

I don't recall ever arguing with you about the 2019 Duke team as it compares to the 1996 team. That's never something I'd argue about because I was 9 when Kentucky won in 1996 and I really don't have strong opinions on that era of basketball, simply because I don't really remember it. And I also wouldn't rake you over the coals for something we could never prove one way or the other. That's not really my style of debate because neither can really prove it.. You're mistaking me for someone else.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I've been looking for Cade Cunningham, Haliburton, and Kyrie in the playoffs? Some of you had those guys ahead of Fox at the start of the season.

Why can't I find any of them playing on TV right now?

Cade got injured about a month into the season and was out for the year.

.. but I'm sure you knew that.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I didn’t read this whole thread to see if it had been brought up, but Simmons has openly admitted he was wrong a few times and now praises Fox any chance he gets.

View embedded media

The funny thing is.. Simmons really wasn't wrong at the time he wrote this. And I think he's doing the right thing by acknowledging how Fox has proven him wrong this season.

I don't think anyone here still believes Fox is a sub8/sub35 type guy anymore. He's been superb, and if he can stay healthy, he'll be one of the top PGs in the league for sure. Especially with some of the older guys being past their prime (or getting close to it).

 

[UK90]

He's been superb, and if he can stay healthy, he'll be one of the top PGs in the league for sure.

See, you’re still getting your verb tenses mixed up. Before with Paul you used present tense when you should’ve used past. And now with Fox you’re using a future conditional tense when you should be using present.

He very clearly already is “one of the leagues PGs” …there’s no “if” or “will be” about it.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

See, you’re still getting your tenses mixed up. Before you used present tense when you should’ve used past. And now you’re using future tense when you should be using present.

He very clearly and indisputably already is one of the leagues top points …there’s no “if” or “will be” about it.

There's nothing wrong with that statement. I still think theres some injury concerns for him because he has spent 3 seasons in a row only playing 55ish games.. But I guess it can apply to anyone, as injuries can hit any player at any time.

I think you still get the jist of what I'm saying. This isn't hard to figure out. Back in November, it wasn't wild to think Fox wasn't a top player or a top PG. He showed out big time this year, and now he is a top player. Was it always there? Did he need more time? Did he need some better talent around him? Who knows.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Really the only indicator was adding Sabonis, and he's also a guy people didn't think would be THIS good for SAC or help get them into the playoffs. But no, Fox did NOT improve every year. He actually regressed a little going into last year, and thats why a lot of people questioned trading Hali instead of him. How did you *know* Fox was going to blow up this year, when you aren't even aware how his previous seasons went?

I don't recall ever arguing with you about the 2019 Duke team as it compares to the 1996 team. That's never something I'd argue about because I was 9 when Kentucky won in 1996 and I really don't have strong opinions on that era of basketball, simply because I don't really remember it. And I also wouldn't rake you over the coals for something we could never prove one way or the other. That's not really my style of debate because neither can really prove it.. You're mistaking me for someone else.

Well, regardless of what my projection was based on, I was right. You just can't tip your hat, can you?



But you hold that ground. Maybe it's not worth sharing a laugh about in a world filled with so much nonsense.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Well, regardless of what my projection was based on, I was right. You just can't tip your hat, can you?



But you hold that ground. Maybe it's not worth sharing a laugh about in a world filled with so much nonsense.

I guess? I'll take your word for it.

So at the time of this thread creation.. you thought Fox was going to improve his shooting to this level, and take his team to one of the top seeds in the West? Because I can tell you this, not many people would have agreed back in November. I certainly didn't see this happening.

 

[Fox2monk]

I’ll give Saul his props he called it . Before the season I still don’t think it was crazy to say Fox isn’t top 5 but I have to give you props for calling it and standing on it . You became right .

I agreed way back then, Fox balls out every year. It’s easy to see and now that he has help it’s really evident. He’s been one of the most under appreciated super stars in the NBA IMO.

 

[ChaiseyD]

Looks like the Boston goofball is desperate for attention these days. Simmons is one of those public figures whose presence as a popular public figure continues to baffle my mind. I've never been impressed by him and I'm not sure how he's continued to be successful with his bizarre opinions and infantile rants.

We he just stamped on his forehead hes a IDIOT! I believe that may be one of the dumbest takes of the yr!

 

[king of cali]

We he just stamped on his forehead hes a IDIOT! I believe that may be one of the dumbest takes of the yr!

In late October/early November when Simmons made the statement it wasn’t a dumb take because Fox hadn’t proven a thing. He was a “good stats/bad team” guy. Give him credit for going up a couple of levels this season and elevating his team in the process.

 

[SpamburgerHamburger]

In late October/early November when Simmons made the statement it wasn’t a dumb take because Fox hadn’t proven a thing. He was a “good stats/bad team” guy. Give him credit for going up a couple of levels this season and elevating his team in the process.

How dare you show any reason or understanding on this message board. Acknowledging that something was 6 months ago and has now changed. Simmons has praised Fox a ton since then as he's become more consistent.

 

[Creed Bratton]

Just an unbelievable bonehead pick. Many of us said so back then. Welp, we were correct. Fox is and was then a much better player than Lonzo Ball. Especially in the NBA.

Everyone needs a good hype man and the Ball Boyz have the best apparently. 🤣

 

[crawfords corner]

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Everyone needs a good hype man and the Ball Boyz have the best apparently. 🤣

I think Magic was enamored with taking the “hometown kid”, so to speak. It burnt him. Bigly.

 

[king of cali]

I think Magic was enamored with taking the “hometown kid”, so to speak. It burnt him. Bigly.

Did it though? The goal of every front office is to win the title, and the Ball pick along with others bled to Davis, which led to a title. They’ll take that trade off every day of the week, regardless of what Ball and Fox have become.

Although it is interesting to look at the Lakers roster in 2017-18 and think what they could have become had they stayed together. You have a couple of All Stars and a bunch of bona fide players on that team.

 

[the stat man]

That’s why he is a writer and not a coach

Yea he’s just a dumb ass if he thinks that

 

[the stat man]

I think Magic was enamored with taking the “hometown kid”, so to speak. It burnt him. Bigly.

Oh did it ever burn him

 

[the stat man]

Kyrie is a joke. Sure he's talented but when is the last time he lived up to expectations? Never?! Overrated

Exactly he has never for any length of time be the great player he could be . Most likely he never will, kind of like Ben Simmons and maybe even that fat boy down in New Orleans !!