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Bill Simmons doesn't think De'Aaron Fox is a top 35 player, or even a top 8 player at his position.

Son_Of_Saul

Son_Of_Saul

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Looks like the Boston goofball is desperate for attention these days. Simmons is one of those public figures whose presence as a popular public figure continues to baffle my mind. I've never been impressed by him and I'm not sure how he's continued to be successful with his bizarre opinions and infantile rants.

 
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I haven't heard Bill Simmons name in a long time.

back in the late 90's he was must read

then he had a falling out with ESPN and I guess it was a slow decline after that.
 
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I don't know if he's wrong here, unfortunately..

Luca, Steph, Ja Morant.. are in your top3.. you still have CP3 and Kyrie.. and then you got some of the young guys in the mix, like Trae Young, Haliburton, SGA, Cade.

There's no way De'Aaron is anything higher than 6th, right off the bat, because I still have to give the nod to CP3 (when healthy) and Kyrie (when taking his meds).. and then it's where you want to put him in that 3rd group. I don't feel very confident putting him higher than those guys.
 
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TankedCat said:
I haven't heard Bill Simmons name in a long time.

back in the late 90's he was must read

then he had a falling out with ESPN and I guess it was a slow decline after that.
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He hasn't had a slow decline since leaving ESPN. In fact I think he's hit his stride now more than ever. His podcast is great, he even has some other really great content him and his team puts out (The Rewatchables is my favorite podcast out there right now and has been for a few years).

I don't know about his opinion on Fox here, but Bill Simmons knows NBA basketball as good or better than just about any other media personality out there. He's plugged in to it all. He knows the game.
 
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LineSkiCat14 said:
I don't know if he's wrong here, unfortunately..

Luca, Steph, Ja Morant.. are in your top3.. you still have CP3 and Kyrie.. and then you got some of the young guys in the mix, like Trae Young, Haliburton, SGA, Cade.

There's no way De'Aaron is anything higher than 6th, right off the bat, because I still have to give the nod to CP3 (when healthy) and Kyrie (when taking his meds).. and then it's where you want to put him in that 3rd group. I don't feel very confident putting him higher than those guys.
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Really, he’s not wrong. Judging just by talent, sure, Fox is one of the upper echelon guys. Simmons bases his criteria off of what you could potentially contribute to a title team, and he just doesn’t see something with Fox that goes beyond physical capabilities.

This is the most talented team that Sacramento has had since Fox has been there, and they are off to a 2-5 start despite a lot of pundits picking them as one of the most improved teams in the league. Still plenty of time to turn it around. We’ll see what happens.
 
LineSkiCat14 said:
I don't know if he's wrong here, unfortunately..

Luca, Steph, Ja Morant.. are in your top3.. you still have CP3 and Kyrie.. and then you got some of the young guys in the mix, like Trae Young, Haliburton, SGA, Cade.

There's no way De'Aaron is anything higher than 6th, right off the bat, because I still have to give the nod to CP3 (when healthy) and Kyrie (when taking his meds).. and then it's where you want to put him in that 3rd group. I don't feel very confident putting him higher than those guys.
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Fox is top 8 he’s just stuck in a losing situation. If he was on a winning or exciting team he would easily be talked among the elite.
 
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LineSkiCat14 said:
I don't know if he's wrong here, unfortunately..

Luca, Steph, Ja Morant.. are in your top3.. you still have CP3 and Kyrie.. and then you got some of the young guys in the mix, like Trae Young, Haliburton, SGA, Cade.

There's no way De'Aaron is anything higher than 6th, right off the bat, because I still have to give the nod to CP3 (when healthy) and Kyrie (when taking his meds).. and then it's where you want to put him in that 3rd group. I don't feel very confident putting him higher than those guys.
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Get Cade and Haliburton off that list.. they don’t even come close, yet. Hali’s numbers are amazing because he’s a has the entire team to himself. Cade has a longgggg way to go. Even Lamelo ranks way above Cade. Same with Garland. Trae can go on hot streaks and plays flashy, but go look at his percentages, and look at everything per minute, not per game. Fox averaged an absurdly low 31 mins per game last year. Can’t stand him, but Kyrie is absolutely on the list, when he plays. He’s well above Ja as well. CP3 has fallen off the rails the last few years too. He has great games, sure, but being surrounded by Cam, Crowder, booker, and Ayton have helped pad his assists.

People greatly undervalue how much your surrounding personnel and staff make a difference. Put Fox in Ja’s position with the Griz’s style of play, and he thrives. Have him replace Lamelo and his stats become absurd, but the team still sucks. Put him on the magic or pistons and his numbers still go way up. Put him on Boston and his numbers drop drastically. Look at brogdon. His numbers last year in games he played were great. Now he’s barely playing 20 mins a game.
You don’t hear or see much about Fox because he’s with one of the worst run franchises in history. But he’s absolutely a top 8, probably top 6 PG with a level playing field
 
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StormCruzzer said:
Get Cade and Haliburton off that list.. they don’t even come close, yet. Hali’s numbers are amazing because he’s a has the entire team to himself. Cade has a longgggg way to go. Even Lamelo ranks way above Cade. Same with Garland. Trae can go on hot streaks and plays flashy, but go look at his percentages, and look at everything per minute, not per game. Fox averaged an absurdly low 31 mins per game last year. Can’t stand him, but Kyrie is absolutely on the list, when he plays. He’s well above Ja as well. CP3 has fallen off the rails the last few years too. He has great games, sure, but being surrounded by Cam, Crowder, booker, and Ayton have helped pad his assists.

People greatly undervalue how much your surrounding personnel and staff make a difference. Put Fox in Ja’s position with the Griz’s style of play, and he thrives. Have him replace Lamelo and his stats become absurd, but the team still sucks. Put him on the magic or pistons and his numbers still go way up. Put him on Boston and his numbers drop drastically. Look at brogdon. His numbers last year in games he played were great. Now he’s barely playing 20 mins a game.
You don’t hear or see much about Fox because he’s with one of the worst run franchises in history. But he’s absolutely a top 8, probably top 6 PG with a level playing field
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Haliburton is putting up a 22/9 sophomore season so far on 45% 3pt shooting. He might not have proven enough to put himself past Fox yet, but I think it's more a question of "when" and not "if". A lot of the younger PGs are in the midst of passing Fox, and while yes, playing on Sacramento is a HUGE detriment.. we can't just ASSUME Fox is putting up better percentages and splits elsewhere. Unfortunately, all we have to go by is his time with the Kings.

Still, Bill Simmons was a bit closer to being "correct" on this than people think. And I also believe, when he's talking about the future of a team like he is above, he's insinuating that some of these younger and unproven guys might be better longterm options than Fox. Because I think I'd rather Have Hali and Lamelo right now, and I might even pick Cade for that matter, too.

One thing that can really turn around for Fox, is if he keeps up this blazing hot shooting start.. he is crushing all of his career shooting averages to start, and that was the biggest knock on him.
 
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LineSkiCat14 said:
I don't know if he's wrong here, unfortunately..

Luca, Steph, Ja Morant.. are in your top3.. you still have CP3 and Kyrie.. and then you got some of the young guys in the mix, like Trae Young, Haliburton, SGA, Cade.

There's no way De'Aaron is anything higher than 6th, right off the bat, because I still have to give the nod to CP3 (when healthy) and Kyrie (when taking his meds).. and then it's where you want to put him in that 3rd group. I don't feel very confident putting him higher than those guys.
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You left out Damian Lillard and Jrue Holliday.
 
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UK90 said:
You left out Damian Lillard and Jrue Holliday.
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Oh jeez totally forgot about Dame. Yes, he's past him.

Jrue. Hm. I'd probably put them around the same level. Or at least, I wouldn't feel very strong about putting one above the other. I see Fox kind of being the better option this year and beyond.. but man, Jrue has stood the test of time. 13-14 years in the league now.
 
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DCFSeattle didn't think Bill Simmons knows his ass from a hole in the ground.
 
Son_Of_Saul said:
Looks like the Boston goofball is desperate for attention these days. Simmons is one of those public figures whose presence as a popular public figure continues to baffle my mind. I've never been impressed by him and I'm not sure how he's continued to be successful with his bizarre opinions and infantile rants.

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Who?
 
He likely isn't top 8 now, but his post also isn't about who is top 8 now. It says ever during his career

The 7 below are for sure better
  1. James Harden
  2. Ja Morant
  3. Trae Young
  4. Luka Doncic
  5. Tyrese Haliburton
  6. Damian Lillard
  7. Stephen Curry
Now the question is can you find at least one point guard from the below list that is better than Fox. I think most people reasonable NBA viewers would be able to do that.
  1. Tyrese Maxey
  2. Darius Garland
  3. Dejounte Murray
  4. CJ McCollum
  5. Cade Cunningham
  6. SGA
  7. Jrue Holiday
  8. Tyler Herro
  9. Kyrie Irving (if he doesn't slip up by saying Heil Hitler and getting banned from the league
Four of the people in the better now list are going to be around as long or longer than Fox will - Ja, Trae, Luka, and Haliburton. I dou8bt Fox will ever surpass them four.

There are quite a few young players in the bottom list who will be as well, and of course more coming into the league every year. Will he ever be top 8? We shall see.
 
STL_Cat said:
He hasn't had a slow decline since leaving ESPN. In fact I think he's hit his stride now more than ever. His podcast is great, he even has some other really great content him and his team puts out (The Rewatchables is my favorite podcast out there right now and has been for a few years).

I don't know about his opinion on Fox here, but Bill Simmons knows NBA basketball as good or better than just about any other media personality out there. He's plugged in to it all. He knows the game.
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I LOVE Bill Simmons. He's a very refreshing sports guy who can look past numbers and regurgitating stats. Been following his stuff since Page 2. The Bill Simmons Mailbag was pure gold, too. Holy shit I never laughed so hard at sports print.
 
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LineSkiCat14 said:
I LOVE Bill Simmons. He's a very freshing sports guy who can look past numbers and regurgitating stats. Been following his stuff since Page 2. The Bill Simmons Mailbag was pure gold, too. Holy shit I never laughed so hard at sports print.
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If you like movies, and you like Bill Simmons, I highly recommend The Rewatchables podcast. Hilarious and awesome.
 
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STL_Cat said:
If you like movies, and you like Bill Simmons, I highly recommend The Rewatchables podcast. Hilarious and awesome.
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I'll have to check this out. I keep having to remind myself to visit Grantland The Ringer website more often. THAT'S the type of sports articles I enjoy reading.
 
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LineSkiCat14 said:
I'll have to check this out. I keep having to remind myself to visit Grantland The Ringer website more often. THAT'S the type of sports articles I enjoy reading.
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Him and his team are great! You’ll thank me for the Rewatchables rec.
 
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STL_Cat said:
Him and his team are great! You’ll thank me for the Rewatchables rec.
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Bruh.. listening to it now lol, as they talk about the movie "The Edge" with Hopkins and Baldwin.. it's very good so far, and I'm not much of a podcast guy.
 
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Hoskins91 said:
Is this controversial? Take the time to go through the rosters. Don’t think it’s crazy to come up with 8 other guys where it is at least an argument. That Sac team has talent on it. At some point if you are legit, it should actually result in some success.
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A timely post on your end.

 
BigCat241 said:
Yeah to me Fox is more of a top 12 guy then a top 8 guy so Simmons really isnt wrong here.
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Not top 8 at his position? That's the argument Simmons is making. I don't think anyone alive would put Fox in the NBA's top 10, but he's certainly top 35.
 
Top35 isn't really what people are arguing though.. I'd have to think about that. This is more so that Fox isn't NECESSARILY a top8 PG.
 
LineSkiCat14 said:
Bruh.. listening to it now lol, as they talk about the movie "The Edge" with Hopkins and Baldwin.. it's very good so far, and I'm not much of a podcast guy.
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Yeah that’s their most recent one, I wasnt real big on The Edge so that pod wasn’t my favorite but they’re still entertaining either way. Pick some of your favorite movies and listen to them wrap on it, you’ll be hooked. They’ve done Heat 3 times, lol
 
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LineSkiCat14 said:
Top35 isn't really what people are arguing though.. I'd have to think about that. This is more so that Fox isn't NECESSARILY a top8 PG.
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But Fox not being top 35 is what Simmons is arguing. Hence, at least half of the purpose of the thread. That part is at least a bad take from Simmons.
 
Son_Of_Saul said:
But Fox not being top 35 is what Simmons is arguing. Hence, at least half of the purpose of the thread. That part is at least a bad take from Simmons.
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Well, what most people are arguing the top8 part.

I'd have to look more into the top35. I'd like to think he is..
 
LineSkiCat14 said:
Well, what most people are arguing the top8 part.

I'd have to look more into the top35. I'd like to think he is..
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Fox has the 7th best PER for point guards, and 28th among all NBA players.

He's also only averaging about 30 minutes/game while scoring over 26 points/game. He's shooting 56% from the field this year.

If there's 35 better players in the world, the NBA is stronger than it's ever been, which I'm also not buying.
 
Son_Of_Saul said:
Fox has the 7th best PER for point guards, and 28th among all NBA players.

He's also only averaging about 30 minutes/game while scoring over 26 points/game. He's shooting 56% from the field this year.

If there's 35 better players in the world, the NBA is stronger than it's ever been, which I'm also not buying.
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Well, yes, this year he's off to a fantastic start.. but I'm not ready to assume this is the Fox that we have going forward. Fox has been a pretty sub-par shooter for his entire career.

Your numbers show that he's pretty much right around the 30 mark.. so Simmons asking "is he a top35 player?" Isn't some outlandish take. Is Simmons maybe too bearish on him? Yeah probably.. but he's not giving hot takes here.
 
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LineSkiCat14 said:
I don't know if he's wrong here, unfortunately..

Luca, Steph, Ja Morant.. are in your top3.. you still have CP3 and Kyrie.. and then you got some of the young guys in the mix, like Trae Young, Haliburton, SGA, Cade.

There's no way De'Aaron is anything higher than 6th, right off the bat, because I still have to give the nod to CP3 (when healthy) and Kyrie (when taking his meds).. and then it's where you want to put him in that 3rd group. I don't feel very confident putting him higher than those guys.
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Kyrie is a joke. Sure he's talented but when is the last time he lived up to expectations? Never?! Overrated
 
cats#1again said:
Kyrie is a joke. Sure he's talented but when is the last time he lived up to expectations? Never?! Overrated
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That's not a bad argument. Availability is the best ability, right?

But Kyrie, when healthy, is on a different level than not only Fox, but almost any other point guard. He has some of the best handles in HISTORY, and he's a true 3-level scorer.

I hate saying this, but Kyrie is the real deal and one of the best PGs over the last decade. It's too bad he's such a headcase with a mediocre work ethic.
 
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wildcatsboston1984 said:
He likely isn't top 8 now, but his post also isn't about who is top 8 now. It says ever during his career

The 7 below are for sure better
  1. James Harden
  2. Ja Morant
  3. Trae Young
  4. Luka Doncic
  5. Tyrese Haliburton
  6. Damian Lillard
  7. Stephen Curry
Now the question is can you find at least one point guard from the below list that is better than Fox. I think most people reasonable NBA viewers would be able to do that.
  1. Tyrese Maxey
  2. Darius Garland
  3. Dejounte Murray
  4. CJ McCollum
  5. Cade Cunningham
  6. SGA
  7. Jrue Holiday
  8. Tyler Herro
  9. Kyrie Irving (if he doesn't slip up by saying Heil Hitler and getting banned from the league
Four of the people in the better now list are going to be around as long or longer than Fox will - Ja, Trae, Luka, and Haliburton. I dou8bt Fox will ever surpass them four.

There are quite a few young players in the bottom list who will be as well, and of course more coming into the league every year. Will he ever be top 8? We shall see.
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You can tell from #1 that you don’t watch the NBA.
 
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