This is why we haven’t been to a final 4 in over 5 years.
Bates gets future cast to memphis
- Thread starter RunninRichie
- Start date
Is this a known fact or just speculation on some peoples part? I am not talking about some kind of "insider info" but actual quotes that Cal didn't want Kofi because he felt he would get Duren because everything I have read nobody seems to know what he will do.
Sadly, typical for some people on here. They aren't happy unless they think the ship is sinking. It's much easier to complain than it is to compliment.
It's much easier not to play their game. They'll respond with, "Everyone who is anyone knew..." or "You would have to be the worst basketball fan not to know..."
Sure. Kofi or duren would absolutely be better. Agree with you there. My argument is in June before Kofi or duren were available people liked our team and considered it complete. And now because Kofi and duren aren't here the team and Oscar specifically sucks.
Right, but this is the problem with this type of roster management. If you don't hit a home run at all 5 positions, you have a hole or two that will rear its ugly head at the wrong time and we have seen that very thing time and time again.
If you are going to play with fire like Cal does every year, you better have some really good contingency plans in place, especially when dealing with immature 18 year olds that string you along.
Truth is, since the 2015 season, Cal has missed on almost all of his primary targets and his contingency plan has been to try to develop these 2nd tier 5* kids in one season, well, it's not working and the real disturbing part is who he's losing these recruits to. Washington, UGA, Missouri, LSU etc… , we can cry and say those schools are cheating, but that's not fixing the problem.
As far as giving Cal credit for adjusting THIS season, well, I award him a golf clap. What choice did he have? The timing of the transfer portal is what should get the real applause, that’s what saved Cal's bacon.
He needs to land Duren, there is no damn reason Memphis should come in and steal another recruit from us, they offer very little to a recruit, especially with Penny Hardaway coaching. If he misses on Duren, I'll feel like we still have a big problem. I'm not sure why all these bigtime recruits are going elsewhere, but it’s not good.
Nah, nah, nah, it ain't gonna work like that. The uproar here isn't on the fans.
Yes, we are happy we have veteran talent on this years team, but we're still one piece short and Cal knows it.
But here's the thing, Cal and his staff are recruiting Duren hard and we see it and we know that Cal has missed out on almost every blue chip kid he has targeted since the 2014 class. If he misses out again, to freaking Memphis, after going hard at him, well, that's an issue don't you think?
Don’t put it on us, that’s bullshit.
im not sure how you pass on a guy who didn't transfer.
You'd be a lot happier if you stopped believing the insiders who keep showing they don't know what they're talking about.
Most didn't even think Duren was playing college basketball until a couple of months ago.
Recruiting the top ranked player in the class when the rest of the class is locked up, it's AAU season, and your top big man target is his AAU teammate isn't exactly breaking your back for a guy.
Obviously we want him. Obviously Cal knew he was open to being recruited. But I don't remember anyone who knows what they're talking about thinking he'd be a Cat. Folks were optimistic when he visited, but at that point most still thought Miami hiring his coach would win out.
And it damn sure has nothing to do with what this thread is about. It was just another snarky circle jerk.
Remember what I told you, post the opposite of what you think, that advice gers more and more acvurate with every post you.make.
Kofi Cockburn is twice the player Tshebwie is and don't try to pretend Cal didn’t want him.
All of his eggs are in the one and done basket? 95% of our roster is guys who are/will be multi year players.
One of the reasons Kentucky is less appealing to a guy like Duren is because we have a multi-year former 5 star transfer at his spot and a couple multi year 4-stars at his other.
He was always a luxury that we had the resources to go after. Obviously he's better than what we have, but the basket isn't empty if we miss.
Baylor's style of play is the direct opposite of what Cal runs at UK. Baylor plays outside in and back out, Cal plays inside and there is no outside.
That’s why Baylor doesn’t need a bunch of bigs. They also don't have to deal with SEC refs where bigs aren't allowed to breathe.
Another side of that could be explored: how many of those guys are multi year in this program, and how many guys are on the roster because we struck out on the "big fish"? Someone could ask those questions as rebuttal.
Huh?, you can't tell the difference between Kevin Knox and Julius Randle? Notice how I didn’t compare Knox to AD or Wall, those guys are generational talents.
So, am I supposed to put Wenyen Gabriel, Knox, SKJ, Whitney, Hagans, Skal, Boston, Askew and Diallo in the same box as Cousins, Townes, Fox, Murray, Monk, Ulis, Knight, Randle, Bledsoe and Booker? They were all 5 star players right?
You see no difference between those two groups of players? If you don't, you're the one that doesn't understand.
We MIGHT have multi year players on this roster, but in reality we really don't have that many. Yeah, they're multi-year guys, but they won't be at UK for more than 1-2 years.
Take a look at what's going on for '22. Looks to me like he's going back to the one-and-done.
Who will we be getting back off the 21/22 team? Allen, Frederick, maybe Hopkins, maybe Ware. Who else? They don't come to UK to stay.
Sure. It isn't good at all. Especially for a school like UK. My thought(hope) is that is why he got Lucas, Antigua and Coleman. He knew he has missed on the big fish in the last hadnful of years and knew that needed to change. Hopefully it does with them. Yes Cal needs Duren. Losing him to anyone is troublesome but especially the school you left. That should be part of his pitch to Duren..."don't go to Memphis, this is why i left there and came here and you should to"
And yes crying about them cheating does nothing to help...especially now that we are NIL territory.
I've been very very critical of Cal's roster management in years past. Like in years past when UK had 9 or 10 scholarship players. I never understood leaving spots open! This offseason with the guys added UK is at 12 and was considered "complete" even if there are holes. One very big positive I see that we haven't seen in years with Cal is players will be able to play multiple positions outside of Tshiebwe and Wheeler. Not all of them are homeruns by no stretch but rarely has any team had homeruns at all positions. This will allow for better rotations and being able to adjust as needed.
You mention 15 and I would think 15 was probably the last time UK had this many guys and so many that interchangeable. And with 15 again, the last piece if Duren doesn't commit is for Cal to be willing to take a player's heart away. That ruthless "refuse to lose Cal" is what's been missing since Maye hit that shot in 17. Last year seems like it pissed him off...i'm hopeful it did enough to bring that guy back.
And I'd ask that person the definition of putting all your eggs in one basket. That's the whole point of the phrase. Otherwise they're just preferred options.
There were like 200 million transfers and a hundred undrafted kids. They don't go anywhere to stay.
You can blame it on the OaD kids, but if you had to pick someone most likely to transfer off this team, who would be your most probable picks? Exactly.
Plus, guys like Askew become punch lines if they aren't good right away and we're mad they were ever recruited. He, Matthews, Wiltjer, Juzang, Lee, etc got plenty of clock and still left for better playing time. There's no way to keep a kid who isn't good enough to start here but can start elsewhere.
Put the best roster you can on the floor every November and improve it as much as you can by April. Rinse and repeat as much as you need to.
Besides, crying that Cal passed on Kofi for Duren doesn't solve your issue either. He's going to play one more year.
I'd say he meant Cal has spent most of the program's recruiting time on guys who had no real interest in the program, then had to scramble to fill a roster with guys who weren't even on the radar. Guys who were bad fits and didn't stick around.
The landscape is shifting, and I'm personally in wait-and-see mode. If Cal can get some guys like Wallace, Sharpe, and Lively...and supplement with some solid rotation guys who stick around, that would be great. We're getting ready to find out. If Cal keeps getting punked by guys like Sheyer, Barnes, Boynton, and Penny he'd best have a Plan B.
Your definition of "punked" is as broad and convenient as your definition of putting all your eggs in one basket.
Nice to see the “he sucks anyway” crowd has came out. Wash, rinse and repeat next year when we miss that star player.
2016
“we don’t need Jaylen Brown”
2017
“we don’t need Jarrett Allen”
2018
“we don’t need Trae Young!”
2019
“we don’t need Zion Williamson”
2020
“we don’t need Jaden McDaniels”
2021
“we don’t need Cade Cunningham”
2016
“we don’t need Jaylen Brown”
2017
“we don’t need Jarrett Allen”
2018
“we don’t need Trae Young!”
2019
“we don’t need Zion Williamson”
2020
“we don’t need Jaden McDaniels”
2021
“we don’t need Cade Cunningham”
not true. I’ve been saying we need a star player since the beginning.
remeber when we didn't need lance stephenson, aaron gordon, etc.....because we literally 100% didn't need them? good times.
We were never in the Bates sweepstakes.
I just want to know what the hell Izzo did to piss this kid off?
I just want to know what the hell Izzo did to piss this kid off?
Good post, it looks like we're on the same page.
But I want to explain my "have to hit a hr at all 5 positions" comment. I know some will challenge this, but they will be wrong.
We have to realize that most power 5 programs have good to great coaching and they have great facilities and player development too. Villanova, UVA, Baylor, Gonzaga, Michigan etc… have all proven that player development works. Cal is recruiting NBA draft potential, well, kids that are bred for the NBA game, have to adjust to the college game and when all you're getting are 5* kids that have little to no skill, you are putting them up against dudes that have been in a bigtime p5 program for 3+ years, are equal size, have developed bodies and are highly skilled. You can't match that with guys like Knox and Wenyen. You need to get the best of the best EVERY year. If you don't, you won't sniff a final four.
You either get the best high school talent every year, or you develop kids over several years and rely on your coaching abilities. You can't do what Cal is doing right now.
Askew became a punchline because Cal pulled him out of HS early and shoved him in the starting lineup as the point guard… .at freaking Kentucky and kept him there for most of the season. Askew is a 4 year guy that had no business getting playing time over Zan Payne in 20/21. What a joke.
Juzang, KW, Baker, Matthews and Lee all transferred because they knew they weren't going to sniff the court the next season. They came to UK because UK is the one-and-done factory and most likely that’s what they were told during recruiting.
You have to change the culture before you expect kids to stay, you can't just waive a wand.
You can't tell me it can't be done, up until the transfer portal, we were one of 2 schools out of 350 that lost it's entire roster almost every year.
You’re acting like the transfer portal has been around for 50 years, this is year 1, you're throwing stats out like the transfer portal isn't bew. The game has changed, but that just means it's going to get worse for us. Cal is bringing in any 5* kid he can get, most, if not all, are low skilled kids with length and hops, those are the worst recruits you can take, because they have NBA tools, so they're only here for 1 year, but they need several years to develop.
So, Juzang knows he's sitting the bench so Cal can get Boston and Clarke drafted. Juzang, Baker, Matthews, KW and Lee made smart decisions, they knew Cal plays his draft picks 35+ mpg, who would stick around for that?
Programs like 'Nova, Baylor, UVA, Gonzaga (pretty much everyone else) are playing their Juniors and Seniors and look at the results, they're winning titles, we're struggling to reach 9 wins.
I think we'd all be happier if Cal started landing elite players again. I think Cal would be happier, too, given the success rate of his teams when they have frontend lottery picks leading his squads to deep runs in March and April.
Getting excited about Kellan Grady is fine and all when he has a DeMarcus Cousins to lob the ball to.
With NIL, I'm hoping Cal can earn his money and start figuring out ways to get those guys to Lexington for one year.
You’re smarter than this, I know it, I've read your comments for years on here. Why are you being obtuse about this? You know exactly what those phrases are referencing.
Exactly. Nobody would be complaining if Cal was getting the best of the best every year, or at least close to that, but the bottom line is, he’s gotten snubbed by every bigtime recruit since the '14 class sans Murray and Fox.
One side of this board has recognized that we aren't getting the recruits and a change is long overdue. The other half is acting like everything is fine. It’s not.
I also remember the days when "swaggy Cal" would walk up to Mick Cronin in a gym and tell him that he'd take any recruit from him that he wanted to.
And then I saw the same Mick Cronin take a Calipari transfer and turn him into the best player in the NCAA tournament last year.
Times have changed, and dramatically so for the UK program.
I wasn't saying anything crazy. I'm not sure why he wouldn't acknowledge it. I mean, I'd say Boynton and the chess board tweet was punking in it's purest form. And that's just one example.
But you have to remember that even the most sophisticated counter arguments to your points over the last five years have repeatedly failed. Here is the general outlook from that bunch:
1. Around 2017-2018ish, we were told that Cal was changing. He was starting to target guys like PJ, Tyler, SKJ, Tai, Shai, Quade, etc. - and those guys were multi-year guys. The paradigm was shifting.
2. Thus, Cal was learning his lesson. He was going to build rosters for multiyear competition, develop players over the long haul. "Give it time", they said.
3. And then Quade, SKJ, Matthews, Baker, Juzang, Whitney, Wynyard, Humphries, Gabriel, Vanderbilt, Briscoe, Askew, Boston, and Hagans happened, and the same voices went silent. Some of them didn't post here at all last season. A total Houdini act when the fruit of the "give it time" outlook became totally rotten.
4. Turned out, the Quade Greens of the world had the exact same mentality that that the Karl Towns of the world had: UK is good for one thing, expediency toward the NBA. That's all the staff pushed, and Cal openly mocked other vital notions (that mattered to parents of recruits) like Duke's "set for life" mantra (that keeps working to this day for them).
On the flipside, and this is to Cal's credit, the staff did shake things up this summer and address EVERY need. I'm willing to wait it out and give this next 2-3 years a chance. Cal landed penetrators, shooters, and added REAL assistant coaches.
If he caps this recruiting cycle off with Lively, Sharpe, and others, I'm sold.
People forget Kofi's main reason for coming back was so that he could work on his mid-range and long-range shooting based on NBA feedback. No way Cal was going to give that kid the freedom to "learn" how to shoot when we are trying to win games and have better outside weapons on the bench.
Exactly. If Cal starts landing guys like Sharpe and Lively, and can grow a roster of support players, then everyone is happy. And the fact that Cal made all these changes tells you things haven't been right.
It'll take some time to see if things truly change for the better. We'll see.
Sometimes it's just easier to play the game than to just be straight up.
Gonzo is a better poster than that though.
I'm not sure about individual agendas but I'm sure that not all five stars have the same impact their freshman year. Some players are ready and some aren't. Cal has pulled in some great 5 stars that have been worldbeaters right away and he's whiffed on quit a few 5 stars that are cornerstone pieces to contending for a championship. In that scenario he is usually scurrying to get a reclass to sign another 5 star or taking a secondary target. Which many times has not worked out well for us.
He's one of our best, most intelligent posters. But when he's committed to a position, he'll double down. In these situations, he's got a lot of that "plays the music while the Titanic is going down" in him. Last year, there weren't even any instruments to play because of the indefensible quality of our program.
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