That wasn't what Farrell said. I put the article on here yesterday. He said he had heard rumors nothing strong. The whole article was assumptions. He only put UT and Bama because they recruited him. He never said he heard that was where he would go.
Article on KSR Sounds Like Stoops Is Preparing For The Worst as Far as Portal Losses
- Thread starter shadowman4
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Listening to MS for 10 years, he is a play not to lose type of coach. A play to win coach is more of a score all the points you can type, playing on their toes instead of their heels. So I don't think MS will change that part of him. JMO
He is a very explosive player who can anything to the house. Let's not pretend otherwise.
However he also doesn't like blocking and puts little effort there and doesn't run good rub routes to get teammates open. We see both of those time and again. The best example was vs UT where he jogged and avoided contact/rub which allowed Dane to get blasted and caused an int. I'm sure that stunt did not go over well with anyone.
Another example was vandy. Scang had a great playcall against the perfect look. Instead of turning the screen up, he tried to reverse field. What should've been an explosive TD was instead a loss.
So if he leaves yes it will be the loss of an explosive playmaker but he is responsible for tons of negative plays too. You can guarantee any new destination won't be as forgiving as we are.
It’s about attitude and aggression not necessarily run/pass. Shoot if we throw the ball 40 times and 30 of them are swing passes what does it even mean? Just like the lazy blame for the OL went to Wolford it’s kind of lazy to just say it’s OC. I’m not defending scang, he may suck, but some of the issue offensively has always been stoops. In a time where the game is devised to be more about offense than it’s ever been we just struggle there. Citing one season of 10 with Coen as proof that stoops isnt part of it just tells me even more it’s stoops. If we cite finishing in the high 30’s in offense as anything other than an aberration it’s a reach and that’s nothing to write home about although it is functional production. But if there is only one in five oc’s that can be somewhat productive with the directives of the hc then something has to be dumped on the hc too.
What ultimately happens is yet to be seen, but losing players to the portal is going to happen to a lot of teams. It's how we respond to it that matters. Keep as many in the fold as possible, and respond to Portal losses by picking up guys who are just as good or better. We've managed to do pretty well so far. Had the OLine miss last year, but managed to get Tayvion Robinson to replace Wan'Dale. I'm not pleased with the recruiting class so far, that could use some last minute improvement. The key to these last two games is salvaging some respectability. Play Georgia tough and beat Louisville, then hopefully win a bowl game with all our players participating.
I know everybody wants Scan and Yenser gone, but none of you who call for that care to explain how an offense having 4 OC's and OL coaches in 4 years is supposed to be successful. at what point does constant turnover of staff come back to bite you?
Brown is a gifted kick returner, no question, but he needs lots of work at WR. Watch him next game, he is lazy running routes, sometimes only jogs. This is especially true if he's not the primary receiver. Also he's very slight, came in only weighing 160 or so, probably in the 150s now. He'll benefit greatly from S&C, gain weight and increase his hand strength, something he greatly needs. I hope he stays and works to get better.
Levis has mentioned he and the WR(s) aren't always on the same page. Wonder who he's talking about?
I think Stoops was hoping for more of what Coen brought with Scan, the OL problems have largely curtailed what they've been able to do in regards to that, which is why I don't think you knee-jerk replace Scan. Fix the OL first and then see if it's still an issue.
I think hiring Coen was Stoops answer to implementing a higher profile offense to combat other programs. I've always been baffled a bit by Stoops approach. His Brother Bob wasn't afraid to roll the dice by hiring guys like Mike Leach and Lincoln Riley. Of course Mark made a run at Riley before his brother stole him out from under us.
Scang is definitely a downgrade in play caller from Coen. The main thing I take away from Scang's comments is that Stoops is a tempo killer and it make it hard to succeed offensively the way Stoops wants it. It's limited snaps, late play clocks, and run heavy on first and 2nd down to keep the clock moving. It's a bad product for fans to watch.
Guessing in terms of routes and timing and such. I can understand that when most of your targets are Freshmen or first year guys.
They targeted him downfield starting with ole miss for a couple of games. But he’s not strong enough yet to come down with those passes. He’s Uber athletic and shifty but right now he’s a throw short and hope he breaks something type. We just need to find additional ways to do that instead of letting him disappear totally.
Can you imagine him having Riley run down clock and play it closer to the vest? woulddve Killed his career.
So let's rehash 10 years of OC under Stoops since it feels many are pushing this mainly on Stoops
1. First 2 years was Neal Brown....and he left for a HC job at Troy. The first year was a terrible year but the roster was a disaster. The 2nd year was not too bad at all IMO. Towles took some steps, Boom and JoJo established a run game and a young Garret 'Juice' Johnson, Javess Blue had decent years. Then Neal left and why is that perceived that Stoops handcuffed him? That is news to me.
2. Shannon Dawson was next...and a bad hire by Stoops and Stoops immediately fired him. Stoops deserves blame here as well. Maybe Stoops meddled in it...or maybe Dawson was a WVU OC but we all truly know Dana Holmsgren is the guy running that offense and Dawson was maybe over his head running the offense at UK.
3. Eddie Gran is the great debate....he was pretty good OC at CIncy. Then Barker gets hurt in game 1 after throwing all over the place. Then Stephen Johnson takes the mantle and was a good QB but we had Benny/CRod in his era and we pounded the rock. The running was great but the passing was awful. Terry Wilson never grew in the offense and no WR wanted to play in that offense. I think the sentiment it was more Stoops as it was Gran that was about plowing the ball vs. able to throw it.
4. Coen comes in 1 year and wham...we had a passing game and the running game didn't take much of a step back. And he leaves for Rams OC which stunk for UK.
5. Scangerello....this offense has been terrible, especially when you consider CROd and Levis with 3 good WR in the fold.
So all in all, 2 OCs IMO were fine at UK and left for better jobs. 2 OCs failed. So why is Stoops getting label as 10 years of offense issue as his fault?
I used to go along with some of that thinking. This is 10 years in. And it’s just how the offenses all look. Everything is a sludge. At some point it’s the hc’s responsibility. Whatever the reasons…it’s on him at some point. with an evolving sec East it’s really going to get exposed with ut improving and if Napier gets uf moving in any semblance of a forward direction. The way the two teams are playing we lose to them if we play this week.
Let me be clear, I don’t dislike stoops and think that his personality and connections in Ohio are a fit at uK. But the offense is a clear issue to me that he has to be attached to. Just like the performances after bye’s, clock management and a couple of other things that have been constant issues over his tenure. It has to improve. It can’t just be players that are expected to get better.
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I think your argument is valid...Stoops is where the bucks stops. And the offense, defense, special teams and recruiting are all his responsibility in large part. And Stoops offensive outputs is what prevents him being top tier and instead a middle tier head coach.
I think it's reasonable to give Stoops another offensive re shuffle. He did it with Coen and it was a homerun IMO just last season. I don't see why Neal Brown is labeled a bad offensive output in his 2 years then off to head coach at Troy. If he screws up another offensive hire...then I'd be more inclined it's time to move on from Stoops.
Please go back and research the hiring of Coen.
The ONLY WAY he would agree to take the OC job here at UK was IF he had total autonomy to install HIS offense and call HIS plays without interference from CMS.
I doubt Scangs was in any position to demand that autonomy, and it shows.
Now, I don't think Scangs is the man for the job, but I also don't believe for one minute that this putrid, slow playing, risk averse offense is all his doings.
If you listen to CMS he has said so himself. That is the pace HE WANTS TO RUN ON OFFENSE, and running the FB on 1st and 2nd down to run clock is a given for him.
Can you explain how Huepel installed a high powered offense in one spring training camp and leads the nation in offense in year two?
UK fans need to get over the common misconception that "Change" is bad.
We must have the beaten wife syndrome. I'll stay with this loser because the next coach might be worse.
If it helps,our AD is obviously afflicted with the same mindset.
The right FB and right BB coach could move both programs up to a championship level, someone just needs the balls to make it happen.
I am sick and tired of "old school football" on offense and 1990's offense in basketball. Someone needs to bring both programs unto the 21st century on offense or we are going to lose players, fans, and most importantly, we are going back to losing more games than we win.
Might as well go back to putting our best playmaker at QB and let him run pretty much every play.
Maybe we can build an Oline and find that 1 person in the portal every 2 to 3 years.
All I’ll say is this: If you don’t want to be on this team, and you think you can do better for yourself then please, leave. It tells me you were never really part of the team to begin with.
On the flip side, if our Head Coach doesn’t trust his coordinators with how they call a game then that coach needs to be fired.
Lastly, the only way to fix the issues at UK starts with a new AD. This curmudgeon we have in there now will never dictate terms to any head coach. His idea of a successful athletic program is sharing the wealth created by a few with everyone. It’s a losers mentality.
On the flip side, if our Head Coach doesn’t trust his coordinators with how they call a game then that coach needs to be fired.
Lastly, the only way to fix the issues at UK starts with a new AD. This curmudgeon we have in there now will never dictate terms to any head coach. His idea of a successful athletic program is sharing the wealth created by a few with everyone. It’s a losers mentality.
What proof do you have of any of this? I never heard of Coen asking specifically for this...not Scangerello never getting this at all?
Iirc that was actually Gran, which is why Gran had the very unusually lofty title of head coach of the offense.
I don't remember this....hell if Gran was so undercut by Stoops...why is he still on the staff in another capacity? but I don't see any evidence that Coen demanded any special level of control anymore than Scang, Brown, Dawson or Gran as OC. That sounds like we're talking out of our ass to make up a narrative.
I wouldn’t say Neal was bad. In fact, I really appreciated that a 2-3 plays a game he had something that totally fooled a defense we just didn’t always execute. That being said, there is a certain way stoops wants to play and it’s beyond obvious now. So it makes it tough to decide how much is on oc vs having to do it under his set of parameters in this day and age of football
The only way we can begin to fix this mess is for Barnhart to reach down and grab a bigger set and move on from Stoops. Otherwise ... he will have to go. There're serious issues within this program and what you mention are simply the symptoms of the deeper problems. With the changes in college footaball, it will not be an easy fix but Stoops is not the answer and Barnhart may not have it in him to fix it. I certainly don't want him in charge of the next hire to replace Stoops ... at all.
I don't think Coen had a previous coaching position that he could demand what is stated above. That's just so much BS.
Gran went through alot here. That's for sure. On the football side, he was a victim of his own success in running the ball. Plus many of those early bowl teams needed to milk the clock. Over time the perception of Gran, combined with the ever revolving door at wr coach, and the repulsive hinshaw made it nearly impossible to recruit some positions. That's the only reason there was a mutual agreement to change. Gran was one of the best ocs in college football hands down.
Back to his personal struggles, be lost a daughter and a best friend while here. Says the staff and the people in the building feel like to family. Can't imagine how difficult it was coaching his final season basically on his own. That had to be alot.
Back to coen - stoops had no leverage. Coen was a massively rising star in the coaching ranks and it was a steal to get him at all. Really quickly it was apparent we'd be damn lucky to keep him two years. You have no leverage to put pressure on a guy like that
Actual quotes from CMS when Coen was hired. Coen would only take the job if he could call his own plays during the game.
If you haven't heard Scangerello say he is calling plays based on the system he is trying to fit in, you haven't been paying attention.
Either way. If this is Scangs system or he is calling plays with the oversight of CMS, the current offense is a complete failure.
No need for finger pointing. It lays at CMS feet to get it fixed NOW.
I guarantee CMS KNOWS what the problem is. The question is will he fix the offense and keep his hands off of it except for situational decisions that require input from the HC.
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Do me a solid....find that article or post the web link. Otherwise...you're looking like you are making up stuff. A quick google search should be easy to find and post to verify what you're insinuating
Here's an idea. If you want to read it for yourself "a quick Google search should be easy to find and post to verify what I read".
Go for it. If you have watched both offenses and think one is anywhere close to the other you see something that I don't see. We have reverted back to playing Gran offense.
Run on 1st and 2nd down. Taking 30 yd shots on 3rd and 3. Passing behind the LOS.
What do you think is the common denominator?
Well it was your paraphrase...so why don't you find the article?
(of course you sound more like you pulled that out of your ass...so I'll patiently wait for you to come up with it)
I couldn't care less what you " think" about my post.
"Coen’s responsibilities will now shift a bit. He orchestrated the entire offense and called the plays from the sideline at Kentucky, but McVay has been the play-caller since taking over the Rams in 2017. It’s more of a collaborative effort in Los Angeles.
Coen said. “I had this year when I was able to put this system to paper and gain this experience.
The ONLY reason Liam came to UK was CMS assured him that he could implement HIS OFFENSE" and actually call plays during the game. That came from a CMS presser. Right out of CMS mouth.
"With the Rams, McVay is the offensive mastermind. He runs the show. It’s a totally different story than Kentucky, where Coen has total autonomy on offense as the play-caller and quarterbacks coach. So why would Coen go to a place where he couldn’t call plays?"
Doesn't matter if you believe it or not.
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Y'all are both good posters, but I definitely remember Coen having freedom in playcalling being one of the things he wanted. Stoops also realized the offense needed to change and agreed not to meddle. I poked around a bit on the interwebs and this article came up quickly. I'm sure it was discussed elsewhere too. It discusses his move back to the LA Rams.
"With the Rams, McVay is the offensive mastermind. He runs the show. It’s a totally different story than Kentucky, where Coen has total autonomy on offense as the play-caller and quarterbacks coach. So why would Coen go to a place where he couldn’t call plays?"
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/k...stant-that-kentucky-cant-but-might-lose-2022/
What you "think" is the real BS.
Coen was an NFL coach on a Super Bowl Championship team.
Stoops had to make concessions and ante up big dollars to even get Liam to CONSIDER coming to a program like UK.
Stoops wasn't the one taking a big risk.....it was Liam Cohen.
Be careful. You will be accused by @K_TIME for pulling FACTS out of you a$$, because he didn't remember the Coen hiring process.
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I know a person on the strength & conditioning staff ( rarely tells me anything) but he said players are constantly on their phones with ex- high school teamates and players they know that are playing for other D1 schools about how much their school is “paying “ people that play their position. They are always comparing. And there is always rumors about what they will get “next year” or “what’s coming “ . He said it’s a distraction and affects the overall focus of the program. ESPECIALLY when things aren’t going well .
I can pretty much guarantee this is happening on every D1 team . And it’s just human nature. I was always curious what other people in my profession were making and easily would have left for more money . And the vast majority of these guys have 2 or 3 years to make money playing football cause they ain’t gonna be in the nfl . The clock is ticking on them and they know it. It’s going to be chaos .
I can pretty much guarantee this is happening on every D1 team . And it’s just human nature. I was always curious what other people in my profession were making and easily would have left for more money . And the vast majority of these guys have 2 or 3 years to make money playing football cause they ain’t gonna be in the nfl . The clock is ticking on them and they know it. It’s going to be chaos .
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We would be the laughing stock of college football if we fired Stoops at this point. That’s crazy talk.
I didn't have one and neither did you.
But, I did follow that hiring process very closely, and if you had also, you would know that THE deciding factor for Liam taking the job was CMS giving him the opportunity to take his offense, which Coen had on paper, but had never had the opportunity to actually implement and coach it, CMS was going to give him autonomy in implementation of Coen’s offense and also actually calling plays during the game which he was not getting to do with McVay in LA.
But, you choose to call my post BS even though you know absolutely NOTHING about what took place yourself.
Think about that. Is that who you are or are you just sucking up to K_TIME?
Stoops has reached his limit. The program has and will continue to spiral down.
