2011, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2018, 2021 Cal is 132-62 for 68%

[billCgmx]

That's, quite literally, comparing one to the other.

I figured you might have rescinded it after looking at how silly it was.

Cal inherited Miller and Liggins, who we're essentially nobodies and came in as Sophomores. The only player he got much use out of, in his first year as a coach, was Patrick Patterson. Cal was the one who turned Liggins and Miller into solid players. He then went on to win Final 4's and Elite 8's without any of them.

Contrast that with Kevin Ollie who inherited: Seniors Shabazz, Giffey and Kromah, Juniors Daniels and Boatright.. and all Ollie added was freshman Brimah. Ollie then went on to do zilch after that title, and if you ask any Uconn fan (because I know quite a few) they'd sooner forget Ollie's tenure there.

Imagine the mental gymnastics trying to equate the two, and how much disdain you must have for Cal to think he should thank BCG for anything. A truly, remarkably, bad post.

Since it seems like you struggle with reading comprehension, I will leave you with this...

Miller averaged over 21 minutes a game during his first couple of seasons here. It's remarkable that you continue minimize his contribution to some great teams.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Since it seems like you struggle with reading comprehension, I will leave you with this...

Miller averaged over 21 minutes a game during his first couple of seasons here. It's remarkable that you continue minimize his contribution to some great teams.

When you say "first couple seasons.." do you mean his 2nd season that he played for Cal? Or his 3rd or 4th he played under Cal?

Don't come at me with the reading comprehension nonsense lol.. you said some bullshit takes, and you got taken to task on it. Comparing what Cal inherited to what Ollie inherited shows how bad of an argument this is. Comparing senior Shabazz Napier to sophomore Darius Miller also shows how awful of a take this is.

Because you seem to be changing the argument as best you can, I'll put it simply: Under no circumstances, did John Calipari inherit any form of a team from BCG.. While Kevin Ollie inherited a team of upperclassmen coached by a HOFer, where some of his players, were in the title game a few years prior.

Go to bed.

 

[billCgmx]

When you say "first couple seasons.." do you mean his 2nd season that he played for Cal? Or his 3rd or 4th he played under Cal?

Don't come at me with the reading comprehension nonsense lol.. you said some bullshit takes, and you got taken to task on it. Comparing what Cal inherited to what Ollie inherited shows how bad of an argument this is. Comparing senior Shabazz Napier to sophomore Darius Miller also shows how awful of a take this is.

Because you seem to be changing the argument as best you can, I'll put it simply: Under no circumstances, did John Calipari inherit any form of a team from BCG.. While Kevin Ollie inherited a team of upperclassmen coached by a HOFer, where some of his players, were in the title game a few years prior.

Go to bed.

Straw Man

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Something I've sorta realized in the last 2 months of this miserable season: Not everyone wanted Cal from the start. I know, that shouldn't be a surprise. But when he was hired I figured everyone thought this was a home run. I thought the vast majority were on the same page.

Turn out, not so. It's pretty clear several posters and even a chunk of the fanbase, never wanted him or liked him. But because he was absurdly successful for 5-6 years, they had to grin and bear it."Well we won, but dammit I still hate him for what he's doing to the Kentucky name!". And the second things take a TRUE nose dive (An elite 8 isn't a failure), they let it rip with "I told you so's" and how he's doing it on purpose. It's almost like, a handful of guys here are excited he's failing..

That was a genuine surprise to me. I figured he'd have a little bit more runway. I figured he earned it.

nah. Very few were like that. Some? Of course but the large majority? No.

 

[UKortho]

Look Cal isn't a God, he's just a coach, but this is dumb. So if you only factor in his weaker seasons he has a 68% win rate? Well he only has an 89% win rate if I factor in the seasons you wanted to ignore.

There's a smart way to talk about Cal's issues but this ain't it.

Tubby’s worst 6 years win rate was 68% I believe. Tubby’s last five years winning percentage is actually better than Cals last five years (including this year).

 

[UKortho]

The Cal haters should just focus on the decline and not mention anything else.

once you start saying things like well if we throw out the best years and just keep the bad ones, you’ve lost the argument.

once you feel the need to do that it means your argument is a weak one

Nah, just look at the last five years. That’s all the proof needed that Cal is losing his edge. He recruits and coachs like it’s still 2015. He us now behind the curve and it shows in the win-loss column.

 

[cats#1again]

Thats his choosing and his recruiting strategy you just supported everyone's issue with Cal my Cat friend and that is meant with zero sarcasm

No, that's the time and day we live in unless you want to recruit worse players and to a dif school. If a 4/5 star kid wants to come to uk/duke/ kansas they want to go pro and within 2 seasons. Idk what the answer is but that's the cold hard facts. It's not cals fault just like it isn't coach k. It's the era.
Our fans are guilty of even telling kids they are failures if they stay longer. The whole time poythress or miller were here they were told they were failures. We may have some deny it now but it's the truth. Miller was the last player from the old era that weve had at uk.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Cherry picking stats to boost a narrative is intellectually dishonest.

it works for the bible thumpers!

 

[armchairpg]

Yikes. I'd love to use OP in a national campaign advertising why we need to teach our kids statistics from an early age.

As far as the "it should be automatic with all those draft picks" argument - the same people who use that line also bemoan the fact that you can't win it all without experience. It's not a good faith argument - it's trying to play both sides of the coin.

You guys know that they draft on potential. You complain when they leave early because they aren't "really ready", but the NBA invests in their future anyways.

Yeah, some of them are stars out the gate, and overall, Cal and K won more that decade than anybody else, so obviously it worked, but to act like he had this huge unilateral advantage with no mitigating factors is stupid and disingenous. You guys bitched about the lack of experience every year as you watched him turn many, many teams from 18 YO AAU slopfests into title contenders.

Well put. Stars are based on potential and not necessarily ability to produce day 1. It is a gamble to see if he can get them ready every year. We love when it pays off so there should be some slack when it doesn’t. This year has been way below the norm but there are a couple of other tiny factors at play.

 

[JoeBolognas]

So just to reiterate what every reasonable person has agreed on here: if you’re counting years where we went to the final four and championship game as “bad seasons,” you’ve already lost the argument.

 

[The_Answer1313]

So just to reiterate what every reasonable person has agreed on here: if you’re counting years where we went to the final four and championship game as “bad seasons,” you’ve already lost the argument.

Exactly. I mean if you want to look at Cal's entire tenure and say I don't think he did well, that's fine. I don't agree with that but it's their opinion. If they even want to say well he's on a downward trend and they feel it's going to get worse from here, that's fine too. Again I don't necessarily agree with but whatever.

What you cannot do is just remove years because it doesn't fit the narrative you are trying to create. What you cannot do is diminish what has been accomplished. I mean we went to a title game in 14 and people were trying to diminish it...............you can't do that.

 

[KyFaninNC]

What

Something I've sorta realized in the last 2 months of this miserable season: Not everyone wanted Cal from the start. I know, that shouldn't be a surprise. But when he was hired I figured everyone thought this was a home run. I thought the vast majority were on the same page.

Turn out, not so. It's pretty clear several posters and even a chunk of the fanbase, never wanted him or liked him. But because he was absurdly successful for 5-6 years, they had to grin and bear it."Well we won, but dammit I still hate him for what he's doing to the Kentucky name!". And the second things take a TRUE nose dive (An elite 8 isn't a failure), they let it rip with "I told you so's" and how he's doing it on purpose. It's almost like, a handful of guys here are excited he's failing..

That was a genuine surprise to me. I figured he'd have a little bit more runway. I figured he earned it.

whatever capitol Cal built up his first five years, he spent it this year with his politics, kneeling and condescending attitude towards the fans.

 

[billCgmx]

So just to reiterate what every reasonable person has agreed on here: if you’re counting years where we went to the final four and championship game as “bad seasons,” you’ve already lost the argument.

I would say there's a difference between bad and disappointing seasons. Look at the 2014 resume.

Preseason #1 team in the country
Lost 11 games
Didn't win the SEC regular season title
Didn't win the SEC tournament
Lost in the NCAA Finals

That's pretty disappointing in my book.

 

[JoeBolognas]

I would say there's a difference between bad and disappointing seasons. Look at the 2014 resume.

Preseason #1 team in the country
Lost 11 games
Didn't win the SEC regular season title
Didn't win the SEC tournament
Lost in the NCAA Finals

That's pretty disappointing in my book.

Call it whatever you want, if you’re counting a season that we hang a banner for as a negative against the coach, consider whether your book is actually worth reading or should be tossed in the trash.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

it works for the bible thumpers!

And leftists!

 

[KYCAT78]

Lol. Any analysis that considers 2011 - win over #1 Overall seeded Ohio State, win over hated UNC-Cheats to go to the Final Four - and 2014 - probably the most thrilling 4-game run in NCAA tournament history by ANY TEAM to reach the Final Game - as part of a coach’s “litany of failure” doesn’t need to be debated. It’s ridiculous on its face.

Debate 1-4 against Duke, UNC and Kansas in last 5 meetings. We have basically been their bitcch. Our program has become a average program under the overpaid snake oil salesman.

 

[deep3]

it works for the bible thumpers!

Big man, you want to explain why you brought religion into this? Are you a bigot brother?

No need for that garbage, you can make a point without that. Mods this stuff is completely unwarranted

 

[billCgmx]

Call it whatever you want, if you’re counting a season that we hang a banner for as a negative against the coach, consider whether your book is actually worth reading or should be tossed in the trash.

Disappointing

 

[deadtracker]

I’m not on the “Calipari can do no wrong train”, but yes, it has been 1 bad year. Albeit this year has been terrible. The only other season that compares is 2013, and we all know that team ended up in the NIT because of the loss of Noel.

To try to argue that 2011 and 2014 were “bad” years is disingenuous at best, and downright stupid if one actually takes the time to think. Seasons that end in a Final 4 and title game appearances are not bad. They’re just not

Certainly Calipari needs to change up some things to get the train back on the tracks, but to act like his tenure outside of 4 seasons has been a disaster is a HUGE reach.

I will never understand why Cal gets a pass on a NIT season because he lost one player. I agree, he was our best player, but Kentucky should be able to lose its best player and still make the NCAA tournament. It isn't that hard to make the NCAA, or at least it wasn't that hard, for past Kentucky coaches. I mean, Pitino lost his best player in 1997 and went to the Championship game.

 

[deadtracker]

You really trying to compare what BCG "gave" to Cal with what Calhoun gave to Ollie? I don't even think YOU believe that you just wrote..

What is true is Miller played a crucial role on that team and everyone knows Cal would never have recruited him.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I will never understand why Cal gets a pass on a NIT season because he lost one player. I agree, he was our best player, but Kentucky should be able to lose its best player and still make the NCAA tournament. It isn't that hard to make the NCAA, or at least it wasn't that hard, for past Kentucky coaches. I mean, Pitino lost his best player in 1997 and went to the Championship game.

I think it's more about winning the title the previous year.

I dunno for some reason if we head to the NIT this season it stings far more than 2013 IMO. We should never go to the NIT but if u are going to go may as well be the year after a title.

 

[yoshukai]

If you don’t count the years Rupp didn’t win national championships, Rupp didn’t win any national championships.

And ........HE‘S BACK !!!

 

[kybassfan]

And ........HE‘S BACK !!!

Maybe. I’m still choking on the kneeling thing in Florida. As I have said many times, if I can’t say some positive, I’m not stupid enough to bash my team in public.

 

[Swifterz]

Take out the years he was really, really good, including 38-1 one season and a NC in another, to try and produce a bad looking record 👍
Still went to 2 final 4’s in the years you mentioned 🤣.

 

[The_Answer1313]

You know......if you take out 2013,2016 and 2018..............that's some run lol.

I mean it's a dumb argument lol.

 

[hotelblue]

2013 - THREE 5-star recruits and FIVE future NBA players
2014 - SIX 5-star recruits and SEVEN future NBA players
2016 - SEVEN 5-star recruits and SEVEN future NBA players
2018 - SIX 5-star recruits and SEVEN future NBA players
2021 - THREE 5-star recruits

not a bad player development report.

 

[jwphelps]

It is NOT just “one bad year”

I certainly realize that we made the final four in 2011 and 2014 but:

2013 First round loss in NIT
2014 title game loss to the worst coach ever to win the NCAA
2016 Second round loss to Tom Crean
2018 Sweet 16 loss to Bruce Weber and arguably the second worst team we ever lost to in the NCAA tournament. Oh, and they did not have their best player
2021 worst season in 100 years

Cal has been trending down since that 2015 team and now we see what happens when he only has average talent.

 

[billCgmx]

not a bad player development report.

Too bad didn't develop fast enough to win more games while in college.