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“OFFICIALS SUPER BOWL THREAD- BENGALS @ RAMS

Agree with most of this. Have no opinion on Brady, though. I do know Carolina cannot be hung on any one coach's neck. That franchise is chaos right now.

Sucks for Burrow that his body has already aged 4-5 years in NFL terms because of a lack of protection on the OL, especially when the freakin franchise went into the off-season last year KNOWING they needed a great player at LT. Cost them their first Super Bowl victory.
The Bengals didn’t need a LT. Jonah Williams is very serviceable. The Chase pick was the correct pick. They don’t get to the Super Bowl without him.

Reilly Reiff being out at RT didn’t help. They had no depth on the line and it cost them. I think the Jackson Carman pick might be what haunts them more than not taking a lineman in round 1. Will be interesting to see what they do in free agency and the draft.
 
I think the front office deserves a little more credit. They’ve changed how they’ve operated and look what’s happened. They pretty much bought a super bowl defense outside of Bates and Hubbard. They’ve drafted pretty well lately.

I don’t see a reason to think they won’t address the o line. They may not get the next Willie Anderson to play RT but I’m confident the line will be improved.
This same front office didn’t fix the O-line after Burrow got his knee wrecked last year
 
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This same front office didn’t fix the O-line after Burrow got his knee wrecked last year
Sure but he also advised them to take Chase so that should tell you something. The front office took a 2-14 team to the Super Bowl in 2 years. That’s impressive. They can fix the line.
 
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Sure but he also advised them to take Chase so that should tell you something. The front office took a 2-14 team to the Super Bowl in 2 years. That’s impressive. They can fix the line.
The personnel decisions have improved since apparently Katie took over for Mike. I actually think the schemes are very good the Bengals are game planning. They had the fewest penalties in the league which is something else I really, really like. And we don't turn the ball over. Zero in the Super Bowl. So there is something to work with.

None of that dismisses the failure to address the offensive line at the same time they drafted Joe. We're 2 years too late.

So how do we improve? Obviously it's all in on the O-line and the whole world is calling us out for it now. 70 sacks in 1 year for a QB cannot ever happen. In Joe's last 22 drop backs he was sacked 7 times. These are historic unprecedented numbers.

We also must address offensive play calling. We were pathetic in the red zone the whole post season. So along with doing whatever it takes we need a legit OC to take play calling away from Zac. I am strongly recommending Joe Brady even though he just got the job as QB coach for the Bills. I'm sure Joe would love that move as well.

The things are fixable. But as Cawood keeps pointing out if you've watched the Bengals since the 70's like we have you know they will fail miserably, wind up going cheap to save a buck, then lose Chase and all the best players in free agency. That's what our history suggests.

So will Katie change things? Does she have the pull to do that. I once knew her personally but we were both children. She was very bright but even back then Mike was dumb as a rock. I played at their house with Katie and Paul Jr. on many a day. So can she make a difference? That's what we will all watch and see.
 
The personnel decisions have improved since apparently Katie took over for Mike. I actually think the schemes are very good the Bengals are game planning. They had the fewest penalties in the league which is something else I really, really like. And we don't turn the ball over. Zero in the Super Bowl. So there is something to work with.

None of that dismisses the failure to address the offensive line at the same time they drafted Joe. We're 2 years too late.

So how do we improve? Obviously it's all in on the O-line and the whole world is calling us out for it now. 70 sacks in 1 year for a QB cannot ever happen. In Joe's last 22 drop backs he was sacked 7 times. These are historic unprecedented numbers.

We also must address offensive play calling. We were pathetic in the red zone the whole post season. So along with doing whatever it takes we need a legit OC to take play calling away from Zac. I am strongly recommending Joe Brady even though he just got the job as QB coach for the Bills. I'm sure Joe would love that move as well.

The things are fixable. But as Cawood keeps pointing out if you've watched the Bengals since the 70's like we have you know they will fail miserably, wind up going cheap to save a buck, then lose Chase and all the best players in free agency. That's what our history suggests.

So will Katie change things? Does she have the pull to do that. I once knew her personally but we were both children. She was very bright but even back then Mike was dumb as a rock. I played at their house with Katie and Paul Jr. on many a day. So can she make a difference? That's what we will all watch and see.
The people making decisions now weren’t even alive in the 70’s. They were studying for spelling and geography tests in the 90’s. None of that has bearings on the organization now. The Bengals have made a concerted effort to change. That’s been obvious. They’ve been open about that. So far, it’s been working.

Everyone knows the line needs improved. They’ve improved every other facet of the game. They’ll get that improved too
 
The people making decisions now weren’t even alive in the 70’s. They were studying for spelling and geography tests in the 90’s. None of that has bearings on the organization now. The Bengals have made a concerted effort to change. That’s been obvious. They’ve been open about that. So far, it’s been working.

Everyone knows the line needs improved. They’ve improved every other facet of the game. They’ll get that improved too
So you don't think we need to address play calling? No legit OC?
 
The halftime show completely broke the closed captions setting on my TV. Be nice if we could’ve gotten a show with clear words spoken.
 
Sure but he also advised them to take Chase so that should tell you something. The front office took a 2-14 team to the Super Bowl in 2 years. That’s impressive. They can fix the line.
Chase was a no brainer pick. Carman on the other hand.....well.

They can fix the line, but will they?
 
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Sean Mcvay said that when he saw the Bengals line up in shotgun on 4th and 1 he knew AD would end the game right there and then. No duh. So did everyone else that saw Joe get sacked 70 times in 1 season.

4th and 1 is too easy. Zac wanted 4th and 4 to make it more fair so take a couple steps back and put your head on a tee, Joe.
 
So you don't think we need to address play calling? No legit OC?
We averaged the 7th most points per game with a bad offensive line. I think the play calling was fine. It wasn’t perfect. I’d like to be more aggressive at times but I don’t think we should be firing our OC.
 
The personnel decisions have improved since apparently Katie took over for Mike. I actually think the schemes are very good the Bengals are game planning. They had the fewest penalties in the league which is something else I really, really like. And we don't turn the ball over. Zero in the Super Bowl. So there is something to work with.

None of that dismisses the failure to address the offensive line at the same time they drafted Joe. We're 2 years too late.

So how do we improve? Obviously it's all in on the O-line and the whole world is calling us out for it now. 70 sacks in 1 year for a QB cannot ever happen. In Joe's last 22 drop backs he was sacked 7 times. These are historic unprecedented numbers.

We also must address offensive play calling. We were pathetic in the red zone the whole post season. So along with doing whatever it takes we need a legit OC to take play calling away from Zac. I am strongly recommending Joe Brady even though he just got the job as QB coach for the Bills. I'm sure Joe would love that move as well.

The things are fixable. But as Cawood keeps pointing out if you've watched the Bengals since the 70's like we have you know they will fail miserably, wind up going cheap to save a buck, then lose Chase and all the best players in free agency. That's what our history suggests.

So will Katie change things? Does she have the pull to do that. I once knew her personally but we were both children. She was very bright but even back then Mike was dumb as a rock. I played at their house with Katie and Paul Jr. on many a day. So can she make a difference? That's what we will all watch and see.

You are right about Taylor’s play calling. Hoping that improves. The crucial 3 and 1s w Perine and going Shotgun on the 4th and 1 for me were head scratchers. I also didn’t like not punting on that early possession but it’s one of those “if it had worked” type of deals.

However, I think they do fix the o-line this offseason. The Bengals are now in the national spotlight, any amount of resistance from the Browns I think will be met with too much outside pressure and scrutiny to do the right thing.
 
You are right about Taylor’s play calling. Hoping that improves. The crucial 3 and 1s w Perine and going Shotgun on the 4th and 1 for me were head scratchers. I also didn’t like not punting on that early possession but it’s one of those “if it had worked” type of deals.

However, I think they do fix the o-line this offseason. The Bengals are now in the national spotlight, any amount of resistance from the Browns I think will be met with too much outside pressure and scrutiny to do the right thing.
Is the play calling a product of compensating for the OL deficiency? There's stuff we just can't do right now
 
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The Bengals didn’t need a LT. Jonah Williams is very serviceable. The Chase pick was the correct pick. They don’t get to the Super Bowl without him.

Reilly Reiff being out at RT didn’t help. They had no depth on the line and it cost them. I think the Jackson Carman pick might be what haunts them more than not taking a lineman in round 1. Will be interesting to see what they do in free agency and the draft.

Ha! Serviceable doesn't mitigate AaronD. Try again.

JChase has nothing to do with my comment. Never said he wasn't the correct pick. Fkn Bengals fans flailing at everyone regardless of what they've posted ... lol.

There is more than the draft. Regardless of how, they needed and still need to get it done. If they want to win a Super Bowl, it is very clear what needs addressing. Ignoring it or excusing it isn't going to get them the trophy.
 
Is the play calling a product of compensating for the OL deficiency? There's stuff we just can't do right now

Exactly. The only thing I thought before the game that they needed to do to win that they didn't do well was move Burrow out of the pocket. He throws well enough outside the pocket that they may have slowed the rush some by doing that. Using their speed against them...

You have to have good enough linemen to do that as well, if you have really smart or instinctive pass rushers. I figured that their OL wasn't good enough or they'd have done it more. Huge difference between a designed roll out and being chased out of the pocket, and all I remember seeing was Burrow running for his life.
 
We averaged the 7th most points per game with a bad offensive line. I think the play calling was fine. It wasn’t perfect. I’d like to be more aggressive at times but I don’t think we should be firing our OC.
The going for it at midfield in the 1st quarter was a bad call imo. Lead directly to a Rams TD. Taylor was fine but that call seemed a bit too soon for me.
 
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The personnel decisions have improved since apparently Katie took over for Mike. I actually think the schemes are very good the Bengals are game planning. They had the fewest penalties in the league which is something else I really, really like. And we don't turn the ball over. Zero in the Super Bowl. So there is something to work with.

None of that dismisses the failure to address the offensive line at the same time they drafted Joe. We're 2 years too late.

So how do we improve? Obviously it's all in on the O-line and the whole world is calling us out for it now. 70 sacks in 1 year for a QB cannot ever happen. In Joe's last 22 drop backs he was sacked 7 times. These are historic unprecedented numbers.

We also must address offensive play calling. We were pathetic in the red zone the whole post season. So along with doing whatever it takes we need a legit OC to take play calling away from Zac. I am strongly recommending Joe Brady even though he just got the job as QB coach for the Bills. I'm sure Joe would love that move as well.

The things are fixable. But as Cawood keeps pointing out if you've watched the Bengals since the 70's like we have you know they will fail miserably, wind up going cheap to save a buck, then lose Chase and all the best players in free agency. That's what our history suggests.

So will Katie change things? Does she have the pull to do that. I once knew her personally but we were both children. She was very bright but even back then Mike was dumb as a rock. I played at their house with Katie and Paul Jr. on many a day. So can she make a difference? That's what we will all watch and see.
There are several really good and informative Bengals podcasts out there. Do yourself a favor and check them out.
 
Ha! Serviceable doesn't mitigate AaronD. Try again.

JChase has nothing to do with my comment. Never said he wasn't the correct pick. Fkn Bengals fans flailing at everyone regardless of what they've posted ... lol.

There is more than the draft. Regardless of how, they needed and still need to get it done. If they want to win a Super Bowl, it is very clear what needs addressing. Ignoring it or excusing it isn't going to get them the trophy.
They signed a RT who was solid. You said they needed a LT. They don’t. Their best lineman is a LT. Aaron Donald lined up against the guards and center. He wasn’t going up against the tackles. The Jackson Carman pick may haunt them. He may also develop into a solid starter. He was just a rookie. They definitely need to address the interior part of the line. No one would argue otherwise.
 
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Ha! Serviceable doesn't mitigate AaronD. Try again.

JChase has nothing to do with my comment. Never said he wasn't the correct pick. Fkn Bengals fans flailing at everyone regardless of what they've posted ... lol.

There is more than the draft. Regardless of how, they needed and still need to get it done. If they want to win a Super Bowl, it is very clear what needs addressing. Ignoring it or excusing it isn't going to get them the trophy.
Get a grip, dude. The Bengals finished last in the division last year, and the year before. Many experts predicted we’d bring up the rear in the AFC North again this year. Yet somehow we win the division, and then end our 30-year streak of not winning a playoff game. That’s not enough though, so we knock off the top two seeds in the AFC to reach the Super Bowl. We weren’t even supposed to be in the playoffs yet. It was a 5-year plan when we hired Taylor. We’ve made one perfect move after another. Then we screwed up and made the damn Super Bowl too soon lol. Before we could put more pieces in place. You’re right. Total system failure.
 
The offense was blessed with Burrow and Chase that covered up a lot of the bad play calling especially inside the red zone in every playoff game. Everyone is focusing on Chase being wide open on the 4th down play, but Zac calling that go route on 2nd and 1 was a terrible call when we had two wide open receivers over the middle. You don't need or want the go route in that situation. It's a low percentage pass and if you hit on it all you do is give the ball back too quickly to LA.

Zac's entire red zone offense consisted of running up the middle for 1 yard twice with Mixon, then putting Joe in 3rd and goal in obvious passing situations where he got sacked most of the time. Then FG time.

Our offense is too talented to be handicapped by extremely poor play calling. Seriously, Joe Brady would be fire if we reunited him with Joe.

Also, Tom Brady has an entire history out there of how effective play action controlled passing is in end of game situations and before him Joe Montana was the same. Just advance the ball underneath and DO NOT waste any plays. Penalties and waisted plays are the drive killers in end of game situations. If you throw short crossing patterns with the receivers in motion to give them the opportunity for RAC yards then you move down the field quickly. What you NEVER want to do in end of game situations is heave the ball up long into all that coverage and waste a very very valuable down. 2nd and 1 is where we lost the game and that is squarely on Zac just as all the awful red zone plays were the whole entire post season.
 
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Get a grip, dude. The Bengals finished last in the division last year, and the year before. Many experts predicted we’d bring up the rear in the AFC North again this year. Yet somehow we win the division, and then end our 30-year streak of not winning a playoff game. That’s not enough though, so we knock off the top two seeds in the AFC to reach the Super Bowl. We weren’t even supposed to be in the playoffs yet. It was a 5-year plan when we hired Taylor. We’ve made one perfect move after another. Then we screwed up and made the damn Super Bowl too soon lol. Before we could put more pieces in place. You’re right. Total system failure.
The Bengals have replaced roughly 80% of their starting lineup from when Taylor took over. That’s a lot of roster turnover in 3 years. Boyd, Mixon, Uzomah, Hubbard, Bates and Hopkins are the only ones I can think of that were holdovers from the Marvin era. It’s impressive what they’ve built to this point. It’s not complete of course but they’ve done a great job up to this point.
 
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The Bengals have replaced roughly 80% of their starting lineup from when Taylor took over. That’s a lot of roster turnover in 3 years. Boyd, Mixon, Uzomah, Hubbard, Bates and Hopkins are the only ones I can think of that were holdovers from the Marvin era. It’s impressive what they’ve built to this point. It’s not complete of course but they’ve done a great job up to this point.
A lot of your posts I mostly agree with, but it is glaringly obvious we need to improve the play calling. You citing offensive statistics mean nothing when we had Joe and Chase lighting up the league. When it meant something, when it was tested, we were just awful in the red zone and it was the play calling not the execution. Not a single play action pass on 1st down in the red zone the whole playoffs. Practically zero 1st down passes period. Instead he's putting Joe in obvious passing situations and getting him sacked at an historic rate while calling idiotic go routes where Joe has to hold the ball when he's been sacked in 7 of his last 22 drop backs.

Seriously, you are a good poster but a lot of times you sound like this guy:

bagdad-bob.jpg
 
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Is the play calling a product of compensating for the OL deficiency? There's stuff we just can't do right now
NO! It is the exact opposite. The awful play calling CONTRIBUTED to the OL deficiency by putting Joe in obvious long passing situations on 3rd down. You guys laugh at me for harping on play action, but that is 100% of what our offense should have featured, not barely used. Especially in the red zone. The failure to use more play action 1st down passing was the biggest failure of the Bengals season including the offensive line. It was that big of a mistake.

Play action passing, max protect packages, and rolling Joe out of the pocket were just not employed properly to compensate for an awful offensive line. Instead Joe was put in shotgun in 3rd and long and asked to make something happen which got him sacked 70 times in 1 season. A god awful number that is an abomination.

BTW, I am not making up some extravagant NFL innovation, I am talking about what NE, TB, and Tom Brady won a zillion playoff games and Super Bowls doing. Brady wanted the ball out of his hands and that's how you do it.

The entire NE system is designed to control the pass rush with flair passes and the short passing game to give the QB multiple options on short routes to make the defense pay for going after your QB. The ball is out of Brady's hands in under 2 seconds. It features passing on 1st down, play action in 1st and 2nd downs, and pre snap reads by the QB. You never hold the ball as it's there or it's gone. Bill Belichick mentioned Tom had brought that NE system to TB and there was extensive press coverage about Tom going to Arians and telling him his long passing game was getting him sacked too much and that he demanded they implement that short controlled passing game based off PLAY ACTION PASSING which you guys laugh at me for harping on which I do because it was so obvious but we still failed miserably.
 
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A lot of your posts I mostly agree with, but it is glaringly obvious we need to improve the play calling. You citing offensive statistics mean nothing when we had Joe and Chase lighting up the league. When it meant something, when it was tested, we were just awful in the red zone and it was the play calling not the execution. Not a single play action pass on 1st down in the red zone the whole playoffs. Practically zero 1st down passes period. Instead he's putting Joe in obvious passing situations and getting him sacked at an historic rate while calling idiotic go routes where Joe has to hold the ball when he's been sacked in 7 of his last 22 drop backs.

Seriously, you are a good poster but a lot of times you sound like this guy:

bagdad-bob.jpg
I didn’t say it was perfect or couldn’t have been improved. Red zone efficiency needs to get better. The offense seemed to turn the corner after the Niners game and we were more aggressive.

It’s hard to warrant firing the OC and stripping the OC of his play call duties when the offense was pretty good compared to the rest of the league. Especially with how bad our line has been. I’d like to see what Zac does as a play caller with a serviceable line.
 
Zac has been getting deservedly roasted for that 2nd and 1 go route, his 3rd and one run with his 31st best player, and his just awful shotgun formation on 4th and 1.

Burrow at LSU proved in the right scheme he is literally unstoppable. He has Chase there. Reunite the Beatles and bring in Joe Brady. No brainer. Zac can stay as they're going to extend him. I am happy enough about the overall scheming and lack of penalties plus the direction of the program to keep him on, but take play calling off his plate and do him a favor.

You don't think Joe Burrow wouldn't LOVE reuniting with Joe Brady? You don't think Chase wouldn't?

Not sure what it takes to get him to give up his demotion to QB coach for the Bills, but an OC job with Joe and Chase would be a very powerful inducement for everyone involved.
 
We also must address offensive play calling. We were pathetic in the red zone the whole post season

Imo you fix the OL and you solve much of this problem.

I think Zac gets way too much criticism for play calling. Somehow they navigated their way to almost winning the Superbowl despite having an incompetent OL. That takes alot.
 
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That takes alot.
That takes Burrow and Chase, but it was exposed in the playoffs where we were miserable in the red zone. It also got Joe sacked 70 times by not adapting to what we had. More than ample evidence to make a much needed change that actually helps Zac focus on other things. We don't need Zac Taylor calling the plays and especially because at best he's so-so. Nobody is going to fall all over themselves making a case for he's good at it. The National Media and the talk shows are roasting him right now.

Joe Brady is sitting right there wasting his talent as the friggen Bills QB coach. We must take advantage of that opportunity to fill a much needed gap. Easy pickens. Katie, get on it.
 
They signed a RT who was solid. You said they needed a LT. They don’t. Their best lineman is a LT. Aaron Donald lined up against the guards and center. He wasn’t going up against the tackles. The Jackson Carman pick may haunt them. He may also develop into a solid starter. He was just a rookie. They definitely need to address the interior part of the line. No one would argue otherwise.
Hearing talk about moving Williams to either G or RT and signing a top FA LT. What do you think of that? I personally like it. Williams is good but not a top LT imo.
 
The Bengals have replaced roughly 80% of their starting lineup from when Taylor took over. That’s a lot of roster turnover in 3 years. Boyd, Mixon, Uzomah, Hubbard, Bates and Hopkins are the only ones I can think of that were holdovers from the Marvin era. It’s impressive what they’ve built to this point. It’s not complete of course but they’ve done a great job up to this point.
Agree. The O-line is obviously priority one. Another edge rusher as well and a CB.
The Bengals have as good a core of offensive weapons as there is in the NFL.

When Taylor took over, there were holes and gaps everywhere. Now they have fixed many of those areas. Now they can focus on the ones tha are not yet done.
 
Hearing talk about moving Williams to either G or RT and signing a top FA LT. What do you think of that? I personally like it. Williams is good but not a top LT imo.
I agree with your assessment of Williams. He’s not an all-pro LT but he can help you win. There’s a few stud LTs in free agency that if we can get one and Williams is capable of moving to guard or RT, I’m all for it.

I don’t know how easy that jump is from LT or LG or RT. I’m sure it’s not as easy to do as it is on Madden lol. The right side of the line needs help. I’d love to draft Kinnard. I was reading some project him as a guard in the NFL.
 
I agree with your assessment of Williams. He’s not an all-pro LT but he can help you win. There’s a few stud LTs in free agency that if we can get one and Williams is capable of moving to guard or RT, I’m all for it.

I don’t know how easy that jump is from LT or LG or RT. I’m sure it’s not as easy to do as it is on Madden lol. The right side of the line needs help. I’d love to draft Kinnard. I was reading some project him as a guard in the NFL.
Agree on Kinnard. I wish like hell they would have drafted Creed Humphrey instead of Jackson Carman.
 
Agree on Kinnard. I wish like hell they would have drafted Creed Humphrey instead of Jackson Carman.
Carman looks like a bad pick. Hopefully he develops, but we’ll see. He showed some flashes of being able to move people. I prefer we sign OL and draft the best play available regardless of position outside of QB and maybe WR. The Bengals have drafted well at seemingly every position besides the OL. I’d rather bring in experienced linemen.
 
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