Can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, Archie is my least favorite player in the Cal era. He accomplished absolutely nothing, either individually or with team success, and then bolted after one year. I have no problem with guys leaving early, but I guess I'm a believer in "succeed and proceed." Goodwin clearly forgot the succeed part of that equation. To me, he epitomizes all the bad stereotypes of the one-and-done, and gives those who legitimately should leave after one year a bad name.
Why are so many fans negative on Archie Goodwin?
- Thread starter bookerfan66
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I think KY kids (your examples: Polson, Hood, Willis) that play at UK are given the benefit of the doubt more so because fans feel as if they can identify with them more being from KY and I don't think it has anything at all to do with race. As Polson exceeded expectations, Hood and Willis at this point have left a lot to be desired considering their high school rankings. It's funny you left Hawkins off the list...
Posters, myself included, would've liked to see Hawkins get more minutes last year despite some obvious offensive weaknesses in his game. Is that race related as well? No, I think we pull for the KY kids, white or black and want them to succeed.
It's hard to argue that race is the motivation for some undue criticism when the most beloved Cats of all time just happen to be black athletes.
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Honestly, I don't know how anyone who watched the players you're talking about would post what you just posted. The reason people don't say the same things about Bledsoe/Teague is not because of supporting cast, it's because they were entirely different types of players who did not have the same flaws as Goodwin.
I'll concede Teague had his own flaws, but stylistically he was virtually the opposite type guard as Goodwin. Teague was a true point first and foremost committed to defense and passing, he did not seem interested in how many points he scored, and never remotely looked selfish. Hell, if anything, one of Teague's early problems was that he did not assert himself enough offensively (which he finally did change when he began looking to score more during the tourney run). Conversely, Goodwin played like a wild eyed gunner who often seemed WAY too concerned about his own points over everything else, and often seemed completely blind to his wide open teammates.
And let's ease up on the exaggeration about Goodwin's supporting cast. I might remind you that team began the season ranked No. 3 in the nation and had more 5 star McD All Americans than any other team in the country (other than maybe Duke, as I recall). That season was miserable because of factors like poor chemistry, off court issues, soft ass defense, immature (and often seemingly selfish)guard play, and injury (see Noel), but NOT because of lack of raw talent.
Honestly, I don't know how anyone who watched the players you're talking about would post what you just posted. The reason people don't say the same things about Bledsoe/Teague is not because of supporting cast, it's because they were entirely different types of players who did not have the same flaws as Goodwin.
I'll concede Teague had his own flaws, but stylistically he was virtually the opposite type guard as Goodwin. Teague was a true point first and foremost committed to defense and passing, he did not seem interested in how many points he scored, and never remotely looked selfish. Hell, if anything, one of Teague's early problems was that he did not assert himself enough offensively (which he finally did change when he began looking to score more during the tourney run). Conversely, Goodwin played like a wild eyed gunner who often seemed WAY too concerned about his own points over everything else, and often seemed completely blind to his wide open teammates.
And let's ease up on the exaggeration about Goodwin's supporting cast. I might remind you that team began the season ranked No. 3 in the nation and had more 5 star McD All Americans than any other team in the country (other than maybe Duke, as I recall). That season was miserable because of factors like poor chemistry, off court issues, soft ass defense, immature (and often seemingly selfish)guard play, and injury (see Noel), but NOT because of lack of raw talent.
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He shot 26.6% from 3-point range, 63.7% from the FT line and had 13 more turnovers than he had assists on the season. Obviously had we had a legit PG or another offensive option it might have been different.
Pretty sure I'm the one that the OP is thinking of when he started this thread. I called Archie the most selfish player I had ever seen at UK. But I didn't blame the whole mess on just him. I also said our point guard was a head case, Wiltjer had one talent and it only showed up sporadically, and WCS and Poythress couldn't do anything without guards that got them the ball where they could do something with it.
The whole thing was just awful to watch. Nerlens hustled his butt off but he couldn't do everything. He got hurt covering for someone's terrible pass. The offense wasn't much better than the product Tubby put out there his last two years. Archie was a huge part of that.
The whole thing was just awful to watch. Nerlens hustled his butt off but he couldn't do everything. He got hurt covering for someone's terrible pass. The offense wasn't much better than the product Tubby put out there his last two years. Archie was a huge part of that.
Kid was the best scorer on a thin roster with limited offensive weapons. He was a freshman, his previous experience was him being the man on offense. No great pg on that team. Not much depth. Not much chemistry. I never saw him so much as selfish as much as I saw him being thrust into a role of having to do too much coupled with a lack of experience.
He obviously accomplished enough to warrant $8.5 million before he turns 23. But he shouldn't have left...
You're right; he got $8.5 million and UK got a first round loss in the NIT. Not hard to see who got the better end of the equation, hence the reason that some (many, maybe) have a negative opinion of Goodwin. I'm a UK fan, first and foremost, and want to see mutually beneficial relationships between player and program. When a player comes in, has a bad year individually, the team has its worst season in decades, and then he bolts, it's going to create negative feelings.
Anyone who is objective at all, lists players and a lot of other things in life by the most liked to the least. The least doesn't necessarily mean hate, etc. Perhaps just the least favorite.
If it wasn't selfishness then it was an extreme lack of court vision.
All I know is I don't think I've ever seen another UK guard miss SO many wide open teammates. It was frustrating as hell to see possession after possession where we'd have have, for example, Wiltjer spotted up open in the corner or Nerlens with inside position in the post, and Archie would just plain ignore them and instead fork up yet another one of his patented off balance running shots with defenders draped all over him.
Whether you want to call that selfishness or something else is up to you, all I know is the guy stunk at passing the ball to his teammates.
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So, a kid who was barely 18 years old when his Freshman season started, played on a directionless team, forced to play out of position and still tried his best is garnering negative comments?
Reason 2 billion and seventy our fanbase is ridiculed and laughed at.
Reason 2 billion and seventy our fanbase is ridiculed and laughed at.
Goodwin had to carry that sorry team so many nights and he felt he had to score/shoot a lot to help UK stay in and win some games. It's not Goodwin's fault UK went to the NIT...that was 100% due to Noel's injury. Now were they going to do anything in the NCAA? Not really, maybe 1-2 wins tops IMO, but if they had made a Sweet 16 I think people would look at Goodwin differently.
Yep. Goodwin was an NBA player and leading scorer on a team AND why did his team lose to Robert Morris, a team with no NBA guys? He was such a lousy team player he couldn't even get his team past the NIT first round. He had the ball in his hands more than any other player, put up more shots that any other player. And really had low basketball IQ, wasn't a good Defensive player and never made anyone around him better. He was looking at getting a check the following year and really wasn't coachable. The fact that he's still in the NBA and his team lost first round of NIT proves my point.
Anyone who doesn't see how Goodwin really wiffed on being a team player at UK doesn't understand anything about basketball.
Anyone who doesn't see how Goodwin really wiffed on being a team player at UK doesn't understand anything about basketball.
The only reason I watch CBB is because of these kid's futures. To do otherwise would be selfish.
I think part of it is that he was called on to do things he just wasn't totally capable of. He shouldn't have had the onus on him like he did that year.
But also, he hasn't seemed to connect with the fanbase afterward. It feels like he actually is the stereotype one and done: just here because he has to be, and moving on and not looking back. Noel went through the same bad season and he's beloved because he still reps UK. Cousins reps UK, AD does, Patterson, Randle.... but Goodwin doesn't seem to be into that sort of thing.
I could be wrong, I'm not very socially media active.
But also, he hasn't seemed to connect with the fanbase afterward. It feels like he actually is the stereotype one and done: just here because he has to be, and moving on and not looking back. Noel went through the same bad season and he's beloved because he still reps UK. Cousins reps UK, AD does, Patterson, Randle.... but Goodwin doesn't seem to be into that sort of thing.
I could be wrong, I'm not very socially media active.
It's not that Mandu, but to sh!t on a true freshman because he didn't win enough or play well enough is stupid. The kid was out of control and frustrating as hell but some these guys take it personal and as far as we know he was a good kid not a trouble maker.
If that season is on anybody it was on Cal, he didn't put together a good enough roster, even if Teague and Lamb surprised him. It was a down year, people can be wusses about it and lay it all on one kid but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Goodwin was 2nd on the team in assists. He was also a SG...not his job to pass the ball, his job is to score and he averaged 14 points per game, pretty darn good for a frosh. Is he one of my favorite UK players? No. That has nothing to do with how well the team did his one year here though as that was not his fault at all. He had to play with guys like Wiltjer and Harrow and Mays...he did not get to play with AD, MKG, Miller, Lamb, Teague, and Jones, or even get to play with the much superior to 2012-2013, 2013-2014 roster.
Yeah you are wrong, he hyped up this team big time during an interview saying nobody would beat UK this year. Also I have seen some of his interview in Phoenix and in his locker he has UK on it, not sure if it's a poster or what but every home interview I see of him it's there.
I wasn't even really pointing you out. I just think a lot of people are disingenuous about their feelings sometimes. I wonder how people would feel if Cal wasn't our coach and the philosophy of the program was different. Maybe I'm reading the situation wrong or maybe I'm a little bitter that we have a press conference for 7 guys when we didn't win anything. Perhaps I'm questioning myself over whether or not I actually am selfish. I don't really know anymore.
I'm not in favor of "shitting" on Archie Goodwin either. No good can come from it. He's making money now, more power to him, seriously. He always played hard when he was here and I do think he tried his best to succeed on a team that wasn't a contender. But I'm not going to pretend that he's one of my favorite Cats either.
It was more or less a throwaway line from me, honestly.
Goodwin and Malik Monk are friends , his treatment while here will be a factor in Monks decision and I suspect it could be a deciding factor . Why go to a school that doesn't have your back no matter what , you pick them but only get support if you perform well . You would be better off going to a school that appreciated getting an elite player .
I can't remember what exactly was said...but after he left he said some things that some didn't like....maybe others can recall?
Funny that the Archie defenders now remember him having to be the PG. Harrow played most of the year, Polson was the PG when he didn't and Mays backed him up at PG. RARELY did Archie play any PG. I swear our fans will say any stupid thing to justify something.
I wasn't the biggest Archie fan because of how he played the game and very rarely made any effort for his teammates. Seemed like everything he did was for himself. Countless times he would take an out of control shot or even just a more difficult shot when he would have an open teammate for an easy basket. On breakouts, you might as well forget about him passing the ball on a break. He would rather throw up a contested shot over his head before giving up the ball. Maybe he just didn't have any confidence in him teammates but I just don't like that way of playing. His demeanor and attitude on the court were not the most conducive for playing as a team and I don't really think his teammates enjoyed playing with him either. Too me, its a very telling sign when a players teammates don't like to play with a guy and that's the vibe that I got from the 2013 season. The rest of the players would simply just stand around and watch him bulldoze out of control and force up an incredibly difficult shot. To the kids credit, it looks as though he has matured a bit and seems to be doing well out in Phoenix and I really hope he continues his maturity and progression to become a really good player and teammate in the NBA. Although I wasn't a huge fan of his play while he was here for that year, I'm sure it was a hard year for the team, he will always be a Wildcat and so I will always root and cheer for him to succeed in the league.
I'm one of the many people who was happy to see the kid go. He drove me crazy more so than any other player I can think of. I know we had no depth, but that dude would've never played for me if I was coach
I just remember him constantly driving into defenders and getting called for a foul, but like many have said he didn't have much help.
He played like a freshman and didn't have the upperclass leadership on hand to to ease him through some of his issues.
Phil Jackson once published in a book that Kobe Bryant was uncoachable - then returned to coach him to two more titles.
Cal himself was caught on the mic calling Terrence Jones a "selfish mf." Jones helped lead us to a FF and a championship after that.
Some people read way too much into what players and coaches say in the heat of the moment.
Phil Jackson once published in a book that Kobe Bryant was uncoachable - then returned to coach him to two more titles.
Cal himself was caught on the mic calling Terrence Jones a "selfish mf." Jones helped lead us to a FF and a championship after that.
Some people read way too much into what players and coaches say in the heat of the moment.
Id listen to the argument that Goodwin was the worst of the three, but I disagree that they didn't all have similar issues. Poor shot selection, turnover prone, all three would often recklessly drive and either turn it over or throw up a poor shot. All three were the whipping boys of the fan base during their year here. The main difference was that Goodein was the only guy who would do anything on offense. Everyone else was content to give it up as soon as they touched it. Maybe it was mostly due to selfishness, but we had a lot of players who were too willing to play passively on offense.
Unlike you, the hardened realist, who ignores anything positive, ever, so that he can go an an extended hissy fit? Well, kudos to you for that.
