Some have brought up comparisons to 2013 team and you keep hearing there is no selfish player like Goodwin.I thought Archie was a very good player for us and he had to take lots of shots because of who he played with.Ryan Harrow was in and out with problems,Mays couldn't do much,I love Nerlens but he wasn't exactly an offensive machine,and Kyle didn't exactly tear it up.
Why are so many fans negative on Archie Goodwin?
- Thread starter bookerfan66
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I was always an Archie fan and I think fans needed someone to blame for a down season.
Yeah I'm not sure how selfish he was but he played way out of control most of the time. Very talented but sometimes did not play like it because of his youthfulness.
We had no point guard so Archie was forced to handle it much more than he should have. Because he had the ball in his hands so much out on the floor it really highlighted his weaknesses, such as lack of jump shot and no court vision. Had he played with a guard that was comfortable with the ball he would have looked really good. He'd have had an amazing year if he had stayed and played with the twins.
Also because we had virtually no offense on that team he had to force more shots than what would be considered normal. The other team knew we couldn't run anything so they just sat in the lane and waited for Goodwin to put his head down and drive to the hole for a super tough shot. He suffered because of his limited skill set and unflattering circumstances.
Also because we had virtually no offense on that team he had to force more shots than what would be considered normal. The other team knew we couldn't run anything so they just sat in the lane and waited for Goodwin to put his head down and drive to the hole for a super tough shot. He suffered because of his limited skill set and unflattering circumstances.
Because he wasn't any good and was a me first player who ducked his head & threw up crap.
Yeah, sometimes he had no choice but to shoot because no one else would, but he would do the same thing over and over again, just run into defenders underneath.It probably had more to do with lack of basketball iq than selfishness but some of both. It didn't help that the camera caught Cal telling him, "I can't coach you".
LOL for someone who " wasn't any good " he is still getting NBA checks ... He was forced to do to much as Poy was the only other guy on that team who might be able to score.
He played out of position he is clearly not a PG but was forced to do so here. Combine that with outside him not many guys could create their shot and the results won't turn out good
Archie played out of control a lot..that team struggled to score and he had to force the offense. Elite athlete and defender. Will have a 15 year nba career. Got really good minutes this year in the second half of the season and produced. Always had points, steals, assists, rebs...was a stat stuffer even at 10-15 min a game. Archie was a product of that team more than he was just a bad player. If Nerlons would have stayed healthy I bet we all would have had different opionions of those players. They were top 25 when he went down. Bet they would have been a sweet 16 team with him.
I got in a pretty huge argument with some friends about this very topic a few weeks ago. To hear them tell it, Archie Goodwin single-handedly ruined our 2013 season. Like others have said, the most obvious weakness for Archie is that he did not have a capable point guard to play alongside. He was the only one who could create off the dribble, so if the defense only has to worry about one player driving the ball, it's going to be fairly simple to key on that.
I ended up getting pretty mad, because I was conceding points from their argument but they wouldn't listen to me at all. It was all "He sucked", and "I know so and so who knows Coach Cal and he said that Coach Cal said he hated coaching Archie and was glad he left." All Archie ever did was play really hard on offensively (and defensively) challenged team and put up solid numbers. 14ppg on 44% shooting and 4.6 rebounds per game. I've always thought if you put James Young or Aaron Harrison in Goodwin's situation, it would've been even worse for those guys.
Towards the end of our argument, I mentioned for the 2nd time that if Teague had returned, Archie would've had a much easier time. The response I got? "Teague sucked. Wasn't even good. I hated Teague." Total facepalm. I said, "MY GOD! How did Archie ever have a chance? You hate the PG who helped lead us to a National Title"...."OH well Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist are the reason we won the title."..."No you are wrong. We don't win the title without them I'll give you that, but I think you need to re-watch the tournament run and watch just how well Teague ran the team."..."I don't care I've already watched it I remember, Teague sucks."...."OK Nevermind, you are freaking stupid."
I ended up getting pretty mad, because I was conceding points from their argument but they wouldn't listen to me at all. It was all "He sucked", and "I know so and so who knows Coach Cal and he said that Coach Cal said he hated coaching Archie and was glad he left." All Archie ever did was play really hard on offensively (and defensively) challenged team and put up solid numbers. 14ppg on 44% shooting and 4.6 rebounds per game. I've always thought if you put James Young or Aaron Harrison in Goodwin's situation, it would've been even worse for those guys.
Towards the end of our argument, I mentioned for the 2nd time that if Teague had returned, Archie would've had a much easier time. The response I got? "Teague sucked. Wasn't even good. I hated Teague." Total facepalm. I said, "MY GOD! How did Archie ever have a chance? You hate the PG who helped lead us to a National Title"...."OH well Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist are the reason we won the title."..."No you are wrong. We don't win the title without them I'll give you that, but I think you need to re-watch the tournament run and watch just how well Teague ran the team."..."I don't care I've already watched it I remember, Teague sucks."...."OK Nevermind, you are freaking stupid."
For the same reason fans trash Willie Cauley-Stein or the Harrison twins. We didn't win it all, so we have to eat our own and blame someone. Never mind that they often played the biggest role in the success we did have.
Three words sum up what most think about AG:
Reluctant to pass
Reluctant to pass
The way I remember it Archie was pretty much all the explosive firepower we had except for Nerlens' dunks.....He could have shied away from trying to carry us but instead was always in attack mode; AT LEAST trying to give us a chance
Loved Archie's competitiveness even though he did make some freshman-like mistakes...Oh wait, he WAS a freshman
Loved Archie's competitiveness even though he did make some freshman-like mistakes...Oh wait, he WAS a freshman
The only real offensive option on an offensively challenged team. Plus he got the worst block/charge whistle I can ever remember. Would've greatly benefited the next season from the rule change.
Archie was the most selfish player I can ever remember.
How many times would he have the ball on the break and a player wide open in front of him and he took it on in himself?
How many times would he drive the lane and throw up something instead of dishing off and then fall down?
How many times does Cal have to tell a player "I can't coach you" before some of you realize he was selfish?
I keep hearing the tall tale about how he had to shoot because nobody else could. Nobody else got much of a chance with Archie in the game. Archie hurt us more than helped us.
In my top three of the most disliked players in my 50 yrs of following UK BB. I was pleased when he said he wasn't coming back.
How many times would he have the ball on the break and a player wide open in front of him and he took it on in himself?
How many times would he drive the lane and throw up something instead of dishing off and then fall down?
How many times does Cal have to tell a player "I can't coach you" before some of you realize he was selfish?
I keep hearing the tall tale about how he had to shoot because nobody else could. Nobody else got much of a chance with Archie in the game. Archie hurt us more than helped us.
In my top three of the most disliked players in my 50 yrs of following UK BB. I was pleased when he said he wasn't coming back.
he made some selfish plays offensively. lol it was obvious to me cal was telling him to drive all the way to the rim early in the year. like wall and bledsoe. he does it in purpose trying to force then to make plays with speed consistently, if that's your talent. and goodwin was fast. but the point is for most of the year it was charge city.
Look, I like Goodwin and hope he does well. But anyone who watched that season should know why many fans were down on him.
Yes, he's very talented and played really hard, BUT he also was often wildly out of control, a turnover machine and a poor passer who did not seem to see his wide open teammates. And, frankly it did sometimes seem like he was more concerned with auditioning himself for the pro scouts than UK.
But those flaws hardly made him unique on that dysfunctional team. To be honest, the ONLY guy in our starting lineup at the end of that season that I got the impression was still 100 percent committed to the front of the jersey and not wanting the season to end was Julius Mays. But, unfortunately, Uncle Julius simply did not have the talent to make a difference.
Yes, he's very talented and played really hard, BUT he also was often wildly out of control, a turnover machine and a poor passer who did not seem to see his wide open teammates. And, frankly it did sometimes seem like he was more concerned with auditioning himself for the pro scouts than UK.
But those flaws hardly made him unique on that dysfunctional team. To be honest, the ONLY guy in our starting lineup at the end of that season that I got the impression was still 100 percent committed to the front of the jersey and not wanting the season to end was Julius Mays. But, unfortunately, Uncle Julius simply did not have the talent to make a difference.
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Goodwin was a convenient scapegoat for a disappointing season.
He played hard 100% of the time in a role he shouldn't have had to play, and I appreciated his contributions. Wish he had a sophomore season with us.
He played hard 100% of the time in a role he shouldn't have had to play, and I appreciated his contributions. Wish he had a sophomore season with us.
I dont like bashing former players, period.
Probably because he left without having any success at all. I can understand if you perform and leave for the nba, but don't leave when you haven't done anything. Him and orton. He might be getting paid in the nba, but I'd rather be a starter getting a considerably better paycheck
Stay in college with a pillow to fall back on instead of leaving for the nba walking a tightrope to get a shot. The guys playing behind some of the best guards in the league unless he leaves the Suns
Success has nothing to do with leaving to the NBA and Orton made the wisest choice of all of our early entrants.
Archie was one of the most frustrating players all time and lots of good responses here (except for the usual from Chuck and Rolaid), looking back he was all we really had that year and the kid played extremely hard.
Playing extremely hard running to the basket throwing up shots that would never go in...
If he was white and from KY it would be a polar opposite description of his game .
If he was white and from Kentucky I would have still screamed "pass to the open guy Archie!!!" like I did dozens of times that season.
Watching Goodwin and Harrow that year was an absolutely miserable experience as a fan. I really disliked those two. I know it's not PC here but Goodwin was super selfish and played stupid and out of control while Harrow was a constant crybaby (even at NC State he was a crybaby) so I was glad when that season ended.
I feel like if you put Bledsoe or Teague in that situation instead, people would say similar things. Those guys were on good teams that allowed them to pick their spots. If Archie had other good players around him he would be remembered a lot more fondly.
I'm in the same boat. Him, Harrow, and Orton are in my top 5 of most disliked Kentucky players. I know everyone freaks out if you don't worship every player that played here but Goodwin was very unlikable, uncoachable, selfish, gave us one of the most miserable seasons, and then ignored Cal's advice to come back, which I was absolutely fine with.
I remember Archie driving the ball with his head down a lot. Seemed like he never passed the ball. I'm sure I yelled at him through the TV a lot that season . But in hindsight, I kinda feel sorry for him. That team was just not very good. There really wasn't anyone for him to pass it to. Someone had to do something and he was probably our best option.
Yea sure and so many bent over backwards singing the praises of John Hood when he contributed nothing . It was how he could jump out of the gym and was a sharp shooter despite not being a good shooter at all . They look for a good attribute or make up one and talk white KY players up .
Conversely they look for faults of other players and whine at every chance . Every chance Polson was talked up and every white player has a major contribution to give but just doesn't get the chance . Willis is another example , he gets in the game and does little against the mop ups but they can't say enough great things about his game .
It's so transparent and yet most everybody ignores it because they don't like what it says . Just imagine if Archie met the criteria , his jumping , speed and ability to get by his man would be amazing . If only Cal could recruit some better players to help him , if he can get to the basket they should at least be able to rebound the ball . He has to drive the ball , he's the only one who can create his own shot .
T.Jones went through the same thing in 11 while being the biggest reason that team didn't collapse early in the year . If Teague met the criteria with his role in 12 could you imagine his legend ? Like it or not it's a big factor , pretend it's not there if you want . Archie did his best on a team that was limited due to recruiting misses , that team was offensively challenged and he was forced to do things out of necessity .
Exactly. People who bash Orton's decision are clueless. If anything he was the smartest guy of all to leave when he did, considering his knees crumbled apart immediately he signed his rookie contract. If Orton had stayed another year he likely would've ended up never getting drafted at all.
Just curious, when is the last time we had a 'good ole Kentucky white boy' that was a contributor in anything? Those days have been over for about 15 years.
