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Matt Jones regarding the NIL at UK.

I don't represent any coaches and am not privy to individual contractual structuring, but I suspect most coaches' marketing rights are owned by third parties who pay the majority of the very large salaries. Given what you can glean from media reports, it would seem JMI is not willing to play ball, while the partners of many other major football programs understand the word partner and are working things out to keep the schools and, more importantly, the players happy.

That isn't jmi. That's sponsors being asked to accept a reduced value for money already contractually spent. All Mitch has to do is rework those particular sponsor contracts. He had the perfect opportunity with the stoops extension. He whiffed, again.

This entire issue is easily solved. However it all starts with Mitch being proactive. Not his strong suit, to say the least
 
Thought I read where it took OH ST 8M to keep their players for next season? Does this sound right or did I misread? Anyway, if that is right, how can we raise that kind of money every year just to keep guys?
Ohio's coach Ryan Day was quoted this summer that he needed his fans/boosters to provide NIL of $8M a year, if they want to maintain as a top 5 talented program
 
I really don't understand this. How can JMI control the uniform usage? You would think Nike would be the one bitching about using g the uniforms for NIL
JMI owns the rights to the trademark and all media rights. Nike would love for the uniforms to be used. Every uniform has a swoosh which is advertising for Nike.
Then it sounds like JMI providing NIL monies for Uk athletes would be good for JMI business.
While I don’t disagree with that idea, JMI represents other schools besides UK and that may be a rabbit hole they don’t want to enter. They are investing $210M over the life of the contract and who knows what return they are getting on that investment? If they give away access to trademarks or sell access at a reduced rate that undermines their ability to sell it to sponsors at the rate they want. It’s their business and their money at stake.
 
That sounds fine but if it isn't them, it will be someone else. The school won't just let its IP be used for free. Whether it's jmi, UK, or some other acronym; no one is using school name or trademark for free.

If Jones had anything besides self interest, he'd explain this so to avoid setting unrealistic expectations for potential nil partners
Free isn't the issue. Requiring huge payments for small projects is the issue. Find a way to allow it on a per unit basis. Lots of small doors would open. As for UK, what is their issue? They need the players. Allowing logo use may become required in small markets. It isn't like it actually costs UK anything. Take the bit out of entrepreneurs mouths and let's see what happens.
 
That isn't jmi. That's sponsors being asked to accept a reduced value for money already contractually spent. All Mitch has to do is rework those particular sponsor contracts. He had the perfect opportunity with the stoops extension. He whiffed, again.

This entire issue is easily solved. However it all starts with Mitch being proactive. Not his strong suit, to say the least
The guy who owns the trading card shop (I think it's the one on Romany Rd) called in to KSR and said he had tried to sign Will Levis and some other players to an NIL deal that would include signed pictures wearing their UK uniform. JMI told him it was $250k. He said that would be more than I could make after paying the players and JMI would not lower it to a reasonable rate to help he and the players find an equitable deal. He laid the blame on JMI, as he said Mitch was not involved in the negotiations.
 
The guy who owns the trading card shop (I think it's the one on Romany Rd) called in to KSR and said he had tried to sign Will Levis and some other players to an NIL deal that would include signed pictures wearing their UK uniform. JMI told him it was $250k. He said that would be more than I could make after paying the players and JMI would not lower it to a reasonable rate to help he and the players find an equitable deal. He laid the blame on JMI, as he said Mitch was not involved in the negotiations.
I'm not surprised by that story. UK doesn't own the rights and therefore would not be involved the discussions for what those rights would be sold for. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect JMI is not set up to deal with a bunch of mom and pop shops who want to use the UK logo. They probably feel that the rate they would have to charge to make it economically feasible for mom and pop businesses to buy the rights to use the UK logo is not worth the additional staffing they would have to hire to administer all of those accounts. That's just a guess on my part.
 
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Folks, it's industry standard including NFL. Sorry mj brigade, it's just how it is. It isn't some evil intent.
 
Folks, it's industry standard including NFL. Sorry mj brigade, it's just how it is. It isn't some evil intent.
Not sure what you’re saying but the NFL and the NFLPA have collectively bargained if and how players can use NFL properties.
When you buy an NFL player’s jersey both the NFL and the player get a cut. No such agreement exists between college players and the media rights owners.
One thing you can be sure, rights owners aren’t going to give anything away until they figure out how they can profit from the transactions. @cat_in_the_hat made a good point about the staffing and administration costs involved in dealing with small businesses and individuals.
It may behove college players to unionize or otherwise organize so that media companies and others interested in NIL can negotiate and agree on rates, etc instead of having to deal with players one on one.
 
Not sure what you’re saying but the NFL and the NFLPA have collectively bargained if and how players can use NFL properties.
When you buy an NFL player’s jersey both the NFL and the player get a cut. No such agreement exists between college players and the media rights owners.
One thing you can be sure, rights owners aren’t going to give anything away until they figure out how they can profit from the transactions. @cat_in_the_hat made a good point about the staffing and administration costs involved in dealing with small businesses and individuals.
It may behove college players to unionize or otherwise organize so that media companies and others interested in NIL can negotiate and agree on rates, etc instead of having to deal with players one on one.

You can buy UK player jerseys. That's already a thing. That's an entirely different animal as mentioned above.

Why would it benefit the football or basketball player to share their profits with someone on the bowling team? Or even with a walk on of the same sport?

It doesn't have to be nearly that complicated or anti self interest. All it takes is semi creative thinking from the ad and some ad initiative. Both of which are scarce these days for uk
 
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You can buy UK player jerseys. That's already a thing. That's an entirely different animal as mentioned above.

Why would it benefit the football or basketball player to share their profits with someone on the bowling team? Or even with a walk on of the same sport?

It doesn't have to be nearly that complicated or anti self interest. All it takes is semi creative thinking from the ad and some ad initiative. Both of which are scarce these days for uk
To quote Mark Cuban, would you rather have 100% of a grape or 5% of a watermelon?
It might not benefit the very top players but if a company doesn’t want to deal with a potential of 1000+ athletes between all of the schools they represent the end result may be they deal with zero.
 
To quote Mark Cuban, would you rather have 100% of a grape or 5% of a watermelon?
It might not benefit the very top players but if a company doesn’t want to deal with a potential of 1000+ athletes between all of the schools they represent the end result may be they deal with zero.

Companies have no difficulty dealing with the marketable players or their reps. The nil money flying everywhere proves that.

If you're a swim team, then yes maybe it's advantageous to collectively market. Not sure but it's irrelevant because swim teams aren't as effected because they aren't as marketable
 
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I believe the law that passed the legislature or the executive order signed by Beshear (I can't remember which way it was passed) has certain restrictions on who is able to do NIL deals such as liquor companies, casinos, adult oriented businesses, etc. I could be wrong about that though.
WTF does Beshear or whoever have to do with 2 people engaging in legal activity? Jesus this world keeps getting stranger.
 
It's not "THEIR" uniform.

JMI paid a lot of money to the rights to profit off the logos and the uniforms.

Are we going full anarchy now? Are we throwing out all rules and regulations? Because that's what you're talking about.

Don't like the contract? Break it whenever you want to. Don't like the risks you signed up to take? Just stop doing anything. Don't like your current contract? Just sign a new one with another company and let your former company know only after you've already started the other job....

It's the slippery slope we've been on for decades.

Even someone who so many respect as being an ethical guy, like Tubby Smith, did the very same thing when he left UK. He took a million dollar check from UK after he'd already agreed to terms with Minnesota. Coaches in fact do this all the time. Pro players do this as well.

So we're going to do the same thing even though we know it's wrong ... ?
Yeah. 7-6 is okay with me!!!
We are just UK, what do you expect?
C-A-T-S…

Thanks Mitch
 
I was born in Kentucky and this weekend had the chance to come back and visit. This is outside of Lexington but man the state seems poor. Around the Muhlenberg area and places I had grew up were trashed. Russellville seemed ok and Lewisburg was not bad (seemed to be held together by 1 factory) and maybe I am just on the wrong side but living in TN and it seems the money is rolling through here if you were to compare the 2.
Maybe it is just a lack of money issue. We lived here when the coal mines were thriving, left when most of it closed.
I live 10 min from bowling and Franklin.
These areas are crazy! Houses popping up everywhere. Money flying lol!!!

Bowlinggreen population seems to be increasing, and appears 2 more big factory's are being built..
I believe bowlinggreen will have more D1 prospects,and stoops should really focus on this area along with Nashville!
Bowlingreen/Franklin/Portland down thru Nashville is growing together!
 
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NIL has turned into a money grab. There are only a handful of players annually where the spend is justified. That was the main purpose of NIL. It is now everyone gets NIL money. In that world it becomes impossible to manage. Let’s say a 4 star recruit gets big NIL $$$. A starter get less the starter is leaving or getting paid. Either way the pool of money has to increase.

Money screws up the best people to think giving a lot of money to kids was going to work in a team environment was naive at best. The list of problems goes on forever.
 
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WTF does Beshear or whoever have to do with 2 people engaging in legal activity? Jesus this world keeps getting stranger.
They followed the other laws enacted in other states. Casinos make sense though. If they have a sports book and an athlete signed to an NIL deal, there is a greater risk for at least the look of impropriety. UK already has former players banned for alleged point shaving.
 
I live 10 min from bowling and Franklin.
These areas are crazy! Houses popping up everywhere. Money flying lol!!!

Bowlinggreen population seems to be increasing, and appears 2 more big factory's are being built..
I believe bowlinggreen will have more D1 prospects,and stoops should really focus on this area along with Nashville!
Bowlingreen/Franklin/Portland down thru Nashville is growing together!
I thought someone said that BG had passed Lexington as states second largest city?
 
They followed the other laws enacted in other states. Casinos make sense though. If they have a sports book and an athlete signed to an NIL deal, there is a greater risk for at least the look of impropriety. UK already has former players banned for alleged point shaving.

They didn't need a law at all. I agree partnering with a sports book is unsavory but if teams and stadiums can do it, so should players.

The alcohol thing is straight from Mitch, who consulted on the wording of the initial (unnecessary) executive order.

Our main marketable industries are horse racing and bourbon and athletes can profit from neither. Genius!
 
I believe the law that passed the legislature or the executive order signed by Beshear (I can't remember which way it was passed) has certain restrictions on who is able to do NIL deals such as liquor companies, casinos, adult oriented businesses, etc. I could be wrong about that though.
So you are saying it has nothing to do with JMI or UK, but rather the law in Kentucky.
 
So you are saying it has nothing to do with JMI or UK, but rather the law in Kentucky.
The law prohibits NIL deals for only specific industries such as casinos, liquor, and adult oriented businesses. There might be a few others. All other obstacles are squarely on the shoulders of Mitch and JMI.
 
They didn't need a law at all. I agree partnering with a sports book is unsavory but if teams and stadiums can do it, so should players.

The alcohol thing is straight from Mitch, who consulted on the wording of the initial (unnecessary) executive order.

Our main marketable industries are horse racing and bourbon and athletes can profit from neither. Genius!
They needed the law because other states were implementing laws allowing NIL. Without it, all universities in KY were gonna be left behind. That law is the only reason NIL exists today for UK, UL, etc. It was always expected to be temporary until a federal law governing all universities nationwide was passed.
 
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Not sure that is true.

UK pays 400k of that contract. Sponsors and boosters pay the rest. If they renegotiated that excess pay upwards, that was an opportunity to reset expectations. Could they say no? Absolutely, which would force Mitch to fund the contract in other ways, including potential alcohol sales.

The alternative would be recruiting new nil fund sources through new or existing boosters.

Either option requires more effort from Mitch than is currently given, so we got nothing.
 
They needed the law because other states were implementing laws allowing NIL. Without it, all universities in KY were gonna be left behind. That law is the only reason NIL exists today for UK, UL, etc. It was always expected to be temporary until a federal law governing all universities nationwide was passed.

At the time the executive order was written, the NCAA already agreed to nil. So if nothing was done, there would be actual nil without all the nonsense restrictions.

It was unnecessary and made matters worse. Then the dumba$$ legislature did the same thing.
 
They didn't need a law at all. I agree partnering with a sports book is unsavory but if teams and stadiums can do it, so should players.

The alcohol thing is straight from Mitch, who consulted on the wording of the initial (unnecessary) executive order.

Our main marketable industries are horse racing and bourbon and athletes can profit from neither. Genius!
I can see not allowing 18 year olds to market alcohol but not once you're 21. These are arbitrary limitations and I think a kid, not far down the line, will sue and will win. Can a non-athlete student market a product? If so, the very nature of Kavanaughs comments are being violated.
 
UK pays 400k of that contract. Sponsors and boosters pay the rest. If they renegotiated that excess pay upwards, that was an opportunity to reset expectations. Could they say no? Absolutely, which would force Mitch to fund the contract in other ways, including potential alcohol sales.

The alternative would be recruiting new nil fund sources through new or existing boosters.

Either option requires more effort from Mitch than is currently given, so we got nothing.
I think that is too linear. UK has a contract with those other entities. THAT contract is not reworked every time UK hires a new coach or renegotiates a contract.
 
I can see not allowing 18 year olds to market alcohol but not once you're 21. These are arbitrary limitations and I think a kid, not far down the line, will sue and will win. Can a non-athlete student market a product? If so, the very nature of Kavanaughs comments are being violated.


I do not think that is right. Kavanaugh was speaking from the perspective of monopolies, not state laws. The analysis would likely be different if an athlete sued. The basis of the suit would have to be equal protection or some other constitutional premise. The NCAA did not limit the athlete’s ability to earn. The state evidently did.
 
I think that is too linear. UK has a contract with those other entities. THAT contract is not reworked every time UK hires a new coach or renegotiates a contract.

It does. That's how the total pay increases, because the school doesnt pay any more money than they did before
 
It does. That's how the total pay increases, because the school doesnt pay any more money than they did before
There is no doubt that pay raises come from third-party contracts and arrangements, but that does not mean those deals are reworked each pay raise. For example, JMI’s deal extends beyond Stoops’. I doubt JMI renegotiates its deal with UK each time Mitch and Stoops agree on a raise. If not, the foundations of that aspect of Stoops’ deal does not change. Granted, I am speculating, like others here, because we don’t know.
 
There is no doubt that pay raises come from third-party contracts and arrangements, but that does not mean those deals are reworked each pay raise. For example, JMI’s deal extends beyond Stoops’. I doubt JMI renegotiates its deal with UK each time Mitch and Stoops agree on a raise. If not, the foundations of that aspect of Stoops’ deal does not change. Granted, I am speculating, like others here, because we don’t know.

Agree that jmi agreement almost surely does not get reworked. However when the fund sources are approached about increasing investment, the conversation about expectations can be made.

I also agree that's not likely the most fruitful angle. The much better option is to pursue new nil fund sources.

Instead we get neither
 
I do not think that is right. Kavanaugh was speaking from the perspective of monopolies, not state laws. The analysis would likely be different if an athlete sued. The basis of the suit would have to be equal protection or some other constitutional premise. The NCAA did not limit the athlete’s ability to earn. The state evidently did.
I don't think that would change anything. The State clearly couldn't say they can't make money from NIL so I'm not sure splitting the baby in this way will stand either. Why would an athlete be treated differently?
 
I don't think that would change anything. The State clearly couldn't say they can't make money from NIL so I'm not sure splitting the baby in this way will stand either. Why would an athlete be treated differently?
I am not saying there is no possible foundation for a claim. I just don’t think Kavanaugh’s concurrence would have any role. The state acting is not the NCAA. The state can, as said, limit the age of those who may advertise alcohol and can say athletes competing in games where bets occur cannot advertise for the betting services. I don’t think those two things would be found unlawful.
 
I am not saying there is no possible foundation for a claim. I just don’t think Kavanaugh’s concurrence would have any role. The state acting is not the NCAA. The state can, as said, limit the age of those who may advertise alcohol and can say athletes competing in games where bets occur cannot advertise for the betting services. I don’t think those two things would be found unlawful.
His concurrence doesn't hold any real weight on it's own. It's more of a line in the sand warning.
 
Somebody tell me this NIL isn't going to be the end of CFB and college athletics in general?
Its not, anyone who says it is just being dramatic

Paying for players to come & paying players on the team is as old as CFB. Same schools that used Bagmen to pay for players are now putting that cash through "collectives" and are legal.

Hell fire allegedly WE were dirty in paying players, we can't throw any stones. Football players doing no show up work for UK hospital.
 
I am not saying there is no possible foundation for a claim. I just don’t think Kavanaugh’s concurrence would have any role. The state acting is not the NCAA. The state can, as said, limit the age of those who may advertise alcohol and can say athletes competing in games where bets occur cannot advertise for the betting services. I don’t think those two things would be found unlawful.
Well, the playing field is pretty uneven. It's interesting that the NCAA allows for beer ads, for huge amounts of money and allows schools to sell beer and wine at events, but yet kids are limited in an arbitrary way on being able to endorse these products. It makes no sense. Sure, for alcohol be 21, for gambling or some other adult themed product, be 18 but other than that, I don't see how this can stand.
 
Well, the playing field is pretty uneven. It's interesting that the NCAA allows for beer ads, for huge amounts of money and allows schools to sell beer and wine at events, but yet kids are limited in an arbitrary way on being able to endorse these products. It makes no sense. Sure, for alcohol be 21, for gambling or some other adult themed product, be 18 but other than that, I don't see how this can stand.
I look at it as serving/selling alcohol. The laws state (I think its this way) that you can't sell alcohol until you are 18. You can't serve it until you are 21. I think that is the way it is. I remember in college when I was a waiter that some of our staff couldn't serve alcohol to their tables because they were under the age of 21 but that has been over 20 years ago.
 
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