We weren't going to have a shot if Noel played. We weren't that good with him. I'd say a Sweet 16 was our ceiling and that's pushing it.
I wonder if Cal will trumpet our success in the draft again.
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
If you don't know why Cal says these things then you just are not very intelligent, you know what he is doing.
It's not about the school anymore when it comes to recruiting big time players nowadays. You just cannot overcome this. But it's not changing.
Brian, I don't mind how you view me. My beliefs won't change. As for the length of my fandom, I stood outside memorial overnight in the snow for good seats in Uanuary and February 1983. How about you.
You probably haven't, but you're certainly welcome to say what you please in public (or on a message board).
Don't be offended if someone thinks you're an idiot, though.
I'm not offended at all. Think as you wish. Praise Cal for our draft success while you're at it.
I do praise Cal. Prior to him what did we have? BCG, who didn't put players into the draft. Prior to that what did we have? 1 Championship and 1 FF.
So, what exactly are you complaining about? Fill me in here.
I see you as a long time fan that longs for the days of kids wanting to be here because of the name on the front of the jersey.
That's gone. You don't like it. None of us do.
However, this year proves that once the kids get here, they play for the school, the team, their teammates, and us the fans.
So rejoice in that.
Cal and the kids are doing their best.
So Calipari has had as many Final Four trips as Pitino, Tubby and Gillespie combined in a mere 6 years and you think people who applaud (along with Coach Cal) our tremendous draft success are "part of the problem"?!
Are you really that dense?! The draft success under Calipari is precisely what has given us the tremendous success we have seen in Cal's short 6 year stay thus far. Calipari is doing things here that Pitino couldn't do. Would have Pitino have 2 NCs if he stayed instead of just 1? Would he have won in 98? I'm not so sure as he should have won in 97.
Right now, Calipari is only 2nd to Rupp among the great coaches we have had at Kentucky. He may never get us 4 titles, but if he stayed as long as Rupp did...he just may.
Calipari is THE King of recruiting yet it looks like Coach K is going to get all the "genius" accolades for studying up on Cal and "adapting" to the Cal way.
The goal is for our players to be successful in their chosen profession (basketball). That is the goal of the University of Kentucky for every student. We will win basketball games by developing players to be successful.
This. And let me just add that Coach K had the easiest road to the championship. EASIEST.
Prior to this, he couldn't get the best freshmen on his bench to bring him a championship. This is luck and not actual performance on his part.
I'm complaining about Cals glory on draft day. His constant statements that the players are most important. Tell me, do you view UK's success as more important or the players draft success as more important. I go with UK. Saying one creates the other has yet to really be proven.
They ARE the program, unless you plan on suiting up to play. We cheered for Billy bleeping Gillispie. We'll cheer for whoever the coach is when Cal leaves--that's our role.
If your only satisfaction is titles, it seems reasonable to assume you remember the players who were on the last title team. Remind me where they got drafted. You think Anthony Davis knows who Cotton Nash was? Think MKG was here because he liked Ron Mercer as a kid?
For someone who has been a fan so long, you definitely don't seem to understand how this works. You're entitled to your opinion, and we're entitled to explain to you how and why is is completely inaccurate.
Yeah there is a "middle ground". It's called Lil' Brother, Kansas, Wisconsin, Michigan State etc. If you like the "middle ground" approach there are plenty of programs such as the ones I have mentioned that haven't done nearly as much as UK has the past 6 years. Please feel free to leave BBN and join them. I doubt UK will even notice you left.Originally posted by BigBlueFanGA:
Ah, there we have it. No middle ground. Either you recruit the one and dones or you recruit the bottom of the bucket. I was afraid there was a middle ground.Originally posted by meeksfor3:
Yeah lets go back to recruiting guys who don't get drafted and we still don't win titles or even make final fours. I miss Tubby, Shagari, Sheray, Saul and those guys.
You apparently don't realize it is the reason we get the top players. I suggest you go follow Bellarmine. That way you will feel better about yourself. No one with any common sense agrees with anything you say.
Those young men play hard for the University and their future, not sure why people are not happy for them when they reach their dreams. If our team was full of punks every year you might have a point, but Cal's teams have been full of mature role models for the future generations of Cat fans. Good kids who want to win and busted their ass for a 40-0 season until they just came up short. Appreciate it now, it won't last forever.
4 final 4's in 5 years. Think about that.
4 final 4's in 5 years. Think about that.
I truly believe if Calipari sensed that the majority of BBN had the "championship or bust" mentality that we would be lucky to keep him one more year. I don't even want to think of what type of success (or lack thereof) we would expect when Cal finally leaves. We may be lucky to sniff a Final Four (or maybe even Elite 8) once a decade.
I pray whoever replaces Cal adopts his "succeed and proceed" philosophy. It is the only way to get 5 Star talent consistently. And getting 5 Star talent consistently is the only way to be in the NC hunt consistently year after year.
On one of the biggest stages of the year when young men in high school are watching players get drafted, you don't want our coach to market our product (UK basketball)? Do you see how silly that sounds?
More NBA talent = Best Kentucky teams. At least since 1986 when the SEC became the first conference to add the three point line. 96, 97, 98, 2010, 2012, 2015
Better NBA talent = more NBA draft picks
More NBA draft picks = UK more likely to appeal to top talent
More appeal to top talent = More likely to get top talent
More likely to get top talent = More top talent coming to UK
More top talent coming to UK = More NBA talent
More NBA talent = well I've already gone down this path, you know how it goes...
If you don't like the way Calipari is running things, go be a fan of a D3 school. Those guys never leave early to go pro...
This post was edited on 4/8 10:52 AM by wildcatsboston1984
Exactly! Becoming an NBA player is a chosen career for some of these kids. Just because they're not doctors, lawyers or journalists doesn't mean that they're coming to school for no good reason. They're coming to school to develop their physical skills as a bball player. I can't fault a kid for that.
Plus, they bust their asses more than normal students to achieve this. Up at 6am, train, scrimmage, go to class, eat, back to more scrimmage, working out, go to class, eat, go to sleep -- WASH - RINSE - REPEAT. And then they have to take crap from unreasonable fans who are there to poke/prod them when they screw up, and the idiotic media on top of that, who think about their egos before they think about how much damage they cause a kid.
Tough life.
So, in short, when they make it to the NBA, hell yes they should be praised and praised loudly. Not only for UK's sake, but also their own. They deserve it.
It depends on how you look at it. I personally feel (as a fan) that championships are greater...I doubt anyone would argue that BUT...from a potential 5 Star recruits point of view, Calipari is 100% correct that sending 5, 6 or 7 players to the draft early is greater than championships!
SO...I totally understand where Calipari is coming from. For the record, you only have me beat by 2 or 3 years...I'm 47 and I've seen just about as much Kentucky basketball as you have. Like I said...when I first heard Cal make that statement, I was a little put off admittedly but he has sold me. I still prefer championships to a high number of NBA draftees as a fan but I appreciate that potential 5 Star recruits do not look at it that way.
No, you're really "complaining" about UK's "glory" which is who benefits from the Cal's Players 1st mantra. NBA draft day is a celebration for UK players that put in the work to get our program to 4 Final 4's in 5 years. UK has not had that kind of success since the early Rupp years(48-51).
So when you complain about Cal's recruiting pitch, which is all that the NBA draft day statements he makes are, you are actually complain about getting the very best recruits possible.
Now see how it works?
Unbelievable!!
I hate Duke and Krzyzshitski but I must give the dude his due. He closes the deal when he get to the final four. He has 5 NC for 12 final fours. Like I said I hate the dude but he is one heck of a bench coach which is IMO what it takes to close the deal in the final four when the talent is somewhat equal. Calipari is a great recruiter and motivator but his weakness is in the bench coaching department. Recruiting great talent and motivation can get you to the final four but when you get there and the talent is about equal you must outcoach your opponent. The coaches that can close the deal are great bench coaches. IMO it is still to be decided if Calipari is a great bench coach.
So 4 Final Fours over a 6 year span, 1 NC and 1 Runner-up is not enough proof that "one creates the other"? How many years do you need? 10, 20? How many NCs need to be in this 10 to 20 year span? Someone earlier mentioned that Dean Smith had only 2 NCs through 11 Final Fours...that spanned his entire career! If Cal were to win it last year OR this year, he would have already blown Dean Smith out of the water. Frankly, I think he has already.
Your username suggest you live in Georgia...maybe you would be happier as a Bulldog fan. Not enough NCs...hmmm. Well how about Duke? Wait Coach K is "adapting" by "adopting the Cal way"...you probably don't want that. I guess you are going to have to root for teams that have already come an gone. UK during the Rupp era or UCLA during the Wooden era.
If you want to live in the NOW...Coach Cal is the best there is at giving us the most shots at that all elusive NC! That is reality!
Hate to break it to you but these superstar talents want to go pro. They go to a school that will get them pro and get them as fast as you can. That means Cal will trumpet from the hills on draft day because it all comes back to recruiting. Of course I don't view UK's success through the draft. It's just another feather in the cap. But to get the studs who get UK to the Final Four and chances at the National Title, you have to trumpet the draft. To show recruits what's important. You can complain about a lot of things with Cal from his ego to his bench coaching but I can't get mad about the draft.
^This. I may be wrong but Cal's use of the term, "Players first" is more of a marketing ploy to attract the best players to UK. What player would not want to make millions if they could do so after only one year in college? Moreover, how can anyone argue with Cal's success? Do you want to go back to the last days of Joe B. Hall, Eddie Sutton, the last days of Tubby Smith or the ill fated tenure of Billy Gillispie? How quickly we forget.
After the Gillispie debacle, UK was teetering on the precipice of being nationally irrelevant. Calipari instantly rescued the University of Kentucky basketball program. John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins and Eric Bledsoe did not come to UK because of UK"s storied tradition. They came to UK solely because of John Calipari. Likewise, all of the other top talent that followed Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe came to UK because of Cal. Under Calipari UK has never recruited so much top shelf talent in such a short period of time and it doesn't appear its going to stop as we have the No. 1 ranked recruiting class this year.
I will certainly never complain about Cal trumpeting success in the draft if UK keeps performing like it has since he arrived. What coach has a better overall record of success in college basketball in the last 6 years than John Calipari? These are very special times in UK basketball history. They won't last forever. I hope Cal stays for a very long time.
And that's because you have limited perspective and you don't have to spend weeks on end recruiting.
Cal has the sell the program. If he used the hook that you use - only a national title - his recruiting lines would be limited - as would Duke's, KU's, UNC's, etc. In case you haven't noticed, Duke only advanced to the Elite Eight one time between 2011 and 2014. Did Coach K tell recruits, "we haven't won anything since 2010?"
Cal puts these kids in a position to compete for national titles as a collective, while at the same time preparing them for the NBA like no other coach could dare to dream.
What's wrong with that? It seems you're emotional right now, and have probably forgotten how hard it is just to reach the Final Four, let alone win the national title.
* side note: Duke just won the national title with three kids who will be top 15 picks. I'm not sure where the injustice is in that. They were legit, just like Kentucky. They might have actually beaten Kentucky in the title game based on their talent level. That is to say, Kentucky wasn't the only good team this year.
That statement in 2010 lead to landing the talent over the next two years that won the 2012 NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP. Yet here you are complaining about it and saying it doesn't work.
^This! And frankly, I would love to see Calipari stay at least as long as Rupp. I can dream can't I? With the kind of talent he brings in consistently year after year; I totally believe he could surpass even the great Rupp. He hasn't yet but he could (I believe) if he stayed long enough.
He says he 50+ so he's not a kid and with 3300+ posts I'm pretty sure he's not a troll. He doesn't sound like an idiot...But you left off "self centered jerk with a sense of entitlement"
It's like UK, Cal, the players....owe him titles. Comes across like the Great Santini.
You ever coached at an elite program son? Ever coached in a Final Four? Have you ever put your career in the hands of a bunch of teenagers or asked them to put their careers in yours? Winning it all is hard. Winning it all is damned hard son, it's that simple. Are we clear? ARE WE CLEAR???
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. Son we play in a system where the best team doesn't always with the title, but who's gonna do a better job? You? One of your little internet buddies? John Calipari has a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You whine about a lost title and you curse a Final Four banner. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of apparently not realizing what John Calipari already knows: The lost title this year, while tragic, sometimes happens. and his mis-management of the last five minutes against Wisconsin -- while grotesque and incomprehensible to us all -- sometimes happens.
You don't want the truth cause deep down in places you don't post about on internet boards you WANT John Calipari as our coach, you NEED him as our coach. He uses phrases like "the greatest day in UK's history." He uses these phrases as the backbone of the foundation upon which to build future teams -- YOU USE THEM SO YOU CAN BITCH ABOUT THEM.
John Calipari has neither the time, nor the inclination, to explain himself to a fan who revels and gloats under the blanket of the very success he provides AND THEN QUESTIONS THE MANNER IN WHICH HE PROVIDES IT. He would rather you just said "thank you" and go on your way. Otherwise he suggests you pick up a clipboard and manage your own program, either way, JOHN CALIPARI DOESN'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT THE TOUCH YOU THINK YOU ARE INTERESTED IN[/I].
I think what everyone is doing is taking the OP's statement out of context.
The OP is essentially saying that UK shouldn't measure it's success as a basketball program by who gets drafted after we failed to bring home a title that was clearly "suppose" to be ours. The way to measure a programs success in basketball is by the number of wins and championships.
Yes Cal has brought us a title in three years. Why did we win that 2012 title? Because Jones and Lamb came back. We wouldn't of won that title with out them. Not every player that Cal needs to recruit should be drafted every year. Look at Teague, Lamb and Orton. They're struggling right now. They would have absolutely benefited from staying one more year.
I think what the OP is trying to convey is that he doesn't care for when Cal adds the programs success to draft day after we had the best team in the tournament and "should have" won the title.
The OP is essentially saying that UK shouldn't measure it's success as a basketball program by who gets drafted after we failed to bring home a title that was clearly "suppose" to be ours. The way to measure a programs success in basketball is by the number of wins and championships.
Yes Cal has brought us a title in three years. Why did we win that 2012 title? Because Jones and Lamb came back. We wouldn't of won that title with out them. Not every player that Cal needs to recruit should be drafted every year. Look at Teague, Lamb and Orton. They're struggling right now. They would have absolutely benefited from staying one more year.
I think what the OP is trying to convey is that he doesn't care for when Cal adds the programs success to draft day after we had the best team in the tournament and "should have" won the title.
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