••OFFICIAL KENTUCKY VS GEORGIA GAME THREAD••

[LineSkiCat14]

We are one of the best offenses in the league, but there is a reason for the adage, defense wins championships.

Here's another point about defense.

That adage isn't worth all that much in 2023.. when leagues like the NFL, NBA, and college ball are moving the game to be more offensive-driven. In the 90s you could win by laying out the QB or two-hand checking players.

You can't do that anymore. Defense USED to win championships, it's no longer allowed to now.

 

[The_Answer1313]

You guys are really putting a damper on this post-game erection I still have from this game.. that's all I'm saying.

haha nah hey that was a fun and entertaining game. I love watching this team play regardless of how the last 10 mins went

 

[BC_Wader]

You guys are really putting a damper on this post-game erection I still have from this game.. that's all I'm saying.

Low Z has been fixed lol.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Actually the adage was always BS. At least in college basketball. Just one of the many things people say in sports they just repeat from other people.

Ideally you want to have BOTH. But if u needed to choose one, offense is "slightly" more important in college basketball.

 

[LmdCat]

But are we?

I mean at some point when the defense continues to blow massive leads maybe we are what we are. A top 5 offensive team. A fringe top 50 defensive team. And possibly a 10-15 ranked overall kind of team.

The really good teams don't let up like this. Maybe we'll get better.

I believe Z will help the team bring a much greater defensive effort in he future when he isn't pulling up on rims.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I believe Z will help the team bring a much greater defensive effort in he future when he isn't pulling up on rims.

I agree. I think Big Z is the wildcard here. If he could provide rim protection on the defensive end that we've been missing in the past 5 years, that changes the entire ballgame here.

 

[HenryMuto]

DEF EFF dropped from 59 to 74

 

[The_Answer1313]

KP updated.......we are 4th offense/74th defense

Can we try to get the defense to the 30s........I think that would be key here.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I think the takeaway about the defense in the final 10 min.. is you tell the guys "you checked out fine,, but they almost came back. Let that be a lesson: you don't take your foot off the gas until the game is all but over.. and the game is almost never "all but over"

I'm hoping this was more of a one-off, from a team that knew they were clicking tonight. Work on the on-ball defense in general, work on rebounding.. But I actually liked a lot of our improvements the last few games. Not to mention, we're just getting Ugo and BigZ going and we still are without our BEST defender..

 

[jameslee32]

I agree. I think Big Z is the wildcard here. If he could provide rim protection on the defensive end that we've been missing in the past 5 years, that changes the entire ballgame here.

All 3 bigs also bring interesting but different dynamics to the position.
Big Z can shoot, block and perhaps do it all.
Ugo can block and rebound.
Aaron can shoot and really hustle his ass off out there.

 

[LmdCat]

I agree. I think Big Z is the wildcard here. If he could provide rim protection on the defensive end that we've been missing in the past 5 years, that changes the entire ballgame here.

Maybe he can teach our other two bigs how to play.

 

[yes_takeaside]

If we win it all:

Dillingham = lottery
Sheppard = top 20 pick
Z = top 30 pick
Wagner = top 30 pick
Bradshaw = top 40 pick
Edwards = top 50 pick
Reeves = top 60 pick

First time in history one program produced 7 draft picks.

Shep is not leaving

 

[shaudyshaud]

Here's another point about defense.

That adage isn't worth all that much in 2023.. when leagues like the NFL, NBA, and college ball are moving the game to be more offensive-driven. In the 90s you could win by laying out the QB or two-hand checking players.

You can't do that anymore. Defense USED to win championships, it's no longer allowed to now.

People don’t want to admit it but it’s a lot harder to defend now in this era .

Early 90s how many scoring PGs were there ? Now it’s rare to face a team with a guy who isn’t looking to score .

 

[LmdCat]

All 3 bigs also bring interesting but different dynamics to the position.
Big Z can shoot, block and perhaps do it all.
Ugo can block and rebound.
Aaron can shoot and really hustle his ass off out there.

I don't see how you can keep Z out of the starting lineup, but since starting isn't based on merit who knows. Lol

 

[LmdCat]

If we win it all:

Dillingham = lottery
Sheppard = top 20 pick
Z = top 30 pick
Wagner = top 30 pick
Bradshaw = top 40 pick
Edwards = top 50 pick
Reeves = top 60 pick

First time in history one program produced 7 draft picks.

I agree with everything except for calling Edwards top 50. Currently, he isn't top anything.

 

[The_Answer1313]

People don’t want to admit it but it’s a lot harder to defend now in this era .

Early 90s how many scoring PGs were there ? Now it’s rare to face a team with a guy who isn’t looking to score .

D-1 average in points per possession is nearly 1.07.
Offense has gone wayyyyyy up this season so far.

Definitely something people need to consider when talking about the defense. The landscape is changing. Teams are having a harder time defending.

 

[LmdCat]

Yep. When we played Kansas and lost, our team played with a lot of effort till the end. The result just wasn't a win.

It's human nature to check out up big.

Championship level teams don't check out. They pour it on so there is no doubt about their dominance.

 

[jameslee32]

People don’t want to admit it but it’s a lot harder to defend now in this era .

Early 90s how many scoring PGs were there ? Now it’s rare to face a team with a guy who isn’t looking to score .

Good point.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Championship level teams don't check out. They pour it on so there is no doubt about their dominance.

Name a championship team, any team you want, and I bet I can find a game on their schedule where they mailed it in after the game was all but over.

If for nothing else, there's nothing to gain by continuing to punk a team, not when injuries matter come March. Guess what? We had zero injuries tonight. I'd rather have this, then score 130 just to risk injury and have someone be out.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Championship level teams don't check out. They pour it on so there is no doubt about their dominance.

Yep and this is why margin of victory is a better predictor than just W/L record.

Good teams win ballgames. Great teams win ballgames by massive scorelines.

 

[The_Answer1313]

In 2012, UK outscored it's SEC opponents by .27 points per possession. That was a massive amount.
In 2015, UK outscored it's SEC opponents by .26 points per possession. Again ..........massive.

These things do matter.

 

[UK67KU59]

Championship level teams don't check out. They pour it on so there is no doubt about their dominance.

This is what worries me. We have all the offensive talent in the world but I can see us losing when we aren’t shooting 50/40 splits because we don’t take pride in the defensive end. Would be a shame if we don’t make the final four with the talent on this team. Really we should win it all if we just play defense.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Currently through 5 games we've scored 1.19. 1st in the SEC
We've given up 1.11. 10th in the SEC

It adds up to .08. That's okay. But it really does need to pick up.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

In 2012, UK outscored it's SEC opponents by .27 points per possession. That was a massive amount.
In 2015, UK outscored it's SEC opponents by .26 points per possession. Again ..........massive.

These things do matter.

What is ours now? And also, what was those two teams in mid January?

2015 is such a unicorn team. We basically returned the hottest team of the year prior and then gave them another top recruiting class to fill in the cracks. Cant really compare them to other Cal teams.. he had the team already from day 1. 2012 is kind of similar.. return Miller Lamb and Jones. It was close enough to a core returning.

This year, we return Reeves, Ugo and Thiero (and what do you know, both of them missed a month or more).. it's a brand new team.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

FWIW, we held Georgia, a borderline top50 team.. to 10 points in the first 7 minutes.. and like 22 points in the first 13 minutes. We showed that we can play pretty good defense when we need to. We just have to make sure that the "need to" is enforced by the coaching staff and ingrained in them.

 

[The_Answer1313]

What is ours now? And also, what was those two teams in mid January?

2015 is such a unicorn team. We basically returned the hottest team of the year prior and then gave them another top recruiting class to fill in the cracks. Cant really compare them to other Cal teams.. he had the team already from day 1. 2012 is kind of similar.. return Miller Lamb and Jones. It was close enough to a core returning.

This year, we return Reeves, Ugo and Thiero (and what do you know, both of them missed a month or more).. it's a brand new team.

Yeah that's the thing about all of this. There's still time. It's painfully obvious the defense is the weak link here. Cal knows this. The team knows this. I can't imagine them not getting better. I think it gets better just on the basis of having Big Z available and then when Thiero comes back that can only help as well.

There's been teams that weren't very good on offense and defense suddenly find it.......even in March. Maybe this team just blooms late on that end.

 

[UK67KU59]

In 2012, UK outscored it's SEC opponents by .27 points per possession. That was a massive amount.
In 2015, UK outscored it's SEC opponents by .26 points per possession. Again ..........massive.

These things do matter.

You have to build in a moat so that when things aren’t clicking you can still find a way to win. Only one of those teams came away with the hardware. It’s HARD to win 6 in a row in March and I don’t think our guys understand that or they would be selling out on defense NOW.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Yeah that's the thing about all of this. There's still time. It's painfully obvious the defense is the weak link here. Cal knows this. The team knows this. I can't imagine them not getting better. I think it gets better just on the basis of having Big Z available and then when Thiero comes back that can only help as well.

There's been teams that weren't very good on offense and defense suddenly find it.......even in March. Maybe this team just blooms late on that end.

I'd be curious what sort of level of improvements would go into moving us up.. 10 spots.. 25 spots.. or 50 spots.

Like if Dilly becomes a lockdown defender.. or if Ugo and Ivisic becomes a paint presence.. or we get Thiero back.. or we continue to limit Edwards minutes.. what do those things individually do for our defense? What does some of it together do for our defense.

I would imagine these metrics can be seperated by just a few things. Minute differences. A few possessions here in a game can drop you more (It did tonight, IMO). Like if we just value rebounding, could we go up 15 spots? I think so. I think it's just tightening things up.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I'd be curious what sort of level of improvements would go into moving us up.. 10 spots.. 25 spots.. or 50 spots.

Like if Dilly becomes a lockdown defender.. or if Ugo and Ivisic becomes a paint presence.. or we get Thiero back.. or we continue to limit Edwards minutes.. what do those things individually do for our defense? What does some of it together do for our defense.

I would imagine these metrics can be seperated by just a few things. Minute differences. A few possessions here in a game can drop you more (It did tonight, IMO). Like if we just value rebounding, could we go up 15 spots? I think so. I think it's just tightening things up.

106th in effective FG%
193rd in turnover %
147th in rebounding %
169th in Free Throw Rate

I think honestly if you vastly improve on ANY of those, it moves the needle on defense. We are just painfully D-1 average at all four lol.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Conversely on offense we are:

3rd in effective FG%
4th in turnover%
232nd in rebounding %
226th in getting to the line

If you do one thing really well, you can have a good offense/defense. If u do two things well you can have a great one.

 

[LmdCat]

This is what worries me. We have all the offensive talent in the world but I can see us losing when we aren’t shooting 50/40 splits because we don’t take pride in the defensive end. Would be a shame if we don’t make the final four with the talent on this team. Really we should win it all if we just play defense.

This might be the best shooting team that Kentucky has ever had.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

It's funny (and not) to see how bad we are free throw rate and getting to the line.

I'll chalk that one up to a game like tonight, where we not only DIDNT get home cooking.. the other team got calls on our own floor! Lol.

I've said this about the officiating for years: if you're gonna hold UK down with officiating.. You're only teaching them how to play through it. And lord help you if you don't give us a ton of fouls in the tournament.

I'm a bog believer in that being part of Cals tournament success. We get better calls on neutral courts in the tournament than we get in the SEC.

 

[The_Answer1313]

It's funny (and not) to see how bad we are free throw rate and getting to the line.

I'll chalk that one up to a game like tonight, where we not only DIDNT get home cooking.. the other team got calls on our own floor! Lol.

I've said this about the officiating for years: if you're gonna hold UK down with officiating.. You're only teaching them how to play through it. And lord help you if you don't give us a ton of fouls in the tournament.

I'm a bog believer in that being part of Cals tournament success. We get better calls on neutral courts in the tournament than we get in the SEC.

What is crazy is the complete departure from previous years.

In 2010 and for like the first 8 years of Cal being here, we feasted at the line and we always rebounded on offense. Most years we made more free throws than opponents attempted. But we were always so-so at shooting and turnover prone (especially in the beginning of years). Sometimes our best offense was a miss, a rebound and a put back lol.

Now we don't really rebound and get to the line but we shoot the lights out and don't turn it over. I guess some of this goes hand and hand tho. We take more threes so naturally we are driving less and creating less fouls.

Shows there's multiple ways of doing this.

 

[silentsaregolden2.0]

Only you would make such a statement. It was just a few games ago that I was accused of being too much of a Shep fan. Well, I call it just the way I see it. Shep doesn't play as well as he did early in the season and I have called him out for it. If you don't like it, that is your problem because there is nothing you can do about it.

LOL, ok grade school comeback guy.

 

[LmdCat]

LOL, ok grade school comeback guy.

It is appropriate for the person I am laughing at. How about you go play with yourself. If you are lucky, you might make a friend.

 

[The_Answer1313]

The other thing about tonight is coming into this game UGA has absolutely feasted at the line.

It seems so obvious but it's really mind blowing to me u look at the numbers and the games really do play out exactly like they should have. A good team at getting to the line continues to get to the line.......Texas AM rebounds like crazy and sure enough they pull down a bunch of them vs us.

You obviously get your games where teams are off but it's crazy to me how often things just play out as the figures suggest they would

 

[silentsaregolden2.0]

It is appropriate for the person I am laughing at. How about you go play with yourself. If you are lucky, you might make a friend.

Dude, I have never interacted with you on this board. I gave you a very mild response to your posts and you take it there. You have issues dude.

 

[GermantownDawg]

Y’all’s game threads are second to none. Really enjoy y’all’s fan base. Knowledgeable and passionate. I totally understand the frustration with the foul disparity/technicals/flagrants, etc. It did seem one sided. Think there’s a legit gripe there. We do get to the line at a pretty clip most games, so we will likely shoot more free throws than just about everyone. This was not a game. Kentucky literally stopped playing the game of basketball with seven minutes to go and were never threatened. As a Georgia fan, I was glad to see our guys keep pushing, but today showed how big of a talent differential there still is. The length, skill, cohesiveness, especially on offense for y’all is wild. I was hoping for a cover today, but was hoping it would be like a 4-6 point game with 4 to go and maybe y’all hit a couple shots down the line to win by 10 kind of thing. We made it closer in the box score, but it was an ass kicking. Appreciate y’all letting me drop by around this time of year. Hope that never changes.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

KP updated.......we are 4th offense/74th defense

Can we try to get the defense to the 30s........I think that would be key here.

KP doesn’t count offensive rebounds as a possession so his numbers are seriously flawed.

 

[The_Answer1313]

KP doesn’t count offensive rebounds as a possession so his numbers are seriously flawed.

That's not a flaw.

Most systems do it that way. The only data I've ever seen count a miss shot, rebound, shot as two possessions is data from Synergy.

A made 2 pt shot is 2 points per possession
A missed shot, rebound, and put back is still 2 points per possession.

I don't think that's a flawed way of looking at things at all.