Who was the biggest cheater, Dean Smith or John Wooden?
- Thread starter Alumni Gym
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@Alumni Gym
He did tell Doherty not to change anything, and Roy Williams has been adamant about **everything** and he even said "I mean everything" I Learned about coaching at UNC came from dean smith".
To this day I think he's trying to let everyone know he's not the designer but the next in line of the Smyth way.
He did tell Doherty not to change anything, and Roy Williams has been adamant about **everything** and he even said "I mean everything" I Learned about coaching at UNC came from dean smith".
To this day I think he's trying to let everyone know he's not the designer but the next in line of the Smyth way.
Hard call to make. People said that Wooden didn't directly know what was going on, but he knew that Gilbert was giving to the players. He turned his head and said, "I don't want to know what is going on." Did that make him less guilty? Absolutely not. In fact, it made him a hypocrite, as well as a cheat. I think that the irony is that the media has made them both look like they should be on the Mt Rushmore of coaches, when their success was only possible by cheating.
Hi General Bland. I wish you PEACE my brother. We love our TAR HEELS.
!!!!!!!!!!!! GO ROY & STAFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What possible purpose is served by starting a thread like this to question the integrity of 2 deceased men? Don't we have better things to do?
Uh... no? This is a basketball message board. They were basketball coaches. The two biggest cheating basketball coaches in history. UNC is currently awaiting penalties for the largest cheating scandal in NCAA history.
What do you expect us to talk about, Murray State women's field hockey?
What do you expect us to talk about, Murray State women's field hockey?
LOL! You got 1 thing right. North Carolina is awaiting penalties for a cheating scandal, and I hope they fry for it. They should. But Dean Smith retired 18 years ago. I can't stand North Carolina, but I don't believe for 1 moment that Dean Smith and John Wooden were the 2 cheatingest basketball coaches in history. In my opinion, Roy is the cheatingist basketball coach without question, followed by Kelvin Sampson, Frank Haith, Bruce Pearl, Jim Harrick. Evidence shows that all those guys are or were big cheaters. Lots of cheaters out there, Jim Boeheim, Ned Fowler, Lefty Driesell, Bobby Cremins, Donnie Tyndall. Smith and Wooden weren't choir boys, but don't confuse their success with a pattern of hard core cheating when they are dead and there is no real evidence to prove anything you are saying. And if you are going to blame Roy's cheating on Dean Smith, prove it. Roy is a monster.
No evidence they cheated? That's laughable.
Ever heard of AFAM? Dean started it, and multiple numbers of his players majored in it.
Ever heard of Sam Gilbert? He payed UCLA players for over a decade (including buying the players cars and getting them call girls).
And being dead sure hasn't kept Adolph Rupp from criticism, all of it unfair at that.
Meanwhile, Dean Smith was universially applauded when he broke Rupp's record, and looked upon as a saint ever since. And Wooden is looked upon as if he were second coming of Jesus, all the while people forget that all of his success after 1966 could be linked to one man, Sam Gilbert.
I'm sorry, but if can't see the evidence here, go cry me a river elsewhere.
Ever heard of AFAM? Dean started it, and multiple numbers of his players majored in it.
Ever heard of Sam Gilbert? He payed UCLA players for over a decade (including buying the players cars and getting them call girls).
And being dead sure hasn't kept Adolph Rupp from criticism, all of it unfair at that.
Meanwhile, Dean Smith was universially applauded when he broke Rupp's record, and looked upon as a saint ever since. And Wooden is looked upon as if he were second coming of Jesus, all the while people forget that all of his success after 1966 could be linked to one man, Sam Gilbert.
I'm sorry, but if can't see the evidence here, go cry me a river elsewhere.
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And the hypocrite moron returns!
People loved Jim Jones, too. But in the end, the Kool Aid they were drinking killed them.
Wooden DID know what was going on - see multiple player quotes - still a great coach, but seems to get a pass from the media. Different times.
I won't speak about Wooden but I didn't know Smith had any integrity to question?
wooden. all dean smith did was just cheat on grades. wooden on the other hand allowed booster sam gikbert free rein into the program.gilbert payed for off campus apartments cars and all kinds crap and the ncaa did nothing then busted them years later when wooden was gone. the ncaa had to protect wooden at all cost which makes me sick.
That makes me think about a certain Koach that the NCAA is currently slurping.
I truly wish that Adolph Rupp could say something about all of this. He would kick ass, and take names.
SMILE..
!!!!!!!!!!!! GO ROY & STAFF !!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just hope your sorry hypocritic ass is smiling when your precious cheating Cheat Heels go on probation. And by the way, if there is a definition of a stupid troll (one who can only say one thing over and over like an idiot) it's you.
Now, you have a blessed day in your world of cheating, law-breaking, and fraud.
Hi Alumni Gym. My brother why do you find a need to respond to a post as you did. Apparently you have a free will to do as you please. I really want to wish PEACE within your SPIRIT AND to find happiness within yourself.
!!!!!!!!!!!! GO ROY & STAFF !!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh' lookee, the CLOWN is back! Tell your hero, Huckleberry Hound Roy that Hell is coming to breakfast, and I helped to bring it there.
HA! HA!
So SMILE!!!!!!! You are a fool and a troll that supports a school and a program that CHEATS, LIES, COVERS-UP, COMMITS FRAUD, BREAKS THE LAW, TRIES TO DISCREDIT ANYONE WHO TRIES TO CALL YOU OUT ON IT, ALL ALONG BEING A COLLECTIVE GROUP OF HYPOCRITES FOR DECADES.
Congrats!
Glad you are so proud. So was Lucifer.
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The most surreal post I have seen in my years on Rivals. You do know most people would say Cal? At least they say he's been caught the most. Not that I agree with that, but funny you would go down that road.
Honest question: Can you explain why "most" people are clueless on the depth of cheating at UNC?
As for Cal, I have seen numerous posts by other fans about how Cal had tried to cheat by recruiting Kanter, a professional. The insinuation is that Cal tried to sneak a pro on to a college team and the NCAA caught him red-handed. There is NO way to even try and argue with an idiot who honestly thinks that.
I think UNC gets a pass by many fans because Smith was
so beloved and never got caught. Sam Gilbert was the worst IMHO. But cmon, Coach Cal is not beyond reproach in this issue -- by a long shot.
We are dealing with facts, facts, facts. Perception has nothing to do with it except for some irrational rival fans. And, for the record, I have read the NCAA reports on both Rose and on Camby. If we assume the worse in regards to Cal, it still pales in comparison to what Dean Smyth did.
Your insinuations are getting a bit old and worn out. I am not sure why you came on a Cat board to throw stones. Keep in mind the UNC fans did that for years and now they are getting their comeuppance.
BTW, Smith gets a pass because the media and PR made him out to be something he never was. Read the stories in the media and then think for yourself. A lot of the crap doesn't make sense. Explain to me how Parrish, for example, can claim that Dean is responsible for integrating the ACC? He was kinda late to that party.
I don't disagree about Dean -- but that was not the question you posed? You asked WHY he gets a pass and i gave you my thoughts. What insinuations are you talking about? It is more than ironic that UK starts a thread about who cheats the most. Be objective.
On December 2, 1964 the University of Maryland played against Loyola, a guy named Billy Jones stepped onto that court for the Maryland Terrapins and thus became the first African-American player in the history of the ACC. Not long after in 1965, C.B. Claiborne joined the Duke Basketball team under Coach Vic Bubas and became the first African-American player on an ACC team in North Carolina. Charlie Scott came after that, but somehow an urban legend has grown into Charlie Scott and Dean Smith being the ones to break the ACC'S color barrier. Ummm, NO, Charlie Scott broke UNC'S racial barrier, not the ACC'S. I could give the benefit of the doubt and suggest that maybe because Scott was such a great player that that is what caused some overshadowing of Jones and Claiborne but unfortunately I think a lot of the misinformation has been intentionally done to inflate Dean's legacy as opposed to Scott overshadowing the others because of his great career. There is no question Dean did a lot of things to challenge the status quo on racial injustice and he deserves some plaudits for that but Charlie Scott was not the ACC'S first African American player and nor was he even the first in the state of North Carlina.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...ina-coach-dean-smith-was-champion-integration
I came across this article and was struck by how blatant it was as an example of trying to defile Rupp and Kentucky while praising Smith. Why can't they just praise Smith and leave Rupp out of it?
EXCERPT: "On that March 1997 day he supplanted Adolph Rupp as the most prolific major college winner of them all, Dean Smith would not accept any credit for his role in integrating what had been a white man's domain. This was the coach of the North Carolina Tar Heels, after all. He always believed in passing the ball.
North Carolina defeated a Colorado team coached by a black man, Ricardo Patton, on the record-breaking day in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, to advance to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament. I asked Patton that day if he felt the way Nolan Richardson felt about Rupp's place in history ("I'll sleep much better knowing Dean's the man," the Arkansas coach had said) and if he thought it was fitting a progressive thinker like Smith was the one to knock out the Kentucky coach who preferred to keep his sport as segregated as Old South water fountains and schools.
"Adolph Rupp was only the most famous of those guys," Patton responded. "There were a lot of coaches who felt like him back then."
Of course, Smith passed on the opportunities given him to criticize Rupp and the colleagues who shared his prehistoric beliefs; he was never one to revel in another man's flaws. Smith was a blind believer in the human spirit, moving his protégé, North Carolina coach Roy Williams, to say in a statement Sunday that his mentor's "concern for people will be the legacy I will remember most."
It's no wonder Kentucky fans get so infuriated at the media with the moth eaten criticism of Rupp which apparently is a requirement when praising Dean on anything race related. There is simply not a lot out there to condemn Rupp on this issue as Jon Scott has pointed out in the past.http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/ruppmythlegend_frame.html
Another EXCERPT: "In 1966, Scott became North Carolina's first African-American scholarship player and one of the first black athletes to sign at a major school south of the Mason-Dixon line."
One of the first to sign at a major school in the South? yea, like how about the one 8 miles away in Durham who signed before Charlie Scott? (C.B. Claiborne)
![[eyeroll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/rolleye/rolleye0011.r191677.gif "Eye roll [eyeroll]")
I am objective. You obviously aren't. BTW, this thread wasn't started by UK. It was started by UK fans. There is no reason why it can't be discussed.
I got a speeding ticket two week ago. BTW, your logic, I should not say anything about the CEO of the peanut company who just got 28 years.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
I am objective. You obviously aren't. BTW, this thread wasn't started by UK. It was started by UK fans. There is no reason why it can't be discussed.
I got a speeding ticket two week ago. BTW, your logic, I should not say anything about the CEO of the peanut company who just got 28 years.
Kentucky has actually never been proven to "cheat." In both the early 1950's and late 1980's, there was little to no evidence that UK was involved in either one of the probations. Both situations were treated in a very unfair manner by the NCAA and the media. In some cases, especially with Chris Mills, Eric Manuel, or Bill Spivey, there was no concrete evidence at all, just hearsay or outright lies. And yet, Kentucky took severe punishment in both of these cases, which they volunteered to do. Meanwhile, all the time, the NCAA turned a blind eye to what John Wooden or Dean Smith were doing, or allowing to go on.
Kentucky is BY FAR, not school in country that has cheated the most. Far from it. And when we "maybe" did, we sure as hell paid dearly for it. It's due time that the enormous cheaters are called out and punished for what THEY WERE PROVEN TO BE DOING. It's time they be punished by the NCAA, the law, the media, and by public opinion. And I will never stop talking about this until I see it happen.
Dean Smith.
I don't remember seeing anything about UCLA not making the kids go to classes, or entire departments cheating to keep kids eligible, or entire administrations and athletic departments getting fired because of Wooden.
So yeah... Dean Smith. Guy couldn't win, saw Duke win a couple, and then all those light blue cheats panicked and hit the nuclear option.
I don't remember seeing anything about UCLA not making the kids go to classes, or entire departments cheating to keep kids eligible, or entire administrations and athletic departments getting fired because of Wooden.
So yeah... Dean Smith. Guy couldn't win, saw Duke win a couple, and then all those light blue cheats panicked and hit the nuclear option.
Neither Smith nor Wooden were charged with anything, just like Cal. They couldn't be cheaters if they were not charged with anything, could they?
Are you really really really THAT uninformed or does stupidity just run in the family? Seriously, dude, did you think about what you were writing or are you 12 years old?
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