Who is the best point guard in the SEC?
- Thread starter Friedas_Boss
- Start date
So you criticize people who don't know who Wade Baldwin is but you don't know who Jamal Murray is?
It takes a special kind of idiot to fill your shoes.
This. From what I've seen, Newman's style of play appears to be entirely that of a shooting guard, not a point. Maybe he'll get listed at point but that doesn't necessarily mean that's really what he is.
I'd think the best true point in the SEC, at least at the season's outset, has to be Tyler Ulis.
I watched several of UK's games last year and never saw him play. If he was so good, why couldn't he even get on the court.
FYI, Wade Baldwin IV did play last year.
My goodness. You might have seen him dropping 30 at the Nike Hoops Summit.
Or almost single-handedly knocking off the US in the Pan Am Games.
Student of the game that you are.
Btw, Baldwin is a nice player. However, if he had Ulis' skill set WB4 would be a top 5 pick.
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
I am not a student of the game, I'm a college basketball fan. Honestly, I think it's weird to follow high school kids so closely, but understand why you do. I just don't have the time / interest to do so. I will, however, evaluate this kid when he begins to play against other college players in college basketball games. That's the only way I know how to do it.
As for your point about WB4 having Ulis' skillset, I think I understand your point. Ulis has to be extra good at everything because he is so short, and I agree that he does that. WB4 has such a height advantage, that he doesn't have to be as quick as Ulis has to be.
I have been told by people who would know that WB4 is an NBA player, the question is how long does he stay. Hopefully it's all four years, but I will never begrudge a man for trying to better his life or put himself in a position to better his family.
I know Supafuzz, I was trying to say that I am a college hoops fan, not a Nike Camp fan. I don't have time for that stuff, but I do love college basketball.
His projections will change as he is new to the radar. He really didn't start coming on until after January. Fun kid to watch and I would image he will have a few triple doubles while at VU, or at least get real close.
Murray will be a top 3-4 pick playing the 2/3,, he's a 1/2.. Ulis, if was 6'+ would be a top 3-4 pick.. That should tell you how good they are..
I think it's weird to hang out on a rival fan message board.
And you wouldn't have to "follow high school kids closely" to know who Jamal Murray is. Just turn on the tv.
For that matter, he was playing against grown men in the Pan Am games. Maybe they should have felt weird about that.
Anyway, I can certainly understand why a Vandy fan would pay no attention to recruiting. Admittedly, your world class whiner of a coach does a decent job finding diamonds in the rough. That's why you guys are always a threat to make the tournament.
Totally agree about Ulis' height. If he were not a shorty, he'd already be in the NBA. It will be fun to watch his career shake out and to see if he can beat the odds.
As for Murray, I'll be able to tell ya real quick if he's a 1, a 2 or a combo guard that is better suited at one or the other. At the one, can you run the offense and can you defend. At the two, can you spray!
Yeah, he got close last year during an NIT game where he registered his first and only double - double of his career.
You might want to go back and look at how he did playing against other good teams in the SEC with good guard play (UK, Florida, Arkansas). He struggled.
He definitely did struggle at times last year as a true freshman playing against tough competition. As the season progressed, he began understanding concepts and just playing basketball instead of thinking so much. Towards the end of the season, he became an animal and ran the offense well, was the leader and started to put some numbers up.
Also, that was last season and I have a friend who plays a lot of pick up games with the current team and he just raves about WB4 and his improvement.
Hate all you want, unless you are an objective fan, I expect that, but if you like hoops, you'll enjoy watching Baldwin play this year. He's special.
Because you're either an elite troll, carrying the weight of disappointment you felt when you got wait-listed at Duke and outright rejected from the Ivy's, thereby settling for Vandy (or worse, you're a Belmont/Lipscomb boy that horse flied Vandy parties).
Or you're a jock sniffer and have never touched a basketball in your life. Maybe it's both, I don't really know. I suspect you're Crazy_VU_fan or whatever and you're just getting your jollies by trying to convince Kentucky fans that a group of future actuaries will matter in college basketball (spoiler alert: they won't).
Not hating, chief. I consider myself to be one of the more objective UK fans that you'll ever meet. You came on a UK board and tried to tell us that a kid that came to Vandy outside the Top 100 could be considered better than Tyler Ulis (I won't even include Murray or Briscoe), Malik Newman, or PJ Dozier. I'm merely pointing out that your bias has made you overlook what is fairly obvious. He's a good player, but one who struggles against elite talent because he likely doesn't have the physical tools or skill to stay with or outplay them. Rankings are not infallible, but they are generally are pretty solid assessments. And judging by the fact that he played at the same HS as Karl Towns, I doubt the "radar" missed him.
I have little doubt he will get better, and he may end up being better than a lot of kids that are pretty good and were ranked higher than him: Kasey Hill, Alex Caruso. But, that doesn't mean he's in the ballpark of "best".
You're not that objective if you rely on recruiting rankings at this point.
This is more, wait and see based on people in the know who are watching, than it is look at what he's done. He shared minutes with another 4 star (Sheldon Mitchell) last year and as mentioned, struggled at times, but by year's end, he was blossoming.
He's definitely in the ballpark of best, whether you will acknowledge that or not doesn't change anything.
If you are saying that because Wade's high school ranking wasn't that high, he won't play in the NBA, be drafted or have an All SEC career, you need to reevaluate your thought process, because it's flawed.
Once the games get rolling, you'll have some data and we can really evaluate at that point. From what I am hearing, it's going to be a fun year.
Speaking of PJ Dozier.. Camron Justice outplayed him last year and beat his team in some tournament down in South Carolina I think it was..
It's great you come to a UK board (again) to get acceptance. No one cares about Vandy.
ah ha. I make a stupid post to get attention, ah ha, i play devils advocate, ah ha no one still takes Vandy seriously.
Vandy's standards are pretty low (hence this thread), so I agree, It will be a fun year for you guys.
I'm not relying on recruiting rankings. I merely referenced them to support what the empirical evidence is illustrating.
You, on the other hand, have supported your assertion with heresy from sources you can't even identify.
True.
Can't wait until the games start. Unless you watched his last 10 games or so last year, I can see why you would struggle acknowledging how good WB4 is.
In the meantime, a bunch of UK fans learned about one of the top 2 or 3 point guards in the SEC.
Very true. Can't wait.
Have 4 season tickets this year, so the kids get to go too!
I'll learn about him on national tv. Oh wait. Does Vandy play on national tv.
All this is kidding, I hope you do well with your season. Maybe you'll add to the SEC teams in the sweet 16, if Kevin doesn't mess it up.
Maybe a more meaning full question would be, "can W. B. IV play defense as well as Ulis does?" A top point guard must play defense.
Exactly, this should all be in good fun.
As for national tv, most of our games will be on National TV.
Maui Invitational will be fun. Hope we get ST Johns, Indiana then Kansas in the finals.
Kentucky fans know who your player is. Kentucky fans just aren't impressed by a guy who would be no better than the 6th best PG of the Calipari era at best as you are. Is he an NBA prospect? Of course he could be/is. Victor Oladipo was ranked 54th at his position before college. He ended up being a 1st rounder. Not everyone can be an elite recruit. Let's see how he does this year against the likes of Briscoe, Murray, Ulis, Caruso, Newman, Hill, and others now that know he's in more of the spotlight.
No way would I trade Ulis for Baldwin, but I'd say he is a top 15-20 pg in the country. Vandy looks very good on paper this year, still I think they'll have problems against real athletic teams. It should be a good game at their place.
