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Was Cal right about Perry and maybe Noah?

Just because Perry and Noah may not fit Cal's top agenda, doesn't mean they can't be good college players.

It is kinda odd that between the two, most would say Noah might be the better high level college player. Guess which one Cal passed on...
Exactly
 
Will Perry ever get the lateral speed needed to guard SEC players? I am afraid he will always be a defensive liability
 
Just because Perry and Noah may not fit Cal's top agenda, doesn't mean they can't be good college players.

It is kinda odd that between the two, most would say Noah might be the better high level college player. Guess which one Cal passed on...
Absolutely good point on the Cal passing on Noah angle.

Personally I think a lot of UK fans remember the success that great shooters could have in the college game, even if they were severely limited from a length/athleticism standpoint.

I know a lot of UK fans follow college basketball to an insane degree. Who are we seeing this year around the country that compare to Perry/Noah from a length and athleticism standpoint having great success? Can be super seniors for that matter, not just freshmen.

To me so many kids are growing up shooting 3s, even the taller more athletic kids, that the sniper athletically limited guys just struggle to make a MAJOR impact these days.
 
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These are true freshmen. It used to be that guys like this weren’t expected to really shine until midway through second year.

I think they’ve done ok. They’re role players.
Yeah, our fans have been spoiled. Noah and Perry will shine by the time they are juniors. They are just not ready to be the leaders at this level right now.
 
That’s my worry, he can’t improve on his athletic weakness that much. His height will always be a detriment in this conference too. I feel like Noah has a frame that he could build on to defend someone on the court well enough in the future. Maybe Perry keeps getting better and becomes like a mini Travis Ford. They are great guys to stockpile in the 8-12 range players on a team. You won’t find many guys with talent who will willingly be the 10th man a couple years.
All you said is exactly where I am on both these guys. I'm still higher on Noah right now and the off season in the weight room and working on defense could be great for him. I agree on Perry lacking size and athleticism for the SEC.
 
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I heard the same sentiment regarding Perry that the OP expressed.
Disappointed based on the fact that he's the states all time leading scorer and state champion.
This state has shown time and again that you don't have to be anything near a five star to dominate KY HS basketball.
Travis started playing varsity at a younger age than most and also was very fortunate to have two other Div.1 signees as classmates.
Very rare for such a small school.
 
Neither will be able to compete in the SEC or atleast make their team competitive. Both should be recruited over every season bc they are back up mop up guys. Perry will never be able to guard 1 on 1 in the league
 
Travis Perry was ranked the 76th player in the country out of HS. The only other perimeter players we have had with a similar ranking over the past 20 years are Dontaie Allen (68th) and Jemarl Baker (82nd). I think your expectations were slightly high for immediate impact with Travis.

As for Noah, he was ranked 144 in HS. Anything he gives us this year should be looked at a positive.

Neither of these guys would have been counted on this year for anything other than spot minutes had we had a healthy Kerr, Carr, Robinson and Butler.

But, these are good guys to have if they stay with UK. While there is a chance they might not be stars here, they have the ability to be really key rotation players that provide consistency with the roster.
Excellent comments on this.
 
Perry is playing out of position. Put him in a position to move without the ball and utilize screens, and not be depended on to initiate offense, and he will be a deadeye shooter off the bench who will really help us.
I agree with this 1000%, having seen him play several times last year. He's an off-guard, primarily.
The only thing I wonder about is ... can we reasonably expect him to be a spot-up shooter at his height ??
I know it's a big generalization, but players his size usually are placed at PG to allow for taller 2-guards to join them.
Just thinking out loud ...
?????
 
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I'm thrilled to have them both. They will both be valuable parts to the team eventually.

If you recall, they weren't getting much playing time at all until they were forced to get playing time due to all of the injuries. Given the situation; they done well and I expect both of them to keep getting better!
 
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Neither will be able to compete in the SEC or atleast make their team competitive. Both should be recruited over every season bc they are back up mop up guys. Perry will never be able to guard 1 on 1 in the league
I think you're wrong about Noah, respectfully. I think he has the size and motor to be a fine SEC player as a junior and senior. I see some Padgett about him. Noah may never be a starter at Kentucky, but I can see him being a great 6 or 7th guy on a really good team. He's not great at anything, but he'll bang, normally hits some shots, nice IQ, and has a good motor. You want all of that for a bench/role guy.
 
Our frosh need to hit the weight room hard during the off season. Especially Perry and Noah. They still have baby fat! All 3 can be much better next season by getting stronger, quicker and by knowing their roles in the system, without thinking so much.
 
I think you're wrong about Noah, respectfully. I think he has the size and motor to be a fine SEC player as a junior and senior. I see some Padgett about him. Noah may never be a starter at Kentucky, but I can see him being a great 6 or 7th guy on a really good team. He's not great at anything, but he'll bang, normally hits some shots, nice IQ, and has a good motor. You want all of that for a bench/role guy.
No no. These guys have it all figured out. I
mean Steve Nash only started 5 games at Santa Clara his freshman year and averaged 8 points. He never amounted to anything.
 
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Not sure about Perry, he seems very slow footed and can't come close to staying with his man on defense. Not sure he can improve that very much. I have more confidence in Noah being a 4 year guy who will contribute off the bench pretty well maybe his final 2 years. Solid depth guy.
Agree. With the type of guards in the SEC I fear Perry will get abused defensively every year. He will only be able to make minimal improvements in his quickness and lateral movements.
 
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Although he played a different position and was part of talented rosters, Derek Willis' career progression in minutes were:
14 games, 39 minutes
19 games, 75 minutes
32 games, 596 minutes
38 games, 833 minutes

Accordingly, I hope both Perry and Noah show the same progression throughout their careers as Wildcats.
 
They weren't brought here to be high mins guys initally and probably not until they were a jr or sr. Injuries have forced them to play and therefore they look more exposed than they would have otherwise. Upperclassman Perry and Noah is exactly what every team needs imo.
 
I am not beating up on Perry and Noah has shown some overall skills. However, I will admit I am so disappointed in Perry. This is the historic leading scorer in Kentucky High School basketball history. Won the preseason 3 point contest. In fact, there were several experts (not people here) on Youtube and other media saying he was a real talent. He also seemed slightly better in offense that Reed which made it ever more exciting a prospect to see. I don't know if it is psychological or he just isn't aggressive or is simply not at the level expected but it is hard to debate he is no Reed Sheppard or outstanding compared with many other Freshman for other teams.

Noah I think has done a little better but is he better than other Freshman for other teams? You can't have players who are not better than their opponents and expect to win.

I know many here, perhaps including me, hope they will develop. But, in the world of college basketball in today's game you have to have players who impact if you want to win. Perry, Noah, and Chandler the highest rated of the 3) are certainly not striking fear or causing coaches to come up with a game plan to stop them.

We knew already that Cal would not have recruited either Kentucky player other than if forced to have Perry to sit on the bench. I am no Cal fan any longer but was he right in this one?

You (uk78) usually make better posts than this ^.

I am disappointed that there are still fans expecting every FR to be a OAD elite level talent. Those are rare! The majority of UK fans had realistic expectations of both Perry and Noah, that they probably would not be ready to contribute as FR, possibly not even as Sophs but maybe then, but would their final 2 years.

Are there things both need to work on? Yes, of course. But honestly, both have shown me a little more than I expected.
They are shooting almost 37% combined from 3 (26-71).
Perry clearly lacks quickness. That is a tough thing to improve, but I do think he can improve it some. He also hasn't shown yet an ability to get many assists, although that looks less critical for the PG in Pope's offense. His TO rate (1 every 15min) is pretty low.
Noah has been the better shooter of the 2, but he has been more selective too (shooting less). And even though his rebounding rate is just "ok" (5.4 per30min), he seems to get timely ones and do better on the offensive glass than the defensive glass. And even though not a primary ballhandler like Perry, his TO rate (1 every 30min) is very good.

IMO, Perry has surpassed what Ritchie did as a FR (and maybe as a SOPH). Is he performing like Reed? No. But that performance last year was a shock to us all, probably even Reed and his parents too.

None of these 3 FR were expected to contribute much this year. And they weren't going to be asked/expected to (contribute much) before injuries set in. They were brought in to be the 10th-12th men. What team's 10th-12th men are "striking fear" or "causing coaches to game plan for them"? NONE!!! Not at Auburn, or Duke or anywhere else.
Before the Poythress injury, who was the 10th-12th men on the 2015 team? Lee, Hawkins & Willis. On the 2012 team? 3 walkons.
Impact players in the NEW Transfer Portal and NIL world, for most teams come from transfers and some returning players. Also keep in mind that for the last 4 years there have been all of these 5th year players playing, which means more good older players, thus less opportunities for FR. Go look at any year top 25 incoming FR and their FR stats. Only about 10 of the top 25 typically average 10+ ppg.
 
Was Cal right on
Joey Hart
Jordan Burks
Even Bradshaw Fr year was forgettable

Then
Lance Ware
Damion Collins
Was Chris Livingston much to right home about?

Then
Dontai Allen

Then
Brandon Boston
Devin Askew

Then
Khalil Whitney

Then
Jermayl Baker
EJ Montgomery was mostly unplayable as a Fr

Then
Tai Wyndard
Sacha Killeya Jones

The point is....if you brought in Perry/Noah to play 1-2 years...then sure it was a mistake to bring in those kids. But if you're end goal is mix and match them over 3-4 years as role players and maybe starters at end with more athletic players....I'd argue we don't know that answer yet but at this point they look like they can contribute to those squads.

So to answer your question, yes Cal was right to not recruit Noah for his complete roster turnover model (and all he ever did was play his top 7-8 guys and ) never cared to develop multi year players. But in the end, was Cal winning with his model?
 
Was Cal right on
Joey Hart
Jordan Burks
Even Bradshaw Fr year was forgettable

Then
Lance Ware
Damion Collins
Was Chris Livingston much to right home about?

Then
Dontai Allen

Then
Brandon Boston
Devin Askew

Then
Khalil Whitney

Then
Jermayl Baker
EJ Montgomery was mostly unplayable as a Fr

Then
Tai Wyndard
Sacha Killeya Jones

The point is....if you brought in Perry/Noah to play 1-2 years...then sure it was a mistake to bring in those kids. But if you're end goal is mix and match them over 3-4 years as role players and maybe starters at end with more athletic players....I'd argue we don't know that answer yet but at this point they look like they can contribute to those squads.

So to answer your question, yes Cal was right to not recruit Noah for his complete roster turnover model (and all he ever did was play his top 7-8 guys and ) never cared to develop multi year players. But in the end, was Cal winning with his model?


Agree. In Pope's system, we will have more 3/4 year guys, and Perry and Noah were definitely not going to be counted on this year in the absence of injuries. I've been pleasantly surprised with their contributions as they've been thrust into playing SEC minutes.
 
Both of them have exceeded my expectations this year. I, nor Pope, nor anyone else expected them to play much at all. Perry has even had to start some. I'll tell you what, both of these guys are the types of players that have knocked Cal's Kentucky teams out of the tournament for the last few years. It's not about the *s next to their names or draft position. It's about how far you go in March. I wouldn't trade this year so far for Kentucky's last five.
 
Stop comparing him to Reed Sheppard. That's an unfair thing that people do on this board constantly.

I think Sheppard's success was bad for players like Perry and Noah in the sense that it created unreasonable expectations. They might look like they're similar things, but really they're not. Perry is never gonna be the caliber prospect that Reed was for the simple reason that he does not have his explosive legs. He has normal white person legs, instead of "both parents were superstar athletes" legs.

That ain't his fault. Blame genetics.

Exactly this. I don’t think some folks understand Reed’s athleticism was at a different level than most of his peers in Kentucky.

The stroke and his basketball IQ were great, but high end athleticism in addition to those intangibles is what separated Reed from guys like Perry and Noah.

Reed definitely inherited Jeff’s leaping ability.
 
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I think people are underselling Perry. He’s going to be a knock down shooter for us and a crafty scorer. He just needs time.
Defensively he will get better and I’m betting he will play “smart” team defense as he ages, he’ll always be a little athletically challenged. He’ll learn to use what he’s got. Noah will be a starter at some point I have no doubt. JMOP.
 
I am not beating up on Perry and Noah has shown some overall skills. However, I will admit I am so disappointed in Perry. This is the historic leading scorer in Kentucky High School basketball history. Won the preseason 3 point contest. In fact, there were several experts (not people here) on Youtube and other media saying he was a real talent. He also seemed slightly better in offense that Reed which made it ever more exciting a prospect to see. I don't know if it is psychological or he just isn't aggressive or is simply not at the level expected but it is hard to debate he is no Reed Sheppard or outstanding compared with many other Freshman for other teams.

Noah I think has done a little better but is he better than other Freshman for other teams? You can't have players who are not better than their opponents and expect to win.

I know many here, perhaps including me, hope they will develop. But, in the world of college basketball in today's game you have to have players who impact if you want to win. Perry, Noah, and Chandler the highest rated of the 3) are certainly not striking fear or causing coaches to come up with a game plan to stop them.

We knew already that Cal would not have recruited either Kentucky player other than if forced to have Perry to sit on the bench. I am no Cal fan any longer but was he right in this one?
You do realize that both Perry and Noah have made significant contributions this year right? Did you forget the combined 19 points they put up against a #1 NCAAT seed Tennessee. They’re both freshmen. Newsflash, freshmen typically go through a transitional period from high school to college level competition.

As for your disappointment in Perry, were you disappointed in Dickey Beal, Roger Hardin, Jim Master, Ed Davender and countless others too as they all struggled their freshmen year in college? You sound like someone who has never competed in any sport beyond church league and doesn’t understand the degree of difficulty competing against high level talent.
 
I am not beating up on Perry and Noah has shown some overall skills. However, I will admit I am so disappointed in Perry. This is the historic leading scorer in Kentucky High School basketball history. Won the preseason 3 point contest. In fact, there were several experts (not people here) on Youtube and other media saying he was a real talent. He also seemed slightly better in offense that Reed which made it ever more exciting a prospect to see. I don't know if it is psychological or he just isn't aggressive or is simply not at the level expected but it is hard to debate he is no Reed Sheppard or outstanding compared with many other Freshman for other teams.

Noah I think has done a little better but is he better than other Freshman for other teams? You can't have players who are not better than their opponents and expect to win.

I know many here, perhaps including me, hope they will develop. But, in the world of college basketball in today's game you have to have players who impact if you want to win. Perry, Noah, and Chandler the highest rated of the 3) are certainly not striking fear or causing coaches to come up with a game plan to stop them.

We knew already that Cal would not have recruited either Kentucky player other than if forced to have Perry to sit on the bench. I am no Cal fan any longer but was he right in this one?
Perry reminds me a lot of Cameron Mills. He is still young and can grow into that.
 
I think because of Noah size and rebounding his ceiling is a little higher the next few years. Perry will be fine also, by his senior years Cameron Mills still only played 10mpg but he was valuable in his role. I figure Perry will slide somewhere in between Mills and Sparks and I’ll take either one all day. There are always growing pains with guys that really care and spend a career at a school, in this day and age you are lucky to have guys like that.
 
I am not beating up on Perry and Noah has shown some overall skills. However, I will admit I am so disappointed in Perry. This is the historic leading scorer in Kentucky High School basketball history. Won the preseason 3 point contest. In fact, there were several experts (not people here) on Youtube and other media saying he was a real talent. He also seemed slightly better in offense that Reed which made it ever more exciting a prospect to see. I don't know if it is psychological or he just isn't aggressive or is simply not at the level expected but it is hard to debate he is no Reed Sheppard or outstanding compared with many other Freshman for other teams.

Noah I think has done a little better but is he better than other Freshman for other teams? You can't have players who are not better than their opponents and expect to win.

I know many here, perhaps including me, hope they will develop. But, in the world of college basketball in today's game you have to have players who impact if you want to win. Perry, Noah, and Chandler the highest rated of the 3) are certainly not striking fear or causing coaches to come up with a game plan to stop them.

We knew already that Cal would not have recruited either Kentucky player other than if forced to have Perry to sit on the bench. I am no Cal fan any longer but was he right in this one?

You are talking about KY high school. Not like it's some mega big state.

They are doing fine as normal freshmen this year.
 
Good thing Hawkins
I am not beating up on Perry and Noah has shown some overall skills. However, I will admit I am so disappointed in Perry. This is the historic leading scorer in Kentucky High School basketball history. Won the preseason 3 point contest. In fact, there were several experts (not people here) on Youtube and other media saying he was a real talent. He also seemed slightly better in offense that Reed which made it ever more exciting a prospect to see. I don't know if it is psychological or he just isn't aggressive or is simply not at the level expected but it is hard to debate he is no Reed Sheppard or outstanding compared with many other Freshman for other teams.

Noah I think has done a little better but is he better than other Freshman for other teams? You can't have players who are not better than their opponents and expect to win.

I know many here, perhaps including me, hope they will develop. But, in the world of college basketball in today's game you have to have players who impact if you want to win. Perry, Noah, and Chandler the highest rated of the 3) are certainly not striking fear or causing coaches to come up with a game plan to stop them.

We knew already that Cal would not have recruited either Kentucky player other than if forced to have Perry to sit on the bench. I am no Cal fan any longer but was he right in this one?
Cal recruited Perry and signed him.When did anyone ever " force" Cal to do anything. Noah was going to USC an SEC school before he changed his mind and came here. As for what kind of players they will be time will tell. Writing their college obit based on their freshman season is short sighted and premature. Quite a few ex Cats had shaky freshman seasons only to develop into really good players for us, Tony Delk comes to mind. Darius Miller, a host of others. I'll wait and see.
 
Another bone head thread. Player development use to matter, but now, instant gratification reigns. Pope isn't even thru his first season. He has absolutely exceeded expectations, but uk78, and others has a better plan. Just stop it! Give the man some time.
Some of you won't be happy until every freshman hits the portal.
 
Apples and oranges imo. Pope was trying to build a roster and fast. Both are good players to have on our roster either way.
 
You do realize Cal signed Perry right? Give Noah a couple of years and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Noah will be good here. Really good if he grows a few more inches. He has an athleticism and height that Perry just doesn't have.

Perry will probably never be more than a backup here, and thats ok too. He was never supposed to play this year and we can see why. Tough assignment.
 
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That’s my worry, he can’t improve on his athletic weakness that much. His height will always be a detriment in this conference too. I feel like Noah has a frame that he could build on to defend someone on the court well enough in the future. Maybe Perry keeps getting better and becomes like a mini Travis Ford. They are great guys to stockpile in the 8-12 range players on a team. You won’t find many guys with talent who will willingly be the 10th man a couple years.
Perry is taller than Travis Ford…. So maybe he’d be a supersized Travis Ford
 
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I am not beating up on Perry and Noah has shown some overall skills. However, I will admit I am so disappointed in Perry. This is the historic leading scorer in Kentucky High School basketball history. Won the preseason 3 point contest. In fact, there were several experts (not people here) on Youtube and other media saying he was a real talent. He also seemed slightly better in offense that Reed which made it ever more exciting a prospect to see. I don't know if it is psychological or he just isn't aggressive or is simply not at the level expected but it is hard to debate he is no Reed Sheppard or outstanding compared with many other Freshman for other teams.

Noah I think has done a little better but is he better than other Freshman for other teams? You can't have players who are not better than their opponents and expect to win.

I know many here, perhaps including me, hope they will develop. But, in the world of college basketball in today's game you have to have players who impact if you want to win. Perry, Noah, and Chandler the highest rated of the 3) are certainly not striking fear or causing coaches to come up with a game plan to stop them.

We knew already that Cal would not have recruited either Kentucky player other than if forced to have Perry to sit on the bench. I am no Cal fan any longer but was he right in this one?
Every player you recruit has a chance of being a bust. The five star guys have a lower chance, but every once in a while you get a Quade Green or Khalil Whitney. Three star guys are going to have a higher bust rate, but if the three star guys we recruit are primarily Kentucky kids there's a decent chance they'll give us two or three years to crack the lineup, at which point they will either be contributors or they'll move on and play basketball at a more appropriate level for their abilities. In the meantime UK gets depth and continuity, and those kids get high level coaching and probably better NIL than they could get at most other schools.
 
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