automatic 2 FTs after 6 fouls in a half too. teams wont muck it up if they know they are going to the free throw line after just 6 fouls for 2 free points.
Vitale's Suggestion for 6 Fouls
- Thread starter KYtotheCore
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I said I didn't agree with his 6 fouls rant in the game thread. Why reward teams like UL who constantly hack you to death? They would be even more aggressive with another foul being available. I like it the way it is now even when it hurts us with cheap fouls like Bam has been getting.
It teaches you to play without fouling or you will be sitting a big chunk of the game. Coaches then have to be more strategic with who is in the game. Should I leave the guy with 2 fouls in the game in the first half or save him for the second half? While the other team can go at the guy in foul trouble and he is forced to play off them or risk even further foul trouble.
I'd rather the refs worry about getting calls right over giving them more fouls to watch out for. Like not calling fouls on the defense when the shooter is intentionally trying to draw the foul by jumping sideways into them or sticking their leg out to get fouled. A natural shooting motion doesn't go sideways or involve a scissor kick.
It teaches you to play without fouling or you will be sitting a big chunk of the game. Coaches then have to be more strategic with who is in the game. Should I leave the guy with 2 fouls in the game in the first half or save him for the second half? While the other team can go at the guy in foul trouble and he is forced to play off them or risk even further foul trouble.
I'd rather the refs worry about getting calls right over giving them more fouls to watch out for. Like not calling fouls on the defense when the shooter is intentionally trying to draw the foul by jumping sideways into them or sticking their leg out to get fouled. A natural shooting motion doesn't go sideways or involve a scissor kick.
I wouldn't mind it if all fouls resulted in free throws and not just shooting fouls up until 10. Make free throws more important and force players to take them more seriously. To many players only seem to be good at dunking or jacking up 3's. If not that then at least make all free throws one and ones. You miss the first you don't ever get a second attempt. Every free throw matters.
I disagree! You actually don't see many flops outside of Duke. But to reduce that (flops), the refs should be allowed to call a technical on a player he thinks "flopped".
But the flops aren't when a guy is beat, it is usually a help-side defender that flops; and if he was "beat" then he wouldn't be in-front of the offensive player to flop.
But if no charges were allowed, I could see a Julius Peppers type guy (recall he played some for UNC) be unstopable (despite limited skills) as he would just plow over people due to his size & strength. No amount of defense could stop that.
Interesting idea. So you are saying if you have a guy in the game with 5 fouls, and he commits another foul it is 2 shots and the ball for the other team. That's creative. Have to think about that one.
This is exactly why 6 fouls is a stupid idea. Leave it at 5.
So 1 & 1 from foul 1 to foul 82. I can see your logic on starting if off 1 & 1. But I think the 2 shot (at 10th foul) was put in place after NC ST cardiac kids won it much due to fouling the last 5 minutes in games, and teams missing FTs. That many fouls really slowed down the game!
NBA plays 48 minutes (or one foul for every 8 minutes).
College plays 40 minutes (or one foul for every 8 minutes).
This is one of the best ideas I have heard in a long time. There's nothing more deflating about college basketball than the multiple secondary charges that are called and 90% of them are shitty calls. I actually dislike the charge all together. Get down and play defense. Who the hell puts their arms down and falls backwards to play defense?
Leave it alone, keep changing things and it won't be basketball. This is the college game and most people like it the way it is, Players need to learn how to play defense if fouling bothers them. They keep trying to make it like the pro's, the college game is great the way it is.
Disregard that. It is about secondary defenders sliding in front of the offensive player when they make their move to the basket. I think the circle rule came out around the same time as well.
I hate 6 foul idea. That's a terrible idea.
NBA has 48 minutes with 6 fouls, or basically foul per every 8 minutes. While playing 24 second clock.
College has 40 minutes with 5 fouls, or basically foul per every 8 minutes. While playing 30 second clock.
Basically we already get more fouls than college. No reason to slow it down even farther.
I rather them get the calls right or more accurate. Some of BAM's call has been mysterious.
NBA has 48 minutes with 6 fouls, or basically foul per every 8 minutes. While playing 24 second clock.
College has 40 minutes with 5 fouls, or basically foul per every 8 minutes. While playing 30 second clock.
Basically we already get more fouls than college. No reason to slow it down even farther.
I rather them get the calls right or more accurate. Some of BAM's call has been mysterious.
you cant just change 1 rule. you have to keep balance. especially when most college coaches who have less talent will find a way to make the game worse than it already is.
Hell, why call any offensive fouls then? Allow the ball handler to push off anytime he wants, allow post players to throw their elbow into the neck of their defender (like Shaq), but by all means make sure the offensive player isn't to be touched at all. For many teams taking charges is a way to protect the rim. And defensive rotations are a great thing to watch (and hard to teach) so the charge is an equalizer to smaller teams.
IMO, all it would do is increase the foul count and likelihood for a ref to call a borderline call a foul.
Here's a clue Dickie V, don't effing foul!
On another topic, how about four 10 minute quarters and get on the same page with every other level
of hoops where the game is measured in quarters and bring back the jump ball for the start of each
quarter and held possessions.
Here's a clue Dickie V, don't effing foul!
On another topic, how about four 10 minute quarters and get on the same page with every other level
of hoops where the game is measured in quarters and bring back the jump ball for the start of each
quarter and held possessions.
Exactly.
Charging (not the flopping), push-offs, hooking, are all moves to physically move your opponent out of your way because you don't have the skill to get your shot off, and should be called as fouls!
I don't care about the quarters vs half. I guess it might lead to a little more excitement (clock running down 4 times instead of 2).
I would be ok w/ jumpball to start a new half/quarter, but NOT for each tie-up. That artificially gives the advantage to the bigger guy/team.
The best part about the quarters, imo, would be resetting the foul count more often.
Games where a team gets in the bonus 5 minutes in are tedious.
DeCourcy agrees.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 5s6 seconds agoMichael DeCourcy Retweeted GoldandBlack.com
Dear God, no. Pros play 20 percent more minutes, get 20 percent more fouls.
But then, if you don't reduce the number of fouls to get into the bonus, you are not punishing teams for fouling. All fouling does is reset the shot clock, but also force the offense to in-bound the ball. I would assume if you go to quarters, either A) fouls in the 2nd & 4th just add on to the 1st & 3rd, or B) The # of fouls to reach the bonus is cut from 7 to 4.
Or an offensive player using his arms and shoulders like that could be whistled for a player control foul like they should be... The charge doesn't equalize anything. It is a way to
Punish a player who is faster and more athletic for getting to the rim. Ooo look at me I got underneath you and put my hands on my nads and fell backwards. Gotcha! Woo we get the ball the other way now!
Seriously I hate the charge call. I by no means say let offensive players bully and push defensive players all day, but I rarely see a charge that I thought was really a charge. To be a charge for me, the player should have occupied that space and I don't mean jump into that space at the last second to strategically draw a foul. I mean he is playing defense there and the offensive player ran over the space he legitimately occupied. The charge is a shitty call most of the time
Well, I guess if I had taken the time to actually READ the entire thread, I would have already known that! That's why my wife calls me Idiot...yeah, I revised my stance on that
You all made good points
Vitale thinks he is an opinion leader in college basketball. In reality, he is the worst TV analyst in college sports. He is shrill and self-promotional. Some analysts come from successful playing or coaching careers. Vitale was a terrible coach. Allowing 6 fouls is a stupid idea. How has college basketball survived this long with 5 fouls?Thoughts?
The NCAA had to basically do away with the jump ball because most of the refs couldn't simply couldn't toss the ball up right.
3 second rule for defenders.
That's a rule change I'd be all for. It makes logical sense in the context of the game- if an offensive player can't campout under the basket, why can a defensive player do it? And it would make drawing charges a more difficult proposition. The charge call is an absolute necessity for the game to encourage ball movement and discourage pure muscle-ball, and help defense is an integral part of the game, but drawing charges shouldn't be a main cog of defensive strategy (which it often seems like).
That's a rule change I'd be all for. It makes logical sense in the context of the game- if an offensive player can't campout under the basket, why can a defensive player do it? And it would make drawing charges a more difficult proposition. The charge call is an absolute necessity for the game to encourage ball movement and discourage pure muscle-ball, and help defense is an integral part of the game, but drawing charges shouldn't be a main cog of defensive strategy (which it often seems like).
Why does Dick care? Duke hardly gets whistled for fouls anyway.
And let's work on getting the 5 fouls called CORRECTLY before we start changing the rule book.
And let's work on getting the 5 fouls called CORRECTLY before we start changing the rule book.
I feel like it's an unpopular opinion, but I don't mind alternating possession. You can say it "punishes the defense" but I really don't see it that way. It's a 50/50 turnover. And going with jump ball, you "punish the defense" if guard collapse and tie up a big man. Offense will win almost all of those tips.
NBA refs are IMO (with a few exceptions) far superior and much more consistent than your typical NCAA ref.
As far as overlooking traveling, yes that can be an issue at times for the NBA. But I would submit as a counter that 1.) it's actually harder to travel than many people assume, especially if players use a proper jump-stop and 2.) NCAA refs often call players for traveling which actually isn't (when you slow it down and look at the pivot in relation to what's happening with the ball.) It seems anything that looks rushed or awkward in any way is called a travel by default.
Agree with this. That's how I've always viewed it as well.
And as far as Vitale's recent dumb idea about 6 fouls, don't like that either.
The LAST thing collegiate basketball needs right now is more fouls. Unless Kentucky's playing where I have a rooting interest, its barely watchable right now as it is.
Huh ? The NBA is the best it has been in a long time and the viewing numbers back that up . It isn't 2005 anymore .
People talk ish about the NBA who haven't watched a game in years
A "proper jump-stop" should be traveling too. College refs do miss call (call it too often) traveling some. But often it happens so fast, I can see how they get it wrong. The NBA refs don't even try, oh you want 4 steps, sure, how about 5.
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