If he was thinking of any big brand school - certainly Kentucky or Duke - he’d have used several exclamation points and Big News!! kind of adjectives. That’s a pretty understated tweet for Dickie V. Of course, it may be that he doesn’t know any particulars or specific names.....
Vitale tweets bad news coming in FBI trial testimony
- Thread starter Smashcat
- Start date
Your presumption here is wrong. There are many elite recruits who are not seeking and do not receive money, while some lesser rated recruits might.
The coaches know early in the process what and who they are dealing with, and some are willing to deal.
All of the coaches know who is sweating this out, from head coaches to assistants.
Not saying any coach or school, but human nature. These kids play against each other all summer, tournaments, camps. They talk, they know the game.
I find it very difficult to believe that if players 20-25 are getting money, that players 15-20 would not be. It is not a need of money but a status among the players.
The players don’t need free shoes, shirts, shorts at each camp/tournament, but they certainly get and take them.
It's lame to release stuff like that without any proof. He's just looking for attention. Wait until there is something to talk about instead of baiting people.
I doubt Dickie V is plugged into the FBI. So this kind of scuttlebutt must be pretty common knowledge either within ESPN or the NCAA in general. So Kansas and Ariz have to be the most terrified right now. DePaul, Louisville, Oregon, and feeling sick that something concrete and actionable is about to be presented.
This is about as wrong as any post I have ever read. The NCAA wants to bring UNC down??????????????? They are the ones that let them slide on the biggest recent scandal in college sports.
I'm no UNC or NCAA apologist, but he has a point here. The reason the NCAA let the UNCheaters off the hook is because they lacked the desire, resources, and intestinal fortitude to battle the UNC legal team for years in court, possibly leading to letting them off on a technicality in the Supreme Court someday. Basically the NCAA realized how big of a brawl they'd stepped into and tried to slink back into the shadows.
HOWEVER, if there were a slam dunk opportunity to nail UNC to the wall for recruiting violations, I think the NCAA would like to take that shot.
That being said, the NCAA is completely corrupt and spineless, and I firmly expect ZERO wrist slaps to come out of this whole thing.
It will not be any Nike schools. Gatto has direct knowledge of what Adidas has funded and is trying to prove the schools Adidas was helping were cheating anyway. Gatto wants as much dirt exposed as possible to prove no harm was caused by his actions.
They didn't let them off the hook. UNC beat them at their own game. The NCAA tried three separate times to come up with a NOA that they could use to punish them. Each time UNC beat them over their head with it.
The simple fact is that most of the experts were right all along, UNC didn't break any of the NCAA's bylaws. It's as simple as that.
I see what you’re saying but you have to remember, the higher ranked a kid is, the better chance he has of being a lottery draft pick. If a kid goes to Kentucky, Cal’s pitch is that he’s going to have the best possibility of getting drafted high AND he’s gonna help build his brand, making him a household name. So school X might offer him $50,000 but in the long run, he’s risking millions to go there. Smart kids realize this.
Sorry but no. UNC not only broke by-laws they broke many of the very core principles that the NCAA is based on.
Please lol. The NCAA has penalized schools for even considering doing what UNC did. What it came down to had little to do with UNC’s guilt or lack thereof but two things:
1. Motivation: As a darling of the media institutions, particularly the founder of ESPN, this big scandal was getting zero media coverage on a national scene. This is honestly astounding, but from the NCAA perspective they are mostly motivated by keeping the appearance of college basketball as clean as possible, than with any actual sense of justice. By owning ESPN and keeping this out of most people’s attention spans, UNC had already won well over half the battle.
2. UNC was smart to not admit anything it didn’t have to and threw the lawyers at it, as the above poster alluded to. With the NCAA having zero motivation due to the media freezeout on the issue, UNC needed that small bit for a way out.
I’ll give you guys a little credit for cheating smarter than Louisville (lol), but have no doubt that were it Kentucky and we did everything the EXACT way you guys played it, we would be looking at a vacated championship based solely on the media coverage disparity alone.
UNC used the "We have no standards of honor or academic worth" defense. Basically, the school said "we can set any standard we want for students - including athletes - and the NCAA can't govern that. And our standard includes putting Rashad McCants on the Dean's List despite him admitting he did NO WORK and attended NO CLASSES, and keeping Julius Peppers eligible for two sports despite him failing every real class."
Congratulations. UNC-CHEATS spent $30 million taxpayer dollars to confirm what we already knew: Chapel Hill has no sense of honor or pride in academics.
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His tweet turns out to be because they are having Bowen on the stand again but this time going into detail about his the schools and coaches cheated
10 million dollars in lawyer fees, and no principles makes it easier to beat charges of blatant cheating. Nice work if you can live with your consciences. Obviously you, and your fellow cheater fans can.
Was this big news Bowen Sr getting ~$1600 for rent directly from. UofL assistant?
I mean... It's a violation but I wouldn't say this is huge news. Dumpster fire of a school that has committed uncountable violations commits another violation. Shocking?
I mean... It's a violation but I wouldn't say this is huge news. Dumpster fire of a school that has committed uncountable violations commits another violation. Shocking?
You might want to read the actual COI report on UNC because your analysis of the UNC case is inaccurate.
UNC got off the hook because they were successful at getting evidence withheld from the committee’s consideration. It had nothing to do with a finding that their cheating not violating by-laws. UNC clearly violated the rules.
It was the simple fact that the COI lacked the specific examples necessary to conclude the violations occurred in the first place. As a result, all of the new enforcement rules enacted post-UNC center on evidentiary standards for enforcement investigations. Evidence was the problem and that’s what the NCAA hopes to prevent in the future.
Analysts who thought this didn’t violate by-laws didn’t know what they were talking about. UNC violated by-laws. But UNC also successfully suppressed key evidence and the COI was clear about this in the report.
In other words unCHEATS legal team outplayed the uncaa legal team.
More or less. To his credit, Rick Evrard earned every penny of his legal fees.
Had things played out as they should have, and had UNC actually been interested in accountability, then they would have lost two banners. But UNC was always more focused on appearances than substance. Pharisees would be proud of that program.
There's also the possibility that the kids ranked 25-50 are in the sweet spot to take money. Good enough to help a college program and get paid for it but maybe not good enough to make big money in the pros. I assume this has been conjectured but didn't want to read all the responses to find out.
The NCAA reopened the case multiple times because of public outrage generated by the Raleigh N&O reports. If you think the NCAA honestly wanted to punish UNC for this, I'm not sure what to say.
I think, in the end, they realized any punishment that didn't include removing the four tainted banners and at least one year with no basketball would have been considered light. Easier to just let them off on a technicality.
Oddly specific question. I say this because as you full well know I never claimed the “NCAA showed they broke” by-laws. All I said was that UNC broke by-laws, and more importantly willfully broke the fundamental principles of the organization itself.
The NCAA abdicated their responsibility & authority in this case. I don’t even know that they ever actually did a real investigation. Instead they inexplicably continued to allow UNC to create one sham “self-investigation” after another, which includes the limited Wainstein Report which the NOA was based on.
As I have argued in the past, I reject the assumption that a specific by-law needs to be broken in order to punish a school. The NCAA manual is not the penal code. It’s a document which outlines the principles of the organization and (through their voluntary membership) the schools agree to these core principles.
There are rules, to be sure, but most of those relate to recruiting, amateurism, financial aid, playing/practice time limitations etc. Most of the rules are designed around putting restrictions on student-athletes themselves. The implicit assumption is that the organization itself doesn’t require a lot of specific rules because they are expected to be adhering to the core principles of the NCAA already.
In other words the manual from the perspective of the school is more a set of principles and guidelines as opposed to a strict set of specific rules.
Having said all that, there are indeed some specific by-laws & requirements that the school itself is required to do which they were not IMO in keeping with NCAA expectations.
In particular every year schools are required to file a certificate confirming that each athlete meets all requirements & is eligible to participate. By filing these fraudulently (regardless of whether they knew better or not) they were breaking the by-law.
There’s a number of such examples. I suggest you read the NCAA manual itself and pay special attention to the core principles but also to Article 10 Ethical Conduct, Article 12 Amateurism & Athletics Eligibility and Article 14 Academic Eligibility.
Nice write up, but a pretty long-winded way of saying "the NCAA couldn't find anything that they could say UNC violated".
It's not like they didn't try to hammer them either.
As a refresher for everyone and our little UNC friend here, below is what the COI thought about UNC. Again, it’s clear that UNC cheated. It’s also clear they abused both the by-laws and their responsibility to cooperate in order to restrict the evidence included in the case record.
Notable about this passage is that it’s unheard of for the COI to issue such an opinion in a case where the school received no penalties. The COI is also mocking the the quality of a UNC degree when discussing the fact that UNC was standing behind the classes. Unfortunately, the NCAA was reticent to take on another legal battle and caved on this.
But there should be no doubt, UNC is one of the filthiest programs to ever field a team.
Notable about this passage is that it’s unheard of for the COI to issue such an opinion in a case where the school received no penalties. The COI is also mocking the the quality of a UNC degree when discussing the fact that UNC was standing behind the classes. Unfortunately, the NCAA was reticent to take on another legal battle and caved on this.
But there should be no doubt, UNC is one of the filthiest programs to ever field a team.
But given UNC's early admissions, its implementation of corrective measures and its recent distancing of itself from the Cadwalader report, the panel concludes that it is more likely than not that student-athletes received fraudulent credit by the common understanding of what that term means. It is also more likely than not that UNC personnel used the courses to purposely obtain and maintain student-athletes' eligibility. These strong possibilities, however, are not the operative or controlling starting points to the membership's academic fraud analysis. What ultimately matters is what UNC says about the courses. In addition to rejecting its early admissions and distancing itself from the Cadwalader report in the infractions process, UNC took the firm position that the courses were permissible and UNC will continue to honor the grades. Despite the fact that the courses failed to meet, involved little, if any, faculty engagement, and were often graded by the secretary, UNC argued the courses violated no UNC policy. UNC further claimed that work was assigned, completed and graded, and the grades counted towards a UNC degree.
UNC has offered two diametrically opposed characterizations of the courses, seemingly dependent on the venue. Even if the panel were to assign more credibility to UNC's initial admissions to SACS, the case record does not support overriding UNC's recent positions. The record was voluminous. It also included information spanning nearly two decades and interviews where subjects had difficulty recalling circumstances and events. This lack of specificity inhibited the panel's ability to test and probe certain theories. Therefore, the panel cannot conform the allegations and conclude that academic fraud occurred. Further, the record's limitations did not establish a firm basis for the panel issuing new allegations.
UNC has offered two diametrically opposed characterizations of the courses, seemingly dependent on the venue. Even if the panel were to assign more credibility to UNC's initial admissions to SACS, the case record does not support overriding UNC's recent positions. The record was voluminous. It also included information spanning nearly two decades and interviews where subjects had difficulty recalling circumstances and events. This lack of specificity inhibited the panel's ability to test and probe certain theories. Therefore, the panel cannot conform the allegations and conclude that academic fraud occurred. Further, the record's limitations did not establish a firm basis for the panel issuing new allegations.
UNC ran a diploma mill to keep its' for-profit "student" athletes eligible. Robbing many of their for-profit "student" athletes of an education. This has been proven by their own reports, a participant, and an accidentally leaked transcript.
They also used a department dedicated to African American studies as air cover to reduce the chance an investigation would occur.
I am sure UNC fans don't care anything about that because they kept their banners.
They also used a department dedicated to African American studies as air cover to reduce the chance an investigation would occur.
I am sure UNC fans don't care anything about that because they kept their banners.
Looks like it was Self.
Interesting question is - who does Vitale know that's associated with the con man that testified today? He hasn't known anything else about the trial other than now.
Interesting question is - who does Vitale know that's associated with the con man that testified today? He hasn't known anything else about the trial other than now.
The bs and lack of ncaa punishing UnCheat marked the beginning of the downfall of ncaa college basketball. Mark my words in 10 years everyone will ask where the ncaa went wrong and it will begin with no academic accountability and allowing this school to utilize fraudulent classes. It’s the greatest travesty in the history of the sport at this level and the ncaa had a chance to become credible and blew it off. Now we can expect every school to give sham classes.
I think the second thing people will look back at is this moment with he Bowen’s, De Sousa’s and Ayton. It’s like the ncaa has its eyes closed. Sean Miller still coaching? Kansas a preseason top 5?? The ncaa is teaching everyone “cheat and compete for championships”. “If you’re one of a handful of schools we will let you do it”.
UNC should have much worse punishment than UL, but they didn’t even get a slap in the wrist even though the ncaa and the former fbi investigator concluded they did in fact have sham classes. The only hope for the future of college basketball would be congressional hearings at the level of steroids in baseball to clean this garbage up. Fortunately for UNc the Dems and Reps are too busy eating each other and UNcheat is small fish at the moment. If college basketball is to be saved at some point in the near future uncheat must attone for their Sins one way or another. It is the dirtiest program in the country. I know it, you Jeff Bucktoothless knows it, and every uncheat fan I have ever met has bragged about it.
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