UNCheat takes offense when U. Of Maryland prez says school should get death penalty

[Estil]

If UNCheat doesn't want to be treated like a cheater then they shouldn't have acted like one!

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

UNC didn't break any rules. The NCAA doesn't determine what is an accredit class and what isnt. Also non student athletes were allowed to take the class. There is also no way to prove that those players would have been ineligible without the class. Work was also done in the classes which was proven in the report. What UNC did was bend the rules as much as possible without breaking them. The NCAA has no case and if they try to hand out a severe punishment they will probably lose in court.

McCants also told "Outside the Lines" that he even made the dean's list in the spring of 2005 despite not attending any of his four classes for which he received straight-A grades. He said advisers and tutors who worked with the basketball program steered him to take the paper classes within the African-American Studies program.

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...ll-star-rashad-mccants-says-took-sham-classes

 

[docholiday51]

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView?id=95

Found this case on the ncaa's website. In 91 Miami, oh head basketball coach taught a class called "basketball theory". Which is no problem..goes along with UNC fans "It's not an athletic issue, the ncaa cant tell you how hard a class has to be" theme. The problem, the coach enrolled a player in there to give him an A to keep him eligible. Turns out he never showed up or submitted any work towards the class. They had to forfeit all games he played, got 2 years probation, and the coach got a show cause. That was one player in one class...that also had normal students. Also the ciach and school complied completely. Unlike unc which had over 1000 athletes and an entire major and has spent over 18 million to make it go away..

This is the problem for the NCAA,there is no doubt the cheating took place,there are any number of prior cases where the NCAA took action on issues exactly like those we see at UNC in this situation.

UNC's cheating is on such a massive scale that the NCAA doesn't know what to do about it.They(NCAA) don't want to take down banners or impose the "death penalty" but clearly that is the only choice given the time and scope of the infractions involved

The example you cite strikes to the heart of the issue and is 100% on point.More recent cases(Syracuse and ND) show that the rules haven't changed.Probably the worst thing that could have happened(for the NCAA) did,UNC won the national championship.The attention of the college basketball world was/is focused on them,Maryland(bless their hearts) calls them out on the decades of cheating.Maryland probably won't be the last or only one to do it.

There are possible lawsuits waiting for the NCAA no matter what they do,their inaction has bought them time so far but that time will run out, there are only so many amended NOA's they can file

This situation has the potential to be the beginning of the end for the NCAA or at the very least change the face and landscape of college athletics.

Alleged point shaving,Emery envelopes,ACT test scores,agents,loans to athletes or payments by boosters can't hold a candle to the issues at UNC.The NCAA knows it but they don't know what to do about it.

 

[UKnCincy]

This is the problem for the NCAA,there is no doubt the cheating took place,there are any number of prior cases where the NCAA took action on issues exactly like those we see at UNC in this situation.

UNC's cheating is on such a massive scale that the NCAA doesn't know what to do about it.They(NCAA) don't want to take down banners or impose the "death penalty" but clearly that is the only choice given the time and scope of the infractions involved

The example you cite strikes to the heart of the issue and is 100% on point.More recent cases(Syracuse and ND) show that the rules haven't changed.Probably the worst thing that could have happened(for the NCAA) did,UNC won the national championship.The attention of the college basketball world was/is focused on them,Maryland(bless their hearts) calls them out on the decades of cheating.Maryland probably won't be the last or only one to do it.

There are possible lawsuits waiting for the NCAA no matter what they do,their inaction has bought them time so far but that time will run out, there are only so many amended NOA's they can file

This situation has the potential to be the beginning of the end for the NCAA or at the very least change the face and landscape of college athletics.

Alleged point shaving,Emery envelopes,ACT test scores,agents,loans to athletes or payments by boosters can't hold a candle to the issues at UNC.The NCAA knows it but they don't know what to do about it.

The length of time it takes for the NCAA to close an investigation is a function of two things:

1. The scope and complexity of the violations and the associated volume of evidence that must be assembled
2. The degree to which the school under investigation cooperates with the NCAA

In the UNC case, it is off the charts on both factors. The magnitude of the cheating and the degree to which it was ingrained mean that you have to assemble a mountain of evidence that is more circumstantial to piece together a picture of what happened. That is very hard for investigators that have subpoena power, which is a luxury the NCAA doesn't have.

Second, UNC has been as defiant as any school since SMU in fighting this at every turn. That complicates things dramatically for the NCAA, given the way the infractions process is designed.

The penalty that UNC receives remains to be seen. However, the length of time this is taking is not surprising and should not be viewed, in and of itself, as an indication that the NCAA doesn't want to deal with this. Some of the specific turns have been surprising, but not the overall duration.

 

[feel_the_mashburn]

hahaha...the NCAA has vacated seasons for less proof than what is in the UNC case. for example they retroactively ruled derrcik rose ineligible because, even though the NCAA could not prove anything at all, they felt he did not takes his SAT. straight up UNC is lucky they don't lose their academic accreditation over this

Can we stop bringing up the Rose case...especially if we haven't read through the details?

 

[docholiday51]

The length of time it takes for the NCAA to close an investigation is a function of two things:

1. The scope and complexity of the violations and the associated volume of evidence that must be assembled
2. The degree to which the school under investigation cooperates with the NCAA

In the UNC case, it is off the charts on both factors. The magnitude of the cheating and the degree to which it was ingrained mean that you have to assemble a mountain of evidence that is more circumstantial to piece together a picture of what happened. That is very hard for investigators that have subpoena power, which is a luxury the NCAA doesn't have.

Second, UNC has been as defiant as any school since SMU in fighting this at every turn. That complicates things dramatically for the NCAA, given the way the infractions process is designed.

The penalty that UNC receives remains to be seen. However, the length of time this is taking is not surprising and should not be viewed, in and of itself, as an indication that the NCAA doesn't want to deal with this. Some of the specific turns have been surprising, but not the overall duration.

I get your point and to some degree agree,however it is not necessary for the NCAA to assemble every piece of evidence on every athlete involved over the past 20 or so years.It would be like requiring the Commonwealth's Attorney to prove what color socks the defendant had on when he robbed the bank.

The level of cheating is massive,but once you establish that it occurred it is not as though you have to prove multiple elements to show that a violation happened.

 

[stonethecrow]

If I had to compare this to something that has happened in my life, I would say it is the sports equivalent of when the police were acquitted in the Rodney King case. Not comparing the crimes, because beating the life out of a human being & falsifying academics are definitely apples & oranges. It's just the fact that you have thousands, if not millions of people waiting for the wheels of justice to turn, and it looks like those wheels are about to stop. Pretty disgusting, compared to some of the recent violations they've handed out to programs in the past.

 

[UKnCincy]

I get your point and to some degree agree,however it is not necessary for the NCAA to assemble every piece of evidence on every athlete involved over the past 20 or so years.It would be like requiring the Commonwealth's Attorney to prove what color socks the defendant had on when he robbed the bank.

The level of cheating is massive,but once you establish that it occurred it is not as though you have to prove multiple elements to show that a violation happened.

You don't need every, single piece of evidence. But you do need evidence to substantiate each specific allegation. And each allegation has to include facts sufficient to support the charge.

In the case of extra benefits violations, which is the case here, you have to establish which athlete received a benefit, what the benefit was, who provided it, when this occurred. Without that, there is no chance that the NCAA can even consider vacating a title. That's a massive undertaking here.

You can't treat this as one singular "cheating" event, because that's not what it is. It is a string of countless individual violations occurring over an extended period of time as part of a broader scheme. That requires a lot of evidence to demonstrate that if your goal is to see significant penalties.

 

[RDCat07]

Can we stop bringing up the Rose case...especially if we haven't read through the details?

the point of bringing it up is to show that the NCAA can and will punish a program without any hard evidence or "smoking gun" so to speak. the NCAA decided, what seems, at random what they will punish a school for. it also shows how the NCAA will retroactively punish a school. but ultimately the rose case it just easiest to point to when a UNC fan start talking about them doing nothing wrong

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

They should, and at least 2 of those titles should come down.....

You mean all of them.

 

[UKnCincy]

the point of bringing it up is to show that the NCAA can and will punish a program without any hard evidence or "smoking gun" so to speak. the NCAA decided, what seems, at random what they will punish a school for. it also shows how the NCAA will retroactively punish a school. but ultimately the rose case it just easiest to point to when a UNC fan start talking about them doing nothing wrong

Rose situation is different. Memphis was punished because Rose no longer possessed a valid SAT score. It wasn't alleged cheating that made Rose ineligible, it was the fact that the testing service decided to invalidate his score. Had the testing service not taken that step, then the NCAA wouldn't have been able to punish Memphis.

That's the small difference in the Memphis case that people almost universally overlook, despite the fact that it's the single most important reason Memphis was punished.

 

[feel_the_mashburn]

the point of bringing it up is to show that the NCAA can and will punish a program without any hard evidence or "smoking gun" so to speak. the NCAA decided, what seems, at random what they will punish a school for. it also shows how the NCAA will retroactively punish a school. but ultimately the rose case it just easiest to point to when a UNC fan start talking about them doing nothing wrong

No. Not even close. If you want to blame anyone, blame Rose and then Cal next. Rose refused to meet with ETS, and Cal and Memphis never forced him to. It was them canceling the test score which forced the NCAA's hand. Everyone knew something was fishy with Rose and the test. Cal, against the advice of many, played Rose anyway. It was Rose's refusal to talk that led to ETS canceling his score that led to the NCAA being forced to rule him ineligible.

Now, can we please stop bringing this up? It's not a good look for Cal or Rose. Just let it go.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

Can we stop bringing up the Rose case...especially if we haven't read through the details?

I've read through the details and if Memphis had to vacate an season, UNC should vacate 20+.

 

[JPScott]

No. Not even close. If you want to blame anyone, blame Rose and then Cal next. Rose refused to meet with ETS, and Cal and Memphis never forced him to. It was them canceling the test score which forced the NCAA's hand. Everyone knew something was fishy with Rose and the test. Cal, against the advice of many, played Rose anyway. It was Rose's refusal to talk that led to ETS canceling his score that led to the NCAA being forced to rule him ineligible.

You're getting your timeline messed up. Cal played Rose because Rose passed through the clearinghouse. Only later did concerns over Rose's test come up and IIRC it was Memphis that brought it up to the NCAA, which did not advise that he not play at the time.

As for ETS, they claim that they sent a letter to Rose which was not responded to, which led to them vacating the score. Only problem was they sent it to an address in Chicago while he at Memphis, so it's not likely Rose ever saw the letter in question.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

UL and NC. So much time and money being spent on their cheating. So simple. Both gave players illegal benefits. Both should have all games they played in during those seasons vacated. End of story. Why such a struggle to punish the wrong?

 

[Old_Red]

UNC didn't break any rules. The NCAA doesn't determine what is an accredit class and what isnt. Also non student athletes were allowed to take the class. There is also no way to prove that those players would have been ineligible without the class. Work was also done in the classes which was proven in the report. What UNC did was bend the rules as much as possible without breaking them. The NCAA has no case and if they try to hand out a severe punishment they will probably lose in court.

You are an idiot. They committed academic fraud and kept players fraudulently eligible. You are one of those stinking morons that will side with cheating. I hate people like you. UNC***** is unworthy to even be in the NCAA and that is a very low bar. #UNCCHEATS #NCAAisCORRUPT and that is the only reason they haven't been hammered. "no way to prove" Gosh. You have absolutely no pride and 0 integrity. I wish that any UNC**** fan was banned from here forever.

The NCAA has tainted the integrity of NCAA basketball by allowing the cheaters to continue playing.

@yrusonvus is an idiot also. It is easily provable they committed infractions for which other schools have been punished. And they didn't even investigate Wheels for Heels. That "University" doesn't deserve accreditation and their fans deserve no respect at all.