The fact of the matter is that the NCAA has charged UNC with LOIC and according to the NCAA by-laws, LOIC is grounds for vacating wins and awards. The question will be, will the NCAA in fact vacate wins and titles? UNC at the very least is going to get hit with probation, loss of scholarships, etc. That alone is a pretty big hammer. But the violations span to at least two of UNC's men's basketball championships and the NCAA has the right to vacate those titles. Those that think the hammer isn't coming to UNC are naive.
UNCheat Gets Probation from Its Accrediting Agency
- Thread starter Smashcat
- Start date
If the Department of Education gets involved, that brings a whole new level of punishment.
Bury them alive!
its similar to the Wall St collapse
UNC is too big to fail.
SACs has done all its going to do or ever will do to Carolina.
The real surprise would have been if they did more than probation because it was clear that to do more would have been anarchy within the state and to the people who have graduated in the last decade or are currently attending. It would have crippled the school for the foreseeable future and negatively impacted the thousands of people nationwide that want to attend the school
That said, I don't believe UNC received special treatment here from SACS. Any major school, IMO, would have been treated the same.
Regardless of what is appropriate or right, I've never pinned my hopes on SACs, its always been the NCAA that I felt had the biggest opportunity to hurt the school. Sticking it to athletics is just a setback to the school in terms of revenue and pride, but does not affect the their ability to support quality education.
That follows the mantra and purpose of the NCAA at its core.
UNC is too big to fail.
SACs has done all its going to do or ever will do to Carolina.
The real surprise would have been if they did more than probation because it was clear that to do more would have been anarchy within the state and to the people who have graduated in the last decade or are currently attending. It would have crippled the school for the foreseeable future and negatively impacted the thousands of people nationwide that want to attend the school
That said, I don't believe UNC received special treatment here from SACS. Any major school, IMO, would have been treated the same.
Regardless of what is appropriate or right, I've never pinned my hopes on SACs, its always been the NCAA that I felt had the biggest opportunity to hurt the school. Sticking it to athletics is just a setback to the school in terms of revenue and pride, but does not affect the their ability to support quality education.
That follows the mantra and purpose of the NCAA at its core.
You are probably right but its a sorry @$$ position to take when the most holier then thou college on the face of the earth turns out to be the biggest cheater of all, and nothing will be done to show that it was really wrong. How can any college in the future be penalized for anything like this? I can only hope that Kentucky can stay clean, the idea of what these organizations and the ncaa could do to us if we ever get caught doing the same thing is frightening.
Well I guess I am naïve because I believe UNC*** cheats are going to get by with all of the cheating they have done. The NCAA WILL do very little to UNC***. If I am wrong I will admit it. There are going to be a lot of people disappointed when the NCAA ruling comes out.
well, probation is probation - you did wrong, clean it up and we'll move on after you prove to us you have - so while its apparently serious to SACs as some line in the sand, its gives them the ability to apply it to any school for any level of infractions and its really just becomes an over-site - another piece of bureaucratic red tape the institution has to follow in order to continue.
UNC is an example of what happens if Sandy Bell goes over to the dark side
What should piss off the NCAA is the fact that they are giving Roy a new contract right in the middle of all this mess, think about it, Carolina is spitting in the NCAA'S face, saying, we know you didn't know about it or cheat Roy, so we are backing you and our program which is saying they are still clearly in denial when there is a mountain of evidence, 18 years is a long time to cheat and get away with it even if it did start with the so called saint Dean Smith. No matter how good you think a person or program may be, that doesn't mean they are above cheating or being investigated and this is after the NCAA has come back for a second time, time to lower the boom on the Holier than thou program.
This is an amazing facet of the whole debacle. On the surface, UNC seems to be completely lacking remorse. You'd think they'd be engaged in identifying and implementing self imposed penalties. In this case, vacated wins, championships, fired employees, publicly broadcast corrective measures, announcement of independent annual audits, interim transfer of oversight and other measures would seem entirely in scope and appropriate. I've seen none of this, save 'we've implemented dozens of measures' or something to that effect. That is a VERY VERY WEAK official response in comparison to the magnitude of the transgression. They seem quite willing to appeal to the NCAA.
Its possible that UNC just hasn't got there yet. However, that just doesn't seem to be the direction they are taking. You'd think behind the scenes, some politician would be telling them to man up and take responsibility for this across the board. If not, I'd think the voters in the state would seek retribution at the ballot box. Instead we seem to be witnessing full on damage control.
Regardless of what the NCAA does, if the university does not take steps to penalize themselves, I do not see how anyone could ever use UNC and the words "ethics" or "standards" again in the same sentence. I think we have seen the peak of corruption in a D1 program. Ever.
North Carolina's politicians are in the tank for UNC***. The NC State guys have written pages on how the political infrastructure will do nearly anything to ensure the survival of UNC*** basketball.
Like I told Jon, I hope you're right. I just don't see why, with all the evidence they had of academic fraud, that's not what they chose to charge them with and I hope the COI isn't trying to use the charge of impermissible benefits as a way of letting UNC off easy. I don't care what the charges are as long as they get the punishment they deserve.
Did I see Alumni_Gym post in the last few days? I remember him getting destroyed on this board and now we sit with UNC*** having taken a hit from their accrediting institution and the NCAA having issued an NOA. Seems his mountains of evidence was there it just took time to grow.
They're face down in the dirt already.
They're just happy they're not six feet under, and consider it to be some sort of perverse accomplishment.
Yep, I got ripped to shreds by several people here (They don't post here anymore, by the way.) All I was doing was passing along what Aligned for 9 was telling me, along with what I learned on my own. Every single thing I posted eventually came to light, and yes, it IS a MOUNTAIN of evidence. So now, if I may be so bold, I to say these people, "Told ya!"
No matter what happens the punishment will never fit the crimes of UNC,we are still playing a waiting game with the NCAA,I have great respect for those posters that have provided us with info on this disgrace to college athletics..The facts are plain,the cheating is of a historic level.Hell,Watergate can't even hold a candle to this crap
I hope their next motto is we will leave the light on for ya, as they convert the place into a motel 6 !!
Good for you, but you're not getting off that easy at 50%. "Mountain of evidence" was only one half of your bold prediction. The other half (the other adjoining half) was what you wrote in stating what that mountain of evidence (MOE) would do to their men's program. So far that hasn't happened. It's been so long ago that I could only paraphrase from recollection, but you basically stated that the MOE it would destroy their men's program. Now just know this: I am absolutely on your side, fully prepared to be your #1 cheerleader when your half becomes a whole.
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Seems the majority opinion in this thread is that UNC is in big trouble, feeling the heat of a potential loss of accreditation and losing Federal funding. Well I say that opinion is why off the mark. There is little chance the UNC administration has any fear because the Federal Government is not about to stop funding a major University because of the actions of a relatively small group of people. It has never happened before and for good reason - it would result in severe hardship for the people of NC because the University would have to shut down. It would take billions out of their state economy as well as cause a severe lack in educational opportunities. I say even our own Mitch McConnell and the honorable John Boehner would rush to the aid of NC and stop it. The entire Republican controlled House of Representatives would vote immediately to come to the aid of one of their Republican controlled friendly State and reinstate UNC immediately. The only loser would be SACS whom would be promptly dismissed by the Department of Education and replaced by some other accrediting organization, likely one of the others that now accredits other schools in other parts of the country. I say UNC understands these things so well, in fact, it was the basis for the arrogance that lead to the pandering in academic fraud in the first place. Here is what I say will happen now. UNC will put more effort stopping the fraud completely and more effort in documenting that effort for SACS and SACS will lift the probation about this time next year. In other words - NOTHING at all.
That's what I say, and I'll bet the condo on it.
That's what I say, and I'll bet the condo on it.
I think this is a false premise to begin with. As mentioned just a few posts above, the large majority of people think UNC DESERVES to be hit hard. But thinking they deserve something to happen is distinct from thinking that it WILL happen. Whether they actually are hit hard remains to be seen, and that's primarily on the NCAA, which is a notoriously inconsistent entity.
Regarding SACS, I don't know anyone expected that UNC would lose accreditation. As you say that's a very drastic step with huge repercussions not just for the school but for the entire state and region, as such a step necessitates loss of federal funding etc.
Nevertheless, the issue of Federal involvement is a very real possibility, especially if UNC's cheating has involved misuse of Federal money (such as Pell Grants etc.) That is something that the Federal government can and has pursued vigorously in the past.
List of Cases Prosecute by Department of Education
Also remember that last summer as part of the U.S. Senate hearing they had former UNC football player Devon Ramsay, and there had been talk that Mary Willingham would be called. There's also been the threat of hearings specifically into the UNC scandal by the House of Representatives led by Tony Cardenas.
Any of these things would be very bad news for UNC, as it would compel many of these UNC officials (and NCAA officials as well) to go on the record under oath concerning what's actually been going on. To date they've tried their best to keep things behind the scenes as much as possible.
I would certainly say that anybody who has said unc is in big trouble and is feeling the heat isn't quite as off the mark as your brief scolding might imply - not sure what burr got lodged in your saddle, but whatever. And I'm not so sure you aren't being a bit self-serving, because the "majority" of persons who have posted on the subject (this thread is just one of many ad nauseum examinations) seem to understand - by my reading - the fundamental given that accreditation will remain in tact and that a government institution will remain a government institution . . . duh.
UNC is the oldest operating public university system in the United States - the Old Guard among the southern colonies and beyond and their network of allies is stronger than you can imagine by pecking away on your keyboard on a Saturday morning - believe that. They do not require assistance from a hick Senator from Kentucky nor a chain-smoking congressman from Ohio.
I would expect the NCAA to draw as clear a line as possible between themselves and anything that SACS did or had to say.The NCAA won't mention SACS findings in any way,shape or form.Emmert probably won't even say the the two(SACS and NCAA)are two different agencies looking at two different issues for fear of calling attention to UNC misdeeds in any area.
Since mainstream sports media doesn't seem to want to touch this issue with a 10 foot microphone it is up to chat boards and secondary news sources to keep the issue alive.
Since mainstream sports media doesn't seem to want to touch this issue with a 10 foot microphone it is up to chat boards and secondary news sources to keep the issue alive.
As with so many good posts lately, this is another that I find more interesting after a few minutes of thought, but not that a nice Saturday is worth any of our time on the subject (unc trauma). And yeah, I started off agreeing with most you wrote, but as I thought about it I found myself thinking in that old way once again . . . that if the shoe was on another foot . . . wouldn't the NCAA and the media just love to talk about SACS accreditation and UK academics and UK athletics in the same segments, in the same sentences, without coming up for air?
You are right about Saturday(just about to head out to whack the golf ball around)that was part of my point in the post,if it were UK then ESPN would have already put together an hour long special about how college sports had been ruined by such a scandal. It is nothing short of astounding how the media has tip toed around the biggest pending sports scandal in history
I am not sure how you nailed it and missed it at the same time? SACS absolutely NAILED UNC. For UNC, probation along with the likes of SC State is a major back eye. UNC thrives on reputation and that reputation has been permanently tarnished.
I have a daughter who just spent a year working on bringing her school into compliance for accreditation and she had a lot to say about this and what UNC is facing. You need to know that the leadership, donors, etc are all concerned and they are NOT happy right now. A warning would have been acceptable but UNC was expecting to be cleared based on what they have already done.
As for stopping the fraud completely, YAHOO! Peppers, R Wallace, Ed Cota, J Williams (to name a few) would have been ineligible to compete if they had stopped this a long time ago.
UNC is in deep crap and you don't see bobby on here celebrating, do you?
DSouthr, one of the regulars over at THR, posted a long (even for him) diatribe about the AFAM fiasco. Not surprisingly, he laid almost all of the blame on the AFAM head Nyang'oro. Color me shocked.
Thank you preacher fan I was hoping someone with someone with inside working on how SACS works would respond on this. Do you think this will cause the NCAA to be harder on UNC***?
Preacher I will have to rely and accept your knowledge ragarding SACS because I am not privy to their rulings nor implications thereof . However the missing component in this sordid mess is pressure , the faculty are honestly getting steamrolled and allowing it to damage what they care most about because I think they believed or were reassured that it would work out .
Whatever the case may be they are the biggest enablers of all , simply because they condemn it privately but not so much publicly . The media is a self serving bank , no need to rehash their lack of morals when it suits them . Pressure is the key ingredient and as of right now a missing component outside of a handful of media and two message boards . The faculty should be ashamed and moreover stfu with the private complaints because they would make Nero appear to be competent .
Whatever the case may be they are the biggest enablers of all , simply because they condemn it privately but not so much publicly . The media is a self serving bank , no need to rehash their lack of morals when it suits them . Pressure is the key ingredient and as of right now a missing component outside of a handful of media and two message boards . The faculty should be ashamed and moreover stfu with the private complaints because they would make Nero appear to be competent .
Western, actually my daughter works for a college in California so it isn't SACS that she dealt with but another similar agency. But, the issues are still basically the same.
The answer to your question is a qualified yes. The COI will make the final decision with full knowledge of what SACS did but that committee is only as good as the strongest members. Unfortunately, the committee isn't balanced enough with members who are (or were) not directly involved in athletic programs.
No matter what, the SACS decision is a BIG negative for UNC. I think a lighter punishment is less likely now but we all know that ONE powerful voice can change the way a committee votes.
BTW, I hope UNC sends Bradley Bethel to defend their case to the COI. UNC would get the death penalty!
![[banana]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682178.gif "banana [banana]")
So UNC athletics came within an inch of destroying the Entire University. Had UNC lost accreditation and it's ability to receive federal funds, the whole place would likely have to shutdown in short order.
That is a major deal, as many people that have nothing to do with the scandal would have been affected.
If the NCAA doesn't stick it to UNC, then the rest of the university should stick it to the athletic department.
That is a major deal, as many people that have nothing to do with the scandal would have been affected.
If the NCAA doesn't stick it to UNC, then the rest of the university should stick it to the athletic department.
Some excellent discussions in this thread.
X, keep your eyes open over the next 4 months. The SACS decision was unexpected by UNC. Emails and phone calls are lighting up Chapel HIll right now.
SACS told the faculty and academic component of UNC: "Your school has committed major violations of several major components of higher education and are lumped in with SC State and others! This was done for your sports teams to win titles. Are you okay with that?"
Fireworks to follow!
