UL Baseball is a myth
- Thread starter STUCKNBIG10
- Start date
OK, I guess we agree to disagree. Getting up for 1-2 games each year is a whole different story than having to bring it every week. it's going to be a whole new world for them.
Just because one year is a statistical anomaly does not prove a point. Home teams have a huge advantage, as do teams with national seeding. Look at a 10-20 year sample size, I'm sure you will agree with me. POinting to one year where this isn't the case does not mean that you're right and I'm wrong. Go back to your own board.
Guys, it doesn't have to be an either / or scenario. UL beat UK in an ncaa tournament game. Period. They won the game, give them credit for that (and blame our coach for pitching Mahar, for foolishly sending several runners from 3rd to home, etc etc). All I'm saying is that they also had a huge homefield advantage and in my opinion, they have done nothing to earn such an advantage. Home field matters in college sports. Louisville is repeatedly rewarded for playing a terrible schedule.I don't agree with it, and I think that (like football), the media now acts as if Louisville is a power b/c it has good win / loss records every year. These records are built by playing horrible competition from beginning to end. If UK could have played AAC teams all year and then had one tough series against a Vandy or a South Carolina, then UK would have won 45 games too.
I believe if UK and UL are going to be paired based on proximity, then UK should have been awarded the host site. UK had a great schedule, won a lot of games against quality competition, an won the head-to-head 2-0 (2-1 after last weekend's result).
First of all, props to the many Cat fans here who, no matter how grudgingly, acknowledge what UofL baseball (and basically almost all sports) have accomplished in a relatively short time. It is perfectly OK to hate on your rival but when totally dismiss their accomplishments it makes you look petty and, even worse, ignorant.
It was an exciting game, full of emotion because of what was at stake and school rivalry. But not exactly a clinic for youngsters. Cats were a team built on hitting and the Cards a team built on pitching. You know what they say about good pitching and good hitting. I have no idea how many homers the Cats popped at Cliff Hagan but I notice it is a little shorter than Patterson, especially in Right and Right Center. In fact, Cliff Hagan is shorter than NCAA recommendations everywhere except Left. I don't know if that plays into the equation or not. Regardless, the BBCOR bats are making it even tougher to build a team on slugging.
I agree that a series is a much better than a DE format but it is what it is. And in any DE tourney you just can't lose your first game.
Peace
It was an exciting game, full of emotion because of what was at stake and school rivalry. But not exactly a clinic for youngsters. Cats were a team built on hitting and the Cards a team built on pitching. You know what they say about good pitching and good hitting. I have no idea how many homers the Cats popped at Cliff Hagan but I notice it is a little shorter than Patterson, especially in Right and Right Center. In fact, Cliff Hagan is shorter than NCAA recommendations everywhere except Left. I don't know if that plays into the equation or not. Regardless, the BBCOR bats are making it even tougher to build a team on slugging.
I agree that a series is a much better than a DE format but it is what it is. And in any DE tourney you just can't lose your first game.
Peace
I think it's hilarious that you and your friends need to constantly come to this board for validation. My opinions are not ignorant. I am in the minority of the UK and UL fanbases because I actually follow college baseball closely. You may disagree with me or you may be disappointed that I dismiss your accomplishments, but I assure you that my opinions on this subject are just as informed as yours are (and I'd be willing to bet that my opinions are more educated than yours are, but that's speculation).
I've given plenty of reasons for my assertions. Again, you may not like them, but that doesn't mean that they are incorrect. I wouldn't expect them to be popular in your circles b/c they dispute your cozy little Card narrative that you would like to perpetuate.
This post was edited on 6/4 1:03 PM by STUCKNBIG10
One other thought to those that disagree with my opinion:
UL is treated (certainly by its fanbase, and to a lesser extent, by the media) as some sort of emergent power in football and baseball. I have offered examples of why UL is no different than Utah or TCU. It doesn't mean that UL sucks or that UL can't have good programs. It just means that UL isn't even in the stratosphere of top teams and thus UL should not be treated like one and gifted with high rankings, home regionals and such.
Does anyone really believe that UL would go better than 7-5 in the SEC on an annual basis? Does anyone really believe that UL would go much better than .500 in the SEC in baseball on an annual basis? If the answer is no, then you agree with my original point. If the answer is yes, then i'm not sure how you reach such a conclusion as that means that you expect that UL would regularly beat UF, UGA, USC, UK, UT, and some combo of western teams in football. That also means that you think UL has a consistently better baseball program than LSU, USC, UF, UK, Ole Miss, Miss state, and the rest (i.e. UL will win more than they lose against that bunch).
Better yet, let's deal with UL's newfound paradigm, the ACC. I do not believe that UL would have anywhere close to the record that it had this year in baseball if it had had to play UVA, FSU, Miami, Clemson, Maryland, and others PLUS UK and Vandy in the OOC. Not even close. I also don't think UL has a 1-loss football team against a schedule that includes FSU, Miami, Va Tech, et al. Not even close.
Not sure why this opinion is even controversial to any UK fans on this board (except for the fact that you're irritated that we lose to UL with any regularity in any sport, and in that case, I understand and agree with your frustration as this should never happen).
UL is treated (certainly by its fanbase, and to a lesser extent, by the media) as some sort of emergent power in football and baseball. I have offered examples of why UL is no different than Utah or TCU. It doesn't mean that UL sucks or that UL can't have good programs. It just means that UL isn't even in the stratosphere of top teams and thus UL should not be treated like one and gifted with high rankings, home regionals and such.
Does anyone really believe that UL would go better than 7-5 in the SEC on an annual basis? Does anyone really believe that UL would go much better than .500 in the SEC in baseball on an annual basis? If the answer is no, then you agree with my original point. If the answer is yes, then i'm not sure how you reach such a conclusion as that means that you expect that UL would regularly beat UF, UGA, USC, UK, UT, and some combo of western teams in football. That also means that you think UL has a consistently better baseball program than LSU, USC, UF, UK, Ole Miss, Miss state, and the rest (i.e. UL will win more than they lose against that bunch).
Better yet, let's deal with UL's newfound paradigm, the ACC. I do not believe that UL would have anywhere close to the record that it had this year in baseball if it had had to play UVA, FSU, Miami, Clemson, Maryland, and others PLUS UK and Vandy in the OOC. Not even close. I also don't think UL has a 1-loss football team against a schedule that includes FSU, Miami, Va Tech, et al. Not even close.
Not sure why this opinion is even controversial to any UK fans on this board (except for the fact that you're irritated that we lose to UL with any regularity in any sport, and in that case, I understand and agree with your frustration as this should never happen).
They most certainly have more$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ boosters than KENTUCKY does
This post was edited on 6/5 1:25 AM by sluggercatfan
The reasons why Louisville is emergent in baseball are very different from why they would perceived the same way in football, and it's in part due to how different sports themselves are and I think it's important for your baseball program as well. Baseball has 11.7 scholarships to alot per year to it's program; football 85. Football powers by-and-large who would be perceived as perennial powers--with the notable exception perhaps of Nebraska--have one very clear reason as to why...a local talent pool. It's why we will always be inconsistent in football at Louisville and you're doomed to mediocrity in it as well; there's no abundance of local talent and you're competing against schools that are abundant in it.
In baseball Louisville is emergent and in a way I never would have thought; McDonnell has turned recruiting upside/down...Big Ten schools until the Big Ten network has come around have had no impetus to compete or spend money on baseball and in climates that are frigid until after Easter they've never had a reason to be. Louisville's roster has been overwhelmingly composed of kids from the Midwest--especially Chicago land--throughout Indiana and into PA. Rare is the kid from south of Kentucky unless they are a JUCO. He's been able to sell a warmer climate than what they live in, an easy drive for a weekend series for parents and facilities that exceeded the caliber of the Big Ten states they lived...and if you look at the caliber of the succession of the Classes of 2014 through 2016 of kids already committed to Louisville you can see that the ACC inclusion REALLY has boosted the caliber of kid coming to UofL and that should be of concern to Kentuckians because what appears to be the higher end talent in the state is either going to UofL or turning pro. McDonnell hasn't suffered too badly from the amateur draft with the exceptions of Nathan Adcock back in the early 2000's, Jake Odorizzi going first round supplemental four years ago and Tucker Nehaus foregoing a chance to play SS for UofL to get get drafted early rounds out of FL. The caliber of talent projected at Louisville has really escalated.
In baseball Louisville is emergent and in a way I never would have thought; McDonnell has turned recruiting upside/down...Big Ten schools until the Big Ten network has come around have had no impetus to compete or spend money on baseball and in climates that are frigid until after Easter they've never had a reason to be. Louisville's roster has been overwhelmingly composed of kids from the Midwest--especially Chicago land--throughout Indiana and into PA. Rare is the kid from south of Kentucky unless they are a JUCO. He's been able to sell a warmer climate than what they live in, an easy drive for a weekend series for parents and facilities that exceeded the caliber of the Big Ten states they lived...and if you look at the caliber of the succession of the Classes of 2014 through 2016 of kids already committed to Louisville you can see that the ACC inclusion REALLY has boosted the caliber of kid coming to UofL and that should be of concern to Kentuckians because what appears to be the higher end talent in the state is either going to UofL or turning pro. McDonnell hasn't suffered too badly from the amateur draft with the exceptions of Nathan Adcock back in the early 2000's, Jake Odorizzi going first round supplemental four years ago and Tucker Nehaus foregoing a chance to play SS for UofL to get get drafted early rounds out of FL. The caliber of talent projected at Louisville has really escalated.
I don't begrudge Louisville's success. I've met their coach and he's a great guy. I begrudge the system. Why do you play a regional, then play a series, then back to regional format, then a series for the title? How does that make any sense? Shouldn't every game between every opponent feature a one vs a one or a two vs a two in the pitching matchup?
I also believe it's harder to finish ninth in the SEC than it is to finish third in the AAC. Remember when UConn finished ninth in the Big East but won the national title? Same concept.
I also believe it's harder to finish ninth in the SEC than it is to finish third in the AAC. Remember when UConn finished ninth in the Big East but won the national title? Same concept.
That's interesting...I think navigating all of what goes into the CWS is all the more challenging, in part because of how different the environment Omaha presents with the BCOR bats vs. home-road games in the Regionals and SuperRegionals. I think it's put an even greater premium on pitching in the college postseason.
Then you throw in the mass exodus of players after their junior seasons (if they're good enough), and it's easy to see why college baseball, even though it's played very well by the athletes, can't catch the sports fans' attention like football and basketball can. I think I heard that U of L had seven juniors who were drafted last year.
I think college baseball has a following problem for several reasons:
1. Baseball is easily accessible in tons of cities, and many college teams will also have a minor or major league team nearby to compete against. In football there are basically two types of teams, college or pro. Most people can latch onto both, and keep up because that is just 2 games a week. Same thing with basketball but more games. You can easily keep up with either your college or pro team. Baseball, you can keep up with college or pro, or as a casual fan you can simply attend a minor league game as another option. So, essentially... the minor league system hurts college.
2. College baseball starts in February, and in the north it is too cold for a lot of casual fans to want to attend those games. By the time it gets warm for some northern teams the season is practically over.
3. Due to number 2 there is not a following in the north where most of the TV audience and targeted TV audience lives. Therefore, the baseball games are not on television very much. When was the last time you saw a big time rivalry baseball game on ESPN that wasn't in the CWS? Never. We're lucky they've started to put it on ESPNU.
4. Baseball purists hated college baseball for years due to the metal bats and the inflated offensive numbers. Many fans of baseball will never watch college until they go to wood bats. Personally, I think the new bats have really improved the game and add a good mix of purism with practicability.
I don't think that juniors leaving has anything to do with college baseball not being successful. I think the biggest hindrance is that it starts during cold months and the northern schools have always been bad at it because of this, which means that most of the northeast does not give two shakes about college baseball, which destroys your TV audience.
Hey STUCK!
Sorry, I did not mean for that to be personal. But, yes, it does sound (and look) personal because I tagged it to your OP. I meant "you" in the general sense of those fans who constantly disparage their rival regardless of their rival's accomplishments. More correctly, I should have said: "...makes such fans look...". And, yeah, UofL has those fans as well.
UK and UofL are very close in RPI rankings. Nolan has UofL #19 and UK #20. NCAA has UK #19 and UofL #20. Hardly any difference there. And #9 RPI LSU who was going to make #10 RPI Houston "go away as quickly as they came" loses 12-2 in Red Stick.
Series-wise, UK went 2-1 against UofL, UofL swept Houston 3-0, Houston got LSU 2-1 and LSU got UK 2-1. That looks like a lot of parity to me. Sure the SEC is a tough baseball league but SEC teams get rewarded for that, 10 bids this year including five #1 seeds and four #2 seeds. I'm inclined to think a UofL team who has been in ranked in the top 5 to 15 most of the year would have made that 10 team tournament cut.
Other than Prado being the coach, I can't remember too much about UofL baseball before McDonnell took over. In his 8 seasons in the dugout UofL has seen 7 NCAA appearances resulting in 2 CWS and 4 Supers. Going into this weekend the Cards are 22-15 in NCAA play with another CWS berth on the line.
So when you dismiss that kind of performance as a "myth" it really sounds a lot more like sour grape than intelligent baseball talk. And "assertions", without substantiating facts, are simply unsubstantiated opinions.
And the absolute last thing I expect on this board is "validation".
Peace
1) Not sure what to say about LSU and Houston except that it's baseball and strange things happen sometimes. I was shocked by the result.Originally posted by WildCard:
Hey STUCK!
Sorry, I did not mean for that to be personal. But, yes, it does sound (and look) personal because I tagged it to your OP. I meant "you" in the general sense of those fans who constantly disparage their rival regardless of their rival's accomplishments. More correctly, I should have said: "...makes such fans look...". And, yeah, UofL has those fans as well.
UK and UofL are very close in RPI rankings. Nolan has UofL #19 and UK #20. NCAA has UK #19 and UofL #20. Hardly any difference there. And #9 RPI LSU who was going to make #10 RPI Houston "go away as quickly as they came" loses 12-2 in Red Stick.
Series-wise, UK went 2-1 against UofL, UofL swept Houston 3-0, Houston got LSU 2-1 and LSU got UK 2-1. That looks like a lot of parity to me. Sure the SEC is a tough baseball league but SEC teams get rewarded for that, 10 bids this year including five #1 seeds and four #2 seeds. I'm inclined to think a UofL team who has been in ranked in the top 5 to 15 most of the year would have made that 10 team tournament cut.
Other than Prado being the coach, I can't remember too much about UofL baseball before McDonnell took over. In his 8 seasons in the dugout UofL has seen 7 NCAA appearances resulting in 2 CWS and 4 Supers. Going into this weekend the Cards are 22-15 in NCAA play with another CWS berth on the line.
So when you dismiss that kind of performance as a "myth" it really sounds a lot more like sour grape than intelligent baseball talk. And "assertions", without substantiating facts, are simply unsubstantiated opinions.
And the absolute last thing I expect on this board is "validation".
Peace
2) I think you and I would probably agree that rankings are generally meaningless and uninformed. Rankings usually move each week based on who won and who lost and with little regard to who the wins come against. UL has benefitted from this flawed system in baseball and in football for years and years. Plus, rankings are not considered by selection committees (at least, not in theory).
3) Regarding the RPI, that basically tells me that A) UL should not have hosted b/c they were not one of the 16 best teams in the country, B) or UK / UL both got the shaft b/c the host team should not have to play a team that is ranked one spot below it unless that team is the lowest ranked host and is facing the highest ranked #2 as it's regional second seed (doesn't seem likely that's how the committee viewed it as teams like Miss State seemed to be higher in the hosting pecking order).
4) I don't think UK was rewarded for its season. We play in the toughest college baseball conference, win a ton of games against good-to-great teams, have the national player of the year, and are "rewarded" by having to go and play on a rival's homefield that lives to beat us and after already having beaten them twice home-and-away during the year. Throw in that UL is either one spot above or below UK in RPI and that makes no sense to me.
5) UL has had some very good all-sports accomplishments in the past few years. No one can deny that. My point is that many of these accomplishments deserve an asterisk because they were built on a false premise (i.e. that UL is a national power deserving of high rankings and high seeds and homefield advantages that were not merited). I'd feel differently if UL's results were based on teams that were seeded or placed appropriately, and UL had to fight through tougher conditions in order to achieve the same results. If UL continues to have the same level of achievement in baseball while playing in the ACC, then I will gladly acknowledge that they're simply out-competing UK.
Last year the Cards had to go to SEC power Vanderbilt (and I believe they had one of the top 8 national rankings). We went 2-0 to go to the CWS. McDonnell's teams have done it at home and on the road, and when you have never even been to a Super and you're talking about a team that has been to 4 and 2 CWS in the last 8 years, you just aren't performing anywhere close to that, regardless of any excuses you make.
Louisville has benefitted in certain sports from a weak schedule...they are able to have players learn on job against lesser opponents, and guys are able to remain a little more fresh than if they were playing stiff competition. This also inflates their records and perception.
Louisville is able to draw better opportunities through this, example being hosting regionals.
The thing about UL though is that they absolutely take advantage of these opportunities and usually perform at a high level after receiving them...credit to them as it has been a successful model, and that is what it is all about.
I think they will start to draw mid tier bowl games and middle seeds in the regionals after going through the ACC though.
Louisville is able to draw better opportunities through this, example being hosting regionals.
The thing about UL though is that they absolutely take advantage of these opportunities and usually perform at a high level after receiving them...credit to them as it has been a successful model, and that is what it is all about.
I think they will start to draw mid tier bowl games and middle seeds in the regionals after going through the ACC though.
The Cards also were gifted with a 1 seed in the regional and got to welcome OSU and Miami into their house to even get to the super regional against Vandy. Nothing that you say above disputes what I have outlined here.
I also dispute your comparison b/c A) UK has performed quite well head-to-head against UL over the years, and B) if UL had to play in a conference as tough as the SEC, it is doubtful that you would have anywhere near the results that you have had.
Truth.
No doubt that they deserve credit for taking advantage of the opportunities that have been GIVEN (literally) to them. Credit them for that.
Doesn't change the fact that they have been given too many gifts, but your summary is spot on.
Now that's more like it!
The SEC is terrific football, baseball, softball conference. Maybe a few other sports. But the fact is that not everyone can prove themselves in the SEC. There are over 100 FBS football teams that cannot play an SEC schedule and I don't know how many baseball teams that cannot. So at some point you have to look at those non-SEC teams and go by what you see.
I don't know how UofL will fare in the ACC. Other than men and women's basketball, the Cards take a big step up in competition next year. We'll see how it goes. But everyone is looking forward to it.
Peace
Let's face it, baseball is whacko. U of L beat Vandy at Vandy last year, but couldn't beat IU. Vandy was much better than IU.
All you can do is play who is on your schedule to the best of your ability. U of L has done a great job of that the last several years.
All you can do is play who is on your schedule to the best of your ability. U of L has done a great job of that the last several years.
UL Baseball is a myth Reply
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Don't let this win yesterday fool you. If UL was in the SEC and UK was in the American candyass league, then UK would have been hosting this weekend, UL would have been a 3 seed (or perhaps not even have qualified for the tourney), and UL would not even have the chance to go to a super regional, much less the CWS.
UK beat UL twice this year and is the better team. UL probably has a better coach (sadly enough), but you simply can't compare the two teams' resumes. Not even close. UL has virtually no quality wins this year, save for a win over Vandy and last night against UK. They swept Houston, but whoopty-doo, Houston will lose to LSU and go away as quickly as they came.
Once UL is in the ACC, they will realize that it's harder to win when you actually have to play someone each week. It's happened at Utah. It's happened at TCU. It's happened to WVU. Those schools all had good success in various revenue (or in this case pseudo-revenue) sports, and then reality smacked them in the face once they play real competition.
UL will be an afterthought, let them enjoy this house of cards (pun intended) that they have built.
I want to put the emphasis on baseball rather than be adversary in a rivalry. I thought Comebakatz3 comments in this thread were insightful and honest. I don't think any team likes or want to lose to their rival. It can be painful. I felt compelled to make a post not for validation, but to offer a different perspective.
First of all, STUCKNBIG10 I don't think you get the respect of many people using terms like "canyass league" when you post or when you say "I'll respond to the UK fans, don't give two shits about the card fan who feels the need to chime in."
You say that your "opinions are not ignorant," yet I don't think you talk about the facts.
You talk about the "myth of U o L baseball," not the facts. Any interpretation of the facts are the individual's - yours or other fans. The facts, I believe, is that with McDonnell at the helm; U of L may have progressed more in baseball than in any other sport at U of L. I believe that I heard that before McDonnell, U of L had no NCAA wins in baseball.
- Following last weekend's NCAA Regional action, Louisville is the only program from last year's College World Series field still playing in this year's NCAA Championship.
- Louisville is one of 16 Division I schools with four or more NCAA Super Regional appearances in the last eight seasons (since 2007).
These are the facts. Any interpretation of these facts (like "the myth of U of L baseball), are yours.
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Don't let this win yesterday fool you. If UL was in the SEC and UK was in the American candyass league, then UK would have been hosting this weekend, UL would have been a 3 seed (or perhaps not even have qualified for the tourney), and UL would not even have the chance to go to a super regional, much less the CWS.
UK beat UL twice this year and is the better team. UL probably has a better coach (sadly enough), but you simply can't compare the two teams' resumes. Not even close. UL has virtually no quality wins this year, save for a win over Vandy and last night against UK. They swept Houston, but whoopty-doo, Houston will lose to LSU and go away as quickly as they came.
Once UL is in the ACC, they will realize that it's harder to win when you actually have to play someone each week. It's happened at Utah. It's happened at TCU. It's happened to WVU. Those schools all had good success in various revenue (or in this case pseudo-revenue) sports, and then reality smacked them in the face once they play real competition.
UL will be an afterthought, let them enjoy this house of cards (pun intended) that they have built.
I want to put the emphasis on baseball rather than be adversary in a rivalry. I thought Comebakatz3 comments in this thread were insightful and honest. I don't think any team likes or want to lose to their rival. It can be painful. I felt compelled to make a post not for validation, but to offer a different perspective.
First of all, STUCKNBIG10 I don't think you get the respect of many people using terms like "canyass league" when you post or when you say "I'll respond to the UK fans, don't give two shits about the card fan who feels the need to chime in."
You say that your "opinions are not ignorant," yet I don't think you talk about the facts.
You talk about the "myth of U o L baseball," not the facts. Any interpretation of the facts are the individual's - yours or other fans. The facts, I believe, is that with McDonnell at the helm; U of L may have progressed more in baseball than in any other sport at U of L. I believe that I heard that before McDonnell, U of L had no NCAA wins in baseball.
- Following last weekend's NCAA Regional action, Louisville is the only program from last year's College World Series field still playing in this year's NCAA Championship.
- Louisville is one of 16 Division I schools with four or more NCAA Super Regional appearances in the last eight seasons (since 2007).
These are the facts. Any interpretation of these facts (like "the myth of U of L baseball), are yours.
Blame the NCAA for giving an advantage to programs to hosts regionals and super regionals, not U of L. Baseball has done this for a long time; other NCAA sports do not. The SEC has benefited a lot by this process.
You said that "UK beat UL twice this year and is the better team." Well, that is your opinion; not a fact. But if you claim to know baseball, I would beg to say that a mid-week game during the season means a lot less than the NCAA tournament or even a weekend series. Is the team getting better during the season and playing their best baseball at the post season? Baseball is different, too, in that more games are played. Virginia was preseason number one and also number one towards the end of the year and they had 13 losses.
Know your facts. You said "but whoopty-doo, Houston will lose to LSU and go away as quickly as they came." "Lowly" Houston beat LSU. Ten SEC teams made the regional NCAA tournament. The AAC and SEC both have 2 left.
You also seem to be projecting doom and gloom for the U of L program going into the ACC. This is not fact, but your opinion. Stay with the facts. Like another poster said, I think the U of L will get better recruits and raise their level of play again.
You said that "UK beat UL twice this year and is the better team." Well, that is your opinion; not a fact. But if you claim to know baseball, I would beg to say that a mid-week game during the season means a lot less than the NCAA tournament or even a weekend series. Is the team getting better during the season and playing their best baseball at the post season? Baseball is different, too, in that more games are played. Virginia was preseason number one and also number one towards the end of the year and they had 13 losses.
Know your facts. You said "but whoopty-doo, Houston will lose to LSU and go away as quickly as they came." "Lowly" Houston beat LSU. Ten SEC teams made the regional NCAA tournament. The AAC and SEC both have 2 left.
You also seem to be projecting doom and gloom for the U of L program going into the ACC. This is not fact, but your opinion. Stay with the facts. Like another poster said, I think the U of L will get better recruits and raise their level of play again.
Every time the cards have stepped up in class we have answered the bell. I have no doubt you made all the same doom and gloom predictions when we moved from CUSA to the Big East. Just like then, your predictions of mediocrity are wishful thinking. You 'll have nothing but the hope you're right to sustain you while we are enjoying our fourth super regional in 8 years.
CUSA to Big East was not much of a step up in football and baseball.
And then you stepped down to the AAC, only to go to ACC which is quite a gap.
I think UL will still be a bowl team and a baseball tourney team, but you will likely not be hosting regionals anymore.
WC...agree, not everyone can play an SEC schedule. But, for teams that don't (like UL) and play precious few quality teams, they should be penalized and not rewarded with home regionals and high rankings. That's my point.
I don't need, or desire, the respect of UL trolls who are on the UK board trying to seek validation. UL plays in a candyass league, I think most reasonable posters (UK or UL) would agree with that statement.
You are right about one thing: it is my OPINION that UL baseball is a myth. I have backed up that statement. There is no definitive way to prove that statement. You can point out McDonnell's NCAA wins and regionals and I will point out that they are tainted b/c UL has been gifted with favorable homefield regionals and draws that are undeserved IMO. It is like Duke in basketball. Do they have great history and a ton of wins? Yes. Have they been helped with favorable draws and homecourt advantage just about every single year by playing the first two rounds in the state of north carolina? Yes.
Are you in 4th grade and mom let you use the computer for the first time? Read the entirety of my thoughts, as I have already addressed some of this:
1) UL used the same pitcher for the NCAA tourney game that they used for the mid-week games (that in your view mean nothing). Does that mean that the NCAA game vs. UK means less than the Friday game against Kent State b/c you used your #1 pitcher for the Kent state game? Your logic makes no sense.
2) I do know my facts. I was shocked that LSU lost to Houston, and I said as much in a reply to WC. If you think the AAC is half the league that the SEC is, then you don't know baseball. The talent and coaching disparity is tremendous between the two leagues. Baseball is a funny game, I'm surprised that so many SEC teams were upset last weekend.
3) I don't need your permission to give my opinion on a UK message board. I do project a fall (relatively speaking) for UL in all sports. It doesn't mean that UL sucks, it just means that UL will actually have to play real competition on a consistent basis. If you want strictly facts, go to Encyclopedia Brittanica. This is a message board. I give an opinion and try to back it up with facts or reasonable thoughts to support my opinion.
I guess the same could be said about UK basketball. Great postseason record, but it's all really because they've benefitted from playing in a historically second-rate basketball conference and piling up wins during the regular season. Leads to great seeding and all.
See how ridiculous that sounds?
It sounds ridiculous b/c it's a poor analogy on your part. Here's why:
1) UK basketball generally plays one of the more challenging OOC schedules in the country. UL does not do so in baseball or in football.
2) The SEC has not always been a poor basketball conference (though it is now). There have been prolonged periods of excellence for the SEC in basketball, especially the 90s adn early 2000s with teams like LSU and Miss State and Fla joining UK in the final four, along with teams like Tennessee making the elite 8, Georgia doing well under Tubby Smith, etc. Certainly, the SEC is a better basketball conference (even in its current state) than the AAC is in football or baseball, and it's not even close.
3) UK is typically not rewarded with homecourt advantages in basketball there was no opportunity for this prior to the YUM center.
Nice try.
STUCK:
Sorry you can't discuss anything intelligently without
silly attacks. I didn't intend for my words to be painful, but I guess
they were to you.
You give U of K fans a bad name.
Mark Twain said it best:
This post was edited on 6/6 2:17 PM by baseonballs
This post was edited on 6/6 2:17 PM by baseonballs
Sorry you can't discuss anything intelligently without
silly attacks. I didn't intend for my words to be painful, but I guess
they were to you.
You give U of K fans a bad name.
Mark Twain said it best:
This post was edited on 6/6 2:17 PM by baseonballs
This post was edited on 6/6 2:17 PM by baseonballs
LOLOL. You come on a UK message board to lecture me about using facts instead of opinions even though this is a UK message board designed for opinions on UK (not UL, but UK) and NCAA baseball and then you get butthurt over getting called out for making stupid statements. Good riddance.Originally posted by baseonballs:
STUCK:
Sorry you can't discuss anything intelligently without
silly attacks. I didn't intend for my words to be painful, but I guess
they were to you.
You give U of K fans a bad name.
Mark Twain said it best:
This post was edited on 6/6 2:17 PM by baseonballs
This post was edited on 6/6 2:17 PM by baseonballs
If you want opinions, here's one from Aaron Fitt of Baseball America.
LOUISVILLE - Rivalry games usually deliver good theater. They don't always provide good baseball, as heightened emotions can also lead to extra anxiety and more mistakes. That was the case in a sloppy elimination game between Rice and Texas A&M on Sunday in regionals.
The Louisville Regional championship game between the host Cardinals and in-state rival Kentucky wasn't exactly a work of art, but it was surprisingly well played considering the two teams had to wait out a four-hour rain delay and play through a steady rain for much of the night. And the first-ever NCAA tournament game between the two Bluegrass State rivals gave a rowdy, soggy crowd all the intensity, passion and theater it could have wanted.
Two home-plate collisions led to two benches-clearing incidents, ramping up emotions in a game that was destined to be emotional. But Louisville has superb leadership from its fine coaching staff and its core of Omaha-tested upperclassmen, and the Cardinals never let their focus waver on Sunday night. Louisville has proven it knows how to win in the postseason;
Kentucky is still trying to get over the hump past the regional round for the first time in program history.
From "Louisville Reinforces Status As Dominant Bluegrass State Power"
Baseball America link:
This post was edited on 6/6 2:36 PM by baseonballs
http://www.baseballamerica.com/college/louisville-reinforces-status-as-dominant-bluegrass-state-power/
LOUISVILLE - Rivalry games usually deliver good theater. They don't always provide good baseball, as heightened emotions can also lead to extra anxiety and more mistakes. That was the case in a sloppy elimination game between Rice and Texas A&M on Sunday in regionals.
The Louisville Regional championship game between the host Cardinals and in-state rival Kentucky wasn't exactly a work of art, but it was surprisingly well played considering the two teams had to wait out a four-hour rain delay and play through a steady rain for much of the night. And the first-ever NCAA tournament game between the two Bluegrass State rivals gave a rowdy, soggy crowd all the intensity, passion and theater it could have wanted.
Two home-plate collisions led to two benches-clearing incidents, ramping up emotions in a game that was destined to be emotional. But Louisville has superb leadership from its fine coaching staff and its core of Omaha-tested upperclassmen, and the Cardinals never let their focus waver on Sunday night. Louisville has proven it knows how to win in the postseason;
Kentucky is still trying to get over the hump past the regional round for the first time in program history.
From "Louisville Reinforces Status As Dominant Bluegrass State Power"
Baseball America link:
This post was edited on 6/6 2:36 PM by baseonballs
http://www.baseballamerica.com/college/louisville-reinforces-status-as-dominant-bluegrass-state-power/
They are one win away from their third trip to Omaha in 8 years. I prefer to avoid the ostrich approach and deal in what is. They are VERY well coached and they seemingly always play to their strengths. If folks think they are going away anytime soon with Jurich at the helm in any sport you probably are going to be disappointed. I would much rather see us rise to the occassion in baseball and football like we have in basketball. Until we do that posts such as Bit 10's and a few others really appear to be the sourest of grapes. I would agree on paper that "candy ass" league would appear to be weak but youre talking about the reigning basketball national champs, quite possible 1/4 of the Omaha field and their football champ beat Baylors head in out in the Fiesta. They had a pretty successful year in those three sports. Fair or not they did this within the rules laid before them so Im struggling to find an angle that can validly discredit them. I hope you keep that argument on our board because I would be embarrassed to hear a fellow fan talking like that in a mixed crowd, it makes us look very petty and clearly in the wrong to everyone not rooting for our team or against theirs.
It's not sour grapes, it's how I see it. Obviously, you disagree.
My theory is not that farfetched. Greats such as Bobby Bowden have agreed with theories like mine...wayyyyy back in the late 80s and early 90s, Bobby Bowden wanted no part of joining the SEC. He knew damn well that it's tougher to win national titles going through that meat grinder than it is going through the ACC and at that time playing maybe one tough conference game a year (Clemson?) and then Miami and FSU in the OOC (Miami did not join the conference until much later).
Again, I did not say that UL baseball sucks. It doesn't. I just said that the idea that they're a national power and deserving of the treatment that they get (home regionals, praise as a "national power") is a myth. Period. If UK and UL were to be paired in a regional this year, then we should have been the host.
Look I HATE LOUISVILLE!!!!!...But, if UK was the one going to four super regionals and on the verge of 3 CWS in the last eight years what would you say about us...??...We would be a national power...Now when they go into the ACC next yr. in bb it might be a different story, but right now they have a program and a coach that I would love for us to copy...There is no hiding that...They are winning when it matters...And they are getting to host because UL has $$$$sters that are willing to help the AD and administration build something other than basketball...
They don't get to host b/c of money. They get to host b/c they were seeded higher by the NCAA committee. As I have said 28 times on this thread, you have to give UL credit for taking advantage of the opportunities that it has been given. I just think they have been GIVEN (LITERALLY) too much credit by the media and too many advantageous situations by the NCAA. That's it,
Louisville heading to the CWS once again. I understand that playing in a lesser league certainly helps them to be able to host and helps them in their post season success, but they have still gotten the job done themselves. They have won when it matters and that is an outstanding feat. You have to give them a ton of credit for such.
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