Yea, those 2 refs in their starting lineup really drive up the average age a lot though.
UK vs duke
- Thread starter WeWant9
- Start date
"Starting 7"? Basketball is 5 on 5 bro
Maybe. But last year they had 4th year Roach, a lottery pick who "decided" to come back for a 2nd year, Proctor who was on his way to being a lottery pick.. and a plethora of other holdovers and top recruits. On top of that, that team had a fair amount of experience with each other, and in the system. And yet, they couldn't win a VERY mediocre ACC, and they only moved past the 2nd weekend because of several top players being injured on teams like Houston and JMU.
The only thing I like better for them this year, is if Flagg or someone else turns out to be a transcendent player for them, something they didn't have this past year.
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Duke 2023-24:
Duke has two returning player that played significant minutes last year. Both of them are well below average in PER and Offensive rating. Their defensive ratings are right at average.
Maliq Brown helps Duke both offensively and defensively. Mason Gillis helps defensively but is a tick below Proctor and Foster defensively. Sion James is a was top-35 offensive player in the portal but was #138 defensively. Sheffield is a wait and see.
Of the players that are coming in with college experience, only Brown gives them any hope of being strong having any defensive at the start of the season.
Their freshmen are:
Khaman Maluach (C)
Patrick Ngongba (C)
Flagg (F)
Kon Knueppel (G)
Isaiah Evans (F)
Darren Harris (G)
Given that our game is right at the start of the season, and we have strong offensive and defensive guards, that could spell trouble for them. I would take Williams and Garrison in game number two or three on the season over a bunch of freshmen in the front court. Even if they're getting Anthony Davis part two, I would take Williams in the early games. Williams is really good.
Anything can happen between today and November, but I think I would lean Kentucky right now if I had to pick. Too many unknowns on the Duke roster, especially since there isn't a guy on the team right now that can play lock down defense. That's what ended up killing us last year. We could score a hundred points but give up one-hundred and one.
| Player | G | GS | MP | PER | ORtg | DRtg |
| Kyle Filipowski | 36 | 36 | 1095 | 26 | 117.3 | 94.5 |
| Sean Stewart | 33 | 0 | 275 | 22.5 | 121.4 | 89.3 |
| Mark Mitchell | 33 | 32 | 945 | 20 | 122 | 100.6 |
| Jared McCain | 36 | 36 | 1137 | 19.4 | 124 | 101.2 |
| Jeremy Roach | 35 | 33 | 1144 | 18.3 | 124.4 | 104 |
| Ryan Young | 36 | 2 | 424 | 15.6 | 115.7 | 97.7 |
| Tyrese Proctor | 32 | 25 | 974 | 14.4 | 116.7 | 104.2 |
| Caleb Foster | 27 | 15 | 685 | 11.7 | 112.7 | 104.6 |
| Jaylen Blakes | 31 | 1 | 285 | 11.6 | 115 | 97.3 |
| TJ Power | 26 | 0 | 181 | 10.8 | 111.2 | 103.3 |
| Christian Reeves | 3 | 0 | 16 | 10.2 | 86.1 | 96 |
| Spencer Hubbard | 10 | 0 | 22 | 1.6 | 94.5 | 103.9 |
| Neal Begovich | 8 | 0 | 17 | 1.3 | 68 | 104.3 |
Duke has two returning player that played significant minutes last year. Both of them are well below average in PER and Offensive rating. Their defensive ratings are right at average.
Maliq Brown helps Duke both offensively and defensively. Mason Gillis helps defensively but is a tick below Proctor and Foster defensively. Sion James is a was top-35 offensive player in the portal but was #138 defensively. Sheffield is a wait and see.
Of the players that are coming in with college experience, only Brown gives them any hope of
Their freshmen are:
Khaman Maluach (C)
Patrick Ngongba (C)
Flagg (F)
Kon Knueppel (G)
Isaiah Evans (F)
Darren Harris (G)
Given that our game is right at the start of the season, and we have strong offensive and defensive guards, that could spell trouble for them. I would take Williams and Garrison in game number two or three on the season over a bunch of freshmen in the front court. Even if they're getting Anthony Davis part two, I would take Williams in the early games. Williams is really good.
Anything can happen between today and November, but I think I would lean Kentucky right now if I had to pick. Too many unknowns on the Duke roster, especially since there isn't a guy on the team right now that can play lock down defense. That's what ended up killing us last year. We could score a hundred points but give up one-hundred and one.
Maybe now and in the future, but is has been 5 on 7 during the K years.
I agree. Scheyer did an excellent job in the portal to supplement his freshmen-heavy team. I am honestly surprised at him going that way. Duke will be a really good team.
They are frontcourt heavy:
Maluach
Ngongba
Flagg - will most definitely start
Evans
Brown - I would assume expects to start
Gillis - probably wants to start after having great numbers at Purdue and playing sixth man
Sheffield - surprises me he transferred into this situation
That's three five-star freshmen, one four-star, and two of the top-rated offensive transfers in the nation (Gillis #2, Brown #3). They definitely have talent. Will Scheyer resort to platooning at the 3-5 spots?
It will be interesting to see this play out. Those are six really good players, and Sheffield who is questionable.
I do think Duke is weak(er) at the guard spot. I'm not sure about Knueppel (nipple?) or Evans. Foster and Proctor don't impress me.
They should be really good by season's end. I think defense will struggle at the beginning.
Funny you bring that up.. almost NO ONE here was thinking he was going to be some automatic star. A lot of us were a little worried that he might be getting a little too hyped up.
But even then, he WAS the #1 recruit in his class for like 6 years running. It wasn't wild to think DJ would be a top10 draft pick and a standout player.
But it was absurd for Duke fans to come to a KENTUCKY forum to tell us a sophomore averaging 10ppg (Proctor) was heading for a top5 pick.
LOL.
Flagg alone makes them way more talented this year. He's as good as advertised.
I feel better with a veteran team than a freshman-sophomore team early in the season. That’s for sure. I do expect Flagg to be the best Dukie since Paolo.
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With the way college game is trending toward the experienced teams anymore. I think we take Duke in that game by 10+. Our experience will be the big deciding factor in the game.
I believe he probably is, too. I'm glad we are playing them early.. for the same reasons I hated when the CC hurt Cal's teams. Great-but-young talent doesn't often win big games in November and December.
According to this guy Flagg is overrated.
Of course, you can pick any player and destroy him but the guy is making some decent points.
Of course, you can pick any player and destroy him but the guy is making some decent points.
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How many recruits have made drastic improvements under Scheyer and his staff?
Strikes me is the type of player that a fifth year senior defensive specialist like Lamont Butler can rattle. I guarantee you he's played no one in high school that resembles Butler's reflexes strength and conditioning and Court awareness, or a wall to run into like Williams, we will see though.
Please beat Duke at all costs!!!
Look, I'm not going to undersell Flagg's talent. There's a reason he's one of the most hyped recruits since Andrew Wiggins. I think the best we can hope for is for someone to just sort of contain him. Like you said, maybe Butler can just rattle him enough so he's only marginally effective.
Stopping a guy like Flagg is going to be a tall order, and just because I hate Duke, doesn't mean I can't give them credit where it's due.
Kentucky should
1. Be the better shooting team
2. Athletically comparable
3. Deeper
4. More experienced
5. Better coaching.
I like their chances.
These are very good and helpful videos to watch to give you an insight into what players will face as they step up to the college level. It shows you how a basketball aware mind can pick things apart and how much coaching matters as well. I remember Tyler ulis always flanking these players from the weak side and stripping the ball from them as they went up for a dunk, I don't see a John Wall or Anthony Davis but he's definitely very good.
Oh he's going to be a great player no question but there are some habits and issues typical of freshmen he has. I don't see wall athleticism for Davis length or great shooting but definitely a good distributor and that's huge at that height. Never know till gametime go big blue 💙
I do not think you know near what you think you do. Brown the STAR for Syracuse ? I mean if the 5th leading scorer is the star, I guess you are right. LOL, Judah Mintz was the STAR for Syracue.
Gillis a GREAT rebounder ? If you consider 3.8 rebounds per game great. Guess you and I have different opinions about great. He can shoot 3's, but only took 3.2 per game, making 1.5. Low volume. Averaged 6.5 ppg, so didn't make many 2's or get to the line much either.
Cameron Sheffield "good 3 point shooter". OK, played 31 minutes per game for a horrible Rice team, but only averaged 7.6 points per game. Shot 37% from 3, only taking 3.4 per game, making 1.3. IF he was that good, he would have shot, scored more for a 11-21 Rice team. Role player.
These were very low ranked transers, and for good reason.. as I said, these guys aren't starting over the 5* freshman, they were brought in because Duke still needed a bench. Duke wasn't going to get Omoruyi when they had a top center coming in. Someone would have been leaving.
They are the 63rd, 68th and 92nd ranked guys.. Duke's success is going to hinge on whether they can get this freshman class up to speed, and quickly.. there are still 5th and 6th year players in college with the COVID rule, so they have a LOT of ground to cover.
How is Gillis (6.5 ppg) and Brown (9 ppg and 5th leading scorer on his team) be top offensive players in the portal ? Maybe my idea of offense is different than yours.
Duke owns us lately. Have won 4 of the last 5. I would expect them to win. They will be favored.
Gillis avg 6 ppg on a final 4 team lol. I've watched him his entire career and he's nothing to be concerned about.
I hope we get a win. That series has been a curse to us and the last time we've won there was 2019.
Just curious if Brown and Gills were on a Kentucky roaster you would maintain the same opinion?
Offensive efficiency.
Mason Gillis: 137.4
Maliq Brown: 135
Here are the numbers:
Jason Edwards, who played for North Texas (highest ppg for players in the portal over 1,000 minutes that I could find), averaged 19.1 ppg on 14.8 shots per game. Mason Gillis averaged 6.5 ppg on 4 shots per game, Maliq Brown 9.5 ppg on 5.7 shots per game. If Gillis takes the same number of shots as Edwards per game, he averages 24 ppg, Brown averages 24.7 ppg.
It doesn't matter how many points per game you average, if your points aren't efficient, they're useless.
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This game should be competitive, honestly I do think UK should edge this win out. UK benefits from playing this Duke team early, they have two extremely talented freshmen in Flagg and in Maluch, that will both probably go to 10 maybe top 5 in the draft.
Proctor, if healthy is a handful, don’t let his numbers fool you last year, he got hurt early. Same with Foster, kid was taking roaches touches before breaking his ankle against Wake Forest, disrupting their offense.
I think playing this Duke team in November is a blessing playing this Duke team in February if these freshmen develop, which is a big if, could be a nightmare due to how talented their front court will be.
Proctor, if healthy is a handful, don’t let his numbers fool you last year, he got hurt early. Same with Foster, kid was taking roaches touches before breaking his ankle against Wake Forest, disrupting their offense.
I think playing this Duke team in November is a blessing playing this Duke team in February if these freshmen develop, which is a big if, could be a nightmare due to how talented their front court will be.
That makes sense.
You can look at raw stats, you can look at PER, but the truth probably lies somewhere in between.
If I'm coaching, I'm looking at analytics, player fit, and most of all player personality. I want those guys that want it. I know that's hard to evaluate (though I do think defensive numbers are telling in that regard), but I want those guys who go to work after losses instead of sulking in defeat; those dudes who take losses as opportunities to strengthen weaknesses and make themselves better for the next moment. Also, I want those guys who want their teammates to thrive as much as their own success.
What does who they play for have do with if they are stars or not ? Brown was the 5th leading scorer on a bad Syracuse team and Gillis was a low volume shooter / low scorer at Purdue. Just curious, take my UK fan out of the equation. What did the experts rank these guy in the portal ? Think they are partial to their favorite team to ?
You can use all of the data you want, they where both low volume shooters / scorers. IF they where that great on offense, why did they average 6.5 points and 9.5 points ? Brown played 30 mpg, Gillis over 21 mpg.
Well, a quick look at Syracuse's stats for the year, and Judah Mintz, their leading scorer, also boasted an ORtg of 108. He was taking 22 shots per game, making 9.6 (43.8%). JJ Starling, their second-leading scorer, had an ORtg of 102.8, shooting 18.8 shots per game and making 8.6. Of their 59.8 shots per game, 40 of them were going to those two. Chris Bell was their number three, with an ORtg of 113.5, shooting 9.7 shots per game, Quadir Copeland number four at 106.3, shooting 7.0 shots per game. That left about three shots per game for the rest of the roster. If I had a player with an ORtg 21.5 points higher than the next best guy, I would be looking at getting that guy some more shots per game. So what if he fails? You have to get him looks and make him fail before giving those shots to other guys.
One of the reasons Maliq Brown's ORtg is so high is due to his rebounding. He led the team in rebounding, so he was probably getting a lot of his points on put-back layups. Maybe that is the role best suited for him. He only shot nineteen three-pointers (7-19) on the year, but it seems he can shoot. Just looking at the numbers, I think his coaching staff failed to put him in position to get more looks. I would do that until his numbers go one way or the other.
Mason Gillis was buried on a very good Purdue team. Cam Heide and Gillis both had very high ORtgs, but they were behind Edey (135.0), where the offense began, Fletcher Lover (120.1), Braden Smith (117.6), Lance Jones (112.6), and Trey Kaufman-Renn (116.9).
Again, coaching is a factor here. Mason Gillis had the highest 3PT% (46.8%) on the team (of those players who took more than 50 attempts). Yet, Painter gave the green light to Lance Jones (35.7%) to shoot a hundred more threes than Gillis. If I'm coaching, I'm making that guy shooting 46.8% miss by getting him to take more shots until his numbers rise or fall.
To answer your question: I think they failed to average more because their coaches failed to utilize them properly.
I am Kentucky fan. That does not stop me to appreciate other teams good players or coaches, because I like the game.
Here is the opinion from ACC network about Brown:
“Sophomore forward Maliq Brown became the man patrolling the middle for Syracuse last season. Brown was the ACC leader in steals with 2.2 per game, while also averaging 7.2 rebounds, and 0.9 blocks per game, several of which were some real WOW blocks. Those numbers are why he was named to the ACC All-Defense Team for this past year. He was also putting up 9.5 points per game on offense on 69.8% shooting. “
My opinion he will be an upgrade to Mitchell and will be starting PF for Duke.
I could be very wrong as I have been thousands of times but I don’t see Flagg as an over the top type of talent. He’s good and will have an NBA career but he’s not as good as advertised in my opinion. I look for him to average 14-16 a game and be a lottery pick, not someone to carry a team, though.
I remember when they got Filipowski or however you spell his name. Our fans here were claiming he was the next big thing, I had my doubts then too.
I’m not saying he’s not good, I’m saying he’s not as good as advertised and will leave college with no major accomplishments.
I remember when they got Filipowski or however you spell his name. Our fans here were claiming he was the next big thing, I had my doubts then too.
I’m not saying he’s not good, I’m saying he’s not as good as advertised and will leave college with no major accomplishments.
9 out of the last 11, but before that, Ky won 10 out 12. Here is what's crazy though. Total points scored in the series:
Ky - 1,689
Duke - 1,693
4 point difference over 23 games. Been some wars!!
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