we are located the middle.
Top of the south. Our advantage is we can promise midwestern recruits a chance to play in the SEC without being too far from home.
UK Football will never be above average. Why? Long.
- Thread starter TNCatfanforever
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Top of the south. Our advantage is we can promise midwestern recruits a chance to play in the SEC without being too far from home.
No one said to back off funding for basketball. Just spend more on football. Football should be outspending basketball anyway.
I see where many have called you a Vanderbilt fan in the past. This post seems to confirm it. Were you salivating at the thought of being able to write this dog sh*t post ?
Told you guys as soon as UK lost, the Raftards would come here in droves
You are correct, 100%. Calipari should have never vocalized it, but UK is and always will be a basketball school.
I'm not sure why this is so difficult for folks to understand. Also, everything you said about the recruiting and location, etc is 100% accurate. Our fans don't want to admit it, but it is true.
All that said, Stoops probably needs to move on. Much like Cal, it has gotten stale and I think the issue is he (Stoops) set a bar that he simply cannot achieve here on a regular basis (10 wins). To be clear, I'm not saying Cal set a bar...he didn't, UKMBB is a different beast, unlike football.
Being known as a “basketball school” isn’t exactly a compliment. It’s just a source of laughter for SEC fans. I don’t know why THIS is so difficult to understand.
Basketball is an afterthought. Like it or not it’s true. Accepting were just a basketball school and being fine with it is accepting mediocrity.
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You're not defined by what other SEC schools think of you, you are defined by what you are successful at.
At UK that's basketball.
It's not like they are going to kick us out of the conference.
Arkansas, South Carolina, Ole Miss and Texas A&M all claim to be football schools but what has any of them accomplished nationally?
I'll take our 8 Natty's in basketball over all of the before mentioned schools combined accomplishments in football.
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Ok, if you want to hop in your Delorian and go fix it you can. You are acting like basketball is some 3rd world sport. Basketball is far from an afterthought. It may be to you, but not the majority of people.
Your comparison would be the equivalent of me saying what the majority of the world thinks about soccer vs. NFL.
It doesn’t matter. Even nationally outside of a few fanbases, basketball is irrelevant.
College BB is second to college FB.
Second not fifth.
I'll take being an 8 time national champion in the second most popular sport .
If you can't be Alabama, Georgia, Ohio St, LSU, Michigan what's so great about being a second tier top 25 football program.
None of those guys are winning shit.
I wouldn't trade our basketball program for Penn St's football program.
They're not winning shit ever again and they would get their ass kicked by Georgia just like we will.
Stoops was doing pretty well before we lost the Big Blue Wall coach. Since then our O line has been hot garbage. Not sure if it's a lack of coaching, talent, injuries or a huge heaping combination of it all. When you have 7 players protecting the QB and they rush 3....and pressure the QB.... Something is wrong. But until the OLine solidifies, it will not matter if we have Tim Couch as QB, we are going to lose, regardless of the talent gap else where.
Most college fb teams ARE second tier, but they are still fighting. Ole Miss was as mediocre as us, but now they are killing it. Alabama was mediocre in the 1990s and early 2000’s.
FB programs keep investing and prioritizing because it makes good business sense. Football is by far the cash cow everywhere except Duke, and it needs to be fostered.
QQ-
Would you rather UK and Ole Miss trade performances on basketball court and football field?
Meaning, have UK be mediocre at bball and really good, boardering elite at football?
The bad news for you is trashing the football program with assertions that are everything from exaggerations to being patently false is not going to help your basketball team win one game. My advise to you is go back to the Rafters where you live the rest of time.
You’re a respectful. Poster and I appreciate that.
As a football guy I’d easily trade 8 NCs in bball for the 6 div champiomships and three ncs. The pageantry and the Grove is awesome. Again, I’m a fb guy. Winning in basketball is nice, I guess, but when you win in football it’s huge.
Ask a ut fan the same question. They only have 2 NCs in fb (1951 and 1958). You’d be surprised . As a UK fan, traveling to other SEC venues opened my eyes. It’s a TRUE celebration .
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Honestly, if we can’t ever be top tier I’d assume just drop fb and change conferences. Getting our asses handed to us by sec teams in fb while our fans Fire back with “wait til basketball season has grown old really fast.
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Well, thanks. I appreciate the honest response and kind words. Admittedly, I'm basketball first. I like the sport more and tradition of UKMBB. I'm not a huge NCAA FB guy, much much prefer the NFL and similarly, but opposite, prefer NCAA BB over NBA.
To each their own. For me, I'd much prefer us be what we've been my whole life in football and eventually catch UCLA in MBB titles prior to me kicking rocks on planet Earth 😂
Nothing wrong with admiring the pageantry of Southern football traditions like the grove but you can't go out and buy that.
I'm under the impression that UK has been spending at a historic(UK) level in regards to the football program.
What aspect of the the football program hasn't been upgraded?
As far as Ole Miss, IMO continuing their recent success depends entirely on the whims of Lane Kiffin.
As far as Natty's for Ole Miss football, I wouldn't have a clue unless I googled it but I'm guessing you would have to at least be 60 to have been alive for it and probably 70 to have actually witnessed it.
I'll take UK's 4 in the television era.
I actually envy our fans that can enjoy both sports and feel like they truly belong to something special. I really do. I honestly tried giving basketball a try, but after my first football game at age 9, I just poured my heart into football. I’m not talented enough to enjoy both, apparently.
I graduated from UK so it’s not like I can start rooting for Alabama or LSU. It’s not a switch I can turn off. In the same vein, I can’t just start liking UK Basketball and be fine with it regardless of football. Losing in football just takes it out of me.
Couple that with the fact our football program was the 1st in the SEC to integrate in the most celebrated sport makes me proud. Those four gentlemen are like heroes to me.
I graduated from UK so it’s not like I can start rooting for Alabama or LSU. It’s not a switch I can turn off. In the same vein, I can’t just start liking UK Basketball and be fine with it regardless of football. Losing in football just takes it out of me.
Couple that with the fact our football program was the 1st in the SEC to integrate in the most celebrated sport makes me proud. Those four gentlemen are like heroes to me.
Add to that: that we are competing against schools within states that all have a much higher high school talent pool due to demographics. It’s why we historically have always taken the 2-3 star scraps from GA/FL and now sneaking in a couple 4s from Ohio/Indiana bc they wanted to play in the SEC.
Alabama and Mississippi are rural like we are…sure. But their depth of talent pool and demographics are vastly different.
People are fooling theirselves if they think we will become a year in and year out top 3 SEC program if we just believe and push all chips in on football. The reality is that we can have some high years like we did, we can maybe backdoor into a conference champ game like Mizzou and USCjr have. But all things come back to the average eventually. Mizzou and USCjr are our peers and beating them is the difference between a great season and a .500 season. There is a reason they’ve been down when we were up and vice versa over the last 20 years (or since Mizz entrance to the league).
Kentucky has to recruit nationally to have any chance. It’s why the people complaining about “stoops hit his ceiling let’s get a new guy to take the next step” were fooling theirselves. The move was always to be a 20-30 ranked team yearly and respected and follow the VT under Beamer or GT before the abandoned the triple option and tried to compete “less gimicky” and “modernize” to be a prostyle. Sustained success/relevancy for 20-30 years is how you rebrand and then maybe you can take the next step bc your program is marketable…not “we just fired the most winning coach in our history for a couple .500 seasons…who wants next”
Complaining about 7-9 wins in this league is wild….and having a shot at backdooring into a 12-16 team playoff once every 5 years while maintaining winning seasons in the “off years” is what the reality is here. Thats the next step. Maybe after another decade of that we can hit a home run up and coming hire.
Truth is… the next hire should be a speed option coach or a spread Mike leach style get the ball out asap style. We aren’t going to win against teams that have 3-4 stringers that are equally rated to our 2 deep.
Lol.
Cracked?
We were ranked more than 15 weeks in those two combined seasons, finishing 12th in 2019. Those combined seasons represent about 15 percent of our ranked weeks since the AP began a poll in 1936.
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Seriously, lots of new names to try and remember.
Heck, I usually enjoy basketball. Cal made me give it up with his attitude.
But even in the best of years for basketball, when I hear our fight song played, I know the words and they don’t match the sport playing on wood.
We finished in the top 15 both 10 win years. Didn’t just “crack” the top 25
Well put.
And still, look at Virginia Tech’s struggles since Beamer retired. Even 20 years of solid football and the “rebrand” is tough.
I hear the pep band over the radio play it at Rupp, and it just doesn’t have the ring it does at CWS. I go nuts when I hear it played outdoors
The notion that in-state recruiting is key to building a rooster is a left over idea from a decade or two ago that is mostly invalid today. First kids now days are more interested in the coach(s) they will be playing for, what type of system they run, what type of success they have putting players into the League, what their current depth chart at their position looks like etc. The biggest geographical consideration isn't what state the school is in but rather is it within reasonable driving range for family and friends. Look at the roster of Georgia for example and you will find half the players are from out of state. Kentucky's close proximity to metro Cincy, Columbus, Nashville and even Detroit has paid off with getting high quality players wanting to play in the SEC. That's a geographical advantage that most other SEC teams don't have. And as far as our current roster goes we aren't "sneaking in a couple of 4 stars", almost half the roster are 4 stars and over 70% of the starters last Saturday were 4 stars. One last thought on recruiting. Kentucky's average recruiting rankings over the last 4 years were higher than the team that was the National runner-up last season Washington. Then you have the portal where Kentucky has continued to bring in high quality talent some from elate teams like Ohio State and Bama. The trend continues up. Kentucky's potential football future can be argued one way or the other but recruiting deficiencies is not legitimately one of them.
Generally agree with that, and there are probably 8-10 SEC teams you could likely say the same thing about. Maybe 3 or 4 years would be a reasonable expectation. But the thing is, unlike basketball, in football you don't have to win a Natty to have a rewarding and exciting season. Every game is a big event, and every win is a celebration unto itself, and reaching the post season and beating a Penn State, or an Iowa is very rewarding. Making it to the playoffs would be great.
Some of the basketball centric might not really appreciate those ten win seasons. Essentially, those season were like a roundball tourney run to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 in basketball, where Brooks Bowl teams were really equivalent to an NIT type season.
And I’ll never say “never.” In 2019, it had been 41 seasons since our last ten win year: it would have been too easy to say that goal was impossible.
Let's take a look at Mark Stoops SEC record since being head coach at Kentucky
2013 = 0-8, 2014 = 2 - 6, 2015= 2 - 6, 2016= 4 - 4, 2017= 4 - 4, 2018= 5 - 3, 2019= 3 - 5, 2020= 4 - 6, 2021= 5 - 3,
2022= 3 - 5, 2023= 3 - 5, 2024= 0 - 1
35 SEC wins.
56 SEC Losses
Please tell me we should even begin to accept that level of success from any football coach. Only Vanderbilt is this bad. We no longer are going to have 4 cupcake games to build a winning record with the results that Stoops has shown with his style of play.
73 wins in 11 years. =. 6.6 wins per year
65 losses in 11 years. =. 5.9 losses per year.
Without our early season warm up games that we have had for years and the SEC going to 9 game conference schedule and atleast one Power 5 out of conference required game, what do you think our chances are to average 6.6 wins per year? Actually how many SEC games do you project we win in 2024? We currently are 0 - 1.
Then basketball is doomed long-term, as well.
This is just not accurate. Of course basketball is not an "afterthought" such as soccer or tennis or golf, but Football is THE dominant sport in America. It's NFL and then college football and there is a large drop-off after that. Even within basketball, college basketball has suffered a big drop-off in popularity since its heyday in the 80s.
Every single expansion and conference realignment decision is made based on A). football and b ) a school's academic reputation. Basketball is not even a consideration (this is why schools like Duke and Kansas don't move the needle at all when expansion candidates for the SEC and Big ten are being considered).
Even at UK, football pays the bills.
Football is the dominant sport and the SEC is the dominant conference. It is also a TV production. It is brand driven. The majority of high end recruits are from the south. This is why UK will struggle. Kentucky isn’t loaded with in state talent the teams they compete against are in the middle of all the talent. Their competition has more resources. They will always recruit better.
Basketball is a different animal. Smaller roster and less interest in having great programs. That is changing however which is why there has been a dip. Teams have gotten better.
The expansion of SEC wasn’t good for UK. Texas has unlimited resources. Oklahoma to a lesser extent. I think Oklahoma is going to regret coming to SEC. I think there other sports will do well but football is going to struggle. They should have stayed in Big 12.
Basketball is a different animal. Smaller roster and less interest in having great programs. That is changing however which is why there has been a dip. Teams have gotten better.
The expansion of SEC wasn’t good for UK. Texas has unlimited resources. Oklahoma to a lesser extent. I think Oklahoma is going to regret coming to SEC. I think there other sports will do well but football is going to struggle. They should have stayed in Big 12.
I agree that expansion is not good for UK football. I don't agree that UK's lack of instate talent spells doom.
Ole Miss is competing at a high level b/c they decided that they want to compete. Mississippi has more talent than Kentucky, but not by a lot AND they have to compete with MSU, LSU, the Alabama schools to keep it there. UK only has to compete with a lesser state school (UL) to keep its home grown talent.
If UK "ponies up" and acts like a big boy, they can be a big boy.
They all pony up. UK will never outbid Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Missouri, and South Carolina. Not to mention Mississippi,Texas, LSU, and Oklahoma. UK did pony up they have talent. Who wouldn’t take their skilled players? They have NFL guys on defense one will be a day 1 pick. They just don’t have enough of them.
The SEC is going to eat their own. The Big Ten is going to do the same. That is why Clemson and FSU wanting to leave the ACC makes zero sense. They can control the success in the ACC. No way they maintain any level of success in SEC or Big Ten. They become a middle of the road team. Clemson needed the ACC to build it national title teams. Arrogance can misguide the best of them.
Winning matters that attracts players as much as money. Always being average doesn’t attract players. Money will get you players but man you need a lot of them.
The SEC is going to eat their own. The Big Ten is going to do the same. That is why Clemson and FSU wanting to leave the ACC makes zero sense. They can control the success in the ACC. No way they maintain any level of success in SEC or Big Ten. They become a middle of the road team. Clemson needed the ACC to build it national title teams. Arrogance can misguide the best of them.
Winning matters that attracts players as much as money. Always being average doesn’t attract players. Money will get you players but man you need a lot of them.
You are wrong my friend. We had a model and walked away from it 70 years ago. Yes that was 3 generations ago! But that model would still work at UK. Stoops has tried to follow it as best he can - the problem is Stoops is a student of the game - not the professor of the game! We had the professor once - we made some people who made some bad choices. Personalities got in the way back then - and maybe you are correct - maybe the two programs can not exist - but I refuse to believe that. Now is the time to make a coaching change for another guy who actually loves UK - a guy who many have said would crawl to UK if offerred the job! Would he? Will he? Well we will never know unless we make the move!
Go Big Blue!
Ole Miss has fewer resources than Kentucky. I'm not saying that UK will ever have the resources of Texas or Texas A&M (it is hard to compete with that much oil money and population), but if Ole Miss can make a college football playoff (TBD) then so can UK.
